Do you think you are a part of the "Target Audience"? Why or Why not?

I was going to ask this in the related thread, but I feel this question is specific enough to need a separate thread.

I'll start:

I think I am a part of the target audience. Here is why.

I value the emergent storytelling that comes from a persistent open world competitive environment as the apex of modern gaming. Games like Eve, Darkfall Online, Lineage 2, and Mortal Online have been among my favorite examples. Games where the world is not an instanced theme park, but a theater of war for real-world people to not have to role-play, but to actually be a part of a real war. To me, the drama and betrayal that comes from these environments is better than any book I can read or movie I can watch.

This is what Ashes is trying to do with the node and corruption systems. The node system turns the traditional MMORPG world into a living, breathing theater of war. No longer will zones, be static areas for developers to tell their stories, but instead they will be dynamic areas for players to live their stories.

What also appeals to me about Ashes is that, unlike the four games listed above. Ashes has what those games have, and the features of a modern MMORPG. Mounts, cosmetics, housing, and good graphics. I have always said that I love Sci-fi, but if there was a fantasy game that was like EVE with modern third-person combat. That would be the game for me. Ashes is not exactly that, but it is a close enough cousin to get me excited and accept some of the things I feel are flaws.

If you think I am not a part of the "Target Audience", based on anything I have just said. I invite you to tell me why as well.

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George_Black

I am.

I dont like p2w
I prefer the journey of progression rather than repetitive endgame activities (daylies, bgs, raids)
I like open world pvp
I dont like faction pvp
I dont like instanced content and loading screens
I dont like bind on pick up economies
I dont care much for addons, even though I was using them in eso (because eso had 0 UI)
I love the corruption system from my years in L2

Ashes is for me.

JustVine

Honestly I am kind of on the fence right now for two reasons.

1. Without knowing what summoners design is going to be like relative to the combat system, it's really hard to say if I will get to enjoy the open world pvp. I love strategic combat. I love team combat, but god do pet classes usually suck in pvp. I originally had more faith Ashes would be the one to breal the curse but some of their design decisions relative to action combat are making me question that. If they go split body my hope for a good summon class will drop quite a bit.

2. They have said very little about farming. I am a farmer. I am a tavern owner. If the farming system sucks my ability to meaningfully participate in the economy drops considerably. I know what crafts I like to do in games. Farming is my jam. Ashes claims they will have one. But if it sucks I am less targeted as an audience.

Why I think I am probably in the intended target audience anyway:

I like risk. I'm a thrill seeker. I am comfortable with swings in fortune WHEN an emergent story forms from it and I had agency in taking that risk and my fate in the outcome. The emergent story telling is what attracts me most. The npc quest writing in alpha gives me hope tgat there will be a good blend of player and world creative interplay. Im tired of stale linear storytelling worlds. I like good story, but I want to be a part of it. Few mmos give me that feeling. The possibilities of Ashes emergent stories, culture, and politics excite me.

I crave a good economic system where travel and emergent regional trends matter. Every mmo I have played other than ffxi (which I arrived slightly too late to existence it's true peak) has a terrible stale meaningless economy. Ashes hits so many things I would do if I were making an mmo with a good economic system. Ashes claims it requires so much interconnectivity between crafts and players. I can't help but feel targeted. I'm risk tolerant enough that i'd be one of the brave crafters wilding out for rare stuff and Ashes will need people like me for the game to be great economically.

Team based combat is what I want out of an mmo most. I am tired of mmos with either too small a team size for my core team, or too few or inflexible roles. The 8 classes Ashes chose for it's archtypes make me really believe they mean it when they say they want a good teamwork oriented experience. I just need the 2nd archetypes to really deliver in flexibility in role and play style for certain team members and the combat system to not be ass for these three things to be a masterpiece for me. I really hope Jeffery's influence on the teamwork oriented design focus holds through.

Even if they end up missing me due to design mistakes or narrowing their scope I think the above are some pretty damn good reasons for thinking I am their target audience.

Leth

Depending on how fun the crafting/gathering system is and how well they limit griefing will be the primary determinants of if I am the target audience or not.

Game play looks good and I only play a few games a year and am willing to invest in the few games I play. I won’t have time to no life when it comes out so if someone can decide to grief me over and over because they feel like ruining my day then I am not interested.

Vhaeyne

Leth wrote: »

Depending on how fun the crafting/gathering system is and how well they limit griefing will be the primary determinants of if I am the target audience or not.

Game play looks good and I only play a few games a year and am willing to invest in the few games I play. I won’t have time to no life when it comes out so if someone can decide to grief me over and over because they feel like ruining my day then I am not interested.

