And once these small temp guilds arise, you'll have a whole fleet of random, not at cap solo guilds with the buffs you may want as a solo player
That works mechanically, but it feels awkward. I'd prefer guild benefits to be guild-oriented. For example, it would make sense if incoming heals from fellow guild members were more effective. That would symbolize the benefits of familiarity. There are lots of design options.
Simply improving the stats of people who belong to guilds is lame. It also invites gaming of the system by forming several small guilds for maximum stat benefits and organizing their activities using third party apps.
And once these small temp guilds arise, you'll have a whole fleet of random, not at cap solo guilds with the buffs you may want as a solo player
That works mechanically, but it feels awkward. I'd prefer guild benefits to be guild-oriented. For example, it would make sense if incoming heals from fellow guild members were more effective. That would symbolize the benefits of familiarity. There are lots of design options.
Unfortunately thats what making a game is... its designing mechanics, and those mechanics are always at the will of the players to be abused.
However.
Crafting guilds getting buffs towards crafting, will be selective on who they let in because they want to keep their profit to themselves.
Combat focused guilds are only as profitable as the valubles they are after or protecting.
Gathering guilds, will need protection.
When we talk about how something feels, for you to say heals comming from a guild member makes since.... what if that healer joined the guild 5 minutes ago? Why does he get the bonus healing.......?
We are discussing mechanics. Now should they feel appropriate, yes. Should guildpoints have a place to go to accomplish feeling like you have a since of community among your guild, yes. But this feeling cones from everywhere....
Buffs for protecting caravans, gives you a sense that your team is damn good at what they do.
Buffs for crafting helps you feel like your crafts are something special. And your community helps you make a final product.
And buffs for gathering makes you feel like you're valued on the front line, even if you arent the best fighter out there, because your the one who can get what we need.
Buffs that only help if you're doing only guild affiliated team stuff might feel like, wooo, we're doing so well because we're a team. But it seperates you into groups who wont play together unless forced, because my team only works best together
Also i imagine joining and leaving a guild shouldnt be a simple process... to avoid people hoping between guilds for buffs just whenever
Simply improving the stats of people who belong to guilds is lame. It also invites gaming of the system by forming several small guilds for maximum stat benefits and organizing their activities using third party apps.
And focusing on this, yes. That is the system. Instead of having huge guilds have several small ones. But that in itself is balancing. Several small guilds have to worry about friendly fire, where large guilds cant hit one another. And so on... there is a trade off of being easily cohesive, and being more powerful. That is the whole concept of the guild system, and its choices of specialization or amount of members
As well as guild politics...... people arent robots. If the gathering guild that fuels your crafting guild get unhappy with you, it causes problems. If your combat guild hasnt won for a while and cant afford to buy the gear being made by your crafting guild.... issues. Loyalty changes. And forcing smaller guilds allows for that game to be played.
But its still player choice with this guild system, and thats the major thing. Instead of forcing guilds to be 20-50 members and making them specialize. They are saying, go ahead. Have your thousand man guild. Its fine, even if its not the best way to do things
I also want to mention that this is good for the "meta"
The fastest way to grow out of the gate is going to be more and more members. So people who decide to sacrifice ease of transition of power, are going to be going for world record achievements, and making member count over specialization guilds. And this will help the games launch as after a certain amount of time these massive guilds who already fought over "world firsts" will want to break up, into smaller more specialized guilds. Allowing the more casual players who have already been leveling a specialized guild have a "head start" against the breaking up guilds all going into level one subguilds
I dont see why 15 "solo" players couldnt meet up. Talk about how they want to do their own thing, but also need some of the guild passive buffs. And then come together, make a mutual guild thats only there to level the guild up enough for their wanted buffs, and then go their own way. And once these small temp guilds arise, you'll have a whole fleet of random, not at cap solo guilds with the buffs you may want as a solo player, so just try and make some loose friends and join one that fits your play style....
The OP is not about guild buffs though - as far as I can tell.
The conerns of the OP is about how to determine you even want to group with 14 strangers when you don't know how proficient they are in combat. You all are mercenaries from different places far across the globe.
You like to group temproarily but do not like stick near the same Node and do not like to be pressured to meet guild obligations.
How do you convince strangers that you are worthy to join their group? That's the OP concern.
Ashes has features for that - the OP just didn't know about them.
Again, don't let the term solo trigger you into misunderstanding the actual concern.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
In 2022 it's hard for guilds to recruit 300 difficult players, so it's become normal practice to recruit packs of solo players who are given minimal tasks, or even left for the masses, and I see no problem for these solo players who whine here about not wanting to join a guild, just join some of these guilds just for the masses, and enjoy all the guild buffs, which by the way are not easy to get, and you(crying solo players) get them for nothing.
