Dev Discussion #35 - Character Inspection

Krewe

What ever happened to experience, reputation and consequences?

I am against gear inspection for the following reasons.

Experience... In pvp people will quickly determine what classes give them problems. For ex, ranged vs melee, healer vs tank, etc. People should be able to access through casual observation if someone is a hard or soft target for them. Having gear inspection is almost the equivalent of an easy button. If you learn the game, learn that this skill roots at tier 3, then you know he must be over level 10... ok the next skill also stuns at tier 3 so he is over level 20, but he last skill did not knockback so he is under level 30... Experience in an mmo is the easiest way to asses threat level. Same in PVE... yes you can see the mob levels but you dont know upon first encounter if it uses AOE, ranged, KB, etc. So you can just treat me like a PVE mob and learn from experience after the first encounter.

Reputation... I have some mmo experience. If I go on a raid, its definitely not with a PUG. As the game progresses, people will earn a reputation of being an amazing healer or the best tank on the server. Not sure what I would gain from gear inspection anyway. If trust my guild/friends then the reputation of the members of the party would far exceed any guess I could make about their combination of play style and gear... and if its a PUG, eh, what do I care anyways... its PUG... I would be quicker to decline someone from a raid or difficult content due to the fact... I don't know you... Best gear in the game and you could still be a selfish player or a griefer or simply absent. I'd choose a B+ vet any day or a top geared random.

Consequence.. If I engage a mob lower level than me, do I instantly win? If I engage a lower level mob and it spawns 3 more mobs and I die, do I make a bug report? If you engage someone in PVP and you lose, thats the consequence. If I could see your cards in poker before I bet, I would be rich. You can engage a seemingly easy mob and die. You can engage a seemingly low level toon and die. Those are the consequence of your actions.

If people are creative and have outlier builds, they should be able to keep that private. FOTM builds are normally posted but not everyone chooses to share their builds. And if you have the experience to determine what gear and abilities someone is running through casual observation, then you dont need gear inspection either.

As some others have stated, I do believe it will lead to elitism in PVE and targeting/victimizing in PVP.

When they release a surveillance skill that gives you all the stats of the PVE mob you are engaging, along with their likes and dislikes, then I will support gear inspection... until then just treat me like a PVE mob.

daveywavey

Krewe wrote: »

If I could see your cards in poker before I bet, I would be rich.

Exactly! Ashes is supposed to be a return to classic gaming. I don't want my hand held, and I don't want the 'easy' button. I don't want dumbed down. "Risk vs Reward", not "Check before you attack, just in case they might beat you". This is what attracted many of us to the game in the first place, as pointed out by Neurath and unknownsystemerror. Don't lose sight of this, Intrepid!

Yuyukoyay

I'd very much like if Inspecting was limited in some fashion. So you can kinda tell what they are using, but not 100% able to gauge the power of their gear. Hell you could even make it a sub job in the game that the screen gets more accurate the higher the job is.

I'm just not really a fan of getting 100% of the equipment information and what all of someones stats are with absolutely no work. Could be something support classes can do to stand out even more. Could even hide things like enemy archetypes behind it and need support in PvP to tell what class people are to effectively counter them.

Ramirez

I mean, visual gear identification will be already Impossible because of the amount of people that will use skins, so i think inspection is needed, or atleast like albion online an way to hide all players skin

Percimes

Yuyukoyay wrote: »

I'd very much like if Inspecting was limited in some fashion. So you can kinda tell what they are using, but not 100% able to gauge the power of their gear. Hell you could even make it a sub job in the game that the screen gets more accurate the higher the job is.

I'm just not really a fan of getting 100% of the equipment information and what all of someones stats are with absolutely no work. Could be something support classes can do to stand out even more. Could even hide things like enemy archetypes behind it and need support in PvP to tell what class people are to effectively counter them.

I like the "part of a sub-job". I'd rather it be tied to already existing crafting professions, as in, a crafter can get more precise infos while looking at items from his profession. If it's part of your crafting profession you always have the basics, but for the details you must be able to craft it. A master can identified all items from his profession if given the chance to inspect.

Thulf

ArcheAge had the ability to toggle whether others could inspect your gear or not. Didn't see a problem with that. HOWEVER, now that such a mechanic was implemented into the game, and what gamer doesn't demand for more content always, what else was implemented along with the inspection of gear? For one, you could inspect the gear of the top 100 players of the server, essentially a competitive scoreboard. Another thing tied to that system was the broadcasting of players achieving near-impossible upgrades to the best gear in the game. Pretty sure you can come up with more... Killed off the game rather quickly because... swipu cardu or stop, get some help. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umDr0mPuyQc

There's no swiping a credit card in ashes, but one can still devote a buttload of time compared to most.

