DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I certainly hope weapons have racial designs.
But, yes, something like Whistle could be a Bard Active Skill and racial augments could change the appearance of that Active Skill.
There's potential for all of that in the design, I think.
Think it would be cool over all if there was a music sheet crafting profession sort of like how in arkage you could craft music sheets then play the music from them. And you could craft those in a similar manner by taking real world notes and converting them for use in the game and create music based off real world music
I'd like Bard to play more like a Rhythm game.
Because having 64 classes that boil down to the same type of gameplay is extremely limited in appeal.
If you want the game to play a certain way you can just choose a certain Archetype and then Sub-archetype.
Trying to balance 64 shades of grey is just not EASY, it's not FUN to create, and it does not have broad appeal [$$$], [Social], [Engagement], [Motivation].
If Bard was like a Shaman warning of and warding off evil. . . . that would be amazing.
Giving songs to Bards to play. sounds great.
But I would like it if it were taken a step further and the song choice is IN TUNE WITH ITS SURROUNDINGS and like an ORACLE; depending on broad AI attractors/repellers, regional AI modifiers, biome and of course what is going on such as combat vs [player or NPC] or simply being near friendlies, alone, near corrupted, or near party members. Some nuance such as whether one is playing in an echo chamber (cave) or busy loud location (city) of course should be considered.
Such AI modification map should be a layer on the map already. It's the easiest way to handle Migration Behavior.
If Bard was like a Shaman warning of and warding off evil. . . . that would be amazing. x2
If the area is attracting big threats: Looming darkness, threat on the horizon type music === Tense, Looming, heavy music.
Big threats are leaving the area, small ones entering === Upbeat but a bit aggressive and terse.
both big threats and small ones leaving the area === upbeat and joyful. probably celebratorial.
both big threats and small ones entering the area === Heavy, aggressive, erratic, thunder and lightning, oppressive, dark. Mega Death and Somber.
For the most part you can simply match a song to situation [for conceptual mapping/ fitting] then program around it. Then fill in the missing pieces.
A simple long. . . sustained and pained note on a violin. . . works just fine for conveying a bad atmosphere and alerting the party that threats are entering the larger 'area' though.
Hence. . .
Not every instrument should be able to "Take Lead"
and Play a Song that is based on the Context.
They can play something mostly non-disruptive though. So they could add background notes, 'diddies', moreso than Bard-it-Out.
But then Elaborate songs are available for specific instruments (as Lead) where other Bards can jump in (as accompaniment once lead begins the elaborate song) then that could lead into a Phase AFTER that song where one tries to do something about the situation such as Repel Enemies, Buff Allies, Call Rain (drought?), Attract Animals (lack of game?), [War Drums to Prepare for War anyone?], et cetera with LEAD INSTRUMENT decided by BIOME and SITUATION such as Drums to Prepare for War of course.
A different song for every situation.
Of course when bards are influencing things all-over Verra then perhaps creatures may target Bards to kill. . . it's like being pushed around afterall.
And Sirens, negative Song creatures in general along perhaps with positive ones might start POPPIN' UP all over. . . which start influencing the world.
I can imagine 100 Bards partaking in a 30 minute song to ward off a huge 1000 enemy NPC siege about 15 minutes away by lining a huge section of the zone of influence border and playing their hearts out an extremely difficult lengthy piece.
Then there being some indication of the result such as a dark phantom tide rising from the ground and flying off in a direction (away) or (towards the Node) and washing over the Bards [FAILED - but maybe their resolve is weakened?].
I can see a form of Herding resulting from this as well, but songs can't keep Evil bottled lol.
So Bard is. . . Canary in the Coal Mine.Preparer for War. Fate Weaver. Tide Shifter. Something Poetic. Fun on the Drum.
And don't forget the much more valuable and interesting boost to herb and general plant growth when playing sweet melodies. [rhythm gaming still required]
Or I guess scratch the strings and cause enemy to stagger or whatever. . .
Additionally. . .
In the parallel Book Series that followed Bean from "Ender's Game", near the end of the series there's an Alien planet. The creatures there could sing a song and the tree would offer itself and its wood in the shape they needed.
