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Cloaks!!! the original camouflage? What role should they play in Ashes of Creation????

Optics2134Optics2134 Member
edited January 10 in General Discussion
So I think this is a great topic to discuss and hope it finds its way to the devs. Since we now know that they are using unreal5 the new gear look and function will have so much potential. The question is should your gear only be about stats and fashion? or Is function something worth diving into?

AC Valhalla is the best example to date...

For one; running around as a hooded figure doing fun mmo things sounds great on the fashion side. I hope this makes it into the game regardless of the effects it does or does not have. Being able to hood or unhood much like ACV does SOO much for the emersion part of a game.
What about the idea that you could level up through a skill line or have an enchant or rune or orb "endless option of things" that would allow a player to hide their health bar and combat status from the rest of the world once applied "WHILE HOODED AND IN A NON COMBAT STATUS, obviously" by simply hooding or unhooding their character. This has endless potential and applications in open world game that is designed around raiding caravans, seiging castles and things of this nature.

The element of suprise is the OLDEST combat tactic in the book, but the game community restricts this to only rogue like characters. There aren't enough details that I have found in regard to the caravan system yet to really know if this would work out. But how AWESOME and tactically useful would it be to wear an earth tone or "camo" cloak, like Frodo stay crouched and hooded so you look like foliage or a rock. A way so your health bar doesn't give you away from a1000 yards away. Unhood flag for pvp and raid the caravan with a bunch of your guildies, like some robin hood stuff "not the men in tights version".

There are lots of applications for this. IE: lvl 1000 beast mode pvper could cloak themselves while not marked for combat. Everyone knows when they see that player in top tear gear and they know not to mess with them, and it affects the tension in an area, It would be nice to have the option to disguise yourself just a little with as much focus is going to be on PVP. Not like a vanish or the rogues predator mode, more of a you don't need to know what I have under my robes unless I want you to. Wink wink..

What does every one think
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Comments

  • pyrealpyreal Member, Warrior of Old
    I think it would be a kindness on your part to give us paragraphs. ;)
  • AOCHypeAOCHype Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    I like this idea, but only if the gear takes slots where alternatives could have provided more tangible benefits to damage/armor etc.
  • pyreal wrote: »
    I think it would be a kindness on your part to give us paragraphs. ;)
    lol yea half asleep wanted to get the idea out ill edit it later
  • tautautautau Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Frodo, not Froto.

    But I see some merit in the idea.
  • AOCHypeAOCHype Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    tautau wrote: »
    Frodo, not Froto.

    But I see some merit in the idea.

    Here I thought we were here for froyo. Boy did I come to the wrong party
  • I think it would work out best as a skill line or a passive ability myself.
    That way you're not constantly having to reset stats on a piece of gear.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Optics2134 wrote: »
    Being able to hood or unhood much like ACV does SOO much for the emersion part of a game.

    Going to assume you mean immersion, not emersion here. Similar words, but with near opposite meaning. English is fun like that.

    That said, I don't get how a cloak could provide immersion to this level.

    If you are not immersed in a world, the sudden addition of cloaks won't change that. If you are immersed in a world, the removal of them won't change that either.

    I understand some people like cloaks, and that's fine if you fall in to this category, I just don't get the hype.

    The thing you are doing would be the same with or without the cloak. Surely, you either enjoy the thing or don't enjoy the thing.
  • Noaani wrote: »
    Optics2134 wrote: »
    Being able to hood or unhood much like ACV does SOO much for the emersion part of a game.

    Going to assume you mean immersion, not emersion here. Similar words, but with near opposite meaning. English is fun like that.

    That said, I don't get how a cloak could provide immersion to this level.

    If you are not immersed in a world, the sudden addition of cloaks won't change that. If you are immersed in a world, the removal of them won't change that either.

    I understand some people like cloaks, and that's fine if you fall in to this category, I just don't get the hype.

    The thing you are doing would be the same with or without the cloak. Surely, you either enjoy the thing or don't enjoy the thing.

    How many fantasy movies and games have you watched in your life where the mood of the scene is set by characters wearing hoods or unhooding themselves.

    BTW Not writing a fucking college essay hear it was a thought that came to me and I tried to get it out while it was fresh in my head so chill with the high school grammar shit. K thanks
  • CROW3CROW3 Member
    edited January 10
    Yep. Exactly what I was getting at with the camouflage topic. I dig it.

    Dibs on @Noaani’s cloak.
    AoC+Dwarf+750v3.png
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    edited January 10
    Optics2134 wrote: »

    BTW Not writing a fucking college essay hear it was a thought that came to me and I tried to get it out while it was fresh in my head so chill with the high school grammar shit. K thanks
    Going to assume this is directed to me pointing out that emersion and immersion are not the same word.

