Me being a hardcore player i understand how things are and i even dont agree with a enhancement system destroying your gear. It is easy as hell for hardcore players to more selfishly think its better, because their sense of time is fine with progression lost since they can just throw 200 hours at it over a few more weeks.
Which is exactly why I said that imo this system (again, OE part, not enchantment overall) is meant for those who are already at the very top of progress. You either have a hard progress ceiling and lose players who want to constantly progress no matter the cost (a fairly small amount of people obviously) or you have OE fails destroying your gear, but position the very concept of OE as smth to do once you've done everything else, which will lose the people who dislike this system so much that they leave the game even w/o getting to the very top (also a small amount).
By destroying gear you are effectively giving players a reason to quit the game as well as NOT COME BACK to the game. Far different then simply just farming a end game boss and having a chance at loot. Because at the end of the day you can simply kill the boss again and not lose anything.
And that player could prepare for the risk and farm another copy of their gear. Or, what a twist, they could just not OE their gear. And as I said in my og post, you'd only get 1-3% for that OE step, so it's not like you'll suddenly become the strongest boi of all and just dominate the whole server solo. Especially if the OE requirements themselves are so rare that you'd have to get your whole guild working for your one chance at an OE.
The problem is not the system itself, it's the entitlement of people of all lvls of hardcoreness in wanting to experience every single piece of content in the game w/o any investments or risks. And Steven himself said that such people won't be able to experience everything, so it's not like my suggestion suddenly breaks the entire game's design.
This feels like someone who has been through the p2w OE cycle a few too many times. I mean, runescape doesn't have this system but you have BiS players still having a great time in end game. There is degradation of BiS items to balance the market but not even getting the use out of your item just because you know you have to keep going up and you decided to take this game's risk is heart breaking and game shattering. I don't think it would facilitate retention of players.
If you have a enhancing system that is only meant for super end game with destroyed gear, its simply there at the very end because its something that people won't like and will eventually make people quit. So that is a sign in itself if it needs to be almost hidden at the end its not a good sign
As a last point and just to make sure. You do know that there's basic safe level on vertical enchantment of gear AND horizontal enchantment for additional effects on gear, right? https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Enchanting
And then after those things you have the concept of over enchantment where you're trying to go even further, after having already enchanted your gear both horizontally and vertically. Everything I've said was about OE and in the context of you having already done all the things you wanted to do with your gear, which imo should also be on the rarer side (at least the vertical part).
All of that is fluff, my point is regardless of anything if you get to a point where your gear blows up and you no longer have any gear because it is gone and failed that it is bad. You can ask literarily anyone if they would want that and 95% of people will say that sounds terrible.
IF you have done everything but you can over enchant and it causes your weapon or armor to be gone it is bad. Only way that is viable is if it fails you can no longer over enchant on it and need a new weapon to get to the point to try again.
This feels like someone who has been through the p2w OE cycle a few too many times. I mean, runescape doesn't have this system but you have BiS players still having a great time in end game. There is degradation of BiS items to balance the market but not even getting the use out of your item just because you know you have to keep going up and you decided to take this game's risk is heart breaking and game shattering. I don't think it would facilitate retention of players.
Yes, I've played with this kind of system for ~12 years. Never p2wed it, but did fight against people who did. And I could still win against them due to OE giving them low benefits and being super pricey to get too high. Loved the system for all 12 years and whenever I wanted to go higher in power, I'd just prepare for it. Just like any person would have to, in a system that just requires you to spend days grinding something to get enough resources to go up by +1.
Imo it's not Intrepid's responsibility to think of all the people who don't think about the consequence of their actions, while wanting the results of said actions. If a person knows that there's a risk in OEing their gear and yet still goes with it w/o preparing a backup - that's on them. And if they leave the game because of that action - that's still on them.
And I want the system to be as expensive and rare as possible exactly to protect the people who would just throw themselves against the risk w/o thinking through it. But if you need to engage 20+ people from your guild to farm some stuff for the OE and then you need to use the best crafter in the guild (or server), all on top of having the best gear at your lvl of progress - that's a ton of barriers to overcome before risking your things, and at least several steps that can make you ask yourself "do I really want that 3% bonus in dmg?"