Similar could be done with the Bard as well.
With enough Bards and a difficult and long enough song played, you might draw up more resources from the Earth even.
Playing for an hour to move a ton of Iron to the surface. sounds dope.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4iSqv5z73E
I would not mind Guitaroo style. at all.
I'm sure there are unique rhythm game mechanics to rip off lmao just DO IT.
Bard should be controller-only and Freestyle half of any drawn out song to, for example, bring Ore rich rocks to the surface to be mined; taking 30 minutes to an hour.
A game shouldn't take itself so seriously that it starts demanding time and energy from millions of people for months and months without allowing different sorts of 'game' that doesn't impact others in terms of power balance at all.
Joystick shift pitch. . . buttons can do different beats. Click left trigger to start Playing. . . Depending on Instrument movement is on the thumb that's free. Bumper to strum. Whatever works tbf.
You can give a tool to people to play music in the game, live, and impact the game with such a tool; or have a Bard class that doesn't allow you to play an instrument in a real way because. . . .?????????????????????
because.. . . . ??????????????
A passion project can permit others to express passion. . . for a passionate game with hundreds of thousands playing. . . or everyone with any kind of passion can go somewhere else.
If Bard was like a Shaman warning of and warding off evil. . . . that would be amazing.
Let Bards be Bards. We're here to shape the tone and experience of an area, not to mimic it or draw it out. If this was about "not wanting what you hear to clash", I'd say sure, let the audio engine sort that out. But it's not. You've made that very clear.
I'm here to inspire, not reinforce the area's gloom. I'm here to move minds and spirits, not "play an ambient track". My job is to resist and transform the environment, not reinforce it. If you want a Shaman class, ask for that. Don't try to get rid of Bard.
This is a mechanical skill that has no little relation to what music is or what bards are, other than being one of many specific skills that contribute to a performance.
You don't build a "Chef" class entirely around "Potato Peeling". You build it around properly selecting and combining ingredients and dishes that work well together to produce the effects you're going for. Anything less is an insult.
Yes. I think your Ranger will be able to use a Guitar. Just as my Cleric in Alpha One used a Wand.
You would still be using Ranger Active Skills . Andwould be pretty cool if you're a Bowsinger (even better if you're wielding a Violin).
that's stupid, any class can use any weapon - music instruments are not weapons, summoners have 3 summoned pets, bards have music instruments, they shouldn't be used by other classes.
If Bard was like a Shaman warning of and warding off evil. . . . that would be amazing.
Let Bards be Bards. We're here to shape the tone and experience of an area, not to mimic it or draw it out. If this was about "not wanting what you hear to clash", I'd say sure, let the audio engine sort that out. But it's not. You've made that very clear.
I'm here to inspire, not reinforce the area's gloom. I'm here to move minds and spirits, not "play an ambient track". My job is to resist and transform the environment, not reinforce it. If you want a Shaman class, ask for that. Don't try to get rid of Bard.
This is a mechanical skill that has no little relation to what music is or what bards are, other than being one of many specific skills that contribute to a performance.
You don't build a "Chef" class entirely around "Potato Peeling". You build it around properly selecting and combining ingredients and dishes that work well together to produce the effects you're going for. Anything less is an insult.
Don't make my core gameplay "potato peeling".
Sincerely,
Someone who actually plays Bard.
You clearly want to be the center of attention at all times if you can't stand to be relegated to a supporting role in the ambience of a game.
Many players want the kind of experience I describe and being inflexible is not helping you or anyone.
Don't start talking about what music is ffs.... why do people start talking about mechanics only when it's to argue vain BS.
And you're insulting every rhythm game player as best you can lmao just stop.
Here's one of those frothing brain damaged potato peelers you don't want to play the game.
There's no satisfying drum sound even and he (amongst others) play the game for the rhythm aspect alone.
In the guitaroo game video I link in the post you reply to, the game mechanic is tied to the song. You turn the joystick up when going up in pitch and down when going down in pitch. It's stylized but fits the feel of the song. There is also timed button presses as with plucking/ strumming.
