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Do you think you are a part of the "Target Audience"? Why or Why not?
Vhaeyne
Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
I was going to ask this in the related thread, but I feel this question is specific enough to need a separate thread.
I'll start:
I think I am a part of the target audience. Here is why.
I value the emergent storytelling that comes from a persistent open world competitive environment as the apex of modern gaming. Games like Eve, Darkfall Online, Lineage 2, and Mortal Online have been among my favorite examples. Games where the world is not an instanced theme park, but a theater of war for real-world people to not have to role-play, but to actually be a part of a real war. To me, the drama and betrayal that comes from these environments is better than any book I can read or movie I can watch.
This is what Ashes is trying to do with the node and corruption systems. The node system turns the traditional MMORPG world into a living, breathing theater of war. No longer will zones, be static areas for developers to tell their stories, but instead they will be dynamic areas for players to live their stories.
What also appeals to me about Ashes is that, unlike the four games listed above. Ashes has what those games have, and the features of a modern MMORPG. Mounts, cosmetics, housing, and good graphics. I have always said that I love Sci-fi, but if there was a fantasy game that was like EVE with modern third-person combat. That would be the game for me. Ashes is not exactly that, but it is a close enough cousin to get me excited and accept some of the things I feel are flaws.
If you think I am not a part of the "Target Audience", based on anything I have just said. I invite you to tell me why as well.
I'll start:
I think I am a part of the target audience. Here is why.
I value the emergent storytelling that comes from a persistent open world competitive environment as the apex of modern gaming. Games like Eve, Darkfall Online, Lineage 2, and Mortal Online have been among my favorite examples. Games where the world is not an instanced theme park, but a theater of war for real-world people to not have to role-play, but to actually be a part of a real war. To me, the drama and betrayal that comes from these environments is better than any book I can read or movie I can watch.
This is what Ashes is trying to do with the node and corruption systems. The node system turns the traditional MMORPG world into a living, breathing theater of war. No longer will zones, be static areas for developers to tell their stories, but instead they will be dynamic areas for players to live their stories.
What also appeals to me about Ashes is that, unlike the four games listed above. Ashes has what those games have, and the features of a modern MMORPG. Mounts, cosmetics, housing, and good graphics. I have always said that I love Sci-fi, but if there was a fantasy game that was like EVE with modern third-person combat. That would be the game for me. Ashes is not exactly that, but it is a close enough cousin to get me excited and accept some of the things I feel are flaws.
If you think I am not a part of the "Target Audience", based on anything I have just said. I invite you to tell me why as well.
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
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I dont like p2w
I prefer the journey of progression rather than repetitive endgame activities (daylies, bgs, raids)
I like open world pvp
I dont like faction pvp
I dont like instanced content and loading screens
I dont like bind on pick up economies
I dont care much for addons, even though I was using them in eso (because eso had 0 UI)
I love the corruption system from my years in L2
Ashes is for me.
1. Without knowing what summoners design is going to be like relative to the combat system, it's really hard to say if I will get to enjoy the open world pvp. I love strategic combat. I love team combat, but god do pet classes usually suck in pvp. I originally had more faith Ashes would be the one to breal the curse but some of their design decisions relative to action combat are making me question that. If they go split body my hope for a good summon class will drop quite a bit.
2. They have said very little about farming. I am a farmer. I am a tavern owner. If the farming system sucks my ability to meaningfully participate in the economy drops considerably. I know what crafts I like to do in games. Farming is my jam. Ashes claims they will have one. But if it sucks I am less targeted as an audience.
Why I think I am probably in the intended target audience anyway:
I like risk. I'm a thrill seeker. I am comfortable with swings in fortune WHEN an emergent story forms from it and I had agency in taking that risk and my fate in the outcome. The emergent story telling is what attracts me most. The npc quest writing in alpha gives me hope tgat there will be a good blend of player and world creative interplay. Im tired of stale linear storytelling worlds. I like good story, but I want to be a part of it. Few mmos give me that feeling. The possibilities of Ashes emergent stories, culture, and politics excite me.