I understand that people dislike this kind of approach, and if Intrepid decides to go away from "risk vs reward" design when developing their enchantment - I'll be fine. I'll just hope that I'm wrong and that the game won't turn into "everyone has insane power lvl after a year of playing and now Intrepid has to account for that when designing the next expansion".
That sounds like a lot of work to protect people because its not a good designed idea. If you need to try to prevent people from doing it it isn't a good thing. That kind of risk with gear destruction is just gambling at the end of the day. With my idea it could easily be the same just throw more levels onto it and if you fail your gear is gone. But if you talk to anyone they will all say they don't like it.
Why are you so stuck on wanting gear to be destroyed?
Why exactly do you like this kind of system so i can fully understand. What is its benefits short form.
It holds back playerbase's power creep
It equalizes the overall power lvl of the server w/o introducing equalizing mechanics
It follows the "risk vs reward" design goal of Ashes
It's a very strong mat/gold sink for the strongest people on the server
It's a great indicator of status and personality. If you see a dude with some highly OEd gear, you'll know that he's either insane or the wealthiest strongest dude on the server, or both
It provides a near-endless treadmill for those who want it, w/o much devtime
It allows Intrepid to better pace their expansions' power creep, relating to both the mobs and the gear
Any type of enchantment system could be tuned to require the same average amount of time for a given result. Having a chance for an item to be destroyed doesn't necessarily slow power creep compared to a non-gambling system.
For example, let's say you have a Staff of Power that takes 20 hours to get. Furthermore, you're going to keep playing until you have a Staff of Power with the Mega Fire enchantment. It would probably take you much longer to obtain 100 hours worth of materials that give you a 100% chance of successfully enchanting your staff than 10 hours worth of materials that give you a 50% chance of enchanting the staff and a 50% chance of destroying it.
If we're going to have a gambling-style enchantment system, I'd prefer a high chance of losing enchanting materials over a low chance of losing an item. I get emotionally attached to items. "That belt is from the first time my guild successfully downed soandso..."
Any type of enchantment system could be tuned to require the same average amount of time for a given result. Having a chance for an item to be destroyed doesn't necessarily slow power creep compared to a non-gambling system.
If you have a 100% chance to OE smth and increase its power, sooner or later everyone will get to grow their power by some amount and now the next expansion will have to introduce gear and mobs that are stronger than the median power lvl of the game.
If you have a chance to break your gear when OEing it, only a fraction of the playerbase will be stronger than the base power lvl of that gear. And the new expansion can add gear that is on the same lvl as the top OEd old gear or just marginally better. And the new mobs can be just hard enough for those with OE gear, while quite a bit harder for those who're still at the base, which would make them go farm new gear. This way the power creep of the whole game is slower.
Destroying gear during OE also allows Intrepid to balance the gear upkeep costs in such a way where people would still want to use their top lvl gear w/o fearing that it'll decay too much and they won't have the resources to play with their shiniest toy.
Although, as I've suggested in my alternative enchanting system, you could go the opposite way and have enchanting increase the upkeep costs, but be completely safe and controlled. This way you'd keep a gear sink at the very top of progress lvls, while still allowing people to use their cool toys if they don't care about going higher in power lvl.
If we're going to have a gambling-style enchantment system, I'd prefer a high chance of losing enchanting materials over a low chance of losing an item. I get emotionally attached to items. "That belt is from the first time my guild successfully downed soandso..."
Yeah, and as I've said in this thread before, if the repair costs after a failed OE are the same as they would be if you had destroyed the item completely and had to rebuild it from the ground up - I'd be fine with that, because it would serve the same purpose.
Why exactly do you like this kind of system so i can fully understand. What is its benefits short form.
It holds back playerbase's power creep
It equalizes the overall power lvl of the server w/o introducing equalizing mechanics
It follows the "risk vs reward" design goal of Ashes
It's a very strong mat/gold sink for the strongest people on the server
It's a great indicator of status and personality. If you see a dude with some highly OEd gear, you'll know that he's either insane or the wealthiest strongest dude on the server, or both
It provides a near-endless treadmill for those who want it, w/o much devtime
It allows Intrepid to better pace their expansions' power creep, relating to both the mobs and the gear
Those are the main ones I could think of rn.
