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no opt in pvp?

2

Comments

  • Well I do appreciate the responses. A small group of players not being able to control the entire server is good.

    It seems like spawn camping and repeatedly hunting new players coming into the game in starting areas won't occur as frequently as I feared.

    I actually really like that there will be opt in pvp experiences and that it will be meaningful pvp where things change because you engage in it. I am glad this was pointed out to me.

    I am very interested to see how nodes will be run in practice, to me that will be the make or break of the game.

    I am now wondering about fast travel. You say there is no fast travel, does this mean traveling in the open world to a spot for opt in pvp instead of a queuing system where you are teleported to the arena/battleground whatever?

    Second follow up question is there anyway planned for people to quickly get to their friends or a meeting place or absolutely no fast travel at all?

    No fast travel has its benefits in early everquest before people got teleports I remember joyfully running around gathering my party with selo's, but it also severely limits the amount of time filthy casuals can play with their friends and it will require careful planning on logging in and out at similar spots and similar times.

    Lastly I hope training monsters will not be possible otherwise the corruption system will be pointless and people will just PK by running monsters over other players.





  • PenguinPaladinPenguinPaladin Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Amrothe wrote: »
    No fast travel

    Ah, a real topic of discussion and concern :p.

    Nothing is in stone yet with the family system. But the family system is the answer to your "truly no fast travel" question.

    The concept is you can add up to around 10 players to your family. And family members can summon one another. Now this hasnt been fully designed and balanced yet. A lot of people are worried for how it could be abused as 10 people could summon 100 people to one place quickly.... bit thats what to look into for that question
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    Amrothe wrote: »
    No fast travel

    Ah, a real topic of discussion and concern :p.

    Nothing is in stone yet with the family system. But the family system is the answer to your "truly no fast travel" question.

    The concept is you can add up to around 10 players to your family. And family members can summon one another. Now this hasnt been fully designed and balanced yet. A lot of people are worried for how it could be abused as 10 people could summon 100 people to one place quickly.... bit thats what to look into for that question

    Honestly I hope its not like that, like between your family it all shares a cooldown, but we will see.
  • CROW3CROW3 Member, Alpha Two
    Otr wrote: »
    I think this means some servers will be balanced to have opt-in PvP (very high corruption penalties) while others will have low corruption penalties to favor spontaneous PvP fights.

    Heh - I read this as communities of people are different, and since each server will be a different community there will be a variance in the amount of player / node conflict. I didn't read this as different servers will have varying configurations of node, corruption, siege rules.

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  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Otr wrote: »
    I think this means some servers will be balanced to have opt-in PvP (very high corruption penalties) while others will have low corruption penalties to favor spontaneous PvP fights.
    Neither of the references mention anything about in-system balancing. I think what they mean is "some server will be populated with people who are more ok with pvping and some servers will be more pve-friendly". Society will decide which side the server leans in.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    CROW3 wrote: »
    Heh - I read this as communities of people are different, and since each server will be a different community there will be a variance in the amount of player / node conflict. I didn't read this as different servers will have varying configurations of node, corruption, siege rules.
    I even refreshed my page before commenting and still didn't see this and posted literally the same thing. Gdi
  • CROW3CROW3 Member, Alpha Two
    Otr wrote: »
    Would lead to same result.

    Interesting - why?

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  • BotBot Member
    Amrothe wrote: »
    So you have a friend or more likely a second account who kills your own red account and gets you points, you lose nothing and actually benefit your second account. Once your killed I am guessing you lose your most all of your corruption. So gank or camp spawn whoever you like just make sure to slip over to your second account to die as much as needed.

    That's not sustainable. It'd get old fast doing that every time.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Otr wrote: »
    On a server with 80% PvP-ers who most of the time switch from green to red, it will be expected to enter combat, so the casuals will not be able to rely on being protected. They would not feel comfortable and would switch server.
    PvP servers would not go green to red. They'd just be permapurple. The only reds would be the assholes who prey upon the lowbies, cause anyone who gets above a certain lvl on a "pvp" server would just fight back.
  • CROW3CROW3 Member, Alpha Two
    Otr wrote: »
    On one server, if 80% are PvE-ers who ignore open world PvP, it becomes a habit to ignore greens. Could be very dangerous to try to kill them.

    On a server with 80% PvP-ers who most of the time switch from green to purple, it will be expected to enter combat, so the casuals will not be able to rely on being protected. They would not feel comfortable and would switch server.

    It will be interesting to see how a player population will attempt to determine what their server disposition is - and whether that's accurate.

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  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Otr wrote: »
    Yes. So on a server where PvP-ers are aware that they are the majority, will not tolerate greens to protect their server as a PvP oriented server.
    Lowbies will PvP with other lowbies.
    People will make ALTs on all servers.
    Yeah, it will probably come down to that and alienate the remainder of the pvers from the server. They'll just go to the "pve" server and this is why I hate the idea of separated servers. They just speed up this process to the extreme and kill off the pvp part of the game, while having it be society-based might let the pvp-inclined servers even out and/or self-regulate if they see that they're killing too many lowbies.