I crave a good economic system where travel and emergent regional trends matter. Every mmo I have played other than ffxi (which I arrived slightly too late to existence it's true peak) has a terrible stale meaningless economy. Ashes hits so many things I would do if I were making an mmo with a good economic system. Ashes claims it requires so much interconnectivity between crafts and players. I can't help but feel targeted. I'm risk tolerant enough that i'd be one of the brave crafters wilding out for rare stuff and Ashes will need people like me for the game to be great economically.
Team based combat is what I want out of an mmo most. I am tired of mmos with either too small a team size for my core team, or too few or inflexible roles. The 8 classes Ashes chose for it's archtypes make me really believe they mean it when they say they want a good teamwork oriented experience. I just need the 2nd archetypes to really deliver in flexibility in role and play style for certain team members and the combat system to not be ass for these three things to be a masterpiece for me. I really hope Jeffery's influence on the teamwork oriented design focus holds through.
Even if they end up missing me due to design mistakes or narrowing their scope I think the above are some pretty damn good reasons for thinking I am their target audience.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Yhr9WpjaDzw
Game play looks good and I only play a few games a year and am willing to invest in the few games I play. I won’t have time to no life when it comes out so if someone can decide to grief me over and over because they feel like ruining my day then I am not interested.
I honestly think you could be an asset to a guild if you go into the game with the expectations that you are a part of a group trying to accomplish something bigger than yourself.
Joining a guild as a gatherer and resource processor might be a good fit. You would enjoy social activity and a stage of crafting that is not as demanding. I think full-time gear crafters may have to no life the game to show guilds that they are worth investing in with recipes and resources. Refiners on the other hand may be more causal, with fewer expectations to be available all the time.
Being a part of a guild in this way may mean that you are not always the first pick for raids and skirmish groups, but you would surely get rich along the way if you put forth the effort.
The possibility of getting griefed over and over is always there, but in a guild it becomes a story of your guilds struggle against an outsider who is giving you trouble.
Does something like this sound like fun to you?
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
No Pay 2 Win? ✓
A lot of sandpark elements? ✓
Plenty of features and a variety of content? ✓
Risk vs Reward aspects? ✓
No obligatory Faction system? ✓
Naval content? ✓
The game will most likely have a lot of in-game drama? ✓
Focus on the community aspect of MMORPGs? ✓
Creator has a clear view of what the main points of his game are? ✓
Creator maintains contact, hear and deals with the community complaints? ✓
I believe i'm certainly, part of the "target audience".
Aren't we all sinners?
I saw phase two of wow classic, people were literally mind controlling people backwards to keep killing them over and over, well after they stopped giving a reward. People had to death run for 2+ hours sometimes just to do content. Now you add on they get to steal the stuff I spent my time gathering, while destroying the rest of it? No thanks.
So I will wait and see how they finalize the griefing system that will determine if I am their target audience or not.
Getting to steal people's stuff is a two-way street. Consider that in WOW there was no punishment for just attacking random people all day. In fact, the game encouraged it by just saying that if the other faction attacks you, that's part of the story...
In Ashes the deterrent for that play style is that to bully someone, you need gear to do so. Someone who wants to go on a ganking spree needs to risk a lot of valuable resources invested in their gear to behave this way. It might pay out in the form of good drops from ganked players, or might end in the bully losing it all to bounty hunters. There will be players that want to use their level difference as an advantage to gank low-level players, but there will also be bounty hunters looking for easy kills too.
I am not saying it's all sunshine and roses. You will get killed or chased off for stepping into a hunting grounds another guild is farming. That I can promise you. The difference is that you will be attacked for a calculated reason, not just the lols.