-There are plenty of other system you can put in place for power creep, I don believe rng blowing up your gear relays to just that.
-Equalizing mechanics don't really relate to blow up gear, you can just simply design the game around the points of players power there would really be no difference.
-Risk vrs reward should not come down solely to your gear blowing up and not having it anymore for early game, end game or super end game. You simply scale the rarity of the drops and make them impactful.
-Much better ways to do mat gold sink, and that would technically be such a small player base. If i hear that is causing a large gold sink I'd think there would be a lot of gambling going on with people constantly trying to over enhance on many pieces of gear. Making gear upgrades like a slot machine with people trying to enhance constantly like that toxic.
Having awesome gear does not relate to needing to make the game end game enhancing akin to a casino. With how i stated my idea on enhancement it would be exactly the same feeling.
Enhancement idea as well i had creates a very long treadmill as well, without risk of player base ending up quitting the game as more people get there. Gameplay should not be akin to infinite enhancing at the end of the day though it becomes very toxic.
Again with enhancing Intrepid can set the gear of strength however they want, they can go with enhancement systems without players having blowing up their gear and still create ways for players to have more sets of gear or having to enhance on new pieces for whatever reason.
I still don't see how giving players the opportunity to have no gear if they choose to blow things up hoping to get stronger, or having a system in place as a gold / mat sink though constantly gambling enhancing. There are so many other systems in place you can make with enhancement having all the points you mentioned without risking losing a player base as they all eventually get towards that point in the game.
Im guessing you played BDO? There are so many people i know that played bdo and quit the game and give themselves 0 reason to come back with blowing up every single piece of gear. You can say that is a bad choice etc, but it doesn't really matter at the end of the day its better to create system in place that don't cause people to create a reason to quit a game and not come back. There literarily is 0 benefit behind it. Elyon has a enhancement system where your gear blows up and that game is dead is is a pattern. It doesn't work and its a system often used to monetize and addict people to gambling in order to make money off people
I'd have to ask is it really is that you think its a good system or is it an addiction you have and you really want a game that gives you that kind of rush? Because many of your points can work in other system as well without gear blowing up.
There is nothing wrong with people getting top gear as well, with a system that is designed they should have a rough estimate when that is. Then you spend time making other sets for other kinds of content to be more flexible and effective against it. Eventually other players will catch up and that is completely fine imo.
I still don't see how giving players the opportunity to have no gear if they choose to blow things up hoping to get stronger, or having a system in place as a gold / mat sink though constantly gambling enhancing. There are so many other systems in place you can make with enhancement having all the points you mentioned without risking losing a player base as they all eventually get towards that point in the game.
And instead of coming up with several difference systems all you'd have to do is just have destruction on a failed OE and you can hit all the points I've listed. Ashes will already have a ton of intricate and self-dependent systems, so overcomplicating enchantment too could be too much for some people. Although, again, I've given an alternative system that achieves all the things I've listed w/o rng or destruction, so I know full well that it can be done. Which is exactly why I said it would be pointless to continue discussing these among ourselves because our views and preferences for this feature are just too different.
I'd have to ask is it really is that you think its a good system or is it an addiction you have and you really want a game that gives you that kind of rush? Because many of your points can work in other system as well without gear blowing up.
I've seen the full range of OE system setups and I consider the one I proposed here the most optimal and simplistic. And as I've said several times already, I'd be completely fine with any other system that achieves the same results that I've listed in the previous post. But if I had to choose, I'd go with what I know already works.
Aion had it quite good back in the day. Capped at +15. from 1-10 if you failed it went -1 but if you succeeded it could go +1 +2 +3 with one enchantment. Was quite rare to get a +3 proc. if you failed anywhere on the road from 10-15 it would reset to 10, but it would never go below 10 again. Sort of a safe haven for your item.
Granted the succesrate wasnt high from 14-15 maybe dont make enchanting a ragequitting experience by having it at the very least still be a 50% procrate.
I feel like every +1 you get should just increase your basic stats, like healthpoints, offensive, defensive.
And for other special effects maybe some runes in a special slot that provide stunresist, knockdown resist, increased movement speed etc.
The only mmo I've meaningfully played is Lineage 2.