    All I did was give you an opportunity to learn something. If you don't like that, that's a you problem.

    Also, at least where I am from, this would be a middle school thing, not a collage thing. Similar to words like immigration vs emigration, the im prefix (which is the same as the in prefix, only im is used for words that sound as if they begin with the letter p, b, or m, or ir before words that begin with r).

    So, the base word here is emersion, which is the process of emerging (such as from water). As such, adding the in prefix to it, which is changed to im due to emersion sounding as if it starts with the letter m, forms the opposite of the base word. Since that base word is emersion, and we are adding im to it, that makes the new word immersion, which means the opposite of the process of emerging, which is to completely cover something (generally in a substance, but in this case in a fictional world).

    This whole thing took me back to when I was 11, honestly.

    Once again, if you chose to look at the above as anything other than a learning opportunity (or, re-learning opportunity, perhaps), then that is on you. All I am doing is giving you that opportunity.
    How many fantasy movies and games have you watched in your life where the mood of the scene is set by characters wearing hoods or unhooding themselves.
    Very few where the cloak was material to the feel of the scene.

    The only time a cloak has been material to anything was when it was used to conceal the identity of a character - something cloaks in Ashes are unlikely to do.
    CROW3 wrote: »

    Dibs on Noaani’s cloak.
    Sold.
  • BoanergeseBoanergese Member
    edited January 10
    It doesn't really make sense in hiding your hit points or what level your character is. It really would make more sense if your character was wanted as a criminal for your to be able blend into a crowd and not be grabbed by the cities guards by wearing a hooded cloak to hide your identity. It seems more like an Assassin's Creed sort of situation more than an Ashes of Creation idea.

    It would actually be funny if the developers made an item in the game that rogues could get called Noaani's cloak as an item in the game based on the forum posts. Even if it was simply a cosmetic item used while sitting in taverns or was a quest item for a specific quest for the thief's guild.
  • tautautautau Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I like the idea of having 'Noaani's Cloak' in the game, but I do not think it should be only a cosmetic item.

    -If worn by a tank, it would increase the hate generated towards the enemy, causing the enemy to irrationally attack.
    -If worn by a cleric or a mage, it would cause enemy mages and clerics to lose 2 INT and attack irrationally.
    -If worn by an archer or rogue, it was cause enemy archers and rogues decrease their aim by 1, causing their arrows to fly off mark.
    -It would double the sight range of the wearer, allowing them to see far more than the average player.
    -The wearer would receive a +1 to HIT, causing all attacks to be more effective.

    (All intended as compliments, fyi those not wearing the cloak)
  • OmniceyeOmniceye Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    I think this would be a good idea. Just from a recent example. New World for all its flaws, has a fun PvP system. Crouching and going Prone hides your name unless the enemy hovers over you with their curser. This system in itself is brilliant and so much fun to use. It doesn't make you invisible and adds an entire element to the game that wasn't there before. This could be used in many ways, including stealth style pvp quests or hell even add to the general RP immersion for those who enjoy it.

    Having the cloaks take up an equipment slot or something would be a good idea for balancing purposes. especially if you can move while wearing it. I don't think it should hide any specific character information that someone can get from selecting you as a target that is already implemented. but hiding the name above your head can do so much for a game given the opportunities.


  • Omniceya, understands what I am trying to say with the "seeing an enemy player from miles away due to health bars". Hiding your health bar is a big deal in pvp... those of you who don't know this most likely aren't pvpers.

    I know with the time I played ESO, moving large groups of people in to battle position takes time, slower mounts people chasing squirrels and so on. The idea of being able to hide your group from the enemy while staging is a MUST in large scale pvp. I don't like the idea of every player being able to go invisible like in eso. However, being able to go to prone or crouch with a cloak or something should be part of the game.

    Before ESOs servers went to shit. It had some of the most epic back and forth battles in any game I have ever played. Solid groups of players coordinating their ultimate skills in order to "push" into the opposing factions pile and gain control of choke points or keep entrances. Being able to effectively pre group before launching an attack on a keep or caravan is a MUST have tactical game style. Every player having the ability to "stealth out" just makes sense.

    My point was. If AoC wants to break the mold and innovate. Having different colors of cloaks to help players blend in or go Camo while hiding their health bars just makes sense. Option to hood or unhood just makes it cooler and more thought out.

