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A mount sink proposal

124

Comments

  • daveywaveydaveywavey Member, Alpha Two
    Azherae wrote: »
    if leaving mounts outside of dungeons is a thing one has any good reason to do.

    You'd just put it in your Horse Pocket, surely?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvEe3Y3B2cg
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/


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  • maouwmaouw Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I joined BDO a year or two late and I can vouch for the Mount Saturation problem.

    I hit level 15 (out of 50 (60?) at the time?), and it was easy to buy a tier 5 mount coz there were too many better ones and T5 became the noob tier.
    I wish I were deep and tragic
  • VoidwalkersVoidwalkers Member
    edited February 2022
    Speaking of the "mounts destroyed as caravan component" case ...

    Has it been said before what happens to the components of a caravan that has safely reached its destination?
    Do we just disassemble a caravan and retrieve its components, may be with some durability loss?
    Would we be able to revert a "mount caravan component" into a simple mount?
  • daveywaveydaveywavey Member, Alpha Two
    Speaking of the "mounts destroyed as caravan component" case ...

    Has it been said before what happens to the components of a caravan that has safely reached its destination?
    Do we just disassemble a caravan and retrieve its components, may be with some durability loss?
    Would we be able to revert a "mount caravan component" into a simple mount?

    I would imagine that they're classed as part of the "Cost" of creating it, and will be lost.
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/


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  • VoidwalkersVoidwalkers Member
    edited February 2022
    daveywavey wrote: »
    Speaking of the "mounts destroyed as caravan component" case ...

    Has it been said before what happens to the components of a caravan that has safely reached its destination?
    Do we just disassemble a caravan and retrieve its components, may be with some durability loss?
    Would we be able to revert a "mount caravan component" into a simple mount?

    I would imagine that they're classed as part of the "Cost" of creating it, and will be lost.

    If that's the case then that's one good mount sink, considering the number of caravans ppl will need to send around in Ashes.

    Depends on how much bonus do mount-components provide to a caravan (and therefore how often do ppl sacrifice mounts for components) though.
  • NerrorNerror Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited February 2022
    daveywavey wrote: »
    Speaking of the "mounts destroyed as caravan component" case ...

    Has it been said before what happens to the components of a caravan that has safely reached its destination?
    Do we just disassemble a caravan and retrieve its components, may be with some durability loss?
    Would we be able to revert a "mount caravan component" into a simple mount?

    I would imagine that they're classed as part of the "Cost" of creating it, and will be lost.

    I know you are talking about in the case of caravan destruction here, but I don't think caravans are one use items in that sense. At least not the personal ones. The mayoral ones might be, and those could be mount sinks for all we know, unless the mounts are magically spawned with those caravans.

    Personal caravans can be spawned near the origin of whatever needs to be transported. I think the player has to specify a particular destination too at this point. I don't think it's just up to the player to determine the drop off point on the fly. The player then becomes part of the caravan and can freely go any route they wish towards that destination. On their way to the destination, if the player disconnects or logs off, the caravan persists in the world. They can transition between land and water, taking a few minutes to do so.

    We don't have a soundbite or a text that tells us what happens upon arrival, but considering it's a whole artisan skill to make caravans, with many different components of varying qualities and stats, it makes no sense to me if personal caravans are one shot and done deals. I don't think they are completely gone if they are destroyed either. Just like ships, they can probably be salvaged and repaired, maybe even including the mounts. My guess is the caravans can be disassembled at the predetermined destination after unloading. And only there. And put in the inventory like mounts.

    Edit: As for retrieving the mounts from the caravan mount module, I have no idea. I would like to think we can change out components of the caravan to upgrade it.
  • daveywaveydaveywavey Member, Alpha Two
    edited February 2022
    Sounds like a good question for the next Q&A!
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/


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  • Mount saturation is definitely a huge potential issue. I will say animal husbandry includes much more than just mount breeding, but for this discussion anyway I was thinking.. castle owners have to get taxes from nearby nodes weekly. Could they not “upgrade” those caravans with their own mounts to improve the caravan?

