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Dedicated RP servers

KesthelyKesthely Member
edited October 4 in General Discussion
Hello everyone,

As known so far we will get multiple servers with different prime time and locations. This is to optimize connectivity and ensure that many of the core system activities are happening in your prime time.

However next to this data there is a feature that i would love to have a few of the servers designated as. As you know, people have mixed feelings about RP in an mmo. Some love it, some hate it. And while rp should persist on every server, I think that it would be nice, if some servers get a RP server tag before you create a character. This will ensure that more like minded players will choose for those That server, and that people who do not like RP, will choose a different one. In the end i think this will improve the experiance for most people.

What do you think about this?
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Comments

  • I would advise joining a large (Discord) RP group that are based in your region (for the ping). I'm using the word "group" for "Discord Guild" so that I can distinguish between Discord Groups and Ashes of Creation Guilds.

    If I remember correctly, Discord Groups will be able to pre-arrange to join a server as one block so that all the players can play with their friends. Once those groups of players are all on the same server they may form guilds, social groups or play solo as they see fit.

    I don't know exactly how this would be managed, but I guess it will become a hot topic during Beta testing.
  • Problem with that is that not everyone will go to every servers discord first to check what kind of server it is. if say 10% has an Rp tag on it, the people would go to those servers that want to RP, without having to spend hours / days going trough discords etc. Rp servers feel different, not only because the obvious Rp that's happening, but even just in the general feeling of the world. In my opinion a world feels better if people use fantasy names instead of eg. L33t ma9e

    Most people want to install there game, pick a server and create their character and play. They don't want to install the game, spend hours researching the server before they get to play.
  • maouwmaouw Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Hey Kesthely,
    This topic has been brought up multiple times. Current stance is no server types/tags. They've even explicitly said "there won't be a seperate RP server" - because they're counting on the community to organize themselves (see here).

    Note that decision was decided in 2017 - so maybe they're open to changing that stance? Just remember the topic isn't new (see here, here, etc.)


    I can totally see where you're coming from, but your reason boils down to gatekeeping what other people name themselves, which isn't a strong reason. (As ugly a name as L33t ma9e is)
    Do you have any other reasons for tagged servers?

    There are also some reasons I can think of to avoid tagging servers:
    • population control - Ashes has population caps on each server and plans to never do server merges. This doesn't bode well for servers with specific tags.
    • general RP - by tagging some servers as RP, you imply that other servers are non-RP which will reduce all RP in other servers. Which leads to...
    • lack of diversity - I think the game is healthiest when each server has a mix of people wanting to do all sorts of things - RPers, Hardcore PvPers, PvE farmers, economy manipulators, master craftsmen - the game will be more interesting when your gameplay touches other people's playstyles. People get to meet the surface of the RP community - where they wouldn't be able to if they were isolated on their own server.
    I wish I were deep and tragic
  • Other reasons are primarily for player enjoyment. The game seems to support a lot of things that would enjoy and enrich an RPérs gameplay. Unfortunately there are always people that deliberately interrupt or harrass rp players.

    As for community gate keeping: There can be no gatekeeping if the rules for such behaviours is unclear. And while you can claim that "the entire server addresses to these specific rp rules" without something as simple as a tag people are not going to be held accountable for behavior that's detrimental to this.

    I'll give you two examples. A server has unofficially become THE RP SERVER, but a group of "hooligans" decides to start stirring up the server. They use server regulated rules to do this, by constantly emoting rp ers, keeping rp guilds in a continues war and ganking them, invading rp events and spam messages so that the rp messages become unreadable. While you know there directing this at you because of RP there is rule wise nothing that can be done. They follow the war rules and can attack the members freely then. You can't forbid players to be in an are, nor can you prevent them for talking. On a single occasion this is a mere nuisance, but long term you would see players leave.

    Second example but in reverse. You are not an adamant rp er. You enjoy the game, are happily leveling, crafting, and doing whatever other people do. But because you don't rp, the rp ers look at you in disdain, and start ostracizing you . You are excluded for groups, crafters are unwilling to sell you there goods or ask exorbitant prices. the player stops playing.

    A simple ta g would have fixed both issues. players and eventually gm's can gatekeep people in the first example. and in the second example the player would have chosen a non rp server.