How annoying are these threads on the forums, and especially the people who create them. Finally there was a project where the guild is not just a sham just to have one more chat as in WoW, and immediately got out these people who are starting to whine that's why I'm not in the same conditions as the players who play in the guild...
I dont see why 15 "solo" players couldnt meet up. Talk about how they want to do their own thing, but also need some of the guild passive buffs. And then come together, make a mutual guild thats only there to level the guild up enough for their wanted buffs, and then go their own way. And once these small temp guilds arise, you'll have a whole fleet of random, not at cap solo guilds with the buffs you may want as a solo player, so just try and make some loose friends and join one that fits your play style....
The OP is not about guild buffs though - as far as I can tell.
The conerns of the OP is about how to determine you even want to group with 14 strangers when you don't know how proficient they are in combat. You all are mercenaries from different places far across the globe.
How do you do anything without knowing anything? Unfortunately you will have to learn... the op is talking about working as a mercenary. Being hired by clients to do a job. How does he know who to let hire him? How does the helpless babe do anything?
You interact with people, imagine that.... maybe one of the group you worked with as a solo player you.... liked... and were loose friends with..... and so you talked with then and made a guild...
The main problem the OP has stated, not in the original post, is that guild expect you to do tasks for them in return. And im saying that a loose guild of friends would not have that problem to begin with, and you could act on your own in one of those..... ive had a guild like this on every mmo ive played. Ive never joined a "large, or overly competitive guild" for the same reasons of the OP. But now it just seems like the term guild. It being a guild. Makes it bad.
Why would they make guilds less important? Guilds have 2 factors whatever the buff they are given. Second a group of players that can mesh or have a goal together and play with one another.
If you want to make a group that you have no attachment to join a guild with that same idea, or just use world chat or whatever they have in game that helps you find a group every time you need one which is most cases is more work but not that hard.
To offer fun also to people who want to play solo. An MMO has to try to accommodate many people with different play styles.
How is a solo player not having fun?
When he cannot level up, get gear, get resources, defend caravan, complete story, defeat bosses in dungeons... without being in a guild.
Some people want to have a loose interaction with others for whatever reasons. Maybe they do not want to give anything in exchange of receiving help. Or they do not want to chat or have agreements to meet online for some events. Maybe they are introverts.
No content is locked out if you are not in a guild............. so there is nothing to debait on that topic. Now will it be more difficult to find people to play with, probably. Will it be more difficult to accomplish specific goals solo? Probably. Are you forced into not being able to try and do that? No. So if its hard, im sorry, but you are the one forcing these rules on yourself.
Are you forced into not being able to try and do that? No. So if its hard, im sorry, but you are the one forcing these rules on yourself.
If Jeff wants Derp into his game...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The more people like the game, the better it is for Jeff. But yes, I prefer guilds over solo. If the game is balanced for solo players, guild members will have less reason to cooperate.
In what way exactly do you mean balanced (solo) in a way guild members have less reason to cooperate?
Are you forced into not being able to try and do that? No. So if its hard, im sorry, but you are the one forcing these rules on yourself.
If Jeff wants Derp into his game...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I dont think its so much if they want them playing. Ashes has a good chance at being a great game. If the game is good, people will play it. Solo's will still play it even if it takes them longer to accomplish things. Because the game is worth playing. I think speeding things up, so "casuals" or "solos" can progress at a pace of a guild so they dont have to try so hard its a fallacy. And i say this as a more casual, more small group focused player.
The game doesnt need to be easy for me. It needs to have great achievments to be taken. And if i manage to do that on my own its that much more impressive.
Are you forced into not being able to try and do that? No. So if its hard, im sorry, but you are the one forcing these rules on yourself.
If Jeff wants Derp into his game...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The more people like the game, the better it is for Jeff. But yes, I prefer guilds over solo. If the game is balanced for solo players, guild members will have less reason to cooperate.
In what way exactly do you mean balanced (solo) in a way guild members have less reason to cooperate?
I quoted above from wiki:
There will not be a generalized group finder in Ashes of Creation, instead Bulletin boards are used to encourage localized grouping.[2]
A group finder would reduce need to rely on guild members. The game would be very different from social interaction point of view.
Solo players do not want to read guild chat or becoming familiar with people. But probably they can team up every day with different players.
Maybe Derp can explain better. But players like to frown upon their reasons.
I think solo vs guild as concept is as important as PvE vs PvP.
