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Monetization

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Comments

  • GeronimoGeronimo Member, Alpha Two
    @Iridianny earlier you yourself said that 25% of the players need to use cosmetics as a core part of their gameplay.

    This means 75% do not need to use cosmetics as a core part of their gameplay.

    However, you are proposing a solution to force 100% of the players to pay additional money to support the 25% minority.

    The 75% do not want to have to pay any additional money for something they will not use at all.

    Hopefully you see why you are not getting any agreement here.
  • IridiannyIridianny Member
    Geronimo wrote: »
    Iridianny wrote: »
    All cosmetics are relevant to RP. This game is an RPG. Why do they think it will be enough for revenue if a cash shop doesn't affect but a nontrivial number of people?

    I'll say it again, the cosmetic shop is not only for RPers.

    I'll say it again, you keep ignoring the idea of community polls for art releases which would have a better effect on the "influence" you want to have on the art direction of this game.
  • GeronimoGeronimo Member, Alpha Two
    edited February 2022
    Iridianny wrote: »
    I'll say it again, you keep ignoring the idea of community polls for art releases which would have a better effect on the "influence" you want to have on the art direction of this game.

    Your increased subscription fee will have a worse affect on my wallet though.
  • CROW3CROW3 Member, Alpha Two
    Iridianny wrote: »
    I guess so if you have nothing better to do with your degree than comment on video game forums that are irrelevant to you.

    Bwahahahaha!

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  • IridiannyIridianny Member
    Geronimo wrote: »
    @Iridianny earlier you yourself said that 25% of the players need to use cosmetics as a core part of their gameplay.

    This means 75% do not need to use cosmetics as a core part of their gameplay.

    However, you are proposing a solution to force 100% of the players to pay additional money to support the 25% minority.

    The 75% do not want to have to pay any additional money for something they will not use at all.

    Hopefully you see why you are not getting any agreement here.

    Yes, I understand you value the 75% being not at all affected over the 25% being severely affected, but perhaps everyone could be minorly affected so that the game doesn't lose 25%.
  • KarthosKarthos Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Iridianny wrote: »
    Geronimo wrote: »
    Iridianny wrote: »
    All cosmetics are relevant to RP. This game is an RPG. Why do they think it will be enough for revenue if a cash shop doesn't affect but a nontrivial number of people?

    I'll say it again, the cosmetic shop is not only for RPers.

    I'll say it again, you keep ignoring the idea of community polls for art releases which would have a better effect on the "influence" you want to have on the art direction of this game.

    He keeps ignoring it because it's irrelevant for your self admitted 75% of the population, ergo it's irrelevant to the conversation.
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  • IridiannyIridianny Member
    How about this... no box cost, no cash shop, $19.99 a month plus pay for extra character slots? There's an easy alternative monetization idea. There's lots of them!
  • GeronimoGeronimo Member, Alpha Two
    edited February 2022
    Iridianny wrote: »
    Yes, I understand you value the 75% being not at all affected over the 25% being severely affected, but perhaps everyone could be minorly affected so that the game doesn't lose 25%.

    That same idea can be taken both ways:

    You say all 25% will just not play the game if there is a cosmetic shop.

    I could say we will lose the whole 75% because of the sub-fee increase.

    I do not think either is true however.

    It just makes 100% more sense to cater to the 75%. If we get scientific about this and count the number of people with strong opinions about this subject on the forum you will also find the 75% is actually much higher.
  • CROW3CROW3 Member, Alpha Two
    edited February 2022
    If 80% of the whining comes from 20% of your customers, increasing your customer segments outside that 20% may offset the revenue impacts of carte blanch eliminating 80% of the noise. That's what you call 'a worthwhile investment.'
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  • AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Iridianny wrote: »
    How about this... no box cost, no cash shop, $19.99 a month plus pay for extra character slots? There's an easy alternative monetization idea. There's lots of them!

    Why?

