Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
Please cap zoom at a lower level before PvP events smaller scale than sieges become common, and avoid creating a divide between your players just because one of them can't afford the latest powerful rig, especially in the times we live in where getting any graphics card is difficult and expensive.
What people also fail to realize, and this has been proven in countless games over the last 20 years, is that players are situationally unaware regardless of zoom range. Just zooming out doesn't mean you have the advantage. You have to have the ability to turn your camera because not every player is going to charge you from the front, you have to visually acquire the target and you have to NOT tunnel vision on what your current task is. How many people I have murdered because they were farming, not paying attention or couldn't see me is staggering. Zoom range isn't going to automatically help players stay alive.
@GrilledCheeseMojito avoid having a divide based on income? Seems like something that should be shouted from the mountaintops IRL about countries being rich while their people are poor. Not in a game. Might as well just make AoC a minecraft mod.
Sounds like the only person who has a problem with an opinion is you. I listen to every person's opinion and I allow it to connect with me and give it an opportunity to change my heart and mind and grow my perspective as a person. My perspectives have been shaped by the people who have taken the time to debate, discuss and share with me.
Great! Help me understand where I express that I have 'a problem with an opinion'.
Slaughtering masses of mobs is not the immersion of an RPG.
It is what's expected for a Hack N Slash. Sure.
That being said. Steven likes his camera zoomed out significantly, so...
Watch videos of his gameplay and see if that suits you.
Steven already said: MAX ZOOM!!!! ain't got time for no casuals trying to dictate how I should play my MMORPGs....
If you want to play it zoomed in just do it, leave the rest of us that care for competitive pvp and pve play how we want: with max zoom.
What does caring about pvp or being casual have to do with camera zoom? Having the zoom out restricted adds to pvp.
x2
Right so youve just said the answer and not made it there yourself. It makes many things viable specifically because you can't zoom out as if you have a drone following you. It adds to the gameplay.
K?
In a game with even limited action controls, you have to choose between accuracy and time on target versus awareness. To me having a wide camera zoom doesn't fit a risk vs reward model in games with even soft tab. You are getting awareness, accuracy and time on target for 'free'.
You say it makes you swivel your camera more? That's the point. But you don't see why it costs something at first glance because you come from a heavy tab target game where this mattered less and was not a cost just an annoyance.
I agree with you that a full tab game should have a wide camera. Ashes on the other hand will have a lot of reasons why accuracy cannot be assumed with tab due to it's action and template laying options. I would therefore argue that among many other reasons this is a core argument for why a narrower camera view is better design for a game like Ashes.
You can definitely make arguments for why this trade off hinders certain play styles, but it's probably better you make those arguments rather than trying to convince people with an action combat background that a wide camera is strictly about comfortable play.
A super quick look through a GW2 guide video shows that they have a fairly distant camera coupled with a somewhat close action one, so this has been done before and, from what I know, worked just fine, because people tend to say that GW2 has the best hybrid combat.
So I really don't see why Intrepid couldn't either allow for both or have a smooth transition from a far zoom to a closer one when you switch between modes. And it's gonna be on the player to adjust to such a system.
Proper in game settings can easily control zoom and other things. Here's what SWTOR has and you can lock how far you're able to zoom if you want.
You won't really be ambushing caravans when you need to get close to it first to get within it's specified area, then opt-in to participate in the caravan to begin with, and then choose to play the attacker role. By that point they know you're there.
Caravans aren't free PvP zones you can just gank as they run by - they're moving opt-in open world battlegrounds. You have to join in first.
How does it limit design variety in PvE? I don't see how this is at all relevant to PvE. If you are in PvE that requires that level of vigilance you require a party. If you have a party, communication resolves this. What it does do is make PvX a more tactical thing that requires vigilance. The constantly monitoring your surrounding at the cost of a little time on target or accuracy is a feature not a bug.
Here is a link for GW2 camera distance variation for those who don't want to look it up themselves and are unfamiliar.
The difference between where this camera starts at t=67 and where it ends is the difference I am talking about. The place where it starts I feel would work fairly well in Ashes. The distance where it ends is where I imagine most people who play tab target are 'comfortable'.
GW2 is a fairly PvP oriented game although it's recently gotten some good PvE additions. So you are correct in using it as an example of it being fine for PvP. GW2 lacks the level of PvX and the transition between PvE and PvX that Ashes will have. Ashes is a lot MORE about controlling a specific area and being able to be tactically routed or ambushed.
This fluid transition between PvE and PvP is why I don't think it's reasonable to go 'just make it optional or make action combats camera smaller.' That will just lead people to people flickering between targeting modes which I'd argue is way more of a user experience discomfort than swiveling your camera occasionally. I think consistency in camera angle is vital to keeping the two modes balanced.
It's not even just about being competitive, though. It's about what's comfortable. Zoom being in too close is just frankly irritating and unfun. It drives me nuts to look at a screen when everything is so close.
Also as a healer I'm used to being able to see more of the battlefield/more of the fight, what all my teammates are doing, etc. I'm sure tanks feel the same need and when you're zoomed in too close you feel like you can't do your job properly as a healer/tank.
And we have no real idea how exactly AoC's combat will be designed, cause we've barely seen any finalized combat and we sure as hell know nothing about the classes design. And even if Intrepid do go down a very particular design path, making the camera zoom optional now would just give them a wider spectrum of "where do we want all players to have their camera" later on, if they need it.
But it's not about options. Options will be always present. It's about 'what's the maximum allowed advantage in our combat design'.
And ok if that's your stance 'we don't know enough about this to make judgements' that is both factual and correct, but it's also where the conversation basically ends so good chatting with you I guess.
'Here are these principles relative to the big picture combat and this is why I think one mode would be theoretically better.'
'We don't know what all the parameters are for your theory to be validated as correct or not so let's not discuss it from that perspective.'
'Ok Nikr you right. Have a good day.'
I disagree I think type of combat is entirely irrelevant. TERA and Black Desert have arguably the two best action combat systems of any MMO out there (both at launch also were popular for their PvP ) - TERA for more traditional trinity gameplay, and Black Desert for that more combo/fighting style. Both allow very maxed out cameras with reticules placed high above the character's head, centrally located on screen (and IIRC both games allowed you to adjust it's location, or at least TERA did). It worked really well in both of those games. Just because a game has action combat elements, that doesn't mean it needs a terrible zoomed in (and often also low to the ground) camera. That just limits what you can see and makes aiming unnecessarily harder. It doesn't add anything positive to the experience.
Now if you want to try to make the argument that ESO, New World, Crowfall, etc. have better PvP and/or overall better action combat and gameplay experiences because the camera view is different, I'd love to see anyone attempt that argument. Because I can't think of any MMO's with good combat that has a more zoomed in camera view.
I would dare to say that majority of players thinks it feels better and more "immersive" being zoomed in closer to the character. The argument why having limited zoom out would be OK is that everyone will on equal footing as not anyone can zoom out way more than others and it would make the game more of a welcome challenge imo despite shotcalling etc will be harder, some see it as annoyance, some higher skillceiling.