    I do not want AoC pvp to feel like Alterac valley from vanilla wow where it is purely a war of attrition one big blob of players with no real group combat mechanics, other than the group with the best healers wins. I mean honestly the footage from alpha that's what they have right now. It's alpha testing so it is whatever. I just hope they look at those types of things that other games do right. For example, In ESO Destro/negate/Talons/permafrost ultimate dump= Get popped bitches. Things like that require coordinated, thought-out, well-timed orchestration to work. That style of play is what rewards players that play often together.

    To the dude stuck on the grammar trip send me your game tag at drop so I make sure you get the bags bro :)
  • Boanergese wrote: »
    It doesn't really make sense in hiding your hit points or what level your character is. It really would make more sense if your character was wanted as a criminal for your to be able blend into a crowd and not be grabbed by the cities guards by wearing a hooded cloak to hide your identity. It seems more like an Assassin's Creed sort of situation more than an Ashes of Creation idea.

    It would actually be funny if the developers made an item in the game that rogues could get called Noaani's cloak as an item in the game based on the forum posts. Even if it was simply a cosmetic item used while sitting in taverns or was a quest item for a specific quest for the thief's guild.

    It does though.... I know in competitive pvp teams scout the lowest hp player before the real battle ever begins and that person dies first every time. Being able to hide hp bar and lvl from the enemy gives lower gear players more of a chance to not get gang banged in the first 5 secs of a conflict. It's harder to identify players in battle for things like this. But knowing Noanni is low geared and a support class.... before the battle starts. You bet your ass the one-shot mage build is going to unload on them before they care about anything else just to get their combo flowing and the numbers advantage in a fight... Pre battle cloaking while not in combat mitigates this in many ways. It forces teams to go into fights not having a kill order in place. Other than look the healers and leave the tank alone.
  • You can't necessarily time perfectly you know the damage or understand even the health of the player. Unless you were in their party you cannot see an opponent's health as well so that's another component that you know adds risk.[19] – Steven Sharif

    this gives me hope found it on wiki
  • AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    AOCHype wrote: »
    tautau wrote: »
    Frodo, not Froto.

    But I see some merit in the idea.

    Here I thought we were here for froyo. Boy did I come to the wrong party

     
    Hhak63P.png
  • CROW3CROW3 Member
    In BRD the end boss dropped ‘The Emperor’s Cloak’ which had no model. That would be a great model for ‘Noaani’s cloak.’ 😂
    AoC+Dwarf+750v3.png
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    CROW3 wrote: »
    In BRD the end boss dropped ‘The Emperor’s Cloak’ which had no model. That would be a great model for ‘Noaani’s cloak.’ 😂

    I'd wear that.
  • BoanergeseBoanergese Member
    edited January 11
    Optics2134 wrote: »
    Boanergese wrote: »
    It doesn't really make sense in hiding your hit points or what level your character is. It really would make more sense if your character was wanted as a criminal for your to be able blend into a crowd and not be grabbed by the cities guards by wearing a hooded cloak to hide your identity. It seems more like an Assassin's Creed sort of situation more than an Ashes of Creation idea.

    It would actually be funny if the developers made an item in the game that rogues could get called Noaani's cloak as an item in the game based on the forum posts. Even if it was simply a cosmetic item used while sitting in taverns or was a quest item for a specific quest for the thief's guild.

    It does though.... I know in competitive pvp teams scout the lowest hp player before the real battle ever begins and that person dies first every time. Being able to hide hp bar and lvl from the enemy gives lower gear players more of a chance to not get gang banged in the first 5 secs of a conflict. It's harder to identify players in battle for things like this. But knowing Noanni is low geared and a support class.... before the battle starts. You bet your ass the one-shot mage build is going to unload on them before they care about anything else just to get their combo flowing and the numbers advantage in a fight... Pre battle cloaking while not in combat mitigates this in many ways. It forces teams to go into fights not having a kill order in place. Other than look the healers and leave the tank alone.

    There is no one shot mage build. This is not World of Warcraft. Everyone knows in a 10 v 10 pvp you always target the healers first if you're competent. That has nothing to do with hit points. Your opponents will be able to tell either by seeing you heal or based on your class who the healers are and who they want to pressure. Don't suck at PVP and you won't die right away. I believe Steven mentioned that they are going to look at stun locks and limit a player from being chain stunned. They want fights to last more than three global cooldowns.

    What you are arguing is that you want to be able to hide behind a bush and then ambush your opponent without your nameplate showing where you are crouching. 250 versus 250 players is not going to matter about your nameplate. It's going to be about stopping their siege weapons and have commando squads who are mobile who can get to the threat quickly and neutralize it.

