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Here is how you make people like your Combat

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Comments

  • LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Azherae wrote: »
    The entire concept was 'If you market to more people than are going to actually like your game, you are going to have a bad time'.

    But that's the thing, I agree with that concept, still I'm not asking for Intrepid to do anything different than what they are already doing.

    We are not even in Alpha 2 and everyone can go watch the character creator/seasons showcase and see the amount of effort they put into making it Look good.

    Steven said they want to do the same with their combat reveal, the entire concept of my post is an easy way they can do that.


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  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Liniker wrote: »
    Steven said they want to do the same with their combat reveal, the entire concept of my post is an easy way they can do that.
    The kind of people that generally play MMO's will either totally ignore camera shaking, or be put right off by it.

    If the idea Intrepid have is to market the game to people that are likely to stick to the game, camera shaking is simply not the way to go.

    MMO players as a whole have always preferred substance over flash.

    Also, going back to;
    Liniker wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    Another argument I didnt make. Homest question - do you have issues with reading comprehension?
    Noaani wrote: »
    Look at Bless. The game was perfectly fine for a small subsection of the MMO community. However, they tried to market it to the entire community.

    This is why I pay my internet :D You literally said Bless was perfectly fine up until they started doing marketing. That's one of the funniest things I've heard in a while.
    It would seem the answer is issues with reading comprehension.

    What you are suggesting is a this/then statement. You are suggesting that I said the game was fine at release, but THEN marketing ruined it. This is the only way in which the game could be considered perfectly fine up until {what ever point you want to state}.

    However, that isn't what I said. I said the game itself was fine for a specific subset of players, but the marketing ruined it before it was even released. There is no this/then relationship in that, both the game being fine for that subsection of players and the game being ruined by marketing were happening at the same time.

    As such, the notion that "Bless was perfectly fine up until" is simply not at all what I said. You are distinguishing between fine/not fine with time, while I was very clearly and very specifically distinguishing with demographics.
  • NishUKNishUK Member
    edited June 2022
    @Liniker holy crap it's hard to read this threads replies with how many butt hurt and "traditional relics" there are here.

    What the hell have you done :neutral:
    Merek wrote: »
    While I enjoyed the feel of BDO compared to other MMO's currently on the market, one thing people seem to miss is that BDO doesn't have proper visual skill progression. Every attack is seizure inducing, for no reason. A standard attack shouldn't have some crazy space-rending effect attached to it. But this is part of the games background, Eastern MMO's love their grandiose effects for no reason, I don't. Visual progression and feedback should have meaning, BDO's doesn't.

    Ok, so you want to tell a dev something along the lines of this:

    "Excuse me! I need a dial on system settings because my character is just too cool, I chose to end the life of dog sized insect in the woods but my character looks like it could split a pretty cool burning line in the grass and that's unacceptable! I merely just wanted to shoot my arrow with the wind completely still and we me bumbling around with getting the bow out at the first place and my character having a bit of a chuckle because he's a buffoon and then I'll have this warm fuzzy feeling that I'm actually in this world :) "

    Like, it's so bizarre...just imagine you're the protagonist blessed with talent, you played BDO to get some kind of RP fantasy or even a comedy? It's astonishing me really, there is plenty to take the piss out, in lots of mmo's in regards to systems and especially something like BDO's later progression systems but what you're going on about is just like...a complete waste of brain power to even be frustrated about.

    I've also got the meta reply for losers without a real opinion on BDO: "BDO is terrible! camera shake suuuucks!!".
  • akabearakabear Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    CROW3 wrote: »
    Liniker wrote: »
    I'm confused... do you seriously believe a company would refrain from doing marketing and appealing to a wider public due to fear of not having a good player retention...?

    hmm..
    • Strong marketing too early with a product that is still way off can do far more harm than good.
    • Soft marketting has already obtained sufficent to float the project.
    • Contined soft marketing has provided support to that initial float.
    • I would imagine with the total numbers supporting and with estimated funds mostly invested, then the draw down leaves a good to have but not required wain for more funding.
    • And therefore the hard marketting can wait and ramp when an end date is reasonably certain.
  • PenguinPaladinPenguinPaladin Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Liniker wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    As others have hinted at, it isnt in an MMORPG's best interest to just try and mass market to everyone. A game like Ashes needs to market to people that are likely to enjoy playing Ashes.

