1. What do you like about the current art direction of this race?
- I wanted to go with Py’rai in the beginning because I like the idea of forest elves, and after seeing this concept I’m much more excited for it. I really like the dryad concept, and if we could customize the horns/bark skin that would be so cool! I think also being able to control some subtle colors on the more bark/horn features would be fun, maybe in the range of greens, blues and darker purples, or maybe even a deeper red.
2. Is there anything you dislike about the art direction for this race, and why?
- Not really. I would personally make the features a little less dramatic, but I think that could be easily done with different options for eyes, nose and mouth at character creation.
3. Are there any specific Character Creator customizations you would like to see for the Py'rai female?
- Maybe some bark textures for the arms and legs, with sliders for the amount of that texture. Different styles of horns/branches, maybe even an option to add some bark texture to the cheekbones depending on how much more dryad-like you want your character to be.
I tend to agree with the 'toned down' part. Don't get me wrong I love both the Vek and the Py'Rai but they both are much more stylized and a bit less realistic looking than the other races. That aspect has been mentioned in the thread a few times already. Perhaps the answer is to go slightly less stylized on the Vek and Py'Rai, and slightly more on the other races and meet somewhere in the middle. They all look great and I don't believe wholesale change is needed....just need a little unification in the artistic direction overall.
Please don't remove the horns. I hope they remain mandatory as well, so that the Py'rai are easy to distinguish at a glance. Especially in a PVP focused game, having each race quick to tell apart is important. I'm biased as well, since I absolutely love the design and after seeing this concept art, I'm sold on that this will be the race I play.
I am hoping that there are some green tones that will be included as options for the skin color as well. And some good earthy browns to look like bark. I'm looking forward to seeing what options will be available for different tastes- And if things like flowers will be available on the horns, it would be nice if there's also options for leaves (preferably in both green and autumnal colors). Would be nice for those of us who want to lean heavier into the plant aesthetic.
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AtamaMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
The antlers came by surprise, but not unwelcome. I'd like to see a female Py'rai with blooming twiggs.
I have 2 issues though:
- eyelashes,
- jewelry, especially in right ear; It's ok if it's just for player customization but I don't think that suits race concept, aside from looking awful(at least for me).
A lot of people are taking issue with the eyebrows. As long as they're adjustable, I feel like it'll be fine. It's a little too-WoW in the example given - but as long as they don't *have* to be that big, I feel like it's fine.
Same thing for the ears. Yours truly likes the big ears because any earrings will stand out more/be more visible.
I think the overall style of having nature elements directly fused into their body is similar to the Sylvari of Guild Wars 2. It is certainly an aspect that should be explained in the game in some way. I like it though.
An Idea for character customization could be to be able to lean more or less into these nature elements to the point that a character maybe wouldn't have eyes, ears, a nose or a mouth. Just a thought.
One thing I dislike which is the same thing like with the "troll" race we've seen before, is that the skin is to shiny imo which gives it a comic look. The skin should have more detail. AoC goes for a relatively realistic art style from what I have seen so for in the world. So the characters should look life-like imo.
I agree! the humans and dwarfs look more realistic, while the orcs and elf look more cartoon like.
They don’t look like they belong in the same game.
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AtamaMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I think the overall style of having nature elements directly fused into their body is similar to the Sylvari of Guild Wars 2. It is certainly an aspect that should be explained in the game in some way. I like it though.
An Idea for character customization could be to be able to lean more or less into these nature elements to the point that a character maybe wouldn't have eyes, ears, a nose or a mouth. Just a thought.
One thing I dislike which is the same thing like with the "troll" race we've seen before, is that the skin is to shiny imo which gives it a comic look. The skin should have more detail. AoC goes for a relatively realistic art style from what I have seen so for in the world. So the characters should look life-like imo.
I agree! the humans and dwarfs look more realistic, while the orcs and elf look more cartoon like.
They don’t look like they belong in the same game.
I believe the humans and dwarves are fully rendered, the orcs and elf are concept art. (The Dunir dwarf at least, I think the Nikua is still concept art.) That's the difference. I may be wrong, but I believe that was mentioned somewhere. (And I am having the darnedest time finding it.)
The antlers look epic though it would be cool if flowers or leaves could grow and wilt on them depending on the game seasons. The ears and eyebrows are a bit much though, hopefully they're adjustable to make them smaller.
