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Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest news on Alpha Two.
Check out general Announcements here to see the latest news on Ashes of Creation & Intrepid Studios.
To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
I do want to be able to “threat assess” targets/attackers while engaging in PvP, so there should still be a way to assess players visually.
I’ll be fine with it either way.
- Different section for skill and armor inspection
- Option to hide armor and skills perks, showing only the icons
- Free armor inspect when cosmetics are used
- (Ambitious) Suggestion of spells - When in guild, different interactions like an request of suggestion spells can be made. This will improve the interaction with new members and help the community in general, improving interaction.
My other thoughts the community have contributed already.
I like when I know about the armor and I see the person wearing it. If you'll have many sets this would be rewarding to who knows about the armors lookings and can get prepared for battle just by looking to your enemy.
Thanks for your hard work.
I wish you success!
In SWG I was a Two Handed Swordsman, I walked into the Cantina and I saw a dude kneeling in a corner. I immediately was attracted to the pose and wasn't sure how to perform the task. I had to message the dude and the dude explained Teras Kasi could meditate and the pose was meditation. I switched from Two Handed Swordsman to Teras Kasi and never regretted the switch until NGE happened.
In Age of Conan, we used to link our gear in Raid Chat/Group Chat or even Global Chat if you were in a dispute. Never had trust issues because people loved the purples. One dude asked me how to get purple items, I told him to kill NPC Guards - after three hours of killing NPC Guards the dude realised I had lied and the rage was hilarious.
Alternative option would be to just make it so you can only inspect people if they are in your party / guild or have some level of association.
I don't think it's realistic or good to forcefully allow for players' gear/stats/skills/etc inspection: if I don't wanna share my stats/gear/skill tree/whatever, I should have that privacy. If I wanna show off, I should be able to show off.
I think that having the option to allow/disallow player inspection is useful: instead of needing to print screen your settings so your friend (or the party leader) can check out your gear, you can simply turn it on and then turn it off. Believing there won't be some sort of "elitism" if there's no player inspection is just naïve: hate the players, not the game.
EDIT: After reading some ideas, I agree with the idea of only allowing players in your guild/party/request to inspect you or to be proximity based, as long as it's also toggleable.
TL;DR: Either have a toggleable inspection or don't have inspection at all. Not having any inspection at all isn't good, but it's better than forcing it on people who don't want to have their character inspected.
I like this idea. As you progress in this skill the more info you know about what items the player is wearing. At low level you know basic items (or basic stats) and at high level you can see legendary items (or enchantments and item effects.
Why not swap gear whenever you're not fighting if you're concerned about privacy?
Maybe it would be a slight hassle, but then Intrepid could add a QoL feature to swap outfits with a single hotkey, and a secondary gear inventory.
This way, tactical inspection is rewarded. For example, if you sneak around and inspect targets while they are fighting mobs or other players, at least you can get some kind of advantage on them. If gear is hideable, then tactical play like this isn't rewarded.
Make myself slightly more defenseless as a 'risk' for the 'reward' of telling you to stop leering at me? Where as I could just have a sensibly implemented inspect system that doesn't tell you the nitty gritty details and just the generalities? Nah. I'm good.
I have bought cosmetics for my social areas (Like nodes, castles etc) because I'm an RPer. If item load outs can be added then it will be a boon for RPers and non RPers alike. I don't dislike the idea of multiple load out options but I'd rather have a toggle for inspections than free for all inspections. A toggle means you have options and options make for a better experience. When everyone must use a predetermined set of items for specific classes like some MMOs, inspections are fine because you have BiS Lists behind set encounters and everyone aims for a similar or identical load out. In a game where you can build niche, build wide, build narrow or build cookie cutter then free for all inspection at all times becomes life or death.
I think it is important for gatherers, levellers and general moochers to have the ability to surprise a would be attacker. If you can inspect the gatherers, levellers and general moochers then there is no surprise, just the ganker having an advantage because the inspection has highlighted the fact a toon is weak. When the inspection shows the toon is strong the ganker would simply move on.
