Dedicated RP servers

What kind of harassment have you had for RP'ing? This isn't a snarky comment, by the way, I'm genuinely interested. I guess I've always been lucky and haven't really had any.

Kinda depends on what character i was playing though. on one of my characters it was spreading rumors / unable to participate in events and such but that one was a pretty highstrung character The harrasment part there was not the in character gossip but the ooc gossip. Most harrasements were people continuesly standing in your face and doing /fart all the time (it feels like harrasment after 10 mins or so) another time it was a person filling the entire chat limit (255 chars) with EEEE and constantly spamming that so everyting became unreadable.

Ok, not sure how having a dedicated RP server would have solved any of those, though. I'd suggest the chat spam one would be reportable.

Vaknar wrote: »

I find the idea of having an RP friendly tag on servers just making it so players know that that server might have more like-minded players very interesting, though!

That's just a sign for griefing/disruption if the devs are not going to enforce/referee that tag.

daveywavey wrote: »

Ok, not sure how having a dedicated RP server would have solved any of those, though. I'd suggest the chat spam one would be reportable.

The community would resort that. If the server was a rp server, such behaviour would get noted not only by the people in question, but also onlookers. They would receive a bad reputation, and have trouble getting into guilds, etc. The rp tag is designated to find like minded people, nothing more nothing less. after that the gm interference would be minimal. and community expected behaviour would sort out harrasing players in most cases

"Just move West," they said, "everything will be fine."

Dygz wrote: »

Vaknar wrote: »

I find the idea of having an RP friendly tag on servers just making it so players know that that server might have more like-minded players very interesting, though!

That's just a sign for griefing/disruption if the devs are not going to enforce/referee that tag.

Not nessisarily. What i'm hoping, no what i'm convinced that will happen, is that the community will sort out that behavior. If you are toxic, expect people to treat you as a toxic beeing. Ashes is not an instanced game where you can join a new party by the press of a button, get teleported there and revil in anonimity. people will know eachother, will like and dislike eachother, but they'll also respond to eachother when something gets reported. If a player misbehaves it will have long lasting effects for him on that server. Any server

Kesthely wrote: »

daveywavey wrote: »

Ok, not sure how having a dedicated RP server would have solved any of those, though. I'd suggest the chat spam one would be reportable.

The community would resort that. If the server was a rp server, such behaviour would get noted not only by the people in question, but also onlookers. They would receive a bad reputation, and have trouble getting into guilds, etc.

If the server wasn't an RP server, the behaviour would be noted, too. Nobody wants "EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE" all the way through their chat box. You don't need to be RP'ing to dislike that.

Kesthely wrote: »

The rp tag is designated to find like minded people, nothing more nothing less.

As has been suggested already, I'd advise you to just go and find a good RP Guild. Chances are that you're not going to be RP'ing with the full 10,000 players on the server. You don't need them all to be RP'ers to enjoy yourself. If there's a player /farting in front of you for 10 minutes (and you've not decided to move away somewhere else, or to kill them yourself), then that's 10 minutes for your friends/guildies/allies/etc to come and blow them off the face of Verra. There are ways of dealing with things that don't involve trying to separate the community.

Leth

End of the day they have to decide how popular, and most importantly, how long they want the game to be popular.

If your solution is "Your players will solve all the problems or figure it out themselves". Basically it is saying "You need to put in the homework to be able to enjoy our game". For larger scale appeal I dont see that being popular, but maybe that is not the target audience.

It will be interesting to see how these hands off approaches work in the long term.

Kesthely wrote: »

Not necessarily. What i'm hoping, no what i'm convinced that will happen, is that the community will sort out that behavior. If you are toxic, expect people to treat you as a toxic being. Ashes is not an instanced game where you can join a new party by the press of a button, get teleported there and revel in anonymity. people will know each other, will like and dislike each other, but they'll also respond to each other when something gets reported. If a player misbehaves it will have long lasting effects for him on that server. Any server

What you're hoping for and how gamers play are probably not the same thing.
As the NW devs learned the hard way.

