Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Alpha Two Realms are now unlocked for Phase II testing!
For our initial launch, testing will begin on Friday, December 20, 2024, at 10 AM Pacific and continue uninterrupted until Monday, January 6, 2025, at 10 AM Pacific. After January 6th, we’ll transition to a schedule of five-day-per-week access for the remainder of Phase II.
You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
Alpha Two Realms are now unlocked for Phase II testing!
For our initial launch, testing will begin on Friday, December 20, 2024, at 10 AM Pacific and continue uninterrupted until Monday, January 6, 2025, at 10 AM Pacific. After January 6th, we’ll transition to a schedule of five-day-per-week access for the remainder of Phase II.
You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
Comments
Should they be as relevant as the base class or not?
Should they still be very relevant?
Should their influence be 50% or 66% or 75%?
Because depending on the answer, we will either see pretty viable hybrids or not.
Personally I think the customization should be more important than the base class.
Off tanking is something people do when they don't trust their tank.
Adds tanking is something your tank should be able to take care of.
Less squishy DPS is the only actual reason.
A friend of mine plays/played enhancement Shaman over in WoW. Playing melee he is right in there with all the other melee. He keeps healing rain or something that is an AOE HOT centered on him. It does enough healing to show on the meter but but enough to keep the group up. I think it will end up in this area. Having anything/cleric and going heals will heal 3-5% of a players health. Enough to make a difference but not enough to keep a group alive by themselves.
8/8. You will need 8/8 to keep a group alive in harder content. Random PvP and questing will just keep the fight going long enough to win. Even if you allow to have all these things you want there will still be a meta. Someone will sit down with their friends and a spread sheet and look to find a way to get .001% better build and the mindless masses will follow with out ever thinking about it.
Most people the answer is yes because they are afraid to do their own thing and think for themselves:
47:57 is important.
2:01:00 talking about hybrid classes.
At one point Chris talks about going into a raid and he had changed all his enchantments to something that would offer no benefit to prove the point it was more about doing the mechanics then it was about chasing that extra .1% Over all a good conversation about game design.
And in 8 man party group play, if your tank is doing a good job you shouldn't need to be less squishy...
Sure, my Archwizard may die in a couple hits, but I bet those hits would be glorious!
It's not "base class" or "dual-class" for a reason.
Primary Archetype determines your primary role and Secondary Archetype allows you to have a lesser, secondary role.
Also, it's way easier to balance 8 Primary Archetypes than it is to balance 64 classes.
But... you can create lots of variations of a Primary Archetype with customization via Secondary Archetype augments, along with Racial, Social, Religious and Node augments and gear and Weapon Skills.
The point of having all the customization tools is for the total mixture to be a different experience than the initial glass of water.
The real argument is how different the mixture gets from other mixtures with the same starting ingredient.
I also mage tank. Good times.
RUN FOREST! RUN!!
WildStar for example I absolutely love that game despite it "being really difficult". It came out it was free to play in less than a year and closed down servers in three... (Still had one of my favorite tank classes ever I loved that engineer)
2:01:00
Also all good points. I hope you don't think that I've been advocating for a hybrid class or for classes to be able to multi-class at one time? More of what the druid became rather than what it was earlier on, where it can tank OR heal OR DPS... NOT do a little bit of all three at once.
You want other classes to fill the role of 'tank', other than the Tank class so that you're saved from repetitive 'party composition'...
And your solution is to have other classes fill the role of 'tank'...
Tank being a tank: BOOOOORING
Other being a tank: WOW THIS IS EXITING!!!1111
Waste. Of. Time.
Maybe not the game for you. Hugs and kisses.
Spot on.
An archwizard should get wrecked if he tries to tank. But I support a spellstone being capable if they do the augments for it right, and you properly geared for it, and you put your skill points into tank stuff vice DPS stuff...
Will this be the case? No one knows really...
As to the first point they devs have a vision let them fill it. To many people trying to paint the same painting that only have the vaguest idea why the final image should look like will make it a mess. Then listening to people that like art telling you to change your painting or they won't like it will also make it a giant mess.
I liked Wildstar a lot. Played at launch and was sad to see it go. One of the biggest detractors for me was how busy it was in the world. Move 10 meters "challenge accepted" eventually I just stopped paying attention to it.
Cool. Someone else who doesn't get it.
Read the whole thread before making snide comments. I have plenty of examples of what I mean.
Most MMOs that have some sort of longevity to them have more than one class capable of tanking this allows them to have more than one style of a tank.
Look at wow, FFXIV, SWTOR, etc.
A death knight plays different than a bear plays different than a brewmaster. And they bring different things to the table.
A gun blade is different than a warrior is different from the people that ninja tank in FFXIV.
Variety is good my dude. If you don't like any of those then just play a tank/tank. Some of us like playing weird shit, some of us like to play D&D just to come up with the weirdest approaches to a character and get them to work.
I enjoyed making them patch out my build in the GW 2 beta because I built a character that was literally unkillable... And I'm going to strive to do the same thing in aoc beta.
A tank/tank will play differently to a tank/rogue, or a tank/mage.
The difference is, one player can be any of them on the one character.
In WoW, you can be most things on oone character, but only one flavor of each thing. People then generally roll other characters to be different flavors of the same basic role. Someone that likes tanking as a role has maybe 8 alts for tanking in different styles.
In Ashes, you have one role but with multiple flavors per character.
You only need to make an alt if you want to perform a different role, as different flavors of that same role can all be done on one character.
This means you only need to roll an alt of you want to fill a different role - you have no need to roll one to perform the same role with a different flavor.
I've said this multiple times.
A tank level 24, no augment. Basic opener:
I'm going to onslaught to charge target
Shockwave for some aoe DMG and threat
Myrmidon strike to get the DMG reduction
Then lacerate a lot for the bleed n stuff...