    Also, imo if a high lvl pvp has to make an alt to get more pvp or for farming reasons, while there's still lowbies on the server - there's something wrong with the design of the game.
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    Part of it will be decided in forums / reddit with big guilds of certain types deciding what servers to jump on.
  • CROW3CROW3 Member, Alpha Two
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Part of it will be decided in forums / reddit with big guilds of certain types deciding what servers to jump on.

    Sure, but it's going to take a while to get a picture of what the server will look like, and I'd argue it would take a significant amount of time to approximate any kind of accurate understanding of the actual relative 'pvpness' of a server. The data will be almost entirely anecdotal, and thus completely subjective.

    Which - don't get me wrong - I think is 100% ok, and I'd hope that Intrepid doesn't release any form of objective data to try and inform players. There's a certain good for the game (and players) to joining a server, observing, and adapting.
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  • edited June 2022
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  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    CROW3 wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Part of it will be decided in forums / reddit with big guilds of certain types deciding what servers to jump on.

    Sure, but it's going to take a while to get a picture of what the server will look like, and I'd argue it would take a significant amount of time to approximate any kind of accurate understanding of the actual relative 'pvpness' of a server. The data will be almost entirely anecdotal, and thus completely subjective.

    Which - don't get me wrong - I think is 100% ok, and I'd hope that Intrepid doesn't release any form of objective data to try and inform players. There's a certain good for the game (and players) to joining a server, observing, and adapting.
    Well, both Steven and Jeffrey have stated that players will be able to assess the communities on each server before choosing to join - so there will be some form of viewable data/info.
    We might be able to decide by viewing the procedural lore of each server.
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    Hailee wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Part of it will be decided in forums / reddit with big guilds of certain types deciding what servers to jump on.

    I have nothing against this at all. If the community seeks to try and establish rulesets itself that's pretty cool. But I think this also gives troll pkers a clear place to target people. Because they'll know where to go.

    And as crowe says it'll take time to establish what server communities are really like. And in some cases (outside EU and NA areas) I don't think people will really have a choice where they want to play because the populations just won't be sustainable. Unless people want a dead server for whatever reason.

    I think alot of people will just have to come to terms with PVX and if it's not for them, then there's other games that cater to their needs.

    100% some groups might make guilds on those types of servers, nothing is ever for certain but if you hear a bunch of big pve guilds jumping on a server it but be a good place to go regardless. Doesn't mean there won't be pvp its just having the people with the right mind sets to game with.

    If i had all the time in the world id jump on for pvp on the server but i need to be pretty picky on choosing the right one for the guild. I need the most interesting but streamer free server. I need good pvp content when we conquer the server lmao.
  • FuryBladeborneFuryBladeborne Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Amrothe wrote: »
    The most fun PVX game I ever played was dark ages of camelot. Which had zone based opt in pvp.

    Mostly I am concerned with the abilitity for a small group of PVP players to kill the server/world and what systems are in place to prevent that. A group of 3-4 roving pvpers on coms can generally roll any single player with no chance for them to survive. Most people enjoy solo play.
    Most players are filthy casuals who play when they can and don't always have friends on at the same time to harvest or whatever. If there is not a way of stopping this conduct then solo players and casuals will just quit and play something else.

    New world's biggest failure was in allowing a small group of pvp players to swap between 4 companies and take all of the territories, set the taxes to maximum and then took all of pve players gold killing servers and ending the game.

    With limited towns and the same style of pvp conquest how do you prevent a small group of pvp players from ruining the entire game.

    I was really hoping for a PVE server with opt in PVP, but it looks like that is not in the cards. Convince me that this won't be new world 2 "the continued shitting on of casuals."

    Your not limited to using friends to help you fight. In this situation, it probably won't be long before people are calling out in various chats (guild, alliance, discord, map chat, etc.) and players will be looking to kill the PKers. Particularly if they have gone red named. In other words, Intrepid doesn't doesn't have to put in a system to deal with this. It is self balancing at the discretion of the players.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Otr wrote: »
    I would like to have a feature in game, to be able to find out to which guild a player belongs and who it's leader is, so that I can contact and message him.
    Guilds who respect themselves might not want to be known as toxic by other players and by other guilds. Good guilds will provide trainings, like to soldiers in an army, for new members.
    In L2 you saw the Guild's icon and name when you targeted a person from that guild. Then you just ask around for the name of that guild's GL and sooner or later someone will tell you. There was also a server-wide guild UI element where you could see all the guilds on the server, but I dunno if that was an official thing or a private server thing and when exactly it got added to the game. And I'm not sure if people in Ashes would want to have that kind of info disclosed.

