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Expanding Character Costumisation for more depths
Asraiel
Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
Hello fellow AoC supporters and developers
quite some time has passed since my last post in the forum but i kept me updated by the monthly streams.
After yesterdays stream a idea did cross my mind that could add more depths to the character costuisation.
currently known is that there will be several diffrent races and those differ in thier bases stats, however stats are set per race without diffrentation of gender. that i think is good and should not be changed. but what could add changes is the costisation of the podyparts where some does effect the basestats sligthly. so here some mentionings to better see what i mean by that:
each race each gender starts with a balanced model where the stats are best so every class can be easly played. now with the coistumisation the base stats slightly change depending on user modelings.
- leg lengs does have a small effect on agility and speed
- bodyfat Scale has an effect on mana and mana regenration high Bodyfat has hight mana while slim bodys have less
but in addition higher bodyfat has a negativ effect on agility while less does boost agility
on the character costumization the user can ajust brest, belly, butt as well as all other stuff the bodyfat bar then ether slims the apearence or adds more fillings to it
- muscle does impact how muscular the body appears it adds strength but slightly decreses agility
- also the hight opf the body effect stats
so if you play in the end a fat mage then you have more mana and mana regen however you may not be as agile as a normal mage
a big assasin may be faster while a smaller will have more evasive compnents
a muscular tank might be slower in movement but can withsand more dmg may deliver slower attacks but the power of these attack getting stronger.
and so on i highly belive that there are many many more possible costumisations that could have a small effect on stats
but to be clear on top from the basestats that are set with every costumisation in the middle these chances only have a mall effect in total on the stats so that they combined might only shift stats between +/- 20-50% from the racial based and midlled stats. so choosing a muscular race and adding more may still be better for some classes. but on how to scale and what might be implementet the developer should do the brainstorming. my goal for posting this is only to poke and tell the developers that this might be something to add or to leaf out.
thank for your time and nomatter whats the decion in the end will be cant wait to test alpha 2.
keep up the spirit and the good work and stay save from corona and odder illnesses
Regards Asraiel
quite some time has passed since my last post in the forum but i kept me updated by the monthly streams.
After yesterdays stream a idea did cross my mind that could add more depths to the character costuisation.
currently known is that there will be several diffrent races and those differ in thier bases stats, however stats are set per race without diffrentation of gender. that i think is good and should not be changed. but what could add changes is the costisation of the podyparts where some does effect the basestats sligthly. so here some mentionings to better see what i mean by that:
each race each gender starts with a balanced model where the stats are best so every class can be easly played. now with the coistumisation the base stats slightly change depending on user modelings.
- leg lengs does have a small effect on agility and speed
- bodyfat Scale has an effect on mana and mana regenration high Bodyfat has hight mana while slim bodys have less
but in addition higher bodyfat has a negativ effect on agility while less does boost agility
on the character costumization the user can ajust brest, belly, butt as well as all other stuff the bodyfat bar then ether slims the apearence or adds more fillings to it
- muscle does impact how muscular the body appears it adds strength but slightly decreses agility
- also the hight opf the body effect stats
so if you play in the end a fat mage then you have more mana and mana regen however you may not be as agile as a normal mage
a big assasin may be faster while a smaller will have more evasive compnents
a muscular tank might be slower in movement but can withsand more dmg may deliver slower attacks but the power of these attack getting stronger.
and so on i highly belive that there are many many more possible costumisations that could have a small effect on stats
but to be clear on top from the basestats that are set with every costumisation in the middle these chances only have a mall effect in total on the stats so that they combined might only shift stats between +/- 20-50% from the racial based and midlled stats. so choosing a muscular race and adding more may still be better for some classes. but on how to scale and what might be implementet the developer should do the brainstorming. my goal for posting this is only to poke and tell the developers that this might be something to add or to leaf out.
thank for your time and nomatter whats the decion in the end will be cant wait to test alpha 2.
keep up the spirit and the good work and stay save from corona and odder illnesses
Regards Asraiel
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Comments
cant disagree with that statement.
as a player of many survival games these bodyajustments aint yet part of modern mmo rpgs but developments is on the way to change that. since the game isnt yet in a relase state this might give a opportunity to take on the lead for future mmo development. computers these days can handle way more data than they could back in 2004 for example and will even expand their potetial in the upcoming future.
one game i could name currently that goes even a step future than simply costumisation in a character designer is the PVX Survival SCUM where ingame actions change the characters body and its capabilitys however that games focus is to getting close to a real expirience. but for a fantasy based mmo rpg that is way to much for players due to also have to manage skills and a lot of other stuff that aint part of realistic survival games.
however having some ajustments that have a effect on the basestats even just a very small one, will - in my opinion - add aditional depth to the costumisation and player freedom as well unlocks oportunitys to those that will play the game in a hardcore fashion.