The moral of the story is, don't take it too far. It's nice to stand proud in town square with "allow inspection" toggled on, perhaps showing the famous dwarf's glorious name who crafted it, but that's about it. Anything more and I'd argue that it only benefits the hardcore competitive type of gamer probably competing for the top 100 spot but has the opposite effect for everybody else (your average Joe). Simple as that.

Evorith

For me I think it should be made into a skill that you have to learn and gain ability over time. To be able to sneak into someone else's gear should be learned. You are never going to get everyone to agree one way or the other. But a skill that allows you to peek would be cool. For PVE's showing ones high end gear off is a thing, But sure some PVP's want to hide everything they can. Have a toggle to start with but can be peeked into with skill that has a chance to over ride the off.

Luthienstorm

I like the toggle idea for guildmates only. Have always just be inspected I'd skew view stats with a -20 - +20 % variation and not put a name to any item. Do not reveal enchantments, except by some sort of spell. Mystery, discovery, and intrigue is a huge portion of a developing story. Let people write their story...don't tell them what the story is. Let the people decide what is...and what is not.

daveywavey

Evorith wrote: »

For me I think it should be made into a skill that you have to learn and gain ability over time.

A skill that flags you as a Combatant, and disables your skills for a few seconds...

Celtaidd Rwsiaidd

There is one old Russian game that was published in English and gained quite a lot of popularity in the world - "Space Rangers". There it was possible to scan the ships and see the equipment only if the shields / power of the hull of the person being scanned did not exceed the level of the scanning scanner. Hope this helps.

Celtaidd Rwsiaidd

P.S. We live in a dual world, and most of them think in categories: bad-good, fast-slow, etc. But Tibetan monks, for example, advise looking for the "golden mean". In other words, if thou, conditionally, have two options for solving the problem, look for the third - a compromise. Some people like one thing, others - another. And in order to smooth out a possible conflict between groups, and at least reduce the number of dissatisfied, the search for a compromise is simply a necessity in our difficult world.

Sapiverenus

Limited Inspection. In fact, limited nameplate and health bar. basic analysis should not get you very far in figuring out anything in the game.

One should not have any ## they can see except rough estimations at best, tens or hundreds but not single digits. Enemy health shouldn't be clear and only update every 6 - 24% varying on enemy and being somewhat random --> only changing the UI not giving a number; so it can't be clearly analyzed. Wounds may pop up but health bars and dmg numbers are a dumb fixation.

Being within certain Tiers of Range like under 5 yards away, 15 yards, 30 yards, 60 yards, and all else could provide varying levels of info. Over 60 yards, unless you have the Ranger perk, you'll see whether they're close to death or not close to death if you can see them at all. 15 yards away you may still only see that they're maybe at 50% health, maybe at 75% health. 5 yards away you still only get an indication they're maybe 70% health maybe 65% health or whatever in between or possibly they're 72% health.

As long as the programming doesn't tie anything together so what you see is random, and enemy health is variable between identical mobs, and there's arcane modifiers to Health information such as time of day, amount of camera movement, certain attributes, weekly Dev fiddling to counter-meta-game players, and unique modifiers each kind of mob has. . .. it'll be great.

Make information a game mechanic. When someone is inspecting you, an eye is at the top of the screen and the more they can see the more open the eye at the top is. An eye pops up over the person looking at you as well. If their eye is different you might be looked at by multiple people.

The closer you are to someone and better the character's eyesight/ Ranger perk the more info you can gain.

Rogues can hide their 'condition' and name to a high degree. Rangers can Inspect better. Clerics can see Health better. Mages can see mana and Intelligence attribute better. Fighters can inspect armor, strength attribute, and weapons well. Tanks can inspect armor, constitution & stamina & total health, and shield better. Summoner can tell if someone has been teleported recently and whatever fluff makes sense.

Names shouldn't even be automatic. Simply an indication you've seen someone before when you see their face directly and up close is enough. If they offer their name then you will have the nameplate pop up when you see their face --> amazin'!
Could make Faceshifting a real mechanic as well! Gives Rogues a real Identity and Meaningful Mechanics that don't step on Fighter! No one wants a Rogue wielding daggers to kill Stone Elementals. NO ONE.

With 'Inspect' there could be a heightened attention on individuals or everyone in your group (activated by Inspecting 1 person but still apply to the whole group, with more info on the individual. Wearing off in 7 seconds or something.)

That's my suggestion hope yall see the point of mechanics in a game.