    That makes no sense at all, every single company wants as many people interested in their product as possible - and if intrepid didn't want to appeal to the general public, they wouldn't be trying to make their character art and environments, as well as combat look good this early on, Steven himself said the combat reveal will be a big reveal and he wants people to have a good impression. The character creator and weather systems are proof as they want to impress people with the looks as well as the content, and for that, the point I made is still valid.

    I honestly think this is a mistake on intrepid's maketing team, and steven. Steven really wants to show off the meaningful parts of the development. He wants to get people excited for his dream game coming to life. And balancing the hype train and the transparent development process is going to have a good amount of players eyes glaze over... honestly, the weather system, the combat, nodes once the system is complet and working to max level nodes... they should comment that they have these systems working. Make it known when these parts of development are finished. But hold off on a feature display until the game is closer to an actual release....... i think alpha 2 being the first display of all these systems would be fine. And would generate hype and snag peoples attention. It would be a massive attention grab to just open alpha 2 and release 10 videos overviewing all these working systems around the same time. And the game would be closer to an actual release to keep the hype more relevant. Honestly, the monthy live streams should be boring. It should be a 10 minute development update discussing whats working and whats not. followed by a brief Q&A.
  • PenguinPaladinPenguinPaladin Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Noaani wrote: »

    I expect Ashes to have about a million players at launch, and settle at around 250 - 300k by the end of the first year. I would consider this a successful and fairly health launch.

    If the game mass markets and I stead attracts 5 million players at launch and then still drops down to that same 250 - 300k after a year, it would be a disaster.

    Ashes is going to have a very hard time at launch. Losing player population on a server, and needing to do server merges will really mess with this game. Resteting nodes. Reseting player houses. Reseting content. And probably the biggest challenge mmo's have today is surviving their initial start, and watching until they can see their actual retained player base. I cant quote, but ive seen a bit about intrepid having a hard cap to servers on launch day. And the thought sucks to have bought a subscription and then when it comes to making a character, ever server is full and you just cant play, and you have to wait until some of the players that everyone knows wont play more than a few days or weeks leave. But for ashes, not bloating the amount of servers, to reduce the chance of having to do a hard reset/merge just a few months after release might be a must.
  • LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Liniker wrote: »

    - add good looking epic camera and particle effects
    - add big camera shaking effect on hits specially on big damage spells
    - add brutal sound effects and snappy animations to go along with camera shake/effects
    Noaani wrote: »
    Feel free to ping me when Intrepid release a video for Ashes that has camera work that is not representative of what will be in game, and start adding camera shakes.

    @Noaani so... they literally just did exactly everything I suggested in this post...... impactful camera effects, a bit of camera shake, audio and snappy animations, and they even took it further going for a fast paced combat, and guess what? people are saying its great even tho they have no idea how it feels just as I said they would.... LOL guess you were wrong my friend.





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  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    edited July 2022
    Liniker wrote: »
    Noaani so... they literally just did exactly everything I suggested in this post...... impactful camera effects, a bit of camera shake, audio and snappy animations, and they even took it further going for a fast paced combat, and guess what? people are saying its great even tho they have no idea how it feels just as I said they would.... LOL guess you were wrong my friend.
    I'm not sure what you are talking about - or, not sure that you know what you are talking about.

    You specifically said they should add big camera shake effects. I specifically said they should not add big camera shake effects. The camera shake effect on the video (I've not seen the whole thing, and so have only seen one) was so small that it didn't affect about 2/3 of the screen at all.

    I mean, if that is what you want to call a big camera shake, have at it.

    Further to that, my point was also that they will not release a video of Ashes combat that is from any perspective other than that of a player - a players camera controls being the most important aspect there. The video released was absolutely from the perspective of a player - and indeed had very small camera shakes.
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