I honestly think you could be an asset to a guild if you go into the game with the expectations that you are a part of a group trying to accomplish something bigger than yourself.

Joining a guild as a gatherer and resource processor might be a good fit. You would enjoy social activity and a stage of crafting that is not as demanding. I think full-time gear crafters may have to no life the game to show guilds that they are worth investing in with recipes and resources. Refiners on the other hand may be more causal, with fewer expectations to be available all the time.

Being a part of a guild in this way may mean that you are not always the first pick for raids and skirmish groups, but you would surely get rich along the way if you put forth the effort.

The possibility of getting griefed over and over is always there, but in a guild it becomes a story of your guilds struggle against an outsider who is giving you trouble.

Does something like this sound like fun to you?

JamesSunderland

Open world PvP? ✓
No Pay 2 Win? ✓
A lot of sandpark elements? ✓
Plenty of features and a variety of content? ✓
Risk vs Reward aspects? ✓
No obligatory Faction system? ✓
Naval content? ✓
The game will most likely have a lot of in-game drama? ✓
Focus on the community aspect of MMORPGs? ✓
Creator has a clear view of what the main points of his game are? ✓
Creator maintains contact, hear and deals with the community complaints? ✓

I believe i'm certainly, part of the "target audience".

Leth

I am all for collaboration to get superior results, If PvP zones also had the best materials and it required grouping up to fight over those nodes? That sounds like a lot of fun to do every now and then. But if I can’t even do anything basic in the game without risking being ganked it just sounds like a waste of time. I hate the idea of being required to beg other people for help if I want to do any of the content,

I saw phase two of wow classic, people were literally mind controlling people backwards to keep killing them over and over, well after they stopped giving a reward. People had to death run for 2+ hours sometimes just to do content. Now you add on they get to steal the stuff I spent my time gathering, while destroying the rest of it? No thanks.

So I will wait and see how they finalize the griefing system that will determine if I am their target audience or not.

Vhaeyne

Leth wrote: »

I am all for collaboration to get superior results but I would rather get ganked over and over than have to beg other people for help so I can actually do basic stuff in a video game. If PvP zones also had the best materials and it required grouping up to fight over those nodes? That sounds like a lot of fun to do every now and then. But if I can’t even do anything basic in the game without risking being ganked it just sounds like a waste of time.

I saw phase two of wow classic, people were literally mind controlling people backwards to keep killing them over and over, well after they stopped giving a reward. People had to death run for 2+ hours sometimes just to do content. Now you add on they get to steal the stuff I spent my time gathering, while destroying the rest of it? No thanks.

Getting to steal people's stuff is a two-way street. Consider that in WOW there was no punishment for just attacking random people all day. In fact, the game encouraged it by just saying that if the other faction attacks you, that's part of the story...

In Ashes the deterrent for that play style is that to bully someone, you need gear to do so. Someone who wants to go on a ganking spree needs to risk a lot of valuable resources invested in their gear to behave this way. It might pay out in the form of good drops from ganked players, or might end in the bully losing it all to bounty hunters. There will be players that want to use their level difference as an advantage to gank low-level players, but there will also be bounty hunters looking for easy kills too.

I am not saying it's all sunshine and roses. You will get killed or chased off for stepping into a hunting grounds another guild is farming. That I can promise you. The difference is that you will be attacked for a calculated reason, not just the lols.

CROW3

Let's see...

(x) a world that is designed to be explored and rewards cartographers
(x) open world pvp
(x) incentivized crafting economy
(x) dwarven rangers with freedom to *gasp* choose what weapons I want to use *faint*
(x) Freedom w/appropriate rewards for taking smart risks
(x) Player housing
(x) Animal breeding / husbandry (been waiting for this system for a long time)
(x) No modern MMO p2w bullshit

Taleof2Cities

Only a few MMOs have been able to do both PvP and an immersive crafting system with specializations.

Ashes is going to be one of those MMOs.

Great topic choice, @Vhaeyne.

Dygz

Everyone in the forums believe they are a part of the target audience.

Vhaeyne

Dygz wrote: »

Everyone in the forums believe they are a part of the target audience.

Welcome to the thread...

"Do you think you are a part of the "Target Audience"? Why or Why not?"