Lools really gorgeous, only issue I have with the model is that certain portion of the facial skin dont match. The forehead is smooth while the area around the temple, cheekbones and cheeks isn't; this all makes it appear somewhat unkempt. I would suggest that you abandon the smooth forehead and just mske the overall skin texturized
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AtamaMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I personally was very happy with this elf concept! I'm always fond of Wood Elves / Sylvari/ Nature/ Druids etc. so I am liking what I see! Personal tastes would have her in more natural makeup and less "warcrafty" eyebrows. I ADORE the ears, very unique, and the adornments/jewelry is neat! Will they get "unnatural" hair colours to match their environment?
Again more customization options is always a good thing (unless it's immersion breaking ofc).
I love the concept. Its great that they are distinct from the other elven race.
The only thing I am not a fan of are the ears as shown in this particular example.
I hope they are customiazble enough to make them less 'noticable'.
Different kinds and 'heaviness' of the bark skin would also be appreciated.
Why do so many people hate the antlers and bark skin!
Just change the skin color on a normal elf style. If their character creation customization is as detailed as they are boasting it should be easy to make your ideal character if all you want is a reskin of a standard elf.
I liked the concept. Thought it was a great additional and going to add some awesome diversity to the game. I personally love seeing these races being knocked out the norms.
I really love it. Love the horns, the bark skin, the ears. The eyebrows are a little iffy, but that's likely something that will be fully customizable.
I am so, so glad that the Pyrai aren't the typical wood elf design of "olive skinned elf with amber or green eyes and leaves in their hair". Anybody who thinks otherwise is a coward and is incorrect.
I hope that the Pyrai have three things that are a staple of their character design and cannot be removed and "humanified".
1) the ears
2) the horns
3) the 'bark skin'.
They should be fully customizable, but cannot be fully removed. If you want to play something with human features, play a human. If you want something with more traditional elf features, play empyrean.
You want the horns to be optional? Good, because they already are. You can just pick empyrean. You want the skin to be different? It can be (if you play a human). GTFO with complaining for every design decision that isn't a copy-paste of the Neverwinter designs.
Their Pyrai design says so much good about Intrepid's race design. I hope that they stick to their gut with this one. I think the unique design will make more people play pyrai as compared to a boring brown skin elf.
Rant over.
Anyway, I think that if they go all the way with the horn customization, the pyrai will be really cool. Imagine if you can model the horns like you can with BDO hair: choosing parts to bend, make longer, and make shorter. Give base options that have 'nodes' for more branches to come off of. You can then decide what grows off each of those branch nodes. push them in certain directions, make them longer or shorter. Give some really short options for people who dont like horns, and some huge options for people who want to go full moose.
What do you like about the current art direction of this race? Is there anything you dislike about the art direction for this race, and why?
I love the art direction for the Py'rai. It really took me by surprise and blew me away, and could actually be my first choice for main character. Overall, the ears were a bit much for me, but I love the horns and nature inspired color palette.
What are your thoughts on what was shown during the livestream for the Py'rai female concept?
Amazing job! I really love the initial viewing. I've seen some pushback on the horns from other players. I heard Steven mention horns being the defining feature of the race from a visual perspective. I'm not sure I understand the need for unique race silhouettes in PVP. So I don't personally understand the "need" for horns, even though I like them personally.
Are there any specific Character Creator customizations you would like to see for the Py'rai female concept?
I would like to see a larger variety of plant inspired customizations for Py'rai. It could be cool to introduce greener vine or plant fiber skin options, or maybe flowers/mushrooms scattered in the hair? So many great options from just a single image!
Overall the design is a cool fresh new take on a more naturesc race, great job! Its the antilope equivalent to WoWs spacegoats. But leaving it this animalistic and call it an elf at the same time is a bit of a stretch. I defo think you can keep the general direction, but don't make antlers and weird skin effects or ears mandatory. You could implement sliders that reduce these elements to a very minimal level, they don't need to disappear completely, but atleast give the option for a more traditional wood elfy druidy vibe. The less restrictive you are the more you will hype up ppl. Character creation is simply a sensitive and very important matter to many. and I quite frankly wouldn't care for 10 sliders that change the nose of a character to perfection if i can't get rid of the ear shape or the antlers. I never played demon hunter in WoW because they forced the fel demon aesthetic from Illidan on the class and I just found that to be super ugly, like especially the wings...
Don't take this class/race fantasy approach to extrem levels. We need a little bit of breathing room.
Apart from that, you guys are killing it!!!
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kyrakuMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
i dont mind it.. as long as some of the features are customisable.. eyebrows, eye color, skin color.. horn shapes etc.. can make a pretty decent player character model with what you have given us.
