In crowfall players dropped a skull when you kill them with there name on it.
I ended up playing pokemon with skulls trying to collect them all, had them all in alphabetical order in chests in my kingdom (aka player housisng).
Think i almost got them all too atleast all the regular players
Yeah something like that would be great I think. I wanna be able to show off dem murdaz. ;P
If he doesn't, the other one becomes corrupt, but it will be just the first stage of corruption. At this point, it makes sense that red player to start cleaning the corruption without dying. He will not be visible on maps to normal players. Bounty-hunters could try to hunt him but if he is really good at PvP, he may win those encounters too.
Yeah, and the current system allows for those one-off kills here and there. But you wouldn't be able to do enough of those "one-offs" to make them into a gameplay style, because each kill will get you deeper and deeper into shit. Which is why we say that being Red is not an intended form of gameplay.
And corrupted players can still store their things in freeholds if they can get alive there.
For some players, that will be a fun way to play the game.
And if they only operate around their freehold then as soon as any BHer learns about that, they won't be able to do anything, because the BHer will just camp their ass. Or any pvper willing to help out weaker players will be more vigilant about catching any potential PKers which will, yet again, prevent being Red from becoming a gameplay style.
And if you're not PKing around your freehold - you'll have difficulties coming back to it through all the people wanting some juicy Red loot and all the BHs hunting you.
And as an additional point, if you're PKing around your freehold it means you're killing your nodemates. And if I'm a mayor of that node, I'm doing anything in my power to remove you from my node cause why da fuck would I want a dude who does his best to make my node fail.
So yet again, most (if not all) mechanics in the game work against Red players, so I really don't know how one cannot see it as a punishment system.
Yeah, I just don't see it as a punishment system, its just a different gameplay mechanic is all. I mean some people may not like it, but like, its there, so oh well.
It's debatable whether it's a punishment mechanic or risk mechanic, or both. People have different opinions. I see it as a risk mechanic more than a straight punishment one.
But I do think you should read the wiki a bit more that's been linked in this thread. It's kind of a lot to take in.
I don't see a corrupted economy or anything like that being a thing. And the corrupted playstyle may not be what you're envisioning. It will be the most difficult playstyle in the game. Extremely challenging. It has to be, or too many people would do it and the game would become a gankbox, which is not the dev's intention.
And it's a playstyle you won't be able to do 24/7 either. Even if you're the most successful PK in the game and never killed, you will be forced to do a hard reset every so often to clear your corruption and kill count. Because stat dampening that occurs as you go deeper into corruption will make your character unable to fight effectively.
Based on what we know right now, to be successful with any kind of corrupted playstyle you will need a strong support structure. It will help a lot if you have more than one character leveled to max, are wealthy or at least financially comfortable in game and have a group of likeminded players to support each other, a guild.
You can't trade anything while corrupted. The only place you can put things while corrupted is your freehold, so it would help a lot for you or your guild to have a freehold. Which means you need a node where you can have a freehold at.
You will be hunted. Bounty hunters are going to be in the game, on top of raging randoms you kill coming back for revenge. You'll have to be very mobile. Every tree you see is not just a tree, it's a line of sight object to help you escape. Every cliffside is an escape route with a glider. Every lake and river is a possible escape route with an aquatic mount. You need to have a 3D matrix in your head at all times of escape routes for the area you're PKing in. You need better map and terrain knowledge than the average player will have after playing 5 years. Every nook and cranny.
Being good at pvp alone won't be enough. You'll have to be smart. Head on a swivel. Able to make split second, GOOD decisions. Everyone else is just pressing buttons while eating doritos. Every keystroke you make determines whether you live or die, and the consequences that come with that. This is the mindset. You'll want a very fast mount lol.
The short story is that this isn't a game where you can just casually hop on and slaughter. You need to be a very competent player with very competent friends to even think of attempting that. Outside of that, you can probably hop on and kill a few people a day without worrying about risking much.
I've played enough MMORPGs to know that people like the OP that goes to forums to talk about how they want to PK and get trophies for the players they kill - are usually the worst players that quickly rage quit after getting farmed by the real PvP players, the ones that don't feel the need to get a trophy for a kill.
How did your opinion changed?
Toward more risk or toward less?
Generally, more. My initial opinion was to keep all the flagging rules as is, except you would have the ability to opt-in to pvp with a one directional toggle.
Over time, I realized that I’d rather that toggle exist in the moment when someone is attacking or they choose to attack someone else.
I've played enough MMORPGs to know that people like the OP that goes to forums to talk about how they want to PK and get trophies for the players they kill - are usually the worst players that quickly rage quit after getting farmed by the real PvP players, the ones that don't feel the need to get a trophy for a kill.
But for those players who do not quit, the trophy is important.
IF you go 19-1 against a stronger player, wouldn't you want the trophy from the 1 win to put in your house? A memento and reminder that the challenge was not insurmountable, that with effort you might have a chance to do it again.