    There’s always butchering any mounts that don’t/won’t sell whole 😅
  • AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited February 2022
    daveywavey wrote: »
    Speaking of the "mounts destroyed as caravan component" case ...

    Has it been said before what happens to the components of a caravan that has safely reached its destination?
    Do we just disassemble a caravan and retrieve its components, may be with some durability loss?
    Would we be able to revert a "mount caravan component" into a simple mount?

    I would imagine that they're classed as part of the "Cost" of creating it, and will be lost.

    After the stress of being in a caravan that flaming bull was never the same. We had to put it down.

    How is your spicy hamburger by the way? Oh no, we didn’t add any peppers.
     
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  • I suppose you could keep the mount market from being too saturated with a combinations of "glue factory" solutions and mechanics that limit breeding. If the only thing needed to breed two Uberhorses is to just tell them to fuck and then you have a new adult horse in a month or two, the market is going to saturate quickly even with high tier mounts.

    If you need high tier materials to breed and raise high tier animals then that should atleast keep things on the same level as gear, which mount rez / debuff cures wouldnt do on their own.

    Letting breeders neuter animals can give them more control over their lineages , and provides interesting situations for breeders who have just bred a new species/colours/stats etc (Do you sell breeding animals at a premium, or only neutered animals to maintain exclusive breeding rights?)
  • NerrorNerror Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Yeah I would like to be able to neuter for sure.
  • AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Nerror wrote: »
    Yeah I would like to be able to neuter for sure.

    Absolutely!

    (This is just for animal husbandry, right? Not PvP?)
     
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  • GeronimoGeronimo Member, Alpha Two
    Atama wrote: »
    (This is just for animal husbandry, right? Not PvP?)

    Both actually, see this post for PVP version
  • AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Geronimo wrote: »
    Atama wrote: »
    (This is just for animal husbandry, right? Not PvP?)

    Both actually, see this post for PVP version

    The most-feared PvP combatants will be knife-wielding Nikua.
     
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  • Chillmaw wrote: »
    Letting breeders neuter animals can give them more control over their lineages , and provides interesting situations for breeders who have just bred a new species/colours/stats etc (Do you sell breeding animals at a premium, or only neutered animals to maintain exclusive breeding rights?)

    That's actually a brilliant idea.

    It remember "patents" was a suggestion in other crafting & recipe-discovery threads as a way to reward creative & invested crafters who came up with interesting recipes. Neutered mounts vs breeding mounts could be that for animal-husbandry. Actually it works even better than patents.
  • maouwmaouw Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Chillmaw wrote: »
    Letting breeders neuter animals can give them more control over their lineages , and provides interesting situations for breeders who have just bred a new species/colours/stats etc (Do you sell breeding animals at a premium, or only neutered animals to maintain exclusive breeding rights?)

    Oh this is great!
    This also parallels real life where neutering helps with behaviour management of pets.
    Similarly, It would be great if there was a performance advantage to neutered livestock - so that customers would WANT their mounts neutered.

    Stuff like this means the game needs less "glue factories".
    I wish I were deep and tragic
  • NerrorNerror Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    maouw wrote: »

    Similarly, It would be great if there was a performance advantage to neutered livestock - so that customers would WANT their mounts neutered.

    I didn't even think of that! Good idea.

  • daveywaveydaveywavey Member, Alpha Two
    WTS 10x Neut Rare AntFish +Spd+Stam 35k, 5x Neut Leg BatShark +Spd+Dmg 85k, 1x UNNEUT Comm PigBird +Carry+Const 350k
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/


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  • NerrorNerror Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I hope we can link stuff in the trade channel instead the above :D
  • daveywaveydaveywavey Member, Alpha Two
    WTS 10x [AntFish (Rare) (Neutered), +Speed, +Stamina] 35k, 5x [BatShark (Legendary) (Neutered), +Speed, +Damage] 85k, 1x [PigBird (Common) (Unneutered), +Carry Weight, +Constitution] 350k


    I've got your back @Nerror
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/


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  • NerrorNerror Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Ugh :D
  • There's too much mounts already... no mount is gonna be special.