Dygz wrote: »

What you're hoping for and how gamers play are probably not the same thing.
As the NW devs learned the hard way.

This is true and thats why i'm basing my current recommendation on wow classic and New World experiances. I believe (see the replies above this one) that a tag for rp servers will ultimately be beneficial for the game

I think the WoW RP tag is actually enforced by the devs.
It's only been one week of NW RP servers and those are all full, AFAIK.

Well NW launched with to few servers all of the starting servers are to full. doesn't have anything to do with rp or not. Makes you wonder how AoC will launch. I get the idea that AoC will utilize the old GM system for servers, and that might make upscaling a bit difficult

Noaani

Kesthely wrote: »

They do not. contradict . The game will be exactly the same, except people with a similar mindset will choose for that server, and those who do not want to rp will not choose it. As for additional rules their don't have to be any. the communities on the rp server will make their own rules.

Either the servers are the same, in which case there are no RP specific rules - or they have RP specific rules and as such are not the same.

If you pick one and state that you want it, cool, we can have a conversation.

If you just jump between each of them at will/your convenience, obviously no worthwhile discussion can take place.

If Intrepid have RP servers and enforce a specific ruleset on them, then players on those servers would have every right to expect those rules be enforced. Now we need to determine what those rules are - is it all RP, all the time? Is it just no specific anti-RP activities? Then this needs to be squared with Intrepids desire for what essentially amounts to troll behavior in game - people can play the villain in Ashes, and Intrepid not only encourage it, but essentially require it. That villain need not only be a villain in terms of RP, but also in terms of the player behind the character. RP servers where rules are enforced would likely see this be lost, and may even see a total lack of players even willing to be the villain on RP servers for fear of report-positive people reporting them for behavior that Intrepid essentially require for the game to function.

Then you have the cost of enforcing these additional rules - which is not insignificant. In order for your suggestion to be based on specific rules, this cost needs to be accounted for in some way.

Or you could go with no specific rules for RP servers. if this is the case, what is the difference between this and a player initiative RP server? Don't say that an RP tag on a server will attract those wanting to RP and turn away those that don't - because it absolutely, 100% will not. If there were a designated RP server and no rules, my guild and I would happily roll there, as ruining some ERP party by slaughtering all participants just sounds like a whole bunch of fun.

So far, you have said you'd like a thing, and said that you would like it based on some things that happened in other games that are not even remotely comparable to Ashes (comparing WoW original release to an MMO releasing now is about the same as comparing a car from the 1930's to one made now - different technology, different pace, different purpose, different user mindset, different things will happen).

You haven't actually put forward a good argument as to why Intrepid should backtrack on what they have said, why the value of them doing that would outweigh the value of them sticking to their word.

Noaani wrote: »

Some Stuff

I think you are misguided of what most rp ers want. Namely emersion and interaction. It boils down to those two things. As for the rules that are "needed" for that? Personally it would be only 2 rules:
1) Use fantasy / lore appropiate character and guild names
2) Respect other peoples Rp

Names that would be fitting in the world of ashes. Eg. nobody is going to name their child "733t ma93" or "asgagaeg" or any other kind of just a bunch of random letters. Things like that break or add to the immersion.

Second you'd want people to be respectfull towards other rp ers. You want to create a guild that goes around and slaughter ERP ers? fine! do that, but have in your or your guild description some story why your doing that. You'll probably build notiatry for doing so, but its up on the individual if they like your actions or not. If you keep the ganking to a reasonable level (say betwen 5-10 times per encounter) It shouldn't be reportable. Although you'd probabaly build corruption quite fast. But that can lead to more rp moments for other groups that either start protecting "The slayer of indecency" or hunt the " Vile murderer"

You can choose who you affiliate yourself with (or create a guild yourself) and thus choose the rules. Some guilds will hard enforce RP all the time, some will not,

On an rp server preparations for guild wars would sometimes go differently while in other servers the alliances are forged out of game in comms like discord, on an rp server they might be forged in character in a specific location.