    Also diversity will never be a problem. Both in the prp and non rp groups you have all the diverse people. Even on non rp servers there would still be rp. just not as much and not as frequent. And that might be even better. Because realistically rp ers are the minority. If gatekeeping is going to happen it will most likely be in favor of that minority. and is gatekeeping on all servers to appease a minority something that you would want in a game?
  • Kesthely wrote: »
    I'll give you two examples. A server has unofficially become THE RP SERVER, but a group of "hooligans" decides to start stirring up the server. They use server regulated rules to do this, by constantly emoting rp ers, keeping rp guilds in a continues war and ganking them, invading rp events and spam messages so that the rp messages become unreadable. While you know there directing this at you because of RP there is rule wise nothing that can be done. They follow the war rules and can attack the members freely then. You can't forbid players to be in an are, nor can you prevent them for talking. On a single occasion this is a mere nuisance, but long term you would see players leave.

    An entire server full or RP'ers, and a group of "hooligans". If the "hooligans" cause too much trouble, you get your server full of RP'ers to beat the crap out them. Every time they log in. For ever. They'll soon learn to leave you alone. And the problem is solved 'the Ashes way'.
  • An entire server full or RP'ers, and a group of "hooligans". If the "hooligans" cause too much trouble, you get your server full of RP'ers to beat the crap out them. Every time they log in. For ever. They'll soon learn to leave you alone. And the problem is solved 'the Ashes way'.

    But at the cost of how many players before the issue is resolved.
    Or worse
    But what if the group of hooligans is bigger then the normal player base?

    There are many additional features in this game that can cause players to quit (temporarily or permanent) If you move to much during a caravan, and you lose all that stuff or a majority of it, that could be a reason to quit, If your freehold gets plunderd after a node siege, that could be a reason to quit, If your guild falls appart that could be a reason to quit. But thats all GAME mechanics, and / or accepted social behavior. Getting harrased because you love or hate RP wich can be prevented by a verry easy "tag" next to a server should not be a reason .
  • Also as a side note, Do you rather see that GM's spend their time creating events, checking for botting, checking for RMT, or respond to harrasement calls that can be prevented?
  • Kesthely wrote: »
    But what if the group of hooligans is bigger then the normal player base?

    Then it's not the unofficial RP server.
  • ShadonSolShadonSol Moderator, Member, Alpha One
    Changed title to better fit the topic.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Alpha One
    The devs have said we will be able to determine which servers have like-minded players - without official server tags.
    So far, the plan appears to be for the devs not to enforce server types.
    RP servers would be totally unofficial.
  • George BlackGeorge Black Member, Intrepid Pack
    There wont be dedicated servers of any sort. The devs said so.
  • bloodprophetbloodprophet Member, Braver of Worlds, Alpha One
    As it should be
    Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
  • There wont be dedicated servers of any sort. The devs said so.

    Yes but that was quite a while ago, and times change. Look at Wow Classic, and New world. Wow Classic did have RP dedicated servers, and they where triving, The community there was a lot more relaxed, and akin to "the old MMO era" New world i've not even heared of anyone RPing there.

    And don't think "The ashes community is better than that, because those same players will play ashes. Classic wow has shown that people crave an old school mmo. New world shows that they crave a pvp orientated mmo as well. And those communities WILL play Ashes, the entry fee is to low for them not to try it.

    And i fear that due to Meta following, Rush and Endgame focused people that will make up for a majority of the players, rp is one of those things that will get snowed under.
  • George BlackGeorge Black Member, Intrepid Pack
    Kesthely wrote: »
    There wont be dedicated servers of any sort. The devs said so.

    Yes but that was quite a while ago, and times change. Look at Wow Classic, and New world. Wow Classic did have RP dedicated servers, and they where triving, The community there was a lot more relaxed, and akin to "the old MMO era" New world i've not even heared of anyone RPing there.

    And don't think "The ashes community is better than that, because those same players will play ashes. Classic wow has shown that people crave an old school mmo. New world shows that they crave a pvp orientated mmo as well. And those communities WILL play Ashes, the entry fee is to low for them not to try it.

    And i fear that due to Meta following, Rush and Endgame focused people that will make up for a majority of the players, rp is one of those things that will get snowed under.

    How are you going to have an rp or pve server when one node blocks out content and items from other nodes and you NEED that content and those items?

    What will you do? Put on a rp theatrical performance competition and the best gets to keep their node, while the losers pack up and move?

    Or will you have a pve contest choosing from the available content (because you know.. one node blocks the development of others...) and the fastest run gets to keep their node progression?

    Or should the develop separate world systems for RPers and PvErs?

