Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Alpha Two Realms are now unlocked for Phase II testing!
For our initial launch, testing will begin on Friday, December 20, 2024, at 10 AM Pacific and continue uninterrupted until Monday, January 6, 2025, at 10 AM Pacific. After January 6th, we’ll transition to a schedule of five-day-per-week access for the remainder of Phase II.
You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
Alpha Two Realms are now unlocked for Phase II testing!
For our initial launch, testing will begin on Friday, December 20, 2024, at 10 AM Pacific and continue uninterrupted until Monday, January 6, 2025, at 10 AM Pacific. After January 6th, we’ll transition to a schedule of five-day-per-week access for the remainder of Phase II.
You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
Comments
Lovely videos. I think those girls are awesome. I never said that overweight people can't dance, are incapable of movement, exercise, etc in general, just that it's likely slower than someone of healthy weight with the same training. Watch any of the Winter Olympics and find people of that size. Okay not speed, how about agility. What about mount riding?
Stats will not be identifiable by appearance. Nor should they be.
The suggestion in the OP means that there will be a limit on how fat people can make a character with max Dex.
It means that there will be a limit on how skinny people can make a character with max Str.
And, I dunno how stats for Int and Wis are intended to affect appearance, but people should not be systemically forced to abide by those limitations, either.
If you choose to make a character whose appearance reflects their stats, you will be able to do that.
If you choose to make a character whose stats are surprising based on their appearance, you can also do that. Precisely as it should be.
I precisely disagree and my argument is precisely better than yours I do say my good sir.
nice vids i also dont say fat is indicater for slow movement however it is dancing, it does go well for some time but the longer it goes the weeker the performance get, maybe you have a vid where one of these women runs a marathon. however i doubt that such a vid exists. well i myself aint a slim person with 150kg. i know it myself that i can run fast for a short while but ontiniously aint possible
also would love to see them dancing this dance called Hakken:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=c701IjDsD88
and yes i know this is a extreme excample of a dance style.
well he has the final word anyways but for someone that loves DnD and tabletop rpg i hope this idea will make it into the game if not a similar function was allredy planed for the game.
i will play the game one way or the other anyway if it does make it in the game i would just have to give it more thougth when i make my character and will know if i choose a ugly apearacne i might have a disadvantage in the end whith that i have to life on. for me a possible thing of stats changers in apearance realy comes down to 5 stats so only 5 ajustments may effect it in total
muscle = +/- agility, +/- strength, +/- vitality
fat = +/- agility, +/- Intelligence, +/- vitatilty
heigth = +/-agility, +/- vitality, +/- intelligence, +/- strength
so that a ajustment may increse one stat while another may get lowered or so, so that in the end a big bulky char my have the most Vitality but isnt very agile or a small slim char has exceptional agility but lower vitality and power. so that he need more hits to deal the same amount of dmg than a max muscular one but its attackspeed is higher.
Important to mention is also that (in focus of the body without head): Fat usualy only can ajusted in certain bodyparts like on Male: Belly, Butt and Hips while Female also has the chest where fat is part of the selection all other bodyparts have only +/- Muscle sliders
so not that the sliders itself could give only bonuses without hanycapping at the same time. well the 3 named things aint sliders its goes into leg lengs arm length torso length and so on into all the diffrent sliders and while eacvh slider only manipulate the base racial stats in a very small fashion the summary of them will in the end set the stats. so a variation of settings can be made without steping away much from the initial stats. only ofcorse if the player wanna go for statmaxing.
but with the sliders effecting multiple stats its a challenge and prevents from the one and only stetting to have all maxed.
i heard a lot about high magic rpg in the topic so heres my thougths, well while caster are magical classes they need magical power or MP to strengthen their attack skills mana a source of their power but also melee classes need mana for some skills but they need power to strenthen their attack skills but for buffs they do not need MP since a buff doesnt get effected by mp and caster doesnt need power cause it does not mak3e their skills stronger. agility is more needed for close combat than for ranged attackers vitality is needed by all however the close combatants need primarly more vitality due to be hit by monsters directly due to the need of beeing close to attack themself.
so in the end no matter what class someone chooses to play he will need primarly 3 of the 4 stats maybe in rare occations all 4 of them (did reduce the stats count from 5 to 4 by fusing stamina with agility) however i dont know what stats there are in the game besides HP and Mana
PS: one additional thing just to mention here (without opening a new topic) all shown male models show that they are Eunuchs with their marks beeing removed or inverted into their bodys, is the first mmo-rpg game that doesnt show this feature.
It's very much a moot statement if rather than bring anything to the table you close off by just saying "my argument is better than yours".