By adding those buletin boards instead of group finders, Jeff seems to care for both kind of players but favors guilds.
I dont believe guilds are being favored. They simply have the upper hand naturally, as they should. As a group of people should always have the upper hand against a single person.
I think leveling the playing field between a guild vs a single player would be counteractive in the whole of things. Because its natural for them to have the upper hand.
I'm unsure how the bulletin board would work as I haven't seen the design for it if its added. I feel like it be akin to recruitment chat where people can make a post and you read it and try to get into a group that is doing something.
Honestly if that is what people like to do that is fair though I feel there might be a chance you actually do mroe talking to get into a group on the board or a lot more waiting. It also depends partly on the game but also very strongly on players on what they want to do. If the game is as social as i expect it will lean more towards forming guilds and doing content with each other that way.
My reason for that is unlike games like lost ark, WoW, final fantasy, etc there isn't just a dungeon instances. Things should feel more organic rather then queing you are kind of exploring the world and doing a bunch of things together. So it might be dungeons then some quest, exploring and then another dungeon. Though its imo that it would go like that, and its nto saying a board can't have the same kind of effect. I feel that the board in that aspect is like a guild but less friendly since they are more strangers. Compared to having a more friendly feel to guildies and the ease of jumping on and being included in what guild members are doing.
In that aspect I don't see my guilds would rely on the board unless they were being excluded from guild content do to player number limits (I dont feel that will be the case in this game). For smaller guilds if they didn't have the numbers maybe they would rely on the board, or they would just ask in world chat. Also the reason why I push for guilds cause smaller guilds should have a reason to grow and have the members to dot he content they want to do.
*should also keep in mind they will have a different lead designer so things can change
My understanding of the bulletin board system is just that taverns will have boards that groups lacking members can sign up on, or solo's lacking groups can sign up on, to get in touch with one another.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
How do you do anything without knowing anything? Unfortunately you will have to learn... the op is talking about working as a mercenary. Being hired by clients to do a job. How does he know who to let hire him? How does the helpless babe do anything?
He's not worried about who to let hire him. He wants to make it easier for groups to be willing to hire him.
And he's concerned that guilds will have better word-of-mouth rep than solo mercenaries.
You interact with people, imagine that.... maybe one of the group you worked with as a solo player you.... liked... and were loose friends with..... and so you talked with then and made a guild...
In his scenario, he's far across the world, where no one has heard of him before and he's wanting to join groups where no has worked with him before. People with whom he has not met.
He's expecting to have loose friends closer to his home Node.
In Ashes, players will be able to check the record of his wins and losses for Battlegrounds PvP.
In addition, to talking with each other.
The main problem the OP has stated, not in the original post, is that guild expect you to do tasks for them in return. And im saying that a loose guild of friends would not have that problem to begin with, and you could act on your own in one of those..... ive had a guild like this on every mmo ive played. Ive never joined a "large, or overly competitive guild" for the same reasons of the OP. But now it just seems like the term guild. It being a guild. Makes it bad.
Um. That is the reason not to join a guild.
Which is fine. It's also possible to find casual guilds. Yes.
I think that was covered on page 1.
But, Ashes also does track Battlegrounds PvP wins and losses. So, what the OP asked for is pretty much already a feature in the game.
How do you do anything without knowing anything? Unfortunately you will have to learn... the op is talking about working as a mercenary. Being hired by clients to do a job. How does he know who to let hire him? How does the helpless babe do anything?
He's not worried about who to let hire him. He wants to make it easier for groups to be willing to hire him.
And he's concerned that guilds will have better word-of-mouth rep than solo mercenaries.
You interact with people, imagine that.... maybe one of the group you worked with as a solo player you.... liked... and were loose friends with..... and so you talked with then and made a guild...
In his scenario, he's far across the world, where no one has heard of him before and he's wanting to join groups where no has worked with him before. People with whom he has not met.
He's expecting to have loose friends closer to his home Node.
In Ashes, players will be able to check the record of his wins and losses for Battlegrounds PvP.
In addition, to talking with each other.
The main problem the OP has stated, not in the original post, is that guild expect you to do tasks for them in return. And im saying that a loose guild of friends would not have that problem to begin with, and you could act on your own in one of those..... ive had a guild like this on every mmo ive played. Ive never joined a "large, or overly competitive guild" for the same reasons of the OP. But now it just seems like the term guild. It being a guild. Makes it bad.
Um. That is the reason not to join a guild.
Which is fine. It's also possible to find casual guilds. Yes.
I think that was covered on page 1.