(however i have to add here that all the stuff planed for the game will problably sort out casual players anyways cause a hell lot of time will be needed to achive to get decent gear and item stock or housing)
if 2 players both have dunirs and same gear and same class then its currently some rng (luck), connection (ping) and skill that has the impact in pvp however if one of the player has a diffrent race then its uneven tecnicly.
haveing small ajustments in the creation of a character may counter the effect of beeing uneven between the same class but with diffrent race. shure here its also importent to not to forget that, if both have the same race it will be also uneven due to the diffrent player choises in the costumisation.
it will slow down or even prevent the establishment of the one and only way to play a specific class, something i've seen in tons of other games in the past 20 years. after a while it did establish a spec that you had to play this class with those weapons this gear and those skills, or your trash. with diffrent race stats it just goes a step future by adding "that race with that class, gear, weapons and skills, or you're trash. in the end due to wanna some classes in diffrent ways that the "perfect way" these character endet up never getting a chance to be part of a raid or dungeon party because they didnt follow this "best way" thing. that shure is diffrent between comunitys but as mentioned 20 years expirience so about 90% of the time you would be left out specialy if it was your main char forcing players into a specific playstyle that just took out the fun from them. with more diversety in setups its getting harder to establish that perfect way and may even end up that there isnt "the" perfect way at all. and thru this leaves the player the choise on how he wanna play without the fear of beeing left out.
so with such ajustments that effect also the basestats sligtly the prozess of finding the abosulte perfect match enlarges severla hundred if not more times cause it takes time to play a char up to max and repeat that process and with these additional ajustments it will need more that just 8x playing up a char or howmany races are planed. since a small chnage in stats may not seen like big of a deal but may end up changeing quiet a bit on max level.
shure later introduced gear if dlc or expansion of the game restarts the process again.
sorry here did get longer than i wanted but thx for takeing your time
Regards Asraiel
Stats should not be dictating appearance.
Survival game is a different genre than RPG.
Just because you like soccer and soccer doesn't allow you to use your hands to move the ball down the field does not mean that basketball should have the same rule.
the stat diffrence in races allredy does that in AoC and its also wanted that racial features cant be hidden with skins so you see the race type from afar depending on gear and weapon you then can tell the class. and those features are allredy in AoC.
additional stuff could also easly get implemented without disturbing this because its allredy a part of the game
dont get me wrong here the idea of the stats getting sligthly changed in choise of the apearans doesnt fundamentaly change the base stats that are given only tiny to small so if im willing to play a fat female dwarf over a regular female dwarf and getting a tiny better stat out for doing so i would love it. shure those that want to play a elfen female gladiator with oversizes brest may doest like it as much but then you can play a asia game.
A Dünir will not start with a default appearance that changes as Racial stats change.
In Ashes, you can tell race by the silhouette/stature. That doesn't necessarily tell you much about the stats of a character.
And race/class can wear any gear and wield any weapon, so... no you can't guarantee class by what a character has equipped.
In Ashes, you will be able to play a fat, female Dünir if you want, but whether she is fat or thin is not going to affect her stats. Nor should it.
The only survival game I've played is Ark ... and that game doesn't have stat adjustments for character appearance.
you problably missed the point i made
each race has diffrents stats
each race has its own unique apearance
elfs are elfs, dwarfs are dwarf and elfs have their stats and dwarfs have their stats they do not share the same stats.
problably you did over read that point i did refer to.
i did play ark but ark doesnt support such a mechanic.
shure at this exact moment in game development only the survival games working on such system that going even thurder than this idea cause they go sofar that your action in gameing like you run around or what ever does train your character in this direction and thru this changeing the stats BUT that isnt what i suggest here.