It's fine to say you disagree, but there has to be a time to agree, to disagree. I find this way of closing things is going to be better accepted, shows willing to end a conversation and is heaps better for mental health if anything else lol.
I'm talking about characters who have insanely high Str due to innate magic rather than merely by biological physics. Such that if the character travelled back to Sanctus, they should no longer have the insanely high Str because Sanctus has no magic.
It's the equivalent of Supergirl, who does not have insanely high Str because of her huge muscles. She has insanely high Str due to the effects of a yellow sun. If she returns to Krypton or Kandor, she loses that insanely high Str, but it doesn't change her appearance. Same for Superman. When Superman visits Kandor, he loses his insanely high Str, but that does not change his appearance. Because his super-strength does not come from the size of his muscles.
In High Magic Fantasy RPGs, high Str is not necessarily derived solely from muscle size. Characters can have insanely high Str due to innate magic.
This is also true for Dex. High Dex is not necessarily limited by body shape. Especially for characters who have high Dex due to innate magic.
Obviously, high Wis and high Int are not going to be affected by body shape.
The Ashes character creator should not be systematically limiting body shape to conform with biased stereoptypes.
Your suggestion that choosing an ugly character puts that character at a disadvantage is disgusting.
In a game with a Charisma stat, low Charisma might have negative effects on NPCs attitudes and reputation checks, but even low Charisma is not limited to appearance. Characters with high beauty can also have low Charisma.
What your describing is simply an ugly, despicable stereotype that should have no place in any form of mass-media and basically amounts to body shaming.
It was a silly way of ending an argument going nowhere because the other party wouldn't acknowledge my points on how it would be a cool feature besides saying, "it should precisely be the way I want." But thanks for the critique that wasn't asked for of my post at the end of an exhausted argument you weren't a part of on an internet forum.
This would "force" some people to choose a character just for the meta.
A dilemma in WoW vanilla orcs and undead.
Nobody is forced, it would still be a choice of personal player preferences.
Also, I acknowledged your points. I disagreed that they are cool. And I've stated the reasons the suggestion is not cool several times.
This made me laugh.
@Iridianny - I'd suggest trying MO2. Create a character without looking at your stats and building a RP toon that's outside the normal curve, then seeing how you perform in combat against the majority of formulated players.
See I am not entirely worried about how my rp character performs in combat against perfectly formulated characters. Dygz said, "when a stat is changed, appearance is systemically is changed," assuming that the order of significance is stats then appearance. This isn't the case for everyone. So, could be argued that if you find appearance less important than stats why not allow this feature for people who find appearance more important?.... since it's less important to you anyway.
Regardless, as I've stated numerous times, there are multiple ways to alleviate this concern. So long as there are pros and cons to each range of each feature, then there is no perfect composition and it comes down to player preference. Also, so long as the effects are quite minor it really just makes it a more interesting game... and I know, you can't have the "best most perfect" stats, but isn't challenge what makes games fun? Not everyone likes to play on easy mode.
Ooo. I like that one. 🤗
I thought I made it quite clear that choosing to create a fat character should not result in limitations to Dex - just as choosing to create a skinny character should not result in limitations to Str.
Indeed, it's why I used the example of Supergirl. We start with her appearance since she was born without powers. Her thin frame, rather than having insanely huge muscles, does not prevent her from having super-strength when under the effects of a yellow sun.
It's also why I posted the videos of the fat dancers. Having a fat body shape does not cause them to have low agility.
Appearance should not inherently dictate stats. Especially not in a High Magic Fantasy setting.
Vampires are supernaturally strong - regardless of body shape.
Werewolves are supernaturally strong - regardless of body shape.
Same is true for super-hero settings.
Which is how we get the diversity of Kara Zor-L/Power Girl with huge muscles and Kara Zor-El/Supergirl with a thin body frame - both have the same strength levels.
The 2004 Superman/Batman arc, The Supergirl From Krypton, revealed that Kara Zor-El metabolizes yellow sunlight more efficiently that Kal-El, thus, despite their appearances, Supergirl is stronger than Superman.
Body shape does not inherently dictate stats.
Really has nothing to do with not having the best stats. It's about having the stats I want without that being systemically tied to appearance. Because there are times when looks can be deceiving. As I also stated:
A character can have high beauty and low Charisma...unless the system is designed to prevent that due to a biased stereotype dictating that high beauty must be correlated with high Charisma... or vice versa...that high Charisma must be correlated with high beauty.
Even without the proposed mechanic, people can choose to create characters with flawed stats, regardless of appearance. A character could have an insanely muscular appearance and have low Str.