I've played enough MMORPGs to know that people like the OP that goes to forums to talk about how they want to PK and get trophies for the players they kill - are usually the worst players that quickly rage quit after getting farmed by the real PvP players, the ones that don't feel the need to get a trophy for a kill.
Well just for you, I promise I won't quit as long as the game is good. I can get killed, but I promise to always keep that score even or in my favor lmao.
Staying red all the time makes no sense. But becoming red often and cleaning it could be a way of life because it brings the risky phase after that, when the BH hunts for him.
Guilds can form, with players who like this kind of game-play. They would be close to help their mate out, to kill potential Bounty Hunters, but not often enough to deter them to start hunting. Without BH there is less fun.
A lot of that will depend on how Intrepid balances corruption gain and how hard/expensive the quest for PK count removal will be.
And if both of those are on the harsher side, the PKers could just be attacked by plain green players, at which point it'd be a question of whether your guild/friends are ready to gain corruption themselves. In L2 there were no BHs. You'd just get killed by other players, so I don't see why that wouldn't be the case in a game that rewards Red killings way more than L2 did.
And as for "rare resources in far away empty places", we'll have to see if that's gonna be the case. Though even if it is, all it takes for that corrupted player to get caught after killing the gatherer is said gatherer yelling in chat "THERE'S A RED HERE WITH VALUABLE RESOURCES!" and now there's several people on your ass.
I mean, I'll be PKing as much as I need to and will be doing my best to grind it off rather than just die. But otherwise I'd be reducing the risk to the minimum exactly because I'd be PKing people cause I need to rather than want to.
Obviously there'll be people who'll try to do this for fun, but again though, killing a few people here and there is not really a "corrupted gameplay style". That's just rare PKing. Though if people consider that kind of gameplay "Red gameplay" - they're free to enjoy that as far as I'm concerned, cause to me that'd be the path of the weak. I've seen and been a "constantly Red" player in L2, but that's mainly because you could do that in L2, while in Ashes you won't be able to.
From game-play point of view, I was thinking and describing the opposite, that becoming red will happen near some rare resource which would also be in small quantities there in some remote location. It can happen that it just depleted.
If somebody just arrives and sees another player being loaded with that, he will have reasons to attack.
The road back to your freehold might be the the fun part.
That isn't a "Corrupted playstyle". That's playing Ashes as it's intended. You flag when you choose to, and then you go back to normal after you're done. The "playstyle" that the OP is talking about is being red all the time.
I'd be all for Titles for frequently corrupted players scaling with the amount of kills they have accumulated during the last 30-180 days. Like:
1 - 10 Non-Combatant PKs: Manslayer
11 - 50 Non-Combatant PKs: Murderer
51- 101 NC PKs: Corrupted
...
It shouldn't be possible to freely equip and unequip those. They should be automatically active whenever said players has killed somebody in the recent X days.
That way everybody he comes across sees how bad of a PKer he was and can decide for themselves whether they want to help him do his caravan, do the dungeon with him or simply be alarmed when said PKer is in his vicinity.
I think Titles shouldn't just be a optional, achievable thing.
Force a player to wear a Titel for a certain time after doing smth bad.
Make them wear the Title "Bandit" automatically after they have robbed a caravan. Let them wear the Title "Murderer" automatically after they have killed someone.
There is potential for many like these. Everybody knowing you are a robber should be part of repurcussions behind robbing somebody.
how would you ballance the corruption to make gatherers feel safe enough to gather resources but still use caravans, a game mechanic where corruption is not applied?
I mean instead of using caravans, players could still make that trip between nodes 10 times with a fully loaded mule..
To me it's already balanced. Anyone who just wants to be a gatherer can just stay on lower adventure lvls and be protected by the huge amounts of corruption their killers would get. If you want to be high lvl in both - you're taking the risk of someone killing you w/o really getting that much corruption (that is, if they balance it how I'd prefer it).
And with mules giving another dose of corruption to the killer, any low-volume gatherer can move their stuff safely.
@NiKr how would you ballance the corruption to make gatherers feel safe enough to gather resources but still use caravans, a game mechanic where corruption is not applied?
I mean instead of using caravans, players could still make that trip between nodes 10 times with a fully loaded mule..
To me it's already balanced. Anyone who just wants to be a gatherer can just stay on lower adventure lvls and be protected by the huge amounts of corruption their killers would get. If you want to be high lvl in both - you're taking the risk of someone killing you w/o really getting that much corruption (that is, if they balance it how I'd prefer it).
And with mules giving another dose of corruption to the killer, any low-volume gatherer can move their stuff safely.
I don't think mules giving corruption is confirmed. Do you have a quote on that? Haven't found amything on Wiki either
I don't think mules giving corruption is confirmed. Do you have a quote on that? Haven't found anything on