Dygz

Bringing the RPG back to MMORPG ✓
Themebox ✓
The rise and fall of player created cities ✓
Focus on meaningful PvP conflict ✓
No endgame ✓
No obligatory Faction system ✓
SJW representation for the races ✓
Any class can use any gear and weapons ✓
Innovative archetype/class system ✓
Hybrid combat ✓
Social Orgs/Religions ✓
Open world player housing ✓
Animal breeding / husbandry ✓
Compelling cosmetics and overall art aesthetics ✓
Focus on the community aspect of MMORPGs ✓
Creator has a clear view of what the main points of his game are ✓
Creator maintains contact, hear and deals with the community complaints ✓
Siege design ✓

Ironhope

I hate p2w and cash shops in general.

I hate greedy companies replacing people making games like they would like to play.

I absolutely love world pvp. Caravans? Ships? Team bases? Very limited flying mount availability? That smells like some good world pvp potential there. The griefer in me is very excited.

I absolutely love large scale pvp especially if it involves team work and coordination. AoC seems to be doing an amazing job having large scale pvp with little to no lag and meaningful events and contributions.

The hybrid class system sounds awesome and so does the ability of each class to wield any weapon/use any armor.

Templar? Did anyone say I can play a templar? Yes sir, let's go.

A live and immersive economy.

No unhealthy focus on end game.

All these sound like they're going to make a healthy community, social game.

Ironhope

Vhaeyne wrote: »

Leth wrote: »

In Ashes the deterrent for that play style is that to bully someone, you need gear to do so. Someone who wants to go on a ganking spree needs to risk a lot of valuable resources invested in their gear to behave this way. It might pay out in the form of good drops from ganked players, or might end in the bully losing it all to bounty hunters. There will be players that want to use their level difference as an advantage to gank low-level players, but there will also be bounty hunters looking for easy kills too. .

Wait, does your gear drop too when you die?
Don't you only lose the resources (ore, stone, wood, for example) in your inventory when you die?

Noaani

Ironhope wrote: »

Wait, does your gear drop too when you die?
Don't you only lose the resources (ore, stone, wood, for example) in your inventory when you die?

If you die while corrupt, you gain additional penalties.

One of these is the chance to drop gear.

If you are not corrupt, you have no chance at all of dropping gear.

Sathrago

Ironhope wrote: »

Wait, does your gear drop too when you die?
Don't you only lose the resources (ore, stone, wood, for example) in your inventory when you die?

This should help you out if you have not seen it yet. https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Player_death

Ironhope

Sathrago wrote: »

Ironhope wrote: »

This should help you out if you have not seen it yet. https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Player_death

Thanks... and wow, thats pretty brutal (losing your main weapon or armor).
I'm all for hardcore world pvp but that might just be a step too far.

Dygz

Don't stack Corruption and you won't lose your weapon and gear.

Leth

Vhaeyne wrote: »

Leth wrote: »

I am all for collaboration to get superior results but I would rather get ganked over and over than have to beg other people for help so I can actually do basic stuff in a video game. If PvP zones also had the best materials and it required grouping up to fight over those nodes? That sounds like a lot of fun to do every now and then. But if I can’t even do anything basic in the game without risking being ganked it just sounds like a waste of time.

I saw phase two of wow classic, people were literally mind controlling people backwards to keep killing them over and over, well after they stopped giving a reward. People had to death run for 2+ hours sometimes just to do content. Now you add on they get to steal the stuff I spent my time gathering, while destroying the rest of it? No thanks.

Getting to steal people's stuff is a two-way street. Consider that in WOW there was no punishment for just attacking random people all day. In fact, the game encouraged it by just saying that if the other faction attacks you, that's part of the story...

In Ashes the deterrent for that play style is that to bully someone, you need gear to do so. Someone who wants to go on a ganking spree needs to risk a lot of valuable resources invested in their gear to behave this way. It might pay out in the form of good drops from ganked players, or might end in the bully losing it all to bounty hunters. There will be players that want to use their level difference as an advantage to gank low-level players, but there will also be bounty hunters looking for easy kills too.

I am not saying it's all sunshine and roses. You will get killed or chased off for stepping into a hunting grounds another guild is farming. That I can promise you. The difference is that you will be attacked for a calculated reason, not just the lols.

Unless the punishments are exclusively time gated then people will game the system to keep on ganking. If literally all it will takes is a second account to bounty hunt themselves to reduce their corruption then they will do it, wont even lose any loot in doing so.

Again, I have said I am happy to wait and see, and I am also okay with the game not including me in its target audience.

Ironhope

Dygz wrote: »

Don't stack Corruption and you won't lose your weapon and gear.

Yeah but world pvp and griefing is so fun

I wont deny I love looting players after killing them in pvp tho.
I think this is the case with a lot of people.

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