    Not gonna happen, if IS is serious about making a live node based world.
    If the node system fails to deliver on the promise of a complex need of pvp, pve, progress, gathering, varavan, trading systems then sure, go rp and pve on separate servers.

    It's weird how that all you can do on ff14, eso and many more non pvp mmos, yet people want servers just for that on a PvX mmo.
  • ChimeChime Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    There's no reason to worry to have a RP server labeled because the RP community will designate one. It's been like that in every MMO that never had the official RP server stamp attached.

    Typically there is always one for NA- East, NA-West, EU, and Asia. The communities will pick one and then they all flood there and you will ALWAYS have grievers follow.

    The New World "RP" server is already locked and you can't create new characters because the queue is hours long (remind you, they have a 2k limit per server) and there are MUCH more than 2k RPers. There is already a 2nd "RP" server on top of the other timezones. Rpers will find away, and they are just as much into PvP and PvE.
  • VaknarVaknar Moderator, Member, Staff
    Very interesting! I hope that every server naturally has plenty of RP players, if I'm being honest. Thankfully there are already large Ashes of Creation RP communities that are being built up and recruiting. We will have to see what kind of impact those communities have as the game progresses in development. I find the idea of having an RP friendly tag on servers just making it so players know that that server might have more like-minded players very interesting, though!
  • Vaknar wrote: »
    I hope that every server naturally has plenty of RP players, if I'm being honest.

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  • How are you going to have an rp or pve server when one node blocks out content and items from other nodes and you NEED that content and those items?

    First of all i'm asking for an RP tag. The game is not designed to be able to have a pve tag. The server will stagnate really fast.
    What will you do? Put on a rp theatrical performance competition and the best gets to keep their node, while the losers pack up and move?

    Or will you have a pve contest choosing from the available content (because you know.. one node blocks the development of others...) and the fastest run gets to keep their node progression?

    Or should the develop separate world systems for RPers and PvErs?

    Not gonna happen, if IS is serious about making a live node based world.
    If the node system fails to deliver on the promise of a complex need of pvp, pve, progress, gathering, varavan, trading systems then sure, go rp and pve on separate servers.

    It's weird how that all you can do on ff14, eso and many more non pvp mmos, yet people want servers just for that on a PvX mmo.

    No the system will have exactly the same features and mechanics. But rp is hopefully more prevelant. This can result in server unique situations, where allies and enemies are formed due to Rp as well as node and guild systems. It can add another layer of depth that will be unique to that server. In wow classic i played on an RP-PvP server. In many cases it acted like a normal pvp server, but occasionly you had additional rp events that instigated fights that lasted for hours rallied trough rp, that had call to arms over the entire server. It was fun and unique, and due to the RP enforcement of the majority of the people on the server the server itself was a lot less toxic then most other pvp servers. But when problems arose the added rp tag did allow for gm intervention if it severly broke the added rp rules. Even with Blizzard notoriously bad and slow GM system.

  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Kesthely wrote: »

    No the system will have exactly the same features and mechanics ... But when problems arose the added rp tag did allow for gm intervention if it severly broke the added rp rules.
    These two statements seem to contradict each other.

    Either the servers are the same, or they are not.

    That said, Intrepid having to monitor/police player RP is the reason Intrepid do not want to have RP servers. Putting that tag on a server in a game like Ashes will see the server fill up with players that are there to kill RP'ers, not players that are there to RP.
  • Noaani wrote: »
    Kesthely wrote: »

    No the system will have exactly the same features and mechanics ... But when problems arose the added rp tag did allow for gm intervention if it severly broke the added rp rules.
    These two statements seem to contradict each other.

    Either the servers are the same, or they are not.

    They do not. contradict . The game will be exactly the same, except people with a similar mindset will choose for that server, and those who do not want to rp will not choose it. As for additional rules their don't have to be any. the communities on the rp server will make their own rules.
    Noaani wrote: »
    That said, Intrepid having to monitor/police player RP is the reason Intrepid do not want to have RP servers. Putting that tag on a server in a game like Ashes will see the server fill up with players that are there to kill RP'ers, not players that are there to RP.

    There will be players that specificly choose the server to kill rp ers. but isn't that an incentive to actually have the tag. If you want to hunt and kill rp ers, having an rp tag on a server gives you lots of targets, instead of having to scour all the servers to find one that meets your quota.