In A1 you could see the opponent's health. You could nuke down the weakest opponents and then focus the stronger opponents in terms of health. This made some classes very overpowered because you could select targets based on known parameters instead of unknown parameters. If you didn't have that health indication, you would have to risk assess the skills you are witnessing and select your targets based on the skills seen. If Ashes wants to continue with limited access to overall health I don't see why you would then allow free for all inspections. The game parameters were fine when it was shielded health and no inspections. If you allow free for all inspections without a toggle you have the strange situation of not being able to see the overall health but you could then simply inspect and glean even more information which would bypass the shielded health.
Edit: By overall health I meant the indications of health rather than the exact amounts of health, I obviously don't believe the health should be completely hidden.
Regarding hiding health bars... I haven't really played any games with no health bar and where the TtK is more than a couple seconds. Some fps do not have health bars, because you know that just one headshot or a few bodyshots is a kill. I've never seen, say, a MOBA without health bars though. Would it make you more unsure of whom to target? Yes, but I'm not sure that the actual gameplay experience would be better. Most times, whom to target would just be pure guessing based on generalizations of the classes that the enemies are playing. I'm pretty sure this would result in support classes being targeted almost all of the time by default, because you'd have no other information to go on.
Yeah, I understand the position. I can only go by experience right now (I understand the game is subject to change and I understand not all hard counters/classes were available in A1). If we take the sieges as an example the Cleric was able to take on multiple foes and kill multiple foes when BiS was equipped before the nerf. Clerics were buffed with more healing skills and less dps skills, and, more crucially the main damage skill was also nerfed because Clerics could survive multiple people and nuke down foes with ease prior to the nerf.
There was no real balance in A1 because the tests weren't based on balance or content. The issue remains that balance in the live game will not be balanced around 1vs1 or small vs small, but rather, group vs group or large vs large. If you gimp the heals for the Cleric so that a Cleric can be killed 1vs1 then the large vs large group play will be affected because everyone would be able to nuke the Cleric(Healer). If you make it so the Cleric can out heal a lot of focussed damage (Haven't seen Fighter Class yet which is slated as the healer killer) then large vs large will be more tactical and strategic.
The current information is quite messy, because, Steven said the skills in A1 were not representative of the classes so I've gone by the skills themselves, not necessarily the classes. However, the combination of skills on the cleric in a1 does indicate that you could out heal the focussed damage for a time, unless, silences, interrupts, mana drains or some other method of wearing a healer down are put in place. Most support players are used to focussed attention - the support class would not be an effective class if it didn't require focussed attention.
You could take a naked level 1 Cleric with level 1 skills and kill a Tank in Armour at one point - the death of the cleric only came when the cleric ran out of mana. Even the CCs could be countered because you'd drop an AoE and just be CC'd in the AoE (AoE heals like). The combat has so many spheres of opportunity and the combat can be a lot of fun. Risk/reward and hard counters are par for the course and it will be interesting to see how the classes work together or take out specific classes when all classes are available.
In most MMOs you can't kill a Healer in 1vs1 unless you want a long fight or you have healing reduction debuffs etc. Equally though, those healers aren't always capable of killing the opposition in a 1vs1 unless the fight is long and arduous. When the healer does damage and healing, the healer is a beast and could quite easily beat a lot of classes in 1vs1 when played well.
Personally, I like the idea of a gradient of information, and various factors contributing to more or less info being visible (or accurate). To me, that feels more D&D 3.5.
This is my suggestion if the team decides to implement a non-permissive inspection system.
I'm pretty sure it won't make gameplay better.
Any time a decision has ramifications, and information needed to make that decision is obfuscated, bad times will ensue.
This is just a fact of life, not of gaming.
If you give people the option to turn it off most will due to a desire for privacy but they wont have thought about what the consequences for having it turned off actually are. In my experience it promotes social behaviors and dynamics. Think back to games you've seen someone and thought, oh that's a neat piece of gear, or hmm that's an interesting spec, or oh hey i wonder what that cosmetic item is? Sure you could actually ask the player these questions, but most people wont. It's also an important way to show off your progress in the game.
For those that think having the ability to turn it off is good because then people can't judge you for grouping or a guild based on gear, is a good idea in theory but in practice it wont work out like that. If the game has content hard enough that gear becomes important people will just make you turn inspections on before inviting you and if you don't they'll just find someone else.
The people inspecting you to see if you're ez prey before engaging in pvp with you is a valid concern somewhat i think, but it does work both ways if there's someone nearby with a lot higher gear score then you.. maybe you just don't mess with him or the area they are in.