Her hair looks like a tattered cloak. Could you incorporate nature into her hair as well? Maybe it’s more vine-like?
She looks like a 14 year old with an attitude (please be sure to allow mature looks beyond just adding wrinkles or blemishes)
Please don’t make lip collagen injections a baseline thing in this world
The ears/antlers feel like a trope. Go all in or don’t. Make the ears the second set of antlers. Add a third. Or, if it’s supposed to fill the “elf niche” then take away the antlers and tone down the ears.
You’re hoping to break the mold with this game, but your characters are turning into the same old tropes
I do love what you’ve done with the skin, and that you didn’t go lazy by hiding the start of the antlers in the hair and instead gave them an organic starting point from the skin.
From a Cernunos/Satyr perspective, I dont personally have a problem with the concept except for two points.
1. Can this be made to look realistic rather than cartoonish ? If cartoonish, then this will be bad idea.
2. This is pushing the limits on what I would expect from a wood elf or any elf, and quite probably a step too far for some, purely out of a paradigm shift culture shock. However, given proviso 1 being satisfied, I think it is doable and adds artistic license and a unique angle for ashes.
So fundamentally, you will have the same problem with the Vek and probably tulnar (Renkai I think can be done). Realism vs cartoon characters.
I dont think a Roger Rabbot angle will work at all.
PS. You sent out a note asking for feedback. Breaking/closing that feeback request with 'new forum links' without updating the feedback request ? Not a good look.
I love this design! To echo a few others in this thread, I like the antlers/horns, and I like the nature/plant integrations - I’d like lots of options, of course, including bioluminescence, flowers, vines, etc. One person mentioned allowing them to have faun legs and hooves - I’d love it if that were a thing!
I don’t hate the way the ears look on the model, but I do kind of hope they’re not so protruding in the final iterations. They’re on the verge of looking like FFXIV elves, which I cannot stand due to their ears and their height (and the fact that it is impossible to make a male that isn’t ugly). Their ears look like a broom pole was rammed through their scull - very lazy design. I’d also like to say that I hope these can be as tall or short as humans, not locked into all being taller or all being shorter.
Until now, I was mostly leaning toward Nikua, but I love this concept and will be leaning into more details before making a decision. Overall, it’s a good problem to have!
The Py'Rai now look a lot more interesting than your average "Wood Elf" in any other MMORPG.
I love the branches growing out of their heads, great idea.
To those who've worked on this, I think you did a fantastic job, and I would love to see more creative things like this in Ashes of Creation. Keep it up!
I do feel like you're still being too safe with the design though, like the hair could be made out of leaves, and decorated with flowers. Think about a Weeping Willow Tree.
Overall, great, I just have one little issue, okay?
Eyebrows exist for a reason, and that is to keep our eyes clear of liquid, such as sweat or rain.
With how the eyebrows are currently designed, they are likely to partially fail at their job. I don't like that.
How about making the brow out of similar wood-like substance like the horns, and allow them to be covered in various kinds of mosses? I believe that could be incredibly interesting, and they are likely to do a pretty good job at being eyebrows.
If the design could consider that and potentially adjust in that direction, or have this as an option, I would absolutely love it.
Absolutely love the idea of flora hair. I think it would add greatly to the race, especially with the direction the art is already going into. I'm a huge fan of 'nature-ifying' these characters even further.
Has Intrepid changed direction with the Py'rai the wiki says Native American influence, I can't see that with the character model or the architecture.
My humble opinion the Py'rai base model should resemble an Native American with Wood elven facial features , they would adorn their hair, weapons with turquoise/silver and eagle feathers.
the racial mount can be a war buffalo .
My answerer for the question "how does a forest exist in the middle of the dessert"?
That's easy in all biomes where the Py'rai control nodes their architecture stays the same but the textures used to build their structures would have to match the materials that would have been gathered in the node ie Skins, wood etc.
I like the look of the new race. It's a nice opposite end of the spectrum to separate the two races. So why not push it a little further. If it were me and going this route I would make them extremely tall, around your average professional basketball player 6'4 and up. Going even further, as much as you and the team talk about seeing them from a distance, give them a VERY distinctive gait when the walk. Almost akin to striding rather than walking, lots of space between each stride. The horns and ears I don't mind at all as long as they're editable. Not a big fan of the bark on the cheek bones, the forehead is ok and it ties in with the antler type horns, the cheeks, not so much. Please get rid of the WOW brows, if you must keep them make them editable as well. I would also make them slightly less than medium to thin of build, not skinny but VERY well toned. Very curious to see what you do with their beards if they have any. Will they be mossy like Cyprus Spanish tree moss type beard or more like a fungus type beard? https://bayouwoman.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/spanish.moss_.30.jpg
Hope this helps, and can't wait to see these come to life!