    If I see a costume I want and it costs even $20 (I'm going by Black Desert here).

    Why not let me buy it for four months of 'additional' fee?

    How many costumes are even needed here?

    Even my group's 'costume lady' won't be bothered that much by this. Until the cost of the costume hits around $50, not even the people who want costumes are doing better in this situation.
    ♪ One Gummy Fish, two Gummy Fish, Red Gummy Fish, Blue Gummy Fish ♪
  • KarthosKarthos Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited February 2022
    If you have such a huge issue with a MAJOR aspect of the game, do you even want to play this game?

    Or do you want to play a version of it that's not it, but kinda like it?

    Because coming into something with an invested community, who are all okay with said system, and wanting them to change it because you personally don't like it, because some minority of players MIGHT also like it that way is selfish as fuck.


    It's like me walking into Taco Bell and saying "I don't like Burritos, you need to make me Spaghetti".

    I'd get laughed out the door.


    This is why people are not "understanding" your points. You are asking for Spaghetti in Taco Bell.
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  • GeronimoGeronimo Member, Alpha Two
    edited February 2022
    CROW3 wrote: »
    If 80% of the whining comes from 20% of your customers, increasing your customer segments outside that 20% may offset the revenue impacts of carte blanch eliminating 80% of the noise. That's what you call 'a worthwhile investment.'

    Someone give this man his degree back!
  • CROW3CROW3 Member, Alpha Two
    Karthos wrote: »
    It's like me walking into Taco Bell and saying "I don't like Burritos, you need to make me Spaghetti".

    Well, wait - did you take the time to explain to Taco Bell how they can shift their entire price structure to accommodate your demand for spaghetti?

    AoC+Dwarf+750v3.png
  • KarthosKarthos Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    CROW3 wrote: »
    Karthos wrote: »
    It's like me walking into Taco Bell and saying "I don't like Burritos, you need to make me Spaghetti".

    Well, wait - did you take the time to explain to Taco Bell how they can shift their entire price structure to accommodate your demand for spaghetti?

    I did.

    I even had them take a personality test to show to them that there is a small portion of people who also like pasta, and that they need to shift their entire product line to accommodate this small portion of the population.
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  • BabayugahBabayugah Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited February 2022
    Iridianny wrote: »
    ItsFayne wrote: »

    So you like cosmetics but just have an issue with where they come from?

    Hello! Yes, I love cosmetics and I think they are an important part of any mmo. Hence why cash shops are successful. However, when I pay my monthly fee like everyone else, I shouldn't necessarily have what I find most enjoyable about the game be charged extra for. I stated many alternatives to that extra revenue in this thread and how it affects gamers like me! Also, how it could make the game more enjoyable in the longevity to make cosmetics earned and not just cash grabs. Here's an example I've stated before:

    You are roleplaying as your character being able to fight dragons in a fantasy world. Some people play in a different way. AoC said there are many types of progression besides combat. That was a core principle. You can be a mount breeder, a tavern owner, a baker, etc... They were trying to appeal to people who enjoy social aspects of mmo's with their principles of making many paths of progression and not the typical xp to level 100 and done.

    Hypothetically, I should be able to be a (for example) baker as my gameplay when I pay my monthly sub. Now, it the "baker" costume costs $20 on the cash shop, my entire gameplay has a barrier to entry that no one else had. It's not about the one costume, though, this could be hypothetically said about any cosmetic that they charge extra for.

    By this logic, I prefer a box price. I'd rather pay $60 once than $20 multiple times to get the furniture for the shop, the different costumes, etc, etc, etc. If you are the 1/4 of the player base that is wanting to play this part of the game, it now has the burden of being monetized.

    You do realize that cosmetics are obtainable in game, correct? This isn't BDO or PoE. Good-looking and relative cosmetics will be earnable in-game. The only concern you seem to have is how the current monetization model affects you and the minority like you. Your suggestions, real or not, have no bearing or thought on how it will affect others being the majority.