AoC has diffrent races and each race has its own stat set and each race has its own apearance. the suggestion just did go 1 tiny step thurder by adding a small mechanic that the costumation of the character besides the raceal choise also has its effect on stats. so players may prefer to play with ork stats but want to look like a elf and thur the costumations they could at least getting closer to this if the adjustments also have an effect on the base stats.
or in more detail
there might be 3-5 base stats in total like vitality, stamina, agility, strength, intelligence and only those will be slightly effected in the end like one human race has 30 Vitality the other 32 ajustments may only give +/- 0,5 vitality. so it has an effect but its not a gamechanger and in character creation i know from High graphic games where you can costume real life peoples, there are many things that visualy are hard to see even if a slider is fully on one side. and that while the model is naked. armors and skins often hide certain costumisation so they vanish compleatly + normaly the camera angle is at max distance and you see your character from the back so tiny on the screan that you cant tell or see certain costumisation like eye color from the back hidden behind a helmet. i cant remeber when i ever saw a character running around naked outside of a savezone. shure sometimes you scroll in on your char and looking at costumes but of all the gametime thats maybe only 1% of the time, in the other 99% your so far away that you cant tell or your focused on fighting or on your 2nd monitor to watch an anime while crafting ingame.
in the end it depends on how much the ajustments can be made and how much is wanted by the devs. dont get me wrong i adore the movie "a nightmare before christmas" but i dont like to see characters in that fasion in AoC.
Regards Asraiel
Races will have distinct appearances.
Races will also have racial stats.
Racial appearance will not be affected by changes in racial stats. Nor should they be in an RPG.
It really has nothing to do with this point in game development.
It has to do with the fundamentals of game genres.
Game devs creating RPGs shouldn't add the feature you're requesting.
Game devs creating some other genre of video game might be up for adding that feature, sure.
Also, I don't think many of them have played dnd where rules like you suggested are quite common to make the games interesting and engaging. I for one think it's a great idea
Yes, If I make a fat mage, I think it'd make logical sense that my mage is a slow runner. Unless they have a potion/spell of swiftness! I think there should even be sex related differences. That would make player customization have consequences and benefits that you don't get spelled out for you. It adds realism! Which everyone seems to want more and more of from their rpgs, but just not the very real inconveniences of realism I guess. It would absolutely make the game more interesting and engaging because that's what inconveniences do.
Which, isn't that what everyone who plays games wants... a more interesting and engaging game?
There are plenty of quick satisfaction, hand holding, dopamine hitting, easy games out there and they SUCK!
Decoupling stats and appearance actually opens more RP potential with a greater diversity of racial phenotypes.
But not everyone wants to play to the "perfect" efficiency, this game might have different goals and those differences would be great. So long as there are a variety of pros and cons to each direction of each scale that wouldn't be an issue. It would allow preferences to play.
sofar i can remember the devs dont want to create a game where the character getting to much into Porn direction so if you look at FF14 such Porn like characters are not the thing wanted for AoC by the devs.
in the end it depend massive on the ajustment possebillitys that could be made and if added in that it does effect stats as well then it will be only in a small way. here a Dunir pic from the wiki in a light armor:
now imagine haveing a fat belly which might increase the belly by 2-3 cm if the model is around 150cm tall
or haveing more or less muscular arms
but alway keeping in mind the body is hidden behind a armor and so you may not see the body proportion at all in the end specialy if you dont know the apearance without the armor
in design of skins and armors the game Ashes of Creations is located in a fantasy 15 century style there i think and hope you will not come across skins that look like this FF14 skin:
it will stay in the monthly seen direction of the skins that are shown every months the body is primaly fully coverd and doesnt leave open areas in between
i see it that way at first it will have one set of armor and weaponst that are best in endgame but with time, dlc, expansition and other set and weapons take over the place and may change that a diffrent stat set is best for it and which is then on maxed a tiny bit better than the previous one but needs the player to us diffrent skills.
but even without that you have skills from class archtypes guild gear, weapon church and many other places so finding the perfect build is hard what if your guild doesnt have the needed skills then you cant get there. or you dont have the gear or weapon and if changes come diffrent gear diffrent skills
in short term i can agree there will be such a monotone focus as Cow did discribe it but the game aint suporting the short term. AoC will not be the game where you play up in 1-4 weeks to max and being maxed geared. well leveling your char might work in that time but since you need also to level up in church or your guild the nodes and so on it will you take several months to finaly be max but if your node get destroyed and and other prostper that unlocks a dungeon where it has even better gear but that gear needs diffrent stats to be efficiant.
so the game itself prevents in all its planed mechanics that there will be the one and only way
so haveing ajustments with stat effeccts adds more depths to the rp of the rpg in the end it depents how much you can ajust and if your charcater doesnt stand to a same character with slithly diffrent ajustments you problaby will not be able to tell only if your the player that loveing to play a ridiculs char and just is interesting in anoying others with the apearance then you will not like it.