Potato peeler. . .
Bards have access to multiple instruments 'SongRune' it isn't an arbitrary constraint
If Bard was like a Shaman warning of and warding off evil. . . . that would be amazing.
Let Bards be Bards. We're here to shape the tone and experience of an area, not to mimic it or draw it out. If this was about "not wanting what you hear to clash", I'd say sure, let the audio engine sort that out. But it's not. You've made that very clear.
I'm here to inspire, not reinforce the area's gloom. I'm here to move minds and spirits, not "play an ambient track". My job is to resist and transform the environment, not reinforce it. If you want a Shaman class, ask for that. Don't try to get rid of Bard.
This is a mechanical skill that has no little relation to what music is or what bards are, other than being one of many specific skills that contribute to a performance.
You don't build a "Chef" class entirely around "Potato Peeling". You build it around properly selecting and combining ingredients and dishes that work well together to produce the effects you're going for. Anything less is an insult.
Don't make my core gameplay "potato peeling".
Sincerely,
Someone who actually plays Bard.
You clearly want to be the center of attention at all times if you can't stand to be relegated to a supporting role in the ambience of a game.
Many players want the kind of experience I describe and being inflexible is not helping you or anyone.
Don't start talking about what music is ffs.... why do people start talking about mechanics only when it's to argue vain BS.
And you're insulting every rhythm game player as best you can lmao just stop.
I wish I could extend to everyone not directly in my group just how funny this post is from the 'in-joke' perspective.
Literally anything can be mapped and it can get creative. Pitch control on joystick makes the most sense though, with straight up being more dramatic pitch change and diagonal being less dramatic pitch change; so side to side would dampen pitch change and vertical would go up/down maybe 4 notes? And how far you push it would still be loudness I guess.
If Bard was like a Shaman warning of and warding off evil. . . . that would be amazing.
Let Bards be Bards. We're here to shape the tone and experience of an area, not to mimic it or draw it out. If this was about "not wanting what you hear to clash", I'd say sure, let the audio engine sort that out. But it's not. You've made that very clear.
I'm here to inspire, not reinforce the area's gloom. I'm here to move minds and spirits, not "play an ambient track". My job is to resist and transform the environment, not reinforce it. If you want a Shaman class, ask for that. Don't try to get rid of Bard.
This is a mechanical skill that has no little relation to what music is or what bards are, other than being one of many specific skills that contribute to a performance.
You don't build a "Chef" class entirely around "Potato Peeling". You build it around properly selecting and combining ingredients and dishes that work well together to produce the effects you're going for. Anything less is an insult.
Don't make my core gameplay "potato peeling".
Sincerely,
Someone who actually plays Bard.
You clearly want to be the center of attention at all times if you can't stand to be relegated to a supporting role in the ambience of a game.
Many players want the kind of experience I describe and being inflexible is not helping you or anyone.
Don't start talking about what music is ffs.... why do people start talking about mechanics only when it's to argue vain BS.
And you're insulting every rhythm game player as best you can lmao just stop.
I wish I could extend to everyone not directly in my group just how funny this post is from the 'in-joke' perspective.
So many layers.
Everything's ironic to people that hide who they are or simply refuse to see the bigger picture. Thus it's easy for them to start henpecking contradictions.
You're more focused on protecting yourself and whatever than growth.
If you want a game that's 64 shades of grey then you're just selfish and hoping it fails; or otherwise misanthropic and don't want anyone besides MMO grinders in your game.
It'd be way easier to just use a MIDI keyboard as a Bard Peripheral.
It's not as cheap and complete freedom [musical range] isn't the point. You can press 1 button and switch out some inputs for instrument inputs and press 1 button and switch back in other inputs like Open Inventory, Attack moves, et cetera.
Having MIDI support is good though and lends itself to down-time.
For the Guitaroo style rhythm-game spellcasting, it just requires a joystick and strum button; feels good sounds good and is suitable for freestyle.
Comments
But, yes, something like Whistle could be a Bard Active Skill and racial augments could change the appearance of that Active Skill.
There's potential for all of that in the design, I think.