    Do you really expect a box price to cover the game/expansions/cosmetics? Your logic is non-existent when wanting a full game, expansions, cosmetics, etc on just a box cost lol.
    https://discord.gg/Axiom
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  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Iridianny wrote: »
    The free trial is at the beginning to get many people hooked so that the box cost can come after for a "full download". Then, you can charge per month after that.
    Or, they could just charge more than $15, say $19.99 and people wouldn't freak out over a $4 difference like is being assumed.
    If an MMO launches with a free trial, all it is doing is telling people the developers have no faith in it.

    Most games add one years later - as I suggested Ashes may.

    As I said above, since Intrepid have no track record at all of running an MMO, they can not at all charge higher than the industry standard for subscription fee. It just isn't feasible.

    You say you would rather not have a box cost, and would like to see the subscription stay at $15. You get that, so yay for you.

    The cash shop isn't influencing gameplay.
  • IridiannyIridianny Member
    Karthos wrote: »
    t's like me walking into Taco Bell and saying "I don't like Burritos, you need to make me Spaghetti".

    I'd get laughed out the door.


    This is why people are not "understanding" your points. You are asking for Spaghetti in Taco Bell.

    How? Is the monetization really the "meal" of this game to you?
  • ItsFayneItsFayne Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Iridianny wrote: »
    ItsFayne wrote: »

    So you like cosmetics but just have an issue with where they come from?

    Hello! Yes, I love cosmetics and I think they are an important part of any mmo. Hence why cash shops are successful. However, when I pay my monthly fee like everyone else, I shouldn't necessarily have what I find most enjoyable about the game be charged extra for. I stated many alternatives to that extra revenue in this thread and how it affects gamers like me! Also, how it could make the game more enjoyable in the longevity to make cosmetics earned and not just cash grabs. Here's an example I've stated before:

    You are roleplaying as your character being able to fight dragons in a fantasy world. Some people play in a different way. AoC said there are many types of progression besides combat. That was a core principle. You can be a mount breeder, a tavern owner, a baker, etc... They were trying to appeal to people who enjoy social aspects of mmo's with their principles of making many paths of progression and not the typical xp to level 100 and done.

    Hypothetically, I should be able to be a (for example) baker as my gameplay when I pay my monthly sub. Now, it the "baker" costume costs $20 on the cash shop, my entire gameplay has a barrier to entry that no one else had. It's not about the one costume, though, this could be hypothetically said about any cosmetic that they charge extra for.

    By this logic, I prefer a box price. I'd rather pay $60 once than $20 multiple times to get the furniture for the shop, the different costumes, etc, etc, etc. If you are the 1/4 of the player base that is wanting to play this part of the game, it now has the burden of being monetized.

    Yeah this is a lot of illogical fallacy nonsense.

    What makes you think the baker costume would be cash shop only? I think its pretty clear that there will be variations and options in game. (I mean, they've only said it 1000 times, so yeah).

    Also, I'd like to point out the real facts.
    We've been paying $15 since 2004. Inflation alone would make that same price today $30. You're cool paying $30 a month then? because if so...just buy $15 worth of embers each month...
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  • AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Taco Bell did once have a Mexican Pizza (and supposedly they're bringing it back this year). Maybe they can do a Mexican Spaghetti. There is a dish from Central Mexico called Sopa Seca de Fideo which is extremely similar to spaghetti.
    fideoseco2A.jpg

    I'm sure Taco Bell would find a way to screw it up.
     
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  • IridiannyIridianny Member
    No box cost, no cash shop, $19.99 a month plus pay for extra character slots is a great alternative that prevents cash shops from existing and expanding into pay to win in the future, which yes I know you have your promises written down in your journals, but it could happen! You don't like this idea because it again affects your play style but don't care to see how cash shops affect other's play style. :'(
  • KarthosKarthos Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited February 2022
    Iridianny wrote: »
    Karthos wrote: »
    t's like me walking into Taco Bell and saying "I don't like Burritos, you need to make me Spaghetti".