But, Ashes also does track Battlegrounds PvP wins and losses. So, what the OP asked for is pretty much already a feature in the game.
So...I'm not sure what your point is...
Im not going to go further with this as i cant figure out what you are trying to point out either.
You seem to have more insite on what the OP was wanting than i do.
I have seen a lot about the exciting guild incentives and mechanics planned for AOC which I am all for. My only concern is that this may require an environment whereby you HAVE to align yourself with a guild to be relevant in the game. Personally as a solo player I'm of the opinion that joining a guild should always be out of choice, not necessity.
This part of the OP is my main focus. And my whole argument is just because being in a guild is preferable always, doesnt mean you can not solo. But by solo'ing you are deciding to take the more difficult path. Solo'ing being small group or alone.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited June 2022
Yep, but he basically just asked for a feature that Ashes already has to help with character reputation.
Yes, a casual guild would not require obligations - and they are probably easy to find.
And, no, it's not necessary to join a guild.
That was all covered on page 1.
"I don't want to be social in a game that at it's central core requires the players to interact with others and be social".
I've never understood what people with this mentality even see when they look at an MMO, what makes them want to play a game that basically all but REQUIRES you to get involved with other people, group up, be social, rely on other players, ect. There's other games that will cater to this style of game play much better, we don't need to water down games to accommodate these confused people.
Maybe you just don't want to play MMORPGs.... This is like going to a Mexican Restaurant and saying "I don't like Mexican food, please make me a hamburger".
I hear Bethesda is releasing Elder Scrolls 6 soon-ish, and I'm sure you can probably play Skyrim on your Apple Watch here soon.
I don't agree with this at all.
I have the option to workout at my empty gym in my luxury highrise i live in, that has everything a gym-rat needs. But i rather choose to workout being around people at a public gym. Not that i talk to anyone there, as i mind my business. But i like being around people. I do the same in ESO PvP, i play solo and don't really play with anyone or talk to anyone, but i like playing in an environment around real people.
You can still enjoy MMO's while being an introvert. Not everyone is a social butterfly or enjoy daily guild drama or politics. So i'm all for smaller casual guilds.
I can choose going working out at my empty gym in my luxury highrise i live in. But i rather go workout being around other's at a public gym. Not that i talk to anyone there as i mind my business. But i like being around other's. I do the same in ESO PvP, i play solo and don't really play with anyone or talk to anyone, but i like playing in an environment around real people. I will however partake/help out in taking a keep/castle, but once that's done i'm back running around by myself.
You can still enjoy MMO's while being an introvert. Not everyone plays PvP MMO's to be a zergling.
Lol, I'm literally the opposite. Hate going to a gym with people in it, but completely fine with playing in or even leading a guild of 200+ people.
I can choose going working out at my empty gym in my luxury highrise i live in. But i rather go workout being around other's at a public gym. Not that i talk to anyone there as i mind my business. But i like being around other's. I do the same in ESO PvP, i play solo and don't really play with anyone or talk to anyone, but i like playing in an environment around real people. I will however partake/help out in taking a keep/castle, but once that's done i'm back running around by myself.
You can still enjoy MMO's while being an introvert. Not everyone plays PvP MMO's to be a zergling.
Lol, I'm literally the opposite. Hate going to a gym with people in it, but completely fine with playing in or even leading a guild of 200+ people.
We are all different. Personally i don't really have the time to play on the weekdays like that. I work 9-9pm most days. So the two hours of fun i have after that, i rather not involve myself in what a guild is doing, or the drama or politics they have. I just want to do whatever i enjoy in the game, if that makes sense
To offer fun also to people who want to play solo. An MMO has to try to accommodate many people with different play styles.
How is a solo player not having fun?
When he cannot level up, get gear, get resources, defend caravan, complete story, defeat bosses in dungeons... without being in a guild.
Some people want to have a loose interaction with others for whatever reasons. Maybe they do not want to give anything in exchange of receiving help. Or they do not want to chat or have agreements to meet online for some events. Maybe they are introverts.
They'll have to get over that. People will need to be social with the community to seek aid in their endevours
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bloodprophetMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I can choose going working out at my empty gym in my luxury highrise i live in. But i rather go workout being around other's at a public gym. Not that i talk to anyone there as i mind my business. But i like being around other's. I do the same in ESO PvP, i play solo and don't really play with anyone or talk to anyone, but i like playing in an environment around real people. I will however partake/help out in taking a keep/castle, but once that's done i'm back running around by myself.
You can still enjoy MMO's while being an introvert. Not everyone plays PvP MMO's to be a zergling.