    It's the same with caravans. You are going to have a stealthed rogue watching the caravan feeding the bandits information and the raiders are going to rush in on land mounts to start combat. Either you are going to be better skilled than your opponent or you're going to have superior numbers and plan your ambush properly. If you ask people who played Vanilla WOW a lot of them like the 5-hour battles in Alterac Valley. Dying and rushing back to battle made the battles for meaningful including fighting for objectives. The modern way of doing the fight where everyone rushes to the last room and sees who can kill the enemy commander faster is boring and stupid.
  • tautau wrote: »
    I like the idea of having 'Noaani's Cloak' in the game, but I do not think it should be only a cosmetic item.

    -If worn by a tank, it would increase the hate generated towards the enemy, causing the enemy to irrationally attack.

    Noaani's Cloak increases hate generated! Hahahahahaha :D:D:D
    Daveywavey-member.png
  • Boanergese wrote: »
    Optics2134 wrote: »
    Boanergese wrote: »
    It doesn't really make sense in hiding your hit points or what level your character is. It really would make more sense if your character was wanted as a criminal for your to be able blend into a crowd and not be grabbed by the cities guards by wearing a hooded cloak to hide your identity. It seems more like an Assassin's Creed sort of situation more than an Ashes of Creation idea.

    It would actually be funny if the developers made an item in the game that rogues could get called Noaani's cloak as an item in the game based on the forum posts. Even if it was simply a cosmetic item used while sitting in taverns or was a quest item for a specific quest for the thief's guild.

    It does though.... I know in competitive pvp teams scout the lowest hp player before the real battle ever begins and that person dies first every time. Being able to hide hp bar and lvl from the enemy gives lower gear players more of a chance to not get gang banged in the first 5 secs of a conflict. It's harder to identify players in battle for things like this. But knowing Noanni is low geared and a support class.... before the battle starts. You bet your ass the one-shot mage build is going to unload on them before they care about anything else just to get their combo flowing and the numbers advantage in a fight... Pre battle cloaking while not in combat mitigates this in many ways. It forces teams to go into fights not having a kill order in place. Other than look the healers and leave the tank alone.

    There is no one shot mage build. This is not World of Warcraft. Everyone knows in a 10 v 10 pvp you always target the healers first if you're competent. That has nothing to do with hit points. Your opponents will be able to tell either by seeing you heal or based on your class who the healers are and who they want to pressure. Don't suck at PVP and you won't die right away. I believe Steven mentioned that they are going to look at stun locks and limit a player from being chain stunned. They want fights to last more than three global cooldowns.

    What you are arguing is that you want to be able to hide behind a bush and then ambush your opponent without your nameplate showing where you are crouching. 250 versus 250 players is not going to matter about your nameplate. It's going to be about stopping their siege weapons and have commando squads who are mobile who can get to the threat quickly and neutralize it.

    It's the same with caravans. You are going to have a stealthed rogue watching the caravan feeding the bandits information and the raiders are going to rush in on land mounts to start combat. Either you are going to be better skilled than your opponent or you're going to have superior numbers and plan your ambush properly. If you ask people who played Vanilla WOW a lot of them like the 5-hour battles in Alterac Valley. Dying and rushing back to battle made the battles for meaningful including fighting for objectives. The modern way of doing the fight where everyone rushes to the last room and sees who can kill the enemy commander faster is boring and stupid.

    How do can you even say there is no one shot mage build the damn skills list isn't even out yet...

    You are missing the point and arguing just to argue. I am good on all that.
  • CROW3CROW3 Member
    There won't be a consistent POM-pyro-like one-shot mage build, because IS has explicitly stated they want TTK at or around 30 seconds. There may be exceptions with an extremely geared lvl 50 1-shotting a naked lvl 25. But that's not going to be a thing in a large, planned battle, such as a siege.
    AoC+Dwarf+750v3.png
  • daveywaveydaveywavey Member
    edited January 12
    Optics2134 wrote: »
    How do can you even say there is no one shot mage build the damn skills list isn't even out yet...

    "Time to kill

    The Ashes of Creation MMORPG will have a time-to-kill (TTK) of around 30 seconds to a minute.[184]
    ...
    The developers do not want one-shots in the final MMORPG.[186]

    In the MMORPG we really don't want to see any one-shots. The time-to-kill needs to be strategic and tactical.[186] – Steven Sharif
    "
    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/PvP#Time_to_kill


    These are the skills we know about so far:
    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Mage#Skills.2Fabilities
    Daveywavey-member.png
  • Optics2134 wrote: »
    Boanergese wrote: »
    Optics2134 wrote: »
    Boanergese wrote: »
    It doesn't really make sense in hiding your hit points or what level your character is. It really would make more sense if your character was wanted as a criminal for your to be able blend into a crowd and not be grabbed by the cities guards by wearing a hooded cloak to hide your identity. It seems more like an Assassin's Creed sort of situation more than an Ashes of Creation idea.