Especially not in a Fantasy RPG with high magic.
your opinon and thats fine to have that opinion
i just dont share that opinion as well others also dont. i mean sofar 4 peoples did post in this topic however a server will have up to 10'000 players maybe a bit less if toons are also calec in and not only 4
some will play for rping
some will play 4 fun
some will play to maxing their stats
everyone can do as he likes even with stats changes attached to body apearence changes.
shure a asmongold will have a certain char design and problaply go for stats as well in creation to get the max out of it but as his main char is mostly human he problaby will choose human even if ork has better stats for its class choise. and rping with someone known the apearance comes after the name.
there will be a tiny piece of the players that go for stat boostings as well rping most will differ and not go for max stats cause they wanna play a char a race that they like the moist in apearance. giving those the possebility even with their raceal choise beeing good in their class is a good thing i like to see elf tanks, dwarf mages and so on more diversety.
and a other thing mmo rpgs dont have difficulty modes a player cant choose to play easy normal hard or asian. but races adds this diffeculty to the game and with additional stat changes a player can thurder increse that. so far that flexing with the best possible race and designchoise is less forfilling than achive it with the worst combination. if you defeat a player with maxed stats and onehit skills with the effect of suprise while you oponent was in the middle of pve mobgrind aint a thing to flex about but if the attacked manages to turn around and beating the attacker that had the better stat combination as well the suprise effect and many other advatages then this players is a tru god.
yet im not up to date if the devs wanna add a tool to redesign your character later into the game.
What you are suggesting just restricts aesthetics and RP. It doesn't add difficulty.
Should Intrepid cater to a tiny piece of player population that want stat boosts on appearance?
No.
Do other games (MMOs or Survival genre games) cater to a tiny piece of player population that want stat boosts on appearance?
No.
As someone who actively engages in rp, it does not restrict it at all it would enhance it greatly. Rp is not just about character appearance, though important, it’s about actively playing a character through the lens of their eyes and not your own. Interesting and engaging characters always include faults in games, movies, literature, real life, etc.
So long as there are disadvantages and advantages for each class, race, and both ends of the scale of every feature then there will be balance from natural player preferences and exploration.
Here’s an example if you are struggling to understand:
A human mage who is fat may have a bigger mana pool but cast slower and a mage who is skinny may cast faster and have a smaller mana pool. Add that same concept to race and sex differences and you have a lot of interesting characters.
If that sounds just too difficult for you, there could even be options to increase both mana pool and cast time regardless of size through advanced gameplay that would add more to the game content. Then, you can still achieve your “perfect composition” through more effort and time so it’s an actual achievement.
To assume everyone will go for the internet’s definition of the max efficiency character composition is underestimating players who choose hard mode on rpgs, players who care more about appearance than efficiency, and causal players in general.
With High Magic, beings can be godly strong or godly agile regardless of appearance.
Low stats can still cause character flaws regardless of appearance.
And appearance can also cause flaws regardless of stats.
In a High Magic Fantasy setting, we should expect looks to be deceiving.
It’s an OK suggestion for a no magic setting and possibly a Low Magic setting. Sure.
(Assuming there also is no Hi-Tech.)
From my previous comment: there could even be options to increase both mana pool and cast time regardless of size through advanced gameplay that would add more to the game content. Then, you can still achieve your “perfect composition” through more effort and time so it’s an actual achievement.
That should be a thing in any case.
Regardless of stat changes directly changing appearance as suggested in the OP.
Then I don't see how the appearance stat changes would be an issue? As for your specific need to have highly deceptive magic users, they could just add a skill to change your appearance with magic.
In a High Magic Fantasy setting, almost everyone uses magic in some fashion.
Many beings use magic innately rather than the magic being a skill.
But, if you can’t understand what I’ve said already, I need to stop trying to explain it to you.
Have a great week.
I mean you are assuming that the magic of AOC is under your limited idea of what magic in a make believe universe has to mean. No, magic users do not necessarily have to be deceptive in appearance and I gave a solution to how they could be through getting better at magic. Also, I think magic users are actually pretty obviously magic users in high magic fantasy settings so it's not really "deceiving."