I've been rp ing in different games for a long time, but i notice the difference between games that have dedicated rp servers and those that don't. On those that do my immersion is higher due to "normal" names. People are generally more respectfull when you rp.

on servers that don't, you get your occasional whisper of "nerd", "geek", or worse. You get disrespected more, and with some names your immersion is less.

Noaani wrote: »

So far, you have said you'd like a thing, and said that you would like it based on some things that happened in other games that are not even remotely comparable to Ashes (comparing WoW original release to an MMO releasing now is about the same as comparing a car from the 1930's to one made now - different technology, different pace, different purpose, different user mindset, different things will happen).

This is not true, If you want to use a car analogy Then wow classic would be driving a 3 year old station wagon, New world a new Golf GTI, and Ashes a new racecar that comes out in (hopefully 2 years) Thing is that those drivers (and players) will trade in their cars for the hot new racecar. And the driver (or player) will still be as good as or bad as a driver (or player) as he is now.

Noaani

Kesthely wrote: »

Second you'd want people to be respectfull towards other rp ers. You want to create a guild that goes around and slaughter ERP ers? fine! do that, but have in your or your guild description some story why your doing that.

My story is that my guild is a secret society and that our motives for our actions are our own.

Or are you saying that my RP is less valid than your RP?

All those rules seem to be is a shelter from the games PvP system. If I want to kill you 20 times in a row, the game allows me to do that and gives me a penalty for it. There should not be some artificial system on top of that to prevent me from doing so, or risk losing my account.

If you want to call me a "vile murderer", have at it, you can do that on the regular servers as well. So far, the only actual change you have talked about is PvP protection for RP'ers.

You can choose who you affiliate yourself with (or create a guild yourself) and thus choose the rules. Some guilds will hard enforce RP all the time, some will not,

On an rp server preparations for guild wars would sometimes go differently while in other servers the alliances are forged out of game in comms like discord, on an rp server they might be forged in character in a specific location.

Nothing is stopping you from doing this in general on non-RP servers, nor forcing you to do this on RP servers.

Essentially, this is a pointless "point" to make.

On those that do my immersion is higher due to "normal" names. People are generally more respectfull when you rp.

on servers that don't, you get your occasional whisper of "nerd", "geek", or worse. You get disrespected more, and with some names your immersion is less.

When a name like X Æ A- 12 is a valid name in the real world, you need to come up with a damn good reason why such a name would cause you to be less immersed in a game.

As to your point about respect, in a PvP game, respect is earned. I knew a LOT of people that were heavily in to RP in Archeage, but because they could hold their own, they earned the respect of the server. They also managed to have some RP events that non-RP'ers took part in, due to the respect the server as a whole had for the guild. I took part in a funeral procession they had for a player that decided to leave the game, as an example.

There were also RP heavy guilds that people had no respect for, and they had a lot of their RP events "disrupted".

That said, there were also non-RP guilds that put on guild events that got disrupted as well, so this isn't an RP specific thing (I remember interrupting two guilds trying to do a round robin duel bracket - me and my guild ended up winning...).

Even in games with RP servers, I know of a lot of individual players that didn't get any respect from the server as a whole - RP or otherwise.

What I am saying here is that respect is earned.

Period.

You can't force people to respect you, and attempting to do that will literally always have the opposite effect. Trying to get an RP server started up where players are forced to respect RP is trying to force others to respect you, like it or not.

If you have that respect, players are not going to care if you want to spend your time RP'ing or not - and may even, on occasion, respectfully join in.

This is not true, If you want to use a car analogy Then wow classic would be driving a 3 year old station wagon, New world a new Golf GTI, and Ashes a new racecar that comes out in (hopefully 2 years) Thing is that those drivers (and players) will trade in their cars for the hot new racecar. And the driver (or player) will still be as good as or bad as a driver (or player) as he is now.

MMO's were, for all intents and purposes, started in 1996 with Merdian59.

The automobile age was introduced, for all intents and purposes, in 1886 with the Benz Patent-Motorwagen.

We are in 2021 now, I am fairly sure we agree on this point.

Some basic math would suggest that if we go back in time 66% of the way to the start of the automobile age, that would land is right about 1930.