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BergundMember, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I love the direction and agency Intrepid is taking with the Py’Rai elves. The branch antlers and skin / bark textures are SO cool and i even love the ear size.
To me, the Py’rai are the more “adolescent” / off the wall / INTENTIONALLY non-traditional elf compared to what I think we’re all hoping and expecting the classical / rigid / “mature” Empyrean elves will look like.
Seeing a male model is really the biggest deciding factor for my full opinion. I love what I’m seeing so far and I hope with sliders, many people can find the version of Py’rai that they’ll love for years and years.
She looks adorable! The bark/antlers make her have a sort of dryad feel to her. The ears do stick out too much (at least from that angle). Closer to the head would be preferred. Otherwise I think she's perfect.
I think you should give people the choice, however, regarding the bark skin and the horns - maybe have "beginner" horns as an option that look something like a skinny willow tree branch/leafage that blends in more with the hair so it doesn't look like horns/antlers, but leave all the current options there because I for one would definitely create a character like the image you posted.
Comments
I tend to agree with the 'toned down' part. Don't get me wrong I love both the Vek and the Py'Rai but they both are much more stylized and a bit less realistic looking than the other races. That aspect has been mentioned in the thread a few times already. Perhaps the answer is to go slightly less stylized on the Vek and Py'Rai, and slightly more on the other races and meet somewhere in the middle. They all look great and I don't believe wholesale change is needed....just need a little unification in the artistic direction overall.
I am hoping that there are some green tones that will be included as options for the skin color as well. And some good earthy browns to look like bark. I'm looking forward to seeing what options will be available for different tastes- And if things like flowers will be available on the horns, it would be nice if there's also options for leaves (preferably in both green and autumnal colors). Would be nice for those of us who want to lean heavier into the plant aesthetic.
Make like a Py'Rai and leave!
A lot of people are taking issue with the eyebrows. As long as they're adjustable, I feel like it'll be fine. It's a little too-WoW in the example given - but as long as they don't *have* to be that big, I feel like it's fine.
Same thing for the ears. Yours truly likes the big ears because any earrings will stand out more/be more visible.
I agree! the humans and dwarfs look more realistic, while the orcs and elf look more cartoon like.
They don’t look like they belong in the same game.
I believe the humans and dwarves are fully rendered, the orcs and elf are concept art. (The Dunir dwarf at least, I think the Nikua is still concept art.) That's the difference. I may be wrong, but I believe that was mentioned somewhere. (And I am having the darnedest time finding it.)
Again more customization options is always a good thing (unless it's immersion breaking ofc).
But, I love it!
They could be awesome with the right customization options.
The only thing I am not a fan of are the ears as shown in this particular example.
I hope they are customiazble enough to make them less 'noticable'.
Different kinds and 'heaviness' of the bark skin would also be appreciated.
Just change the skin color on a normal elf style. If their character creation customization is as detailed as they are boasting it should be easy to make your ideal character if all you want is a reskin of a standard elf.
I am so, so glad that the Pyrai aren't the typical wood elf design of "olive skinned elf with amber or green eyes and leaves in their hair". Anybody who thinks otherwise is a coward and is incorrect.
I hope that the Pyrai have three things that are a staple of their character design and cannot be removed and "humanified".
1) the ears
2) the horns
3) the 'bark skin'.
They should be fully customizable, but cannot be fully removed. If you want to play something with human features, play a human. If you want something with more traditional elf features, play empyrean.
You want the horns to be optional? Good, because they already are. You can just pick empyrean. You want the skin to be different? It can be (if you play a human). GTFO with complaining for every design decision that isn't a copy-paste of the Neverwinter designs.
Their Pyrai design says so much good about Intrepid's race design. I hope that they stick to their gut with this one. I think the unique design will make more people play pyrai as compared to a boring brown skin elf.
Rant over.
Anyway, I think that if they go all the way with the horn customization, the pyrai will be really cool. Imagine if you can model the horns like you can with BDO hair: choosing parts to bend, make longer, and make shorter. Give base options that have 'nodes' for more branches to come off of. You can then decide what grows off each of those branch nodes. push them in certain directions, make them longer or shorter. Give some really short options for people who dont like horns, and some huge options for people who want to go full moose.