I hit lvl 25 and choose mage for secondary
That rotation won't change.
I'm going to onslaught, but now it's a teleport.
Shockwave, but now there's some extra magey burn damage.
Etc etc...
I'm still going to use the same abilities, those mage augments aren't going to change the playstyle of the tank. Yes there are extra effects, and those can be very useful, but those changes won't change the way I'm playing the character.
Unless augments can do way more than any of their currently given examples. Which if that is the case, then x/tanks would probably be flexible enough to use as the tank role in a party.
Read what I said earlier on the difference between a rogue/tank and a tank/rogue. That's two different play style of tank. A tank/summoner and a summoner/tank, that's two different playstyles of tank.
We have tons of customization tools to have tons of variance in a Primary Archetype.
How different is not an argument - it's a question. We have several examples to examine in order to help answer that question.
Your Tank/Mage would be better vs Rogues and Rangers specifically than a Tank/Tank would be.
And you would likely choose to focus more on foes with Evasion than you would if you were a Tank/Tank.
Shockwave with an extra Magey burn means that you can partner with the Mage to stack Elemental damage instead of partnering with the Rogue to stack Bleeds if you're a Tank/Rogue.
Then, you say etc, etc as if there's just two options to make a difference in how played up through Level 24.
You have augments from 4 distinct Schools that you could choose to place on Onslaught.
A different player may choose to place different Mage augments on Onslaught - and they will play distinctly differently from you - even though they are using the same Active Skill.
Even if a different Tank/Mage stays with the Elemental School and adds a Frost augment to their Shockwave, that would add a Snare to the target...which could stack with a Rogue's or Ranger's Snare. So they might choose to partner and synergize with the Rogue and Ranger rather than synergizing with the Mage.
Or, they could choose to augment Shockwave with an augment from one of the other 3 Mage Schools - and that would, again, have a very different result.
Yes. You will still be using the same Active Skills.
How you augment your Active Skills will significantly change how you choose to deploy those Active Skills - especially in synergy with other people in your group.
No it wont.
Nor should it.
By level 50 though, it will be totally different.
If the player wants to main tank, they should choose Primary Archetype Tank.
A key part of Risk v Reward is that choices matter and have consequences.
If the Mage wants to dabble with tanking, they can choose Tank as their Secondary Archetype and have a secondary role as tank - which inherently means they will not be primarily tanking.
The Tank/x would still main tank the boss, but a Mage/Tank might indeed be great at off-tanking adds.
The Mage won't be able to main tank because they won't have Tank Active Skills.
Mage/Tank will be able to provide magical Damage Mitigation. But augments are not as powerful as Active Skills.
Active Skills are primary and augments are secondary - by comparison.
Who is saying slight adjustments?
Steven says "radical" and "fundamental" adjustments.
What does choose less DPS mean? And how are you measuring less DPS?
I think what you're asking is why not choose Mage/Mage to maximize DPS by adding Elemental augments to your Elemental Active Skills. But, some Mage/Mages might not choose to maximize their DPS anyways.
Again, Mage has 4 augments Schools to choose from. A Mage/Mage could choose to add Teleport augments to their Active Skills instead of Elemental augments. Or augments from one of the other 2 Schools.
It all depends on how the player wants to play their Mage.
Most likely, a Mage/Tank is going to want to be in the thick of melee instead of staying on the outskirts hoping to avoid damage. Most likely they don't want to be a glass cannon, and instead want to be able to soak damage.
As a Mage/Tank, I might, indeed, in PvE choose to focus on the Mage adds by Snaring them with a Frostbolt that has a Threat augment. Those Mages would be focused on me, rather than the Rogue or Ranger moving into position to attack them from behind. Again, my Frost Snare might also synergize with the Snares of the Rogue and Ranger. And augments from the Damage Mitigation School would allow me to soak the burst damage from those Mages.
It's not just about how I play as an individual - I'm a Rogue so I have to strive for maximum personal DPS.
Rather it's about how I synergize with the other members of my group - while I customize my character in a way that is not cookie-cutter.
Which is precisely why they aren't settling on subtle adjustments.
There is no harm, that is what a summoner is for. This works because summoners have no primary role - as far as we know.
With something like a cleric, ranger or mage though, it would mean they have two defined roles- and would be the only primary class that does.
The game is being balanced for any Tank/x to be viable. Balancing for any Tank/x and any x/Tank to be viable would be way too much work. Especially as that gets expanded to all of the possible class combos.
Secondary Archetype already allows a Primary to alter their role by moving it closer to the role of the Secondary Archetype. But, secondary is secondary; not primary. Secondary Archetype creates a sub-class; not a dual-class. And that makes it way easier for the devs to maintain balance.
But, there are tons of augments: Archetype, Racial, Social, Religious and Node, that allow players to significantly affect how they play the Primary Archetype. 2 "secondaries" is unecessary.
There are already tons of options.
Specifically didn't say any, I said 1 or 2 options.
Yes
So let me ask a different question. Why is it acceptable to have 4 clear distinct dps classes that play differently spec differently look different?
If I want to be an evasion tank. You all are telling me to play tank/rogue, but quite frankly, Rogue/Tank suits that role and mindset way better.
What kind of evasion tank wants to grind through a tanks early game vs a rogue one. Maybe there are some but I bet you their fun is lessened. You don't ask ranger to play the fighters early game, and they would at least actually be able to enjoy themselves because they still have access to a bow. The evasion tank has to wait 25 some odd levels maybe more just to get blind so they can dodge properly. Why is this acceptable?
How? You will only get skills from your primary archetype. So with out the threat management tools and damage mitigation tools that ONLY the Tank class will have. Again how? How will Rogue/Tank control the battlefield?
Way is is so bad that the game have rules?