    I'd get laughed out the door.


    This is why people are not "understanding" your points. You are asking for Spaghetti in Taco Bell.

    How? Is the monetization really the "meal" of this game to you?

    I'm sorry, I should have made it less abstract.

    Me=You

    Taco Bell = Intrepid Studios

    Burritos= Ashes of Creation Payment Model

    Spaghetti= free cosmetics with box price/increased sub price

    Aq0KG2f.png
  • KarthosKarthos Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Iridianny wrote: »
    No box cost, no cash shop, $19.99 a month plus pay for extra character slots is a great alternative that prevents cash shops from existing and expanding into pay to win in the future, which yes I know you have your promises written down in your journals, but it could happen! You don't like this idea because it again affects your play style but don't care to see how cash shops affect other's play style. :'(

    It's like you're saying the words, but not listening to them and realizing they also apply to you...
    Aq0KG2f.png
  • ItsFayneItsFayne Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Iridianny wrote: »
    No box cost, no cash shop, $19.99 a month plus pay for extra character slots is a great alternative that prevents cash shops from existing and expanding into pay to win in the future, which yes I know you have your promises written down in your journals, but it could happen! You don't like this idea because it again affects your play style but don't care to see how cash shops affect other's play style. :'(

    Want to jump into discord and I can explain the math of metrics to you. Might make you better understand factors at play
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  • GeronimoGeronimo Member, Alpha Two
    Iridianny wrote: »
    No box cost, no cash shop, $19.99 a month plus pay for extra character slots is a great alternative that prevents cash shops from existing and expanding into pay to win in the future, which yes I know you have your promises written down in your journals, but it could happen! You don't like this idea because it again affects your play style but don't care to see how cash shops affect other's play style. :'(

    @Iridianny please give it a rest, most of us will never agree to pay more money to support your idea.

    I'm sorry for the people that it affects adversely (you and that other guy who commented at the beginning). But I will continue to work to keep myself from being adversely affected by more fees.
  • IridiannyIridianny Member
    I hope your investments and your "limited edition cosmetics in replace of shares" and your cash shops "but definitely not pay to win because it was promised by my bff Steven" works out. I will definitely never share another idea about a differing monetization model for a video game ever. It was my biggest mistake in life and I truly regret having a minority opinion... *begs for forgiveness*

    *fizzles away*
  • JahlonJahlon Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Iridianny wrote: »
    How about this... no box cost, no cash shop, $19.99 a month plus pay for extra character slots? There's an easy alternative monetization idea. There's lots of them!

    Can I just say this idea sucks.
    Radically RADICALLY Sucks

    Plus, you would drive away a ton of players, probably 40-50% of your player base with a 33% bump in monthly sub.

    Your yearly cost now goes from $180 to $240.
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    Make sure to check out Ashes 101
    Ashes 101 on YouTube
  • GeronimoGeronimo Member, Alpha Two
    Iridianny wrote: »
    I hope your investments and your "limited edition cosmetics in replace of shares" and your cash shops "but definitely not pay to win because it was promised by my bff Steven" works out. I will definitely never share another idea about a differing monetization model for a video game ever. It was my biggest mistake in life and I truly regret having a minority opinion... *begs for forgiveness*

    *fizzles away*

    Thanks, I hope it works out too.

    You are forgiven.

    *working on fizzle technique*
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    From 1-10, how bored are yall to keep going with this?
  • ItsFayneItsFayne Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    George_Black wrote: »
    From 1-10, how bored are yall to keep going with this?

    8/10. The guy is clearly a troll, and not that good at math.
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  • IridiannyIridianny Member
    ItsFayne wrote: »
    George_Black wrote: »
    From 1-10, how bored are yall to keep going with this?

    8/10. The guy is clearly a troll, and not that good at math.

    I am a female and I am not a troll, I will most likely play a Vek though. Kinda troll like.
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