Lol, I'm literally the opposite. Hate going to a gym with people in it, but completely fine with playing in or even leading a guild of 200+ people.
We are all different. Personally i don't really have the time to play on the weekdays like that. I work 9-9pm most days. So the two hours of fun i have after that, i rather not involve myself in what a guild is doing, or the drama or politics they have. I just want to do whatever i enjoy in the game, if that makes sense
I also have limited time on certain days but I find it way easier to be in a guild that understands this and is there when I log in. I prefer group play dungeons and so forth. Is easier and faster to get a group when in a fair size guild to go do stuff
Nothing better then logging in and guildies are blind inviting you to go do stuff.
Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
...after a certain amount of time these massive guilds who already fought over "world firsts" will want to break up, into smaller more specialized guilds. Allowing the more casual players who have already been leveling a specialized guild have a "head start"
I suppose we'll have to wait and see what happens. I'll be surprised if the people chasing world firsts choose to sacrifice stat bonuses for a larger guild. I would expect them to use whatever structure provides the best stats. But maybe there will be some clever in-game bonuses for larger guilds.
"I don't want to be social in a game that at it's central core requires the players to interact with others and be social".
I've never understood what people with this mentality even see when they look at an MMO, what makes them want to play a game that basically all but REQUIRES you to get involved with other people, group up, be social, rely on other players, ect. There's other games that will cater to this style of game play much better, we don't need to water down games to accommodate these confused people.
Maybe you just don't want to play MMORPGs.... This is like going to a Mexican Restaurant and saying "I don't like Mexican food, please make me a hamburger".
I hear Bethesda is releasing Elder Scrolls 6 soon-ish, and I'm sure you can probably play Skyrim on your Apple Watch here soon.
I don't agree with this at all.
I have the option to workout at my empty gym in my luxury highrise i live in, that has everything a gym-rat needs. But i rather choose to workout being around people at a public gym. Not that i talk to anyone there, as i mind my business. But i like being around people. I do the same in ESO PvP, i play solo and don't really play with anyone or talk to anyone, but i like playing in an environment around real people.
You can still enjoy MMO's while being an introvert. Not everyone is a social butterfly or enjoy daily guild drama or politics. So i'm all for smaller casual guilds.
It is true that people can enjoy MMORPGs even playing mainly solo. Also if a player just gathers and sells the resources, and does nothing else, he/she is already interacting with other players via depleting resource spots, progressing nodes, facing owPvP, buying items and gear, and selling stuff to other players. Therefore, this introvert gatherer's actions has impact to the game world and other players, without need to group up or talk to anyone.
Do you need a ride to the Underworld?
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akabearMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I think the market popularity will be limited if it is orientated towards group play only.
Whilst that precludes players that want to play a game with limited interaction and/or solo, I would imagine it also precludes players that are time-constrained.
Sure, I would like to play a good few hours in groups when able, but I would also like the capacity to jump in for a few min here and there if that is all I had and still have the capability to do something engaging.
SOOO, it's been a while since I last jumped on here and it seems this thread has gone a little crazy since I last posted.
Having read through the thread, it seems that quite a few of you have misinterpreted what I was saying, and assumed my perspective is that of a "Guild hating, AOC hating, change everything for me" player... this is untrue.
Let me be clear - I am not against guild content, nor do I expect solo players to benefit from guild perks (obviously), nor do I want AOC to completely change it's design direction...
I think too many people see things in black and white - you know it's ok to like LOTS of what a game has to offer, whilst still having an opinion of my own, and some ideas that I thought some players might like. After all, I'm on the forums... if I can't make suggestions in here, where can I?
My idea was simply to allow solo players, or small groups of players to "opt in" to larger scale content through a mercenary system, without having to feel "bound" to a specific guild/guild duties/guild timetable. I understand that joining a casual guild might not come with the responsibilities, so yes, maybe this is the solution.. though I also thought the idea of being a "mercenary for hire" in itself was pretty cool in all honesty.
Also - someone mentioned that if this was implemented you'd have to be part of a mercenary guild to be found? If you remember in my original post, I mentioned the possibility of a mercenary high score, where successful hires (depending on the challenge of the content) would give you points that would rank you up. The goal of this was to provide both a reward, but also a meaningful way for players to be "head hunted" and selected - perhaps this could even be displayed within nodes to show the best mercenaries in each node, alongside a "mercenaries online now" list (you'd have to flag yourself as "available for work" or something to appear on the board).
Finally, it's worth mentioning that this system wouldn't have to gate out guild players. Players in guilds could in theory also become a mercenary themselves to help another guild if the other guild was doing content they wanted to participate in (drama alert).