    If you never have a normal horse, then a lizard wont be special.

    If you never have to walk, any mount will be special. There's a huge inflation on cosmetics and mounts... just for the people that wanted to help the project voluntarily, so I don't know why they are hurting the game to give these people some unique stuff.

    I like the game, but I don't like this at all. We will see rainbow lions with 4 tails on a lvl 10 character, it's gonna be ugly, so many years of development to stain it like this on release.
  • GeronimoGeronimo Member, Alpha Two
    edited February 2022
    Marcet wrote: »
    There's too much mounts already... no mount is gonna be special.

    If you never have a normal horse, then a lizard wont be special.

    If you never have to walk, any mount will be special. There's a huge inflation on cosmetics and mounts... just for the people that wanted to help the project voluntarily, so I don't know why they are hurting the game to give these people some unique stuff.

    I like the game, but I don't like this at all. We will see rainbow lions with 4 tails on a lvl 10 character, it's gonna be ugly, so many years of development to stain it like this on release.

    @Marcet Animal Husbandry (breeding) is already confirmed to be in the game, this post is not about whether that is right or wrong, it is about how to get rid of the surplus mounts to prevent oversaturation.
    daveywavey wrote: »
    Neut Rare AntFish

    @daveywavey Please describe the animation for this procedure, so the devs know what to implement :D
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    edited February 2022
    daveywavey wrote: »
    WTS 10x [AntFish (Rare) (Neutered), +Speed, +Stamina] 35k, 5x [BatShark (Legendary) (Neutered), +Speed, +Damage] 85k, 1x [PigBird (Common) (Unneutered), +Carry Weight, +Constitution] 350k


    I've got your back Nerror
    I'm unsure why the stats of the item need to be in the item name in your hypothetical here.

    Being able to look at the stats is why linking items is of value to players.

    Your example should look more like;

    WTS 10x [AntFish] 35k, 5x [BatShark] 85k, 1x [PigBird] 350k

    Which I consider to be perfectly reasonable.
  • Geronimo wrote: »
    @Nerror Solution #5

    1*YMNUd-RJjloh0PFiCVMugg.png

    😂😂😂 The chefs would love that
  • AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited February 2022
    Marcet wrote: »
    There's too much mounts already... no mount is gonna be special.

    If you never have a normal horse, then a lizard wont be special.

    If you never have to walk, any mount will be special. There's a huge inflation on cosmetics and mounts... just for the people that wanted to help the project voluntarily, so I don't know why they are hurting the game to give these people some unique stuff.

    I like the game, but I don't like this at all. We will see rainbow lions with 4 tails on a lvl 10 character, it's gonna be ugly, so many years of development to stain it like this on release.
    You're not wrong but I don't think it's going to be a big deal.

    Verra is a high magic world. Everything is fantastical. The squirrels will probably have glowing purple eyes and lightning flickering around their tails. The plant life will roam around trying to eat you. Every cave will have some weird nightmare creature. The bizarre and alien is commonplace. So the funky-looking mounts are just going to fit into the regular aesthetic.

    Whether or not a level 10 character is riding a 4-tailed lion mount will depend on whether or not that level 10 character is able to acquire a mount of the proper tier that the cosmetic will apply to. If that player has, for example, a gryphon cosmetic skin, that player is going to be waiting a long time before they are able to get a mount to apply it to, if they ever do. (It will depend on if that skin can be applied to gliding mounts, which eventually anyone can get, or actual flying mounts, which many players will never be able to have.)

    I don't think it's an issue of no mount being special. I think it's an issue of having to adjust your expectation of what makes a mount special in AoC.
     
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  • VoidwalkersVoidwalkers Member
    edited February 2022
    Noaani wrote: »
    daveywavey wrote: »
    WTS 10x [AntFish (Rare) (Neutered), +Speed, +Stamina] 35k, 5x [BatShark (Legendary) (Neutered), +Speed, +Damage] 85k, 1x [PigBird (Common) (Unneutered), +Carry Weight, +Constitution] 350k


    I've got your back Nerror
    I'm unsure why the stats of the item need to be in the item name in your hypothetical here.