People can also create characters who have a "flawed" appearance despite having awesome stats.
You can state your bias as many times as you want, but you cannot alleviate the fact that the suggested mechanic is body shaming and systemically reinforces negative stereotypes.
while seeing the topic so lifely is nice but its arguments are trapped in a loop so i gonna add with this post primarly what the wiki currently says about stats and what the goal of the topic is in more detail.
first of the wiki says that these 8 are the stats:
so we have
- Health
- Mana
- Power
- Dexterity
- Constitution
- Will
- Wisdom
- Mentality
besides Health and Mana the stats have effects attched to them that are multyplyed with the stats counter
now the raceial diffrence between level 1 characters in stats is somewhere between 0-10 per stat, as you level up you gain additional stats
also can you gain stats by choosing your archtype
also Tattoos will have an effect on stats
also Gear itself will distribute stats
while gear itself will distribute 40-50% of the total power
so combined primarly what comes during the game will have the biggest effect on stats
the topics intreset is to add in a option that allows besides the raceial choiuse that effects the base lvl 1 stats to have some apearence sliders also haveing a tiny effect on sthe stats but the effect is in the end on a maxed char with gear only the size of a fly compaired to an elephant. because the stat diffrence in races is only 0-10 statpoints the stat changers of bodyajustments may only range from 0-5 so only have half and since leveling does give additional statpoints that aint in relation to to those that are allredy in achived this means that in the end at maxed level the diffrence in stats will be still be 0-5 statpoints but now you you have compaired to level 1 without gear not only 10-30 points in a stat no now you have severl hundred or even thousands of statpoints
and yeah on level 1 its a huge advantage to have 25 instead of 20 stat points in one stat however in the end if you have 200-500 statpoints those 5 points diffrence doesnt matter much maybe your skill then does 1005 dmg instead of 1002 dmg.
it is visible but its so tiny that it doesnt effect the player in the character costumisation if you go for look you may be weeker at the statrt but as you progress you get even agin or maybe find the siutet gear that even make you stronger in the end. if you go for stats in the costumisation you may be stronger at the lower level but even here if you reach max who knows if your stat choise will be the best if you dont find the gear that supports the stats. and Tattoos can change stats since they are removeble. if the game itself will provide a remodeling tool for you char i dont know but maybe.
so overall it does add a bit more realism to the game but only at the start in the end this realims almost vaporizes in the void.
source of information
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Stats
It especially does not add more realism in a High Magic Fantasy setting.
Also, it's likely to be especially horrible for Tulnar customization.
How?
you keep refering to this high magic fantasy setting
but if i scroll back thru the games i played this could be said to every mmo-rpg that uses classes where it has worriors and mages
maybe you can tell us whats then a meduim magic fantasy, a low magic fantasy as well a non magic fantasy mmo-rpg is where statpionts are important
and please dont mix it with lootshooters or egoshooters
thx
Where, Str and Dex can innately have supernatural/magical components that are not merely tied to mundane/natural physics and/or body appearance.
Which is why you won't find this mechanic in the vast majority of MMORPGs...if any.
If it's a Low Magic or Non-Magic setting, there may not be any supernatural component to Str and Dex.
Conan is a Low Magic setting. And that setting tends to have Barbarian characters who are insanely strong due to being in peak physical shape - with no magic. So, this mechanic would be more appropriate there - even though the setting itself is rooted in biased stereotypes and hyper masculinity trope that were common back when the setting was first created.
Stat points are important. They simply shouldn't be systemically tied to appearance.
This is a big assumption to make by you. Perhaps consider that it wasn’t easy to implement until recent technology. Also, consider that many mmos have been designed to deliver a cookie cutter easy experience influenced mostly by profit as of lately.
Next, realize that it is widely used in dnd, the game fantasy rpgmmos we’re essentially designed after.
Then, maybe read how ashes wants to be different then recent mmos. Lastly, accept they have stats tied to tattoos, so your point that this concept shouldn’t be added into the game doesn’t make sense because it already is!
Yea nice. You can’t even answer a simple question of how stats tied to appearance doesn’t add realism if it were tied to Earth… where it really happens.
It's your mistaken assumption that the lack of this mechanic is due to the limits of tech.
I answered that question before you asked it. So... read what I've already written.
Oh yea I forgot you are all knowing about video game development and the history of mmos, my bad...
And I've been playing RPGs for 40 years and MMORPGs for 25 years, so...
I know a little something. Yes.
What MMORPG?
The fact stills stands that it's already a feature in the game and it should be pushed further because it adds realism and you cannot answer how it doesn't.