I will gamble on Mag7 never having played Lineage 2 and therefore never having experienced its original over enchanting system.
A pattern i observed in this thread is that the majority of people have BDO's P2W over enchanting system as a terrible and traumatizing point of reference and basically never Lineage 2's.
I feel like every +1 you get should just increase your basic stats, like healthpoints, offensive, defensive.
And for other special effects maybe some runes in a special slot that provide stunresist, knockdown resist, increased movement speed etc.
And that exactly what's planned right now. Vertical and horizontal enchantment.
Not sure if this belongs under enchanting but now that I saw the weather systems video, I got an idea. How about some kind of resins that would maybe just change horizontal stats temporarily (5-10mins?).
Idea is you need to gather herbs etc during spring/summer to craft resins that winter mobs would be weak to and vice versa.
So if someone has ice element "enchants" you could use resin to convert some of it to fire for like 5-10 minutes. And if weapon has no elemental enchant it would just convert base % of damage to fire for example.
The only mmo I've meaningfully played is Lineage 2.
I will gamble on Mag7 never having played Lineage 2 and therefore never having experienced its original over enchanting system.
A pattern i observed in this thread is that the majority of people have BDO's P2W over enchanting system as a terrible and traumatizing point of reference and basically never Lineage 2's.
Nope i didn't play that game I did play BDO where all your gear can be blown up though. Pattern with all games wit gear blowing up is they are dead. Ashes of creation should e ashes of creation, it can have concepts from other games of course but it should be made in a way that will help not just survive but grow.
Sorry to say but linage 2 is old, that system does not need to be copied over into a new game so yo can live in it again. Clearly it isn't something people enjoy else previous games with that kind of stuff would have continued to flourish
Sorry to say but linage 2 is old, that system does not need to be copied over into a new game so yo can live in it again. Clearly it isn't something people enjoy else previous games with that kind of stuff would have continued to flourish
Nope i didn't play that game I did play BDO where all your gear can be blown up though. Pattern with all games wit gear blowing up is they are dead. Ashes of creation should e ashes of creation, it can have concepts from other games of course but it should be made in a way that will help not just survive but grow.
Sorry to say but linage 2 is old, that system does not need to be copied over into a new game so yo can live in it again. Clearly it isn't something people enjoy else previous games with that kind of stuff would have continued to flourish
Also, literally the same could be said about pvp in Ashes. Or "risk vs reward" design. Or "there won't be only winners in Ashes" design. Or "flying mounts are only for the top ~10-20 people on the whole server of over 10k people" design. Or "instances will only comprise 20% of content and will mainly be story-based" design. And I'm sure there's more design choices taken from older games that will definitely not fly with quite a few people in the "current gen of gamers" crowd. Yet here we are, interested in a game with such designs. Funny how that is.
Also there should be more emphasis on finding gear over just enhancing a piece of gear forever without any feeling of discovery. In my post what I mention is not a very complicated system.
Unsure in linage how close it si to BDO when it comes to just having the same weapons and enhancing or you can find cool rare stuff and enhance that instead,
Also there should be more emphasis on finding gear over just enhancing a piece of gear forever without any feeling of discovery.
Its been said that top level crafted gear will be on par with top level found gear. To make crafting important throughout the game. So if you want to focus on the discovery thats a choice given to you. But seaking out the correct smiths will be a faster and easier way to get the exact gear you want
Sorry to say but linage 2 is old, that system does not need to be copied over into a new game so yo can live in it again. Clearly it isn't something people enjoy else previous games with that kind of stuff would have continued to flourish
Nice meme, but a good reason games can die is because people live on nostalgia and they want things to be exactly as they were with the older game they played. Fastest way to kill a game, when regardless of the difference enhancement systems where it leads as already been shown to the most toxic of levels. And the verdict is the opinion is people hate it when there is any point where gear is blown up.
As far as pvp is concerned all the plans and idea are great and will be worked in, there is nothing wrong with creating a fun pvp experience as well as having system in place to prevent greifing as they will test and work on.
WHAT I am talking about is not have nostalgia ruin a game with people thinking to it be cool if your gear blows up. No no one ever things that this si just the reality, you can create very interesting, long term and hardcore systems without having the feature in that will eventually cause people to quit as has been seen over 8 years of content between other mmorpgs it does not work.