Again, magic-user is your concept; not mine.
But if that’s what you want to think, you get to think that.
Have a great week.
well AoC will be in a fantasy world where magic exists but i doubt that every class will use it as their primary souce of power.
a assasin, ranger, tank, knight and so on they shure will have several skills that uses magic or mana but mainly agility and power is what is countet for boosting their physical attact.
those that uses mana over agility and power are caster classes these are the one where it would have an effect but since they also beeing long range classes they do not have the need to dodge or evade attaks they focus on resisting magic typ attacks and keeping their disance to melee attacker well if melee and caster have both the same speed then the caster will problably win. thats wy several casts even in alpha 1 had cast times where the player couldnt move.
going deeper into the stats where not only the race but also the choise of a pearence does effect movement and combat would be great because there aint games out that do that. well dont get me wrong AoC is a game that is developed with the thought in mind not to copy what other games do. its goal is to enrich the expirience of what mmo rpgs can be with adding so many new features that no other game has. and we also need to remind ourself that the most named game by Steven is Lineage2 a competitive game. AoCs goal is to have the game become player driven, and with more options to choose from the better.
previous games had skilltrees and after selecting a class your skills that you can have were shown infrom of you also was it so that if your a mage you wouldnt be able to were a tank armor or useing a sword but ind AoC you can do that. and back to skills your class based skills are maybe around 25-50% off all skills you can have access to because the gods you will belive in will unlock skills 4 u, the guild your in will unlock skills 4 u, gear, weapon and and much much more will unlock skills 4 u.
at this point we as comunity simply deost have enouth informations to clearly step up and take a position, if this Idea/suggestion good or bad. but the focus for this topic was to tell it to the devs because they are the ones specialy Steven that decides if or if not such a idea makes it into the game.
as for me i never start a topic with the thougth: this is what i would implement befor posting i look at the ideas from a more casual player perspective, since i know im a real hardcore player thet ever whrites wikis for games. and well i stay to my idea and still find it woulkd enrich the game if the apearance ajstments only take the body (without the head) and if the changes in stats are small so that for someone that aint trying to go maxed maybe get to a efficiency of 97-99% compaired to a maxed player that aims for 100%.
Regards Asraiel
Thx to
@Iridianny
@CROW3
@Taleof2Cities
@Dygz
to participate in the discussion and share us their opinons in regard of makeing AoC to the best MMO-RPG for several decades.
Py’Rai can be incredibly strong via inherent magic rather than via physics biology, like a Human from Earth.
In a High Magic Fantasy setting, the same can be true of Humans.
In such settings, it’s common for Dragons to be unable to fly when they enter a region of no magic because it’s not simply physics that allows them to fly - there is also an innate magic component to their flight ability.
Ren’Kai Rogues may be innately magically agile, regardless of their how much bulk they have. Any Ren’Kai could be surprisingly agile despite their bulk, even without magic.
A Ren’Kai Mage should be able to be just as huge, physically, as a Ren’Kai Tank and still have the max Intelligence for a Ren’Kai.
Just because you have a bias to stereotype appearance based on an assumption of how stats correlate with physical appearance does not mean that the character creator should systemically reflect your stereotypes.
People can still go for min or mixed stats rather than maxed stats without a character creator that systemically stereotypes appearance.
This is silly. For example, I have yet to see a largely overweight person win an Olympic track race. It’s okay to be fat and to acknowledge the truth of biology and physics that it’s harder to move with larger mass. That’s not stereotypes that’s just realism. Now to add ANY real world biological features to a fake world with magic has always been up to the designers and those who created the lore of the world. So, I’m sure they’d come up with great ideas to implement this and give both spectrums of appearance features pros and cons with all stats that makes sense for their universe. Don’t you?
But by your logic, maybe the game shouldn’t be realistic at all including graphics to avoid stereotypes. They should actually remove humans as a race and make it all alien cartoon to match the natural evolution of the planet they created and to avoid stereotypes from Earth biology. That’s silly!
Matching small stats to character sliders for different features sounds logical, unique, and a really cool feature to add the realism into the game. Realism being something that people seem to want more and more of in mmos.
Personally, I dislike realistic graphics because it inherently causes those unrealistic features to look jarring and induce a similar uncanny valley feeling. If I saw a fat hyper realistic human mage running super fast, it would look foolish and poorly designed. So I can see how for a more realistic game, this feature would work well.