My main concern/dislike when playing in guilds is that I have to "timetable my gaming" around content that suits the owners of the guilds, rather than just playing the content I want, when I want. In all honesty, i don't want to have to compromise my fun to play with randoms - often in different time zones with different schedules. I'd rather play the game with my friends. And no, this doesn't mean I don't want to play the game or that I hate MMORPGs... hence, I'm on AOC forums right now and have already prepurchased my key 3 years ago.
My idea was just one solution to enable players to participate in larger scale content when there's somebody already running it, without having to jump through the hoops of joining a guild and waiting for "your guilds turn at the content".
Anyway, ramble over :P
Understood if nobody likes the idea, just thought I'd throw it out there and see what people thought!
Thanks everyone for your feedback on the idea and would love to hear the opinions of a few other "non guildy" players to see what their thoughts are and if there are any alternatives that might entice you
I think you can do all of this without a system coded in place. Make your own solo "guild". Become reputable on your own. Take contracts from larger guilds... Demand your own pay based on what you know you are worth.... i mean, can you make a system better than just talking to and being familiar with those around you?
I was actually thinking the same as this after reading the OP. I think your idea is very interesting, @derp ! As @PenguinPaladin said, even if this feature weren't in Ashes of Creation, I believe there will be systems in place that will make this a possible gameplay style of your choice!
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That works mechanically, but it feels awkward. I'd prefer guild benefits to be guild-oriented. For example, it would make sense if incoming heals from fellow guild members were more effective. That would symbolize the benefits of familiarity. There are lots of design options.
Simply improving the stats of people who belong to guilds is lame. It also invites gaming of the system by forming several small guilds for maximum stat benefits and organizing their activities using third party apps.
Unfortunately thats what making a game is... its designing mechanics, and those mechanics are always at the will of the players to be abused.
However.
Crafting guilds getting buffs towards crafting, will be selective on who they let in because they want to keep their profit to themselves.
Combat focused guilds are only as profitable as the valubles they are after or protecting.
Gathering guilds, will need protection.
When we talk about how something feels, for you to say heals comming from a guild member makes since.... what if that healer joined the guild 5 minutes ago? Why does he get the bonus healing.......?
We are discussing mechanics. Now should they feel appropriate, yes. Should guildpoints have a place to go to accomplish feeling like you have a since of community among your guild, yes. But this feeling cones from everywhere....
Buffs for protecting caravans, gives you a sense that your team is damn good at what they do.
Buffs for crafting helps you feel like your crafts are something special. And your community helps you make a final product.
And buffs for gathering makes you feel like you're valued on the front line, even if you arent the best fighter out there, because your the one who can get what we need.
Buffs that only help if you're doing only guild affiliated team stuff might feel like, wooo, we're doing so well because we're a team. But it seperates you into groups who wont play together unless forced, because my team only works best together
Also i imagine joining and leaving a guild shouldnt be a simple process... to avoid people hoping between guilds for buffs just whenever
And focusing on this, yes. That is the system. Instead of having huge guilds have several small ones. But that in itself is balancing. Several small guilds have to worry about friendly fire, where large guilds cant hit one another. And so on... there is a trade off of being easily cohesive, and being more powerful. That is the whole concept of the guild system, and its choices of specialization or amount of members
As well as guild politics...... people arent robots. If the gathering guild that fuels your crafting guild get unhappy with you, it causes problems. If your combat guild hasnt won for a while and cant afford to buy the gear being made by your crafting guild.... issues. Loyalty changes. And forcing smaller guilds allows for that game to be played.
But its still player choice with this guild system, and thats the major thing. Instead of forcing guilds to be 20-50 members and making them specialize. They are saying, go ahead. Have your thousand man guild. Its fine, even if its not the best way to do things
I also want to mention that this is good for the "meta"
The fastest way to grow out of the gate is going to be more and more members. So people who decide to sacrifice ease of transition of power, are going to be going for world record achievements, and making member count over specialization guilds. And this will help the games launch as after a certain amount of time these massive guilds who already fought over "world firsts" will want to break up, into smaller more specialized guilds. Allowing the more casual players who have already been leveling a specialized guild have a "head start" against the breaking up guilds all going into level one subguilds
I will personally start a war if this happens on my server.... just to stir things up.
The conerns of the OP is about how to determine you even want to group with 14 strangers when you don't know how proficient they are in combat. You all are mercenaries from different places far across the globe.
You like to group temproarily but do not like stick near the same Node and do not like to be pressured to meet guild obligations.