I'd like Bard to play more like a Rhythm game.
Because having 64 classes that boil down to the same type of gameplay is extremely limited in appeal.
If you want the game to play a certain way you can just choose a certain Archetype and then Sub-archetype.
Trying to balance 64 shades of grey is just not EASY, it's not FUN to create, and it does not have broad appeal [$$$], [Social], [Engagement], [Motivation].
Big picture.
If Bard was like a Shaman warning of and warding off evil. . . . that would be amazing.
Giving songs to Bards to play. sounds great.
But I would like it if it were taken a step further and the song choice is IN TUNE WITH ITS SURROUNDINGS and like an ORACLE; depending on broad AI attractors/repellers, regional AI modifiers, biome and of course what is going on such as combat vs [player or NPC] or simply being near friendlies, alone, near corrupted, or near party members. Some nuance such as whether one is playing in an echo chamber (cave) or busy loud location (city) of course should be considered.
Such AI modification map should be a layer on the map already. It's the easiest way to handle Migration Behavior.
If Bard was like a Shaman warning of and warding off evil. . . . that would be amazing. x2
If the area is attracting big threats: Looming darkness, threat on the horizon type music === Tense, Looming, heavy music.
Big threats are leaving the area, small ones entering === Upbeat but a bit aggressive and terse.
both big threats and small ones leaving the area === upbeat and joyful. probably celebratorial.
both big threats and small ones entering the area === Heavy, aggressive, erratic, thunder and lightning, oppressive, dark. Mega Death and Somber.
For the most part you can simply match a song to situation [for conceptual mapping/ fitting] then program around it. Then fill in the missing pieces.
A simple long. . . sustained and pained note on a violin. . . works just fine for conveying a bad atmosphere and alerting the party that threats are entering the larger 'area' though.
Hence. . .
Not every instrument should be able to "Take Lead"
and Play a Song that is based on the Context.
They can play something mostly non-disruptive though. So they could add background notes, 'diddies', moreso than Bard-it-Out.
But then Elaborate songs are available for specific instruments (as Lead) where other Bards can jump in (as accompaniment once lead begins the elaborate song) then that could lead into a Phase AFTER that song where one tries to do something about the situation such as Repel Enemies, Buff Allies, Call Rain (drought?), Attract Animals (lack of game?), [War Drums to Prepare for War anyone?], et cetera with LEAD INSTRUMENT decided by BIOME and SITUATION such as Drums to Prepare for War of course.
A different song for every situation.
Of course when bards are influencing things all-over Verra then perhaps creatures may target Bards to kill. . . it's like being pushed around afterall.
And Sirens, negative Song creatures in general along perhaps with positive ones might start POPPIN' UP all over. . . which start influencing the world.
I can imagine 100 Bards partaking in a 30 minute song to ward off a huge 1000 enemy NPC siege about 15 minutes away by lining a huge section of the zone of influence border and playing their hearts out an extremely difficult lengthy piece.
Then there being some indication of the result such as a dark phantom tide rising from the ground and flying off in a direction (away) or (towards the Node) and washing over the Bards [FAILED - but maybe their resolve is weakened?].
I can see a form of Herding resulting from this as well, but songs can't keep Evil bottled lol.
So Bard is. . . Canary in the Coal Mine.Preparer for War. Fate Weaver. Tide Shifter. Something Poetic. Fun on the Drum.
And don't forget the much more valuable and interesting boost to herb and general plant growth when playing sweet melodies. [rhythm gaming still required]
Or I guess scratch the strings and cause enemy to stagger or whatever. . .
Additionally. . .
In the parallel Book Series that followed Bean from "Ender's Game", near the end of the series there's an Alien planet. The creatures there could sing a song and the tree would offer itself and its wood in the shape they needed.
Similar could be done with the Bard as well.
With enough Bards and a difficult and long enough song played, you might draw up more resources from the Earth even.
Playing for an hour to move a ton of Iron to the surface. sounds dope.
I would not mind Guitaroo style. at all.
I'm sure there are unique rhythm game mechanics to rip off lmao just DO IT.