    Being able to look at the stats is why linking items is of value to players.

    Your example should look more like;

    WTS 10x [AntFish] 35k, 5x [BatShark] 85k, 1x [PigBird] 350k

    Which I consider to be perfectly reasonable.

    But at least (Neutered) should get to stay in the item name though.
    AntFish & AntFish (Neutered) essentially belong in 2 different categories - one will likely be bought for breeding, the other just as regular ... regular ........ mount?

    @daveywavey
    What's an AntFish anyway??
  • KesyntanthKesyntanth Member, Alpha One, Adventurer, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I don’t know if mount saturation is even a problem, really. I mean, for one, the rarest and coolest mounts are the flying mounts. Those are awarded to mayors, city leaders and kings/queens. Apparently, there’s going to be something like 30 on an entire server.

    So, if we’re going for cool factor and functionality. That’s kind of the apex.

    There’s also going to be drops from sieges and such, which will require being hatched by an expert in animal husbandry. Realistically, those are all going to be within a guild and hatched by one of the guild animal husbandry experts.

    There’s not much known about the systems yet, as we’re still not even into Alpha 2, but, that’s kind of the default way things go for big event drops like that. Usually the guilds get first pick and/or the lion’s share of everything.

    In terms of the mounts themselves, it has already stated there will be multiple types. I mean, that’s aside from the whole aquatic/gliding/ground types. Some will be great at escape, some will be good for combat, some will be good for utility. I’m hoping utility means that some of them will have great vertical mobility for cave exploration and to get goodies from hard-to-reach areas.

    So, best of the best/coolest are going to go to the guild masters and other elite players. Of the non-flying types, there are several different kinds that have different functions. I very much doubt all of them will spawn in the same area, either.

    Also, is there going to be a meta for each type? Of course. Are the guilds going to try and lock down the best meta mount farming places for their private use? Of course. That doesn’t mean the mechanics will allow that, especially since are nowhere close to final development. Even if they can’t completely lock it down, they’ll make a killing off monopolizing that one meta.

    Such resources will be one more thing on the map to fight over. There’s no way to tell if it’s going to go the Shadowbane route or the EVE route. That is to say, either one mega guild locks down everything or, the big resources are always hotly contested and can be stolen by small elite teams taking out the big guys’ convoys (or caravans in this case).

    Then playing a bandit or pirate is way more fun and the econ is more interesting for the big guilds too.

    For my part, I think the design of the game is going to lend more towards the EVE route.

    So, the big D energy mounts are flying and they’re going to be super rare. Like 30ish on the server level super rare. The next most rare are the “gliding” mounts potentially. Down from there it’s kind of all based on the utility need (combat, speed, aquatic, escape etc). There’s going to be a meta or a few that are meta level. Does that count as the most sought after in the category?

    If we’re talking about the coolest looking, then, well, that’s pretty subjective. So, I guess the remaining issues would be, potentially: 1. Can high level breeders still make money at the end game? And 2. Will it be immersion breaking to see a low level character in rags riding a super shiny abomination?

    For the first question, I have no idea. Maybe? Experience in other mmos says yes, but, who knows how the structure will actually shake out. As to the second question, I guess the answer is “maybe”? Again, pretty subjective, but, people are going to twink their characters no matter what you do.

    As someone mentioned, we’re in a world with magical glowing squirrels. Twinking didn’t bother me in the other games, even ESO where it’s rampant. I guess it’s personal preference.
  • daveywaveydaveywavey Member, Alpha Two
    Geronimo wrote: »
    @daveywavey Please describe the animation for this procedure, so the devs know what to implement :D

    giphy.gif
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/


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  • daveywaveydaveywavey Member, Alpha Two
    What's an AntFish anyway??

    Just thinking outside the box for what future cosmetics might be. Imagine a sturgeon fish with six legs and a mandible. Amphibious!
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/


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