How do you convince strangers that you are worthy to join their group? That's the OP concern.
Ashes has features for that - the OP just didn't know about them.
Again, don't let the term solo trigger you into misunderstanding the actual concern.
It will be interesting to see how effective your one-person war can be.
How annoying are these threads on the forums, and especially the people who create them. Finally there was a project where the guild is not just a sham just to have one more chat as in WoW, and immediately got out these people who are starting to whine that's why I'm not in the same conditions as the players who play in the guild...
How do you do anything without knowing anything? Unfortunately you will have to learn... the op is talking about working as a mercenary. Being hired by clients to do a job. How does he know who to let hire him? How does the helpless babe do anything?
You interact with people, imagine that.... maybe one of the group you worked with as a solo player you.... liked... and were loose friends with..... and so you talked with then and made a guild...
The main problem the OP has stated, not in the original post, is that guild expect you to do tasks for them in return. And im saying that a loose guild of friends would not have that problem to begin with, and you could act on your own in one of those..... ive had a guild like this on every mmo ive played. Ive never joined a "large, or overly competitive guild" for the same reasons of the OP. But now it just seems like the term guild. It being a guild. Makes it bad.
If you want to make a group that you have no attachment to join a guild with that same idea, or just use world chat or whatever they have in game that helps you find a group every time you need one which is most cases is more work but not that hard.
How is a solo player not having fun?
No content is locked out if you are not in a guild............. so there is nothing to debait on that topic. Now will it be more difficult to find people to play with, probably. Will it be more difficult to accomplish specific goals solo? Probably. Are you forced into not being able to try and do that? No. So if its hard, im sorry, but you are the one forcing these rules on yourself.
In what way exactly do you mean balanced (solo) in a way guild members have less reason to cooperate?
I dont think its so much if they want them playing. Ashes has a good chance at being a great game. If the game is good, people will play it. Solo's will still play it even if it takes them longer to accomplish things. Because the game is worth playing. I think speeding things up, so "casuals" or "solos" can progress at a pace of a guild so they dont have to try so hard its a fallacy. And i say this as a more casual, more small group focused player.
The game doesnt need to be easy for me. It needs to have great achievments to be taken. And if i manage to do that on my own its that much more impressive.
I dont believe guilds are being favored. They simply have the upper hand naturally, as they should. As a group of people should always have the upper hand against a single person.
I think leveling the playing field between a guild vs a single player would be counteractive in the whole of things. Because its natural for them to have the upper hand.
Honestly if that is what people like to do that is fair though I feel there might be a chance you actually do mroe talking to get into a group on the board or a lot more waiting. It also depends partly on the game but also very strongly on players on what they want to do. If the game is as social as i expect it will lean more towards forming guilds and doing content with each other that way.
My reason for that is unlike games like lost ark, WoW, final fantasy, etc there isn't just a dungeon instances. Things should feel more organic rather then queing you are kind of exploring the world and doing a bunch of things together. So it might be dungeons then some quest, exploring and then another dungeon. Though its imo that it would go like that, and its nto saying a board can't have the same kind of effect. I feel that the board in that aspect is like a guild but less friendly since they are more strangers. Compared to having a more friendly feel to guildies and the ease of jumping on and being included in what guild members are doing.
In that aspect I don't see my guilds would rely on the board unless they were being excluded from guild content do to player number limits (I dont feel that will be the case in this game). For smaller guilds if they didn't have the numbers maybe they would rely on the board, or they would just ask in world chat. Also the reason why I push for guilds cause smaller guilds should have a reason to grow and have the members to dot he content they want to do.
*should also keep in mind they will have a different lead designer so things can change
And he's concerned that guilds will have better word-of-mouth rep than solo mercenaries.
In his scenario, he's far across the world, where no one has heard of him before and he's wanting to join groups where no has worked with him before. People with whom he has not met.
He's expecting to have loose friends closer to his home Node.
In Ashes, players will be able to check the record of his wins and losses for Battlegrounds PvP.
In addition, to talking with each other.
Um. That is the reason not to join a guild.
Which is fine. It's also possible to find casual guilds. Yes.
I think that was covered on page 1.
But, Ashes also does track Battlegrounds PvP wins and losses. So, what the OP asked for is pretty much already a feature in the game.
So...I'm not sure what your point is...
Im not going to go further with this as i cant figure out what you are trying to point out either.
You seem to have more insite on what the OP was wanting than i do.
This part of the OP is my main focus. And my whole argument is just because being in a guild is preferable always, doesnt mean you can not solo. But by solo'ing you are deciding to take the more difficult path. Solo'ing being small group or alone.