    It would actually be funny if the developers made an item in the game that rogues could get called Noaani's cloak as an item in the game based on the forum posts. Even if it was simply a cosmetic item used while sitting in taverns or was a quest item for a specific quest for the thief's guild.

    It does though.... I know in competitive pvp teams scout the lowest hp player before the real battle ever begins and that person dies first every time. Being able to hide hp bar and lvl from the enemy gives lower gear players more of a chance to not get gang banged in the first 5 secs of a conflict. It's harder to identify players in battle for things like this. But knowing Noanni is low geared and a support class.... before the battle starts. You bet your ass the one-shot mage build is going to unload on them before they care about anything else just to get their combo flowing and the numbers advantage in a fight... Pre battle cloaking while not in combat mitigates this in many ways. It forces teams to go into fights not having a kill order in place. Other than look the healers and leave the tank alone.

    There is no one shot mage build. This is not World of Warcraft. Everyone knows in a 10 v 10 pvp you always target the healers first if you're competent. That has nothing to do with hit points. Your opponents will be able to tell either by seeing you heal or based on your class who the healers are and who they want to pressure. Don't suck at PVP and you won't die right away. I believe Steven mentioned that they are going to look at stun locks and limit a player from being chain stunned. They want fights to last more than three global cooldowns.

    What you are arguing is that you want to be able to hide behind a bush and then ambush your opponent without your nameplate showing where you are crouching. 250 versus 250 players is not going to matter about your nameplate. It's going to be about stopping their siege weapons and have commando squads who are mobile who can get to the threat quickly and neutralize it.

    It's the same with caravans. You are going to have a stealthed rogue watching the caravan feeding the bandits information and the raiders are going to rush in on land mounts to start combat. Either you are going to be better skilled than your opponent or you're going to have superior numbers and plan your ambush properly. If you ask people who played Vanilla WOW a lot of them like the 5-hour battles in Alterac Valley. Dying and rushing back to battle made the battles for meaningful including fighting for objectives. The modern way of doing the fight where everyone rushes to the last room and sees who can kill the enemy commander faster is boring and stupid.

    How do can you even say there is no one shot mage build the damn skills list isn't even out yet...

    You are missing the point and arguing just to argue. I am good on all that.

    @Optics2134 Because I have read the Ashes Wiki, the Ashes 101 website, watched every Youtube video about the game [Thanks Narc]], and every video from the developers in order to educate myself on the game and catch up, since I just recently joined the community. Thank you @daveywavey for your excellent summary about the time to kill and the combat philosophy of the developers. They want PVP to be about skill, not I hit my button faster or I am using the flavor the of the month build. They also mentioned PVP wasn't going to be balanced based on 1 v 1. They care about the 40 v 40 or the 500 v 500. Whether a rogue is better than a mage who both lose to a cleric doesn't matter to them. I am an attorney. I argue based on logic. I don't argue just to argue.

    Go to https://ashesofcreation.wiki/ and https://www.ashes101.com/ and read up.
  • AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Boanergese wrote: »
    I am an attorney. I argue based on logic. I don't argue just to argue.

    I’m sure you’ll have many opportunities on this board to say, “Objection! That’s pure speculation.”
     
    Hhak63P.png
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Boanergese wrote: »
    I argue based on logic. I don't argue just to argue.

    I do both of these.

    I will never argue from a position that isn't logical, but I will sometimes argue just to argue - as long as it is from a logical position.
  • Atama wrote: »
    Boanergese wrote: »
    I am an attorney. I argue based on logic. I don't argue just to argue.

    I’m sure you’ll have many opportunities on this board to say, “Objection! That’s pure speculation.”

    Objection! That in itself is pure speculation!

    Do I get the job, Boanergese?
    Daveywavey-member.png
  • Noaani wrote: »
    Boanergese wrote: »
    I argue based on logic. I don't argue just to argue.

    I do both of these.

    I will never argue from a position that isn't logical, but I will sometimes argue just to argue - as long as it is from a logical position.

    giphy.gif
    Daveywavey-member.png
  • BoanergeseBoanergese Member
    edited January 13
    Atama wrote: »
    Boanergese wrote: »
    I am an attorney. I argue based on logic. I don't argue just to argue.

    I’m sure you’ll have many opportunities on this board to say, “Objection! That’s pure speculation.”

    I am sure until the game comes out there will be plenty of speculation, conjecture, wishful thinking, begging, pleads, ultimatums, holding one's breath, complaining, along with plenty of TV and Movie references.

    7817115_so.jpg
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