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
(x) a world that is designed to be explored and rewards cartographers
(x) open world pvp
(x) incentivized crafting economy
(x) dwarven rangers with freedom to *gasp* choose what weapons I want to use *faint*
(x) Freedom w/appropriate rewards for taking smart risks
(x) Player housing
(x) Animal breeding / husbandry (been waiting for this system for a long time)
(x) No modern MMO p2w bullshit
Ashes is going to be one of those MMOs.
Great topic choice, @Vhaeyne.
Welcome to the thread...
"Do you think you are a part of the "Target Audience"? Why or Why not?"
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
Themebox ✓
The rise and fall of player created cities ✓
Focus on meaningful PvP conflict ✓
No endgame ✓
No obligatory Faction system ✓
SJW representation for the races ✓
Any class can use any gear and weapons ✓
Innovative archetype/class system ✓
Hybrid combat ✓
Social Orgs/Religions ✓
Open world player housing ✓
Animal breeding / husbandry ✓
Compelling cosmetics and overall art aesthetics ✓
Focus on the community aspect of MMORPGs ✓
Creator has a clear view of what the main points of his game are ✓
Creator maintains contact, hear and deals with the community complaints ✓
Siege design ✓
I hate greedy companies replacing people making games like they would like to play.
I absolutely love world pvp. Caravans? Ships? Team bases? Very limited flying mount availability? That smells like some good world pvp potential there. The griefer in me is very excited.
I absolutely love large scale pvp especially if it involves team work and coordination. AoC seems to be doing an amazing job having large scale pvp with little to no lag and meaningful events and contributions.
The hybrid class system sounds awesome and so does the ability of each class to wield any weapon/use any armor.
Templar? Did anyone say I can play a templar? Yes sir, let's go.
A live and immersive economy.
No unhealthy focus on end game.
All these sound like they're going to make a healthy community, social game.
One of these is the chance to drop gear.
If you are not corrupt, you have no chance at all of dropping gear.
Unless the punishments are exclusively time gated then people will game the system to keep on ganking. If literally all it will takes is a second account to bounty hunt themselves to reduce their corruption then they will do it, wont even lose any loot in doing so.
Again, I have said I am happy to wait and see, and I am also okay with the game not including me in its target audience.
Yeah but world pvp and griefing is so fun
I wont deny I love looting players after killing them in pvp tho.
I think this is the case with a lot of people.
Almost everyone. I'm here.
I don't believe I'm part of the Target Audience of Ashes of Creation as it is currently shown.
I believe that the systems used for managing PvP and aggression are outside of the scope of my enjoyment, and that the design schema have the potential to be simplistic and restrictive relative to my preferences. I believe that the rewards will go to groups that have power through methods that I don't have any way to access, and it will rapidly degrade my enjoyment of the game.
I believe that the tendency to be able to keep one's 'hard' power, i.e. gear, wealth, levels, will completely dominate over people who focus on roleplaying and 'soft' power in most forms (social things, effort building up Nodes, effort following and learning 'story' things or making Alliances) because the player who puts work into those things gets what appears to be a 'group benefit' which by the nature of the game, is supposed to be easily destroyed for 'freshness' and 'rotation'.
I believe that players who do this in smaller groups will eventually be subjected to, or subsumed into, larger guilds whether they like it or not, and will still be 'underpowered' except in the cases where they somehow draw favor with the big guilds. The impermanence of 'results' from the time commitment to soft power probably shouldn't be changed, but I don't think it is likely that the degradation rate of powerful equipment could, or should, be set to anything approximating it.
I believe that in order for a game to be successful, a certain type of player cannot be allowed to translate over specific RL tendencies, skills, or resources, whereas another type does, and this type of game is therefore, in the long term, less enjoyable to them.
I don't believe that anyone whose success (defined as 'being able to continue doing the thing they enjoy doing, rather than spending 50% or more of their time doing something they don't actually want to do') is controlled by a large group of non-like minded individuals, is within the Target Audience. That's definitional, and perfectly fine. It might be hard to communicate to some, but so it is.