Yes, a casual guild would not require obligations - and they are probably easy to find.
And, no, it's not necessary to join a guild.
That was all covered on page 1.
I don't agree with this at all.
I have the option to workout at my empty gym in my luxury highrise i live in, that has everything a gym-rat needs. But i rather choose to workout being around people at a public gym. Not that i talk to anyone there, as i mind my business. But i like being around people. I do the same in ESO PvP, i play solo and don't really play with anyone or talk to anyone, but i like playing in an environment around real people.
You can still enjoy MMO's while being an introvert. Not everyone is a social butterfly or enjoy daily guild drama or politics. So i'm all for smaller casual guilds.
We are all different. Personally i don't really have the time to play on the weekdays like that. I work 9-9pm most days. So the two hours of fun i have after that, i rather not involve myself in what a guild is doing, or the drama or politics they have. I just want to do whatever i enjoy in the game, if that makes sense
They'll have to get over that. People will need to be social with the community to seek aid in their endevours
I also have limited time on certain days but I find it way easier to be in a guild that understands this and is there when I log in. I prefer group play dungeons and so forth. Is easier and faster to get a group when in a fair size guild to go do stuff
Nothing better then logging in and guildies are blind inviting you to go do stuff.
I suppose we'll have to wait and see what happens. I'll be surprised if the people chasing world firsts choose to sacrifice stat bonuses for a larger guild. I would expect them to use whatever structure provides the best stats. But maybe there will be some clever in-game bonuses for larger guilds.
It is true that people can enjoy MMORPGs even playing mainly solo. Also if a player just gathers and sells the resources, and does nothing else, he/she is already interacting with other players via depleting resource spots, progressing nodes, facing owPvP, buying items and gear, and selling stuff to other players. Therefore, this introvert gatherer's actions has impact to the game world and other players, without need to group up or talk to anyone.
Whilst that precludes players that want to play a game with limited interaction and/or solo, I would imagine it also precludes players that are time-constrained.
Sure, I would like to play a good few hours in groups when able, but I would also like the capacity to jump in for a few min here and there if that is all I had and still have the capability to do something engaging.
Having read through the thread, it seems that quite a few of you have misinterpreted what I was saying, and assumed my perspective is that of a "Guild hating, AOC hating, change everything for me" player... this is untrue.
Let me be clear - I am not against guild content, nor do I expect solo players to benefit from guild perks (obviously), nor do I want AOC to completely change it's design direction...
I think too many people see things in black and white - you know it's ok to like LOTS of what a game has to offer, whilst still having an opinion of my own, and some ideas that I thought some players might like. After all, I'm on the forums... if I can't make suggestions in here, where can I?
My idea was simply to allow solo players, or small groups of players to "opt in" to larger scale content through a mercenary system, without having to feel "bound" to a specific guild/guild duties/guild timetable. I understand that joining a casual guild might not come with the responsibilities, so yes, maybe this is the solution.. though I also thought the idea of being a "mercenary for hire" in itself was pretty cool in all honesty.
Also - someone mentioned that if this was implemented you'd have to be part of a mercenary guild to be found? If you remember in my original post, I mentioned the possibility of a mercenary high score, where successful hires (depending on the challenge of the content) would give you points that would rank you up. The goal of this was to provide both a reward, but also a meaningful way for players to be "head hunted" and selected - perhaps this could even be displayed within nodes to show the best mercenaries in each node, alongside a "mercenaries online now" list (you'd have to flag yourself as "available for work" or something to appear on the board).
Finally, it's worth mentioning that this system wouldn't have to gate out guild players. Players in guilds could in theory also become a mercenary themselves to help another guild if the other guild was doing content they wanted to participate in (drama alert).
My main concern/dislike when playing in guilds is that I have to "timetable my gaming" around content that suits the owners of the guilds, rather than just playing the content I want, when I want. In all honesty, i don't want to have to compromise my fun to play with randoms - often in different time zones with different schedules. I'd rather play the game with my friends. And no, this doesn't mean I don't want to play the game or that I hate MMORPGs... hence, I'm on AOC forums right now and have already prepurchased my key 3 years ago.
My idea was just one solution to enable players to participate in larger scale content when there's somebody already running it, without having to jump through the hoops of joining a guild and waiting for "your guilds turn at the content".
Anyway, ramble over :P
Understood if nobody likes the idea, just thought I'd throw it out there and see what people thought!
Thanks everyone for your feedback on the idea and would love to hear the opinions of a few other "non guildy" players to see what their thoughts are and if there are any alternatives that might entice you
Much appreciated buddy