If we go back in time 66% of the way to the first MMO in 1996, that would land us in about 2004 - the year WoW released.

So, since WoW is from two thirds of the way back in terms of the MMO genre, it is comparable to a car two thirds of the way back in the automobile age - which is, as I said, the 1930's.

In both cases, the target market for the product (1930's cars and original WoW) is vastly different.

Back when WoW was released, people were not used to the idea of a game with a persistent world. People were happy just living and breathing it. in the 1930's, most people were not used to having a car at all still, and the idea of having something that was faster than walking was just fantastic.

Now though, players are used to a persistent world, and are somewhat jaded (generally speaking) by all things Internet. A persistent world isn't going to keep people entertained - the first thing people will do when they start a new game is look for ways to piss off other players.

Same with cars. A car that just moves faster than walking isn't nearly enough now. People want good mileage on it, they want comfort, they want safety. These things were simply not a concern in the 1930's, and so comparing a car now to one back then is just not a good idea.

I've told you MY reasoning why i want an RP tag on some servers. I tried to explain to you that besides the rp tag to attacrt like minded players nothing will fundamentaly change or needs extra "carebearing" then on other servers. These are my reasons, and i don't have to further explain to you why i think so. It seems obvious that your either beeing deliberatly confrontational, or have a completly different view of this, and there is likely no way to let me see my point of view.

I want to note 2 things though.
1) i'm not talking about wow's original release, i'm talking about the classic rerelease of less then 3 years ago.
2) no matter what server you'll be playing the gm's will have guidelines for whats accepted behaviour. killing someone 5-10-20 or even 50 times in a row could be in that guidelines, it could not be. depending on the Gm's policies. I hope they never release those policies, cause i think that griefing is on an individual basis and should never be an arbitrary number.

If i was a gm i would investigate if a complained of say someone killing somene more then 10 times is specificly targeted at them. Eg if your murdering everyone in that area and he would respawn again and again and go back to that area, then its his choice, if you would single out that player and leave everyone else alone, i would contact you to target other players and let that specific player be on his marry way. If your counter argument would be a valid reason, i would go back to the original player and tell him what to do to avoid it. If you'd ignore me (as gm) then i would know an area of the server that would be out of the way and more suitable to pvp conflicts. Probably where you are neutral and teleport you there.
Note if your killing him 20 times because your guilds are at war, then i would immediatly tell the other player that your at war and this is allowed behaviour.

Personally though if it was me, i would fight you a few times, i don't think i'll ever be a non combatant, and if i can't defeat you on my own, id either accept defeat and wait till you go away before respawning, or call in friends to aid me in battle.

Noaani wrote: »

When a name like X Æ A- 12 is a valid name in the real world

That's even worse than Moon Unit Zappa.

Noaani

Kesthely wrote: »

I tried to explain to you that besides the rp tag to attacrt like minded players nothing will fundamentaly change or needs extra "carebearing" then on other servers.

I mean, you've said that a few times, but have also given examples of the extra work that Intrepid would need to put in.

Names that would be fitting in the world of ashes. Eg. nobody is going to name their child "733t ma93" or "asgagaeg" or any other kind of just a bunch of random letters. Things like that break or add to the immersion.

You want them to monitor character and guild names. This costs money.

If you keep the ganking to a reasonable level (say betwen 5-10 times per encounter) It shouldn't be reportable.

You want them to have a limit on how often a player can attack you. This fundamentally changes the game. I mean, on the regular servers, if I want to attack you 10, 50, or 100 times in a row, I am absolutely free to do so. The corruption system is your protection here, not reporting players.

So which is it? Do you want these things on an RP server? If you do, that means more work for Intrepid, and it means a fundamentally different game where players on RP servers have protections that players on other servers simply do not have.

Can you see why I am confused here? You keep saying you want them to be the same, but then keep giving solid examples of how they would not be the same.

So which is it? The servers being the same as other servers (which would mean neither of the two above being a thing), or the servers being different to regular servers?

It sounds to me like you just enjoy reporting people that are not conforming to your idea of enjoyment, honestly.