The same kind of nostalgia that has people making pantheon rise of the fallen, that looks like some of the worst most boring combat I've ever seen. Because people want things to be the same as the old ways with tab target.
Also there should be more emphasis on finding gear over just enhancing a piece of gear forever without any feeling of discovery. In my post what I mention is not a very complicated system.
And if new gear acquisition is easier/faster than OEing gear (which I'm suggesting it is), then you can still find your unique stuff and be happy about it. And then you can OE that unique stuff and be super powerful too.
Unsure in linage how close it si to BDO when it comes to just having the same weapons and enhancing or you can find cool rare stuff and enhance that instead.
L2's gear system was very straightforward because that served the functionality of the game overall.
Also there should be more emphasis on finding gear over just enhancing a piece of gear forever without any feeling of discovery.
Its been said that top level crafted gear will be on par with top level found gear. To make crafting important throughout the game. So if you want to focus on the discovery thats a choice given to you. But seaking out the correct smiths will be a faster and easier way to get the exact gear you want
And i think that is great, so I'm really hoping there is a lot of discovery when it comes to alternate gear.
The same kind of nostalgia that has people making pantheon rise of the fallen, that looks like some of the worst most boring combat I've ever seen. Because people want things to be the same as the old ways with tab target.
Again though, we're on a forum for a game that's based on its Lead Director's nostalgia for the better times. I find this critique of the OE system quite a bit ironic.
There's been quite a few people that yell about pvp killing the game as loud as you're yelling about OE destruction doing the same.
Or all the time-casual people begging for a crumb of content that appeals to their difficult life with 30 kids and 10 wives.
It's all just a personal preference of one Dude (pun intended), who had enough money to make his nostalgia a reality. Of course he might change his mind under the pressure of the masses, but we'll have to see about that when we come to it.
WHAT I am talking about is not have nostalgia ruin a game with people thinking to it be cool if your gear blows up. No no one ever things that this si just the reality, you can create very interesting, long term and hardcore systems without having the feature in that will eventually cause people to quit as has been seen over 8 years of content between other mmorpgs it does not work.
Over enchanting with a destruction risk. is fun in my opinion. And works in a system with true uniqe items, and helps over all balance. If some gear is too powerful, some uniqe drops too OP the ability to over enchant lets you compete with it. And the temptation to over enchant something op lets there be a risky way to lose that equipment. Item destruction in general helps a working economy. And all gear degrades as ots used to begin with, you wont have the same sword throught the game without constantly repairing it, and i would like a cap to be placed on how much an item can be repaired.
In the over arching systems in ashes, item destruction needs to happen a certain amount to begin with.
The same kind of nostalgia that has people making pantheon rise of the fallen, that looks like some of the worst most boring combat I've ever seen. Because people want things to be the same as the old ways with tab target.
Again though, we're on a forum for a game that's based on its Lead Director's nostalgia for the better times. I find this critique of the OE system quite a bit ironic.
There's been quite a few people that yell about pvp killing the game as loud as you're yelling about OE destruction doing the same.
Or all the time-casual people begging for a crumb of content that appeals to their difficult life with 30 kids and 10 wives.
It's all just a personal preference of one Dude (pun intended), who had enough money to make his nostalgia a reality. Of course he might change his mind under the pressure of the masses, but we'll have to see about that when we come to it.
Better times does not mean copying over an exact system, or it is nostalgia for simply one feature over if it is something out is out dated or their designed come up with a more engaging and fun one.
I literately see what you are doing that is why there needs to be actually hardcore pvpers, that have experience playing almost every mmo that has been released to keep nostalgia in check. Open world PvPing and gear destruction are two completely different things that you can not compare. For the very fact you can make a hardcore complex enhancement system that is not casual friendly and still won't have gear destruction.
Please don't try to sum up my notion that gear destruction is bad to a game as being casual. Gear destruction is bad all around for casual, and hardcore players. It is really simple people that will blow their crap up for whatever reasons will not have a reason to come back. People will be turned off wanting it as they have seen those systems in the past.
If you think linage 2 was the best system in the world and much better than the other enhancement systems that might be true to you. But people have been able to experience, see and hear if you looked into other games and people really dislike it. Forcing it down in the worst way by including gear destruction does no benefit for the game.