Bard should be controller-only and Freestyle half of any drawn out song to, for example, bring Ore rich rocks to the surface to be mined; taking 30 minutes to an hour.
A game shouldn't take itself so seriously that it starts demanding time and energy from millions of people for months and months without allowing different sorts of 'game' that doesn't impact others in terms of power balance at all.
Joystick shift pitch. . . buttons can do different beats. Click left trigger to start Playing. . . Depending on Instrument movement is on the thumb that's free. Bumper to strum. Whatever works tbf.
You can give a tool to people to play music in the game, live, and impact the game with such a tool; or have a Bard class that doesn't allow you to play an instrument in a real way because. . . .?????????????????????
because.. . . . ??????????????
A passion project can permit others to express passion. . . for a passionate game with hundreds of thousands playing. . . or everyone with any kind of passion can go somewhere else.
Let Bards be Bards. We're here to shape the tone and experience of an area, not to mimic it or draw it out. If this was about "not wanting what you hear to clash", I'd say sure, let the audio engine sort that out. But it's not. You've made that very clear.
I'm here to inspire, not reinforce the area's gloom. I'm here to move minds and spirits, not "play an ambient track". My job is to resist and transform the environment, not reinforce it. If you want a Shaman class, ask for that. Don't try to get rid of Bard.
This is a mechanical skill that has no little relation to what music is or what bards are, other than being one of many specific skills that contribute to a performance.
You don't build a "Chef" class entirely around "Potato Peeling". You build it around properly selecting and combining ingredients and dishes that work well together to produce the effects you're going for. Anything less is an insult.
Don't make my core gameplay "potato peeling".
Sincerely,
Someone who actually plays Bard.
that's stupid, any class can use any weapon - music instruments are not weapons, summoners have 3 summoned pets, bards have music instruments, they shouldn't be used by other classes.
You clearly want to be the center of attention at all times if you can't stand to be relegated to a supporting role in the ambience of a game.
Many players want the kind of experience I describe and being inflexible is not helping you or anyone.
Don't start talking about what music is ffs.... why do people start talking about mechanics only when it's to argue vain BS.
And you're insulting every rhythm game player as best you can lmao just stop.
Here's one of those frothing brain damaged potato peelers you don't want to play the game.
There's no satisfying drum sound even and he (amongst others) play the game for the rhythm aspect alone.
In the guitaroo game video I link in the post you reply to, the game mechanic is tied to the song. You turn the joystick up when going up in pitch and down when going down in pitch. It's stylized but fits the feel of the song. There is also timed button presses as with plucking/ strumming.
Potato peeler. . .
Bards have access to multiple instruments 'SongRune' it isn't an arbitrary constraint
I wish I could extend to everyone not directly in my group just how funny this post is from the 'in-joke' perspective.
So many layers.
Putting 2 notes of 1 instrument on sides of joystick with amplitude dependent on how far it's pushed in that direction and overlap between sides.
Some other stuff.
Literally anything can be mapped and it can get creative. Pitch control on joystick makes the most sense though, with straight up being more dramatic pitch change and diagonal being less dramatic pitch change; so side to side would dampen pitch change and vertical would go up/down maybe 4 notes? And how far you push it would still be loudness I guess.
It'd be way easier to just use a MIDI keyboard as a Bard Peripheral.
Everything's ironic to people that hide who they are or simply refuse to see the bigger picture. Thus it's easy for them to start henpecking contradictions.
You're more focused on protecting yourself and whatever than growth.
If you want a game that's 64 shades of grey then you're just selfish and hoping it fails; or otherwise misanthropic and don't want anyone besides MMO grinders in your game.
It's not as cheap and complete freedom [musical range] isn't the point. You can press 1 button and switch out some inputs for instrument inputs and press 1 button and switch back in other inputs like Open Inventory, Attack moves, et cetera.
Having MIDI support is good though and lends itself to down-time.
For the Guitaroo style rhythm-game spellcasting, it just requires a joystick and strum button; feels good sounds good and is suitable for freestyle.
The Bard would tell jokes so bad it would freeze enemy's.