I love the art direction for the Py'rai. It really took me by surprise and blew me away, and could actually be my first choice for main character. Overall, the ears were a bit much for me, but I love the horns and nature inspired color palette.
What are your thoughts on what was shown during the livestream for the Py'rai female concept?
Amazing job! I really love the initial viewing. I've seen some pushback on the horns from other players. I heard Steven mention horns being the defining feature of the race from a visual perspective. I'm not sure I understand the need for unique race silhouettes in PVP. So I don't personally understand the "need" for horns, even though I like them personally.
Are there any specific Character Creator customizations you would like to see for the Py'rai female concept?
I would like to see a larger variety of plant inspired customizations for Py'rai. It could be cool to introduce greener vine or plant fiber skin options, or maybe flowers/mushrooms scattered in the hair? So many great options from just a single image!
Overall the design is a cool fresh new take on a more naturesc race, great job! Its the antilope equivalent to WoWs spacegoats. But leaving it this animalistic and call it an elf at the same time is a bit of a stretch. I defo think you can keep the general direction, but don't make antlers and weird skin effects or ears mandatory. You could implement sliders that reduce these elements to a very minimal level, they don't need to disappear completely, but atleast give the option for a more traditional wood elfy druidy vibe. The less restrictive you are the more you will hype up ppl. Character creation is simply a sensitive and very important matter to many. and I quite frankly wouldn't care for 10 sliders that change the nose of a character to perfection if i can't get rid of the ear shape or the antlers. I never played demon hunter in WoW because they forced the fel demon aesthetic from Illidan on the class and I just found that to be super ugly, like especially the wings...
Don't take this class/race fantasy approach to extrem levels. We need a little bit of breathing room.
Apart from that, you guys are killing it!!!
I do love what you’ve done with the skin, and that you didn’t go lazy by hiding the start of the antlers in the hair and instead gave them an organic starting point from the skin.
1. Can this be made to look realistic rather than cartoonish ? If cartoonish, then this will be bad idea.
2. This is pushing the limits on what I would expect from a wood elf or any elf, and quite probably a step too far for some, purely out of a paradigm shift culture shock. However, given proviso 1 being satisfied, I think it is doable and adds artistic license and a unique angle for ashes.
So fundamentally, you will have the same problem with the Vek and probably tulnar (Renkai I think can be done). Realism vs cartoon characters.
I dont think a Roger Rabbot angle will work at all.
PS. You sent out a note asking for feedback. Breaking/closing that feeback request with 'new forum links' without updating the feedback request ? Not a good look.
I don’t hate the way the ears look on the model, but I do kind of hope they’re not so protruding in the final iterations. They’re on the verge of looking like FFXIV elves, which I cannot stand due to their ears and their height (and the fact that it is impossible to make a male that isn’t ugly). Their ears look like a broom pole was rammed through their scull - very lazy design. I’d also like to say that I hope these can be as tall or short as humans, not locked into all being taller or all being shorter.
Until now, I was mostly leaning toward Nikua, but I love this concept and will be leaning into more details before making a decision. Overall, it’s a good problem to have!
Absolutely love the idea of flora hair. I think it would add greatly to the race, especially with the direction the art is already going into. I'm a huge fan of 'nature-ifying' these characters even further.
My humble opinion the Py'rai base model should resemble an Native American with Wood elven facial features , they would adorn their hair, weapons with turquoise/silver and eagle feathers.
the racial mount can be a war buffalo .
My answerer for the question "how does a forest exist in the middle of the dessert"?
That's easy in all biomes where the Py'rai control nodes their architecture stays the same but the textures used to build their structures would have to match the materials that would have been gathered in the node ie Skins, wood etc.
File it and move on to other objectives!
https://bayouwoman.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/spanish.moss_.30.jpg
Hope this helps, and can't wait to see these come to life!
To me, the Py’rai are the more “adolescent” / off the wall / INTENTIONALLY non-traditional elf compared to what I think we’re all hoping and expecting the classical / rigid / “mature” Empyrean elves will look like.
Seeing a male model is really the biggest deciding factor for my full opinion. I love what I’m seeing so far and I hope with sliders, many people can find the version of Py’rai that they’ll love for years and years.
I think you should give people the choice, however, regarding the bark skin and the horns - maybe have "beginner" horns as an option that look something like a skinny willow tree branch/leafage that blends in more with the hair so it doesn't look like horns/antlers, but leave all the current options there because I for one would definitely create a character like the image you posted.