Lastly any experienced player wont need to see your gear in the world to decide how geared you are. They'll simply be able to judge it by how much damage your doing to mobs, how fast you kill them, and how much damage the mobs are doing to you.
At the very least it its able to be turned off, make it so that the people who have it turned off can't inspect anyone either with a cooldown to be able to inspect after they've turned it back on so they cant just quick toggle it. It feels sort of arbitrary if you set it up that way, and kind of third wall breaking, but I think it would better teach people the ramifications of what shutting it off does.
I do like the proximity suggestions though, there's no reason it needs to be able to be done from 30 yards away or anything. Also context based ability to do it, like not being able to do it in a war is fine. Or maybe you even only allow it in town/sanctuaries.
The problem is, this is not at all the case.
Someone could have the silhouette of a robe and staff, and actually be using top end plate armor, with a sword and shield equipped.
This situation is one where the other systems in the game (the cosmetic system, in this case) should impact the decision made here.
Almost all people against an inspect function are basing that opinion on the idea that you could see what gear a player has by looking at them, and in many cases referencing games where this is the case and saying that if it works there, it should work here as well.
However, since you can in no way tell what gear a player is wearing by looking at them - not even the type of item they are wearing - an inspect function of some sort should be put in to replace that.
It doesn't need to be a function where you can see every aspect of every item they are wearing, but there should be some inspect function to make up for not being able to readily identify items by looking at players. There are people that are arguing that they don't think you should be able to see every aspect of every item a player is wearing and so are against an inspect function, but these people seem to forget the the world is built on nuance, and the developers are able to add in what functionality they deem appropriate to an inspect function. If they want to make it so inspect only shows the base item and not enchants or enhancements made to it,, they are able to do that.
I don't often agree with @Noaani ... but the post above mine is correct on distinguishing gear type.
With as many cosmetics as Ashes is planning (both in-game and the cash shop), you can be sure that very few players are going to visually display the actual gear they have equipped. Which has worked fine in other MMOs ... such as ESO and BDO.
I do like the suggestion posted above about requiring a maximum distance for inspection. Any information beyond visuals (actual stats, enhancements etc.) should, if implemented, be on a request basis.
An option to turn of skins!
Peace.
Inspecting items: toggle option would be fine. It should be my responsibility to allow that. If I want to give my potential ganker info, my choice.
Inspecting skill? Reminds me of some PVP MUDs that had a "consider" command which leveled with you. It sometimes told you things like "He will massacre you in a blink.." but the actual enemy was a wet toilet paper...you just failed the skill roll. /That/ would be really cool, getting potentially wrong info (in either way) in PvP.
The fact that you can see absolute health/mana/energy whatever (read that in some post in this thread, since i am not in A1) is detrimental to all PVP. It should be a surprise if you jump a weak looking toon only to find out that you bit off more than you can chew. Even relative health is bad (but not very horrible). I would very much like to only see health bars in groups or as an ally.
A brief summary of what I put on reddit is allow inspections of gear but not a breakdown of the stats. Show what item is in what slot but don't show the stats attached to said item. If you know the base stats of a piece of gear you may be able to figure out a general estimate but with customized crafted gear, there's no way to know a breakdown of someone's build without them sharing. This would also let players see whether the cool looking full plate warrior is actually just using busted up armor while trying to look good.
Any argument about "it's important to know what gear people really have by looking at them" is already an irrelevant and gravitas-less point, given that the cosmetics from the Cash Shop will be *an* option to use for appearance, but not the *only* option.
I do not see how inspections will be useful in conflict. The only time they would possibly be useful is pre-raid formation. Any other uses are simply redundant in an active scenario. A toggle would be preferential because you can show your gear pre-group or pre-raid and then you can toggle it off again in the open world.
The game is a very competitive game from the outset, and, like real life, you should be able to conceal your gold watches and gold necklaces if you don't want to be robbed. It you walk around with all your bling on show, then you can expect to be robbed a lot more. Free for all inspections will increase the amount of ganks, when no inspection will give the defender the upper hand when a ganker faces a twink or a skilled player.
I don't think there should even be a message in game saying "XxxxX is inspecting you". Final fantasy XIV use to have this and it was creepy lol, but the option to inspect another players gear/stats should be avilable to all.