    Mind you i say hunt / kill, not harras. If a player or group starts harrasing someone or another group, it doesn't matter wich server they are on. Gm's would have to dedicate the same amount of time. And if you think that harasment is going to be bigger on an RP server its not, Players don't get harrased because of anything they control. Its the people that harrass thats at fault. Place those people on another server, and the'd still find targets and reasons to harrass people

  • What kind of harassment have you had for RP'ing? This isn't a snarky comment, by the way, I'm genuinely interested. I guess I've always been lucky and haven't really had any.
  • Kinda depends on what character i was playing though. on one of my characters it was spreading rumors / unable to participate in events and such but that one was a pretty highstrung character The harrasment part there was not the in character gossip but the ooc gossip. Most harrasements were people continuesly standing in your face and doing /fart all the time (it feels like harrasment after 10 mins or so) another time it was a person filling the entire chat limit (255 chars) with EEEE and constantly spamming that so everyting became unreadable.
  • Ok, not sure how having a dedicated RP server would have solved any of those, though. I'd suggest the chat spam one would be reportable.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Alpha One
    Vaknar wrote: »
    I find the idea of having an RP friendly tag on servers just making it so players know that that server might have more like-minded players very interesting, though!
    That's just a sign for griefing/disruption if the devs are not going to enforce/referee that tag.
  • KesthelyKesthely Member
    edited October 5
    daveywavey wrote: »
    Ok, not sure how having a dedicated RP server would have solved any of those, though. I'd suggest the chat spam one would be reportable.

    The community would resort that. If the server was a rp server, such behaviour would get noted not only by the people in question, but also onlookers. They would receive a bad reputation, and have trouble getting into guilds, etc. The rp tag is designated to find like minded people, nothing more nothing less. after that the gm interference would be minimal. and community expected behaviour would sort out harrasing players in most cases

  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Alpha One
    "Just move West," they said, "everything will be fine."
  • KesthelyKesthely Member
    edited October 5
    Dygz wrote: »
    Vaknar wrote: »
    I find the idea of having an RP friendly tag on servers just making it so players know that that server might have more like-minded players very interesting, though!
    That's just a sign for griefing/disruption if the devs are not going to enforce/referee that tag.

    Not nessisarily. What i'm hoping, no what i'm convinced that will happen, is that the community will sort out that behavior. If you are toxic, expect people to treat you as a toxic beeing. Ashes is not an instanced game where you can join a new party by the press of a button, get teleported there and revil in anonimity. people will know eachother, will like and dislike eachother, but they'll also respond to eachother when something gets reported. If a player misbehaves it will have long lasting effects for him on that server. Any server

  • Kesthely wrote: »
    daveywavey wrote: »
    Ok, not sure how having a dedicated RP server would have solved any of those, though. I'd suggest the chat spam one would be reportable.
    The community would resort that. If the server was a rp server, such behaviour would get noted not only by the people in question, but also onlookers. They would receive a bad reputation, and have trouble getting into guilds, etc.
    If the server wasn't an RP server, the behaviour would be noted, too. Nobody wants "EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE" all the way through their chat box. You don't need to be RP'ing to dislike that.

    Kesthely wrote: »
    The rp tag is designated to find like minded people, nothing more nothing less.
    As has been suggested already, I'd advise you to just go and find a good RP Guild. Chances are that you're not going to be RP'ing with the full 10,000 players on the server. You don't need them all to be RP'ers to enjoy yourself. If there's a player /farting in front of you for 10 minutes (and you've not decided to move away somewhere else, or to kill them yourself), then that's 10 minutes for your friends/guildies/allies/etc to come and blow them off the face of Verra. There are ways of dealing with things that don't involve trying to separate the community.
  • LethLeth Member
    edited October 5
    End of the day they have to decide how popular, and most importantly, how long they want the game to be popular.

    If your solution is "Your players will solve all the problems or figure it out themselves". Basically it is saying "You need to put in the homework to be able to enjoy our game". For larger scale appeal I dont see that being popular, but maybe that is not the target audience.

    It will be interesting to see how these hands off approaches work in the long term.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Alpha One
    Kesthely wrote: »
    Not necessarily. What i'm hoping, no what i'm convinced that will happen, is that the community will sort out that behavior. If you are toxic, expect people to treat you as a toxic being. Ashes is not an instanced game where you can join a new party by the press of a button, get teleported there and revel in anonymity. people will know each other, will like and dislike each other, but they'll also respond to each other when something gets reported. If a player misbehaves it will have long lasting effects for him on that server. Any server
    What you're hoping for and how gamers play are probably not the same thing.
    As the NW devs learned the hard way.
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