I don't believe I'm in the Target Audience for Ashes because I've seen other people talk about what they believe Ashes is, and what they want it to be, and I know that those people's wishes are backed up with data, indicators, and the Creative Director's design models, making it more likely that those things will shift in that direction.
People tell you who they are, and if you give them a place to freely be that, and a big enough 'tribe' of people who are okay with them being that, they'll do it, because at that point, there is no social pressure to not, only tribal pressure. And you defeat tribal pressure by changing tribe, or gaining enough power to kill the other tribe.
I don't believe I'm the Target Audience for Ashes in the long term because 20 years of watching MMOs has taught me that my tribe is too small or too unrewarded in games like Ashes, to have any chance of standing up to the other tribes, and therefore will be wiped out within a few months if the design follows the requests of the vocal players giving feedback now.
I intend to do absolutely nothing about this. It's a no box cost sub based game. If my tribe is wiped out, or fighting to defend it takes more time than my life grants me to play Ashes, I'll just leave.
You might choose not to play.
What other people want Ashes to be is not the same thing as who the devs are targeting.
But, sure, you might not believe you are in the target audience.
Whether you believe you will enjoy the game is different than whether you are the target audience.
Oh, I thought we were talking about what the development decisions were targeting, not the devs themselves.
The devs can target whatever and whoever they want. Their designs, though, have constraints. This isn't a 'one size fits all' pants (get it?).
So sure, they can 'want everyone to wear the pants', make it stretchy, put clips on the bottom of it to let you roll up the leg parts if they're too long, try to make the fabric both somehow super-breathable and also heat-retentive, and make all the excess space around the waist fit neatly into a pocket dimension for really skinny folk.
I'm not going to make some sarcastic closing point because I genuinely believe this is actually what you are saying and fully believe. That the Devs are marketing their Magic Pants to everyone.
Whether they actually meet the needs of all MMORPG fans is different.
For instance, the devs are targeting Action Combat fans... whether they implement Action Combat well enough for Action Combat fans to be willing to play is different.
The devs are targeting all RPG Dwarf fans...whether they implement Dwarves well enough to entice most of the Ashes players who love playing Dwarves to actually play Ashes Dwarves is different.
I like many aspects of what's been announced for the game, but also some that make me doubt a long time commitment.
Being more gameplay oriented than goal oriented I'll need to experience the playing itself, what you actually do when you log in. How different classes play. Fighting dynamics. Buttons pushing. Abilities interaction. Mob behaviours. The world of Verra itself.
Once that step is passed it will be a question of how much I can do, and what I can do, without being forced to group all the time. More than simple personal preference, the time of the day I can usually play is during non-peak hours, so I need a certain level of independence.
*raises hand* I'm not sure.
What's more likely, I'll like some aspects of the game a lot, and some other aspects will gonna make me annoyed. Like.. the most games do.
I think game going for this specific type of audience alone is not a good idea and won't work. Naturally, I hope many people of many interests will find something in the game they like. And the things they like and people they enjoy playing with will matter enough to outweight the things they don't.
Also, I think that's the best everyone can hope. A lot of high hopes imo are related to grass is greener type of thing in current state of affairs.
I don't believe I'm part of the target audience, yet I still backed alpha 1. I'm a solo player after countless years of failed mmo and other game groups. Kinda hoping my interests shift, as I truly love the ideals that AOC is.
One of the main philosophical pillars behind our design was that PvE must be impactful and inclusive. We want solo players, small groups and large groups to all have a home within our system. With monsters throughout the world, challenging raid bosses, new dungeons spawning as your world develops, and scalable challenges, we know that each player will have a complete PvE experience. Our Node system allows the constant generation of new PvE content such as questlines, monsters, dungeons and even raid bosses as well!
Solo players are part of the target audience, though, so why do you believe you're not?
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Yhr9WpjaDzw