Your points for wanting it are simply because of nostalgia over any good fact that will further the game in design. I'd much rather hear your own unique approach to it, that does not involve gear destruction, maybe takes some things from linage 2 of course but has your own unique spin on it.
WHAT I am talking about is not have nostalgia ruin a game with people thinking to it be cool if your gear blows up. No no one ever things that this si just the reality, you can create very interesting, long term and hardcore systems without having the feature in that will eventually cause people to quit as has been seen over 8 years of content between other mmorpgs it does not work.
Over enchanting with a destruction risk. is fun in my opinion. And works in a system with true uniqe items, and helps over all balance. If some gear is too powerful, some uniqe drops too OP the ability to over enchant lets you compete with it. And the temptation to over enchant something op lets there be a risky way to lose that equipment. Item destruction in general helps a working economy. And all gear degrades as ots used to begin with, you wont have the same sword throught the game without constantly repairing it, and i would like a cap to be placed on how much an item can be repaired.
In the over arching systems in ashes, item destruction needs to happen a certain amount to begin with.
Gambling is a fun kind of thing, people love watching it on streams when people do that kind of stuff. But its like the outside is really appealing gold and shiny and then you see what happens in game and long term affects and realize it becomes a issue, maybe not a month but many months down the line. And people completely hate or love it based on their rng, people quit over it, People lose the reason to pick up their sub again because they know they lost half their gear, etc.
It took lost ark even less time since more people could get to certain stages in enhancements more quickly. The moment people reach the peak and start to enhance you will see the nature on how people feel about that point in the game and its affects.
It is a hard thing to test because you need people to have a monetary incentive and a good amount of time to play the game to see how they feel about it. This discussion is great though I feel if a system does come out where they are trying to test it and show gear destruction that voice will be as loud and clear on it than I ever could.
Comments
This feels like someone who has been through the p2w OE cycle a few too many times. I mean, runescape doesn't have this system but you have BiS players still having a great time in end game. There is degradation of BiS items to balance the market but not even getting the use out of your item just because you know you have to keep going up and you decided to take this game's risk is heart breaking and game shattering. I don't think it would facilitate retention of players.
All of that is fluff, my point is regardless of anything if you get to a point where your gear blows up and you no longer have any gear because it is gone and failed that it is bad. You can ask literarily anyone if they would want that and 95% of people will say that sounds terrible.
IF you have done everything but you can over enchant and it causes your weapon or armor to be gone it is bad. Only way that is viable is if it fails you can no longer over enchant on it and need a new weapon to get to the point to try again.
Imo it's not Intrepid's responsibility to think of all the people who don't think about the consequence of their actions, while wanting the results of said actions. If a person knows that there's a risk in OEing their gear and yet still goes with it w/o preparing a backup - that's on them. And if they leave the game because of that action - that's still on them.
And I want the system to be as expensive and rare as possible exactly to protect the people who would just throw themselves against the risk w/o thinking through it. But if you need to engage 20+ people from your guild to farm some stuff for the OE and then you need to use the best crafter in the guild (or server), all on top of having the best gear at your lvl of progress - that's a ton of barriers to overcome before risking your things, and at least several steps that can make you ask yourself "do I really want that 3% bonus in dmg?"
I understand that people dislike this kind of approach, and if Intrepid decides to go away from "risk vs reward" design when developing their enchantment - I'll be fine. I'll just hope that I'm wrong and that the game won't turn into "everyone has insane power lvl after a year of playing and now Intrepid has to account for that when designing the next expansion".
Why are you so stuck on wanting gear to be destroyed?
Why exactly do you like this kind of system so i can fully understand. What is its benefits short form.
Those are the main ones I could think of rn.
For example, let's say you have a Staff of Power that takes 20 hours to get. Furthermore, you're going to keep playing until you have a Staff of Power with the Mega Fire enchantment. It would probably take you much longer to obtain 100 hours worth of materials that give you a 100% chance of successfully enchanting your staff than 10 hours worth of materials that give you a 50% chance of enchanting the staff and a 50% chance of destroying it.