    But yes, we should always know which guild a player belongs to, not only to hold them accountable for their actions, but also to build the story of the game/server. If I see a super strong party from the same guild farming a boss in a super cool way, I'd want to share info about them with others, and soon enough that party and guild would be popular and prestigious (if they weren't already).
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    We will know which guild a character belongs to.
    Players are not part of the story. Characters are part of the story.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Dygz wrote: »
    We will know which guild a character belongs to.
    Players are not part of the story. Characters are part of the story.
    And in a PvX game, especially the one like Ashes, players are a part of the story. EVE has a ton of stories and all of them came from player on player action, be it combat or subterfuge or betrayals or whatever else. That's the story of a PvX game.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited June 2022
    No. Characters are part of the story; not players.
    For some, that distinction might be a bit blurred.
    You say player on player action, but I'm pretty sure that is actually character on character action.

    The story of any MMORPG is the characters; not the players.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Dygz wrote: »
    No. Characters are part of the story; not players.
    For some, that distinction might be a bit blurred.
    You say player on player action, but I'm pretty sure that is actually character on character action.

    The story of any MMORPG is the characters; not the players.
    Ah, you mean it in that way. Then we agree. Just got lost in the semantics, as is usually the case when it comes to disagreeing (or even agreeing) with you :D
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Dygz wrote: »
    We will know which guild a character belongs to.
    Players are not part of the story. Characters are part of the story.

    This notion of yours that players and characters are distinct in this regard is really, umm, unique.

    When a player creates a different character in order to join a rival guild, or to otherwise find out information that could not be obtained on their main, that is absolutely a story of players, not characters. The player is using the character to gain something and use it in a way that character wouldn't, but the player would.

    In 20 years of playing MMO's, you are the only person I have met that has this view point. Even some of the most RP minded people I know are still aware that it is the player, not the character, that ultimately matters in the story.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Otr wrote: »
    Do RP players feel themselves as those characters they play or they are detached from their story?
    In my experience, they do not feel detached from their characters, but that works both ways - the characters are not detached from the players.

    As such, the notion of the story of a server being about characters rather than players is just odd.
  • CROW3CROW3 Member, Alpha Two
    Not that hard. In an RPG you’re role-playing through your characters. Two characters can be played entirely differently, with entirely different goals & wants.

    Thus the unit of measure is characters not players.
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  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    edited June 2022
    CROW3 wrote: »
    Not that hard. In an RPG you’re role-playing through your characters. Two characters can be played entirely differently, with entirely different goals & wants.

    Thus the unit of measure is characters not players.

    The goals and wants of a character are just the goals and wants of the player.

    Sure, a player may attribute different goals to different characters, but they are all goals of the player.

    Characters have no inherent goals or wants. They are just database entries.
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    I don't see players and character as different its literally the same thing, its just a subset. Even fi you are trying to go hard on the rp you have to delude yourself to think its not you on the characters.

    1. The knowledge of defeating mobs and learning the area, learning the systems is at the root of player. There for your character can't seriously pretend its a new experience as the player has experienced it.
    2. Players ego still exist, even if they try really hard to rp in game. There will still be bias in their actions and feelings towards others.
    3. Other people have to be accepting of their rp else you are just a player to them. If someone knows who your characters are through information any rp of being a different character is mute as you are just a player to them.
    4. Shared bank or shared resources between your characters is part of the overall goal of your character. If you try to benefit from multiple kinds of craft to help both character that is all the action of the player and their goals.

    It doesn't really matter how much you try to work things, if you beat a boss on one character you can still say this character has beat the boss while saying on another character has not beat the boss. It depends on hwo you are asked though as if someone says have you beat the boss they mean you as a player.

    If you are on a hardcore rp server someone might be like

    -Looks towards (name) with a sense of worry of the challenge ahead (insert other rp details etc not tryping a post) have you faced this for before (name)-

    That would be more in relation to character as the dialogue and actions connect to it and are not asking about the player but the character are they are both in rp mode.

    Overall on forums and in general most people aren't heavy rpers and even if you are doing content and story, gameplay like it still be kind of rough to be like tis not the player. But more fair t say yes it is the player but I try to create unique stories for my characters and rp servers I play on or groups of people do things like this and this (example of a situation, a post and how its accepted) and why players I paly with see me as my character over the player.
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    Otr wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    I don't see players and character as different its literally the same thing,
    ...
    Players ego still exist, even if they try really hard to rp in game.
    .
    Sometime my character has more ego than me :trollface:
    https://youtu.be/8_wA5VlqTnQ

    I don't mean ego in a way of he has a big ego but more so sense of self consciousness haha .
  • bloodprophetbloodprophet Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Mag7spy wrote: »

    I have shared her pain a time or two.

    If the character dies during RP. Do the people playing delete them where they are or go full Shakespeare? Funeral's and resurrection ceremonies.
    Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
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