If you have a chance to break your gear when OEing it, only a fraction of the playerbase will be stronger than the base power lvl of that gear. And the new expansion can add gear that is on the same lvl as the top OEd old gear or just marginally better. And the new mobs can be just hard enough for those with OE gear, while quite a bit harder for those who're still at the base, which would make them go farm new gear. This way the power creep of the whole game is slower.
Destroying gear during OE also allows Intrepid to balance the gear upkeep costs in such a way where people would still want to use their top lvl gear w/o fearing that it'll decay too much and they won't have the resources to play with their shiniest toy.
Although, as I've suggested in my alternative enchanting system, you could go the opposite way and have enchanting increase the upkeep costs, but be completely safe and controlled. This way you'd keep a gear sink at the very top of progress lvls, while still allowing people to use their cool toys if they don't care about going higher in power lvl.
-There are plenty of other system you can put in place for power creep, I don believe rng blowing up your gear relays to just that.
-Equalizing mechanics don't really relate to blow up gear, you can just simply design the game around the points of players power there would really be no difference.
-Risk vrs reward should not come down solely to your gear blowing up and not having it anymore for early game, end game or super end game. You simply scale the rarity of the drops and make them impactful.
-Much better ways to do mat gold sink, and that would technically be such a small player base. If i hear that is causing a large gold sink I'd think there would be a lot of gambling going on with people constantly trying to over enhance on many pieces of gear. Making gear upgrades like a slot machine with people trying to enhance constantly like that toxic.
Having awesome gear does not relate to needing to make the game end game enhancing akin to a casino. With how i stated my idea on enhancement it would be exactly the same feeling.
Enhancement idea as well i had creates a very long treadmill as well, without risk of player base ending up quitting the game as more people get there. Gameplay should not be akin to infinite enhancing at the end of the day though it becomes very toxic.
Again with enhancing Intrepid can set the gear of strength however they want, they can go with enhancement systems without players having blowing up their gear and still create ways for players to have more sets of gear or having to enhance on new pieces for whatever reason.
I still don't see how giving players the opportunity to have no gear if they choose to blow things up hoping to get stronger, or having a system in place as a gold / mat sink though constantly gambling enhancing. There are so many other systems in place you can make with enhancement having all the points you mentioned without risking losing a player base as they all eventually get towards that point in the game.
Im guessing you played BDO? There are so many people i know that played bdo and quit the game and give themselves 0 reason to come back with blowing up every single piece of gear. You can say that is a bad choice etc, but it doesn't really matter at the end of the day its better to create system in place that don't cause people to create a reason to quit a game and not come back. There literarily is 0 benefit behind it. Elyon has a enhancement system where your gear blows up and that game is dead is is a pattern. It doesn't work and its a system often used to monetize and addict people to gambling in order to make money off people
I'd have to ask is it really is that you think its a good system or is it an addiction you have and you really want a game that gives you that kind of rush? Because many of your points can work in other system as well without gear blowing up.
Granted the succesrate wasnt high from 14-15 maybe dont make enchanting a ragequitting experience by having it at the very least still be a 50% procrate.
I feel like every +1 you get should just increase your basic stats, like healthpoints, offensive, defensive.
And for other special effects maybe some runes in a special slot that provide stunresist, knockdown resist, increased movement speed etc.
I will gamble on Mag7 never having played Lineage 2 and therefore never having experienced its original over enchanting system.
A pattern i observed in this thread is that the majority of people have BDO's P2W over enchanting system as a terrible and traumatizing point of reference and basically never Lineage 2's.
Aren't we all sinners?
Idea is you need to gather herbs etc during spring/summer to craft resins that winter mobs would be weak to and vice versa.
So if someone has ice element "enchants" you could use resin to convert some of it to fire for like 5-10 minutes. And if weapon has no elemental enchant it would just convert base % of damage to fire for example.
Nope i didn't play that game I did play BDO where all your gear can be blown up though. Pattern with all games wit gear blowing up is they are dead. Ashes of creation should e ashes of creation, it can have concepts from other games of course but it should be made in a way that will help not just survive but grow.
Sorry to say but linage 2 is old, that system does not need to be copied over into a new game so yo can live in it again. Clearly it isn't something people enjoy else previous games with that kind of stuff would have continued to flourish
Unsure in linage how close it si to BDO when it comes to just having the same weapons and enhancing or you can find cool rare stuff and enhance that instead,
Its been said that top level crafted gear will be on par with top level found gear. To make crafting important throughout the game. So if you want to focus on the discovery thats a choice given to you. But seaking out the correct smiths will be a faster and easier way to get the exact gear you want
Nice meme, but a good reason games can die is because people live on nostalgia and they want things to be exactly as they were with the older game they played. Fastest way to kill a game, when regardless of the difference enhancement systems where it leads as already been shown to the most toxic of levels. And the verdict is the opinion is people hate it when there is any point where gear is blown up.
As far as pvp is concerned all the plans and idea are great and will be worked in, there is nothing wrong with creating a fun pvp experience as well as having system in place to prevent greifing as they will test and work on.
WHAT I am talking about is not have nostalgia ruin a game with people thinking to it be cool if your gear blows up. No no one ever things that this si just the reality, you can create very interesting, long term and hardcore systems without having the feature in that will eventually cause people to quit as has been seen over 8 years of content between other mmorpgs it does not work.
The same kind of nostalgia that has people making pantheon rise of the fallen, that looks like some of the worst most boring combat I've ever seen. Because people want things to be the same as the old ways with tab target.
And i think that is great, so I'm really hoping there is a lot of discovery when it comes to alternate gear.
There's been quite a few people that yell about pvp killing the game as loud as you're yelling about OE destruction doing the same.
Or all the time-casual people begging for a crumb of content that appeals to their difficult life with 30 kids and 10 wives.
It's all just a personal preference of one Dude (pun intended), who had enough money to make his nostalgia a reality. Of course he might change his mind under the pressure of the masses, but we'll have to see about that when we come to it.
Over enchanting with a destruction risk. is fun in my opinion. And works in a system with true uniqe items, and helps over all balance. If some gear is too powerful, some uniqe drops too OP the ability to over enchant lets you compete with it. And the temptation to over enchant something op lets there be a risky way to lose that equipment. Item destruction in general helps a working economy. And all gear degrades as ots used to begin with, you wont have the same sword throught the game without constantly repairing it, and i would like a cap to be placed on how much an item can be repaired.
In the over arching systems in ashes, item destruction needs to happen a certain amount to begin with.
Better times does not mean copying over an exact system, or it is nostalgia for simply one feature over if it is something out is out dated or their designed come up with a more engaging and fun one.
I literately see what you are doing that is why there needs to be actually hardcore pvpers, that have experience playing almost every mmo that has been released to keep nostalgia in check. Open world PvPing and gear destruction are two completely different things that you can not compare. For the very fact you can make a hardcore complex enhancement system that is not casual friendly and still won't have gear destruction.
Please don't try to sum up my notion that gear destruction is bad to a game as being casual. Gear destruction is bad all around for casual, and hardcore players. It is really simple people that will blow their crap up for whatever reasons will not have a reason to come back. People will be turned off wanting it as they have seen those systems in the past.
If you think linage 2 was the best system in the world and much better than the other enhancement systems that might be true to you. But people have been able to experience, see and hear if you looked into other games and people really dislike it. Forcing it down in the worst way by including gear destruction does no benefit for the game.
Your points for wanting it are simply because of nostalgia over any good fact that will further the game in design. I'd much rather hear your own unique approach to it, that does not involve gear destruction, maybe takes some things from linage 2 of course but has your own unique spin on it.
Gambling is a fun kind of thing, people love watching it on streams when people do that kind of stuff. But its like the outside is really appealing gold and shiny and then you see what happens in game and long term affects and realize it becomes a issue, maybe not a month but many months down the line. And people completely hate or love it based on their rng, people quit over it, People lose the reason to pick up their sub again because they know they lost half their gear, etc.
It took lost ark even less time since more people could get to certain stages in enhancements more quickly. The moment people reach the peak and start to enhance you will see the nature on how people feel about that point in the game and its affects.
It is a hard thing to test because you need people to have a monetary incentive and a good amount of time to play the game to see how they feel about it. This discussion is great though I feel if a system does come out where they are trying to test it and show gear destruction that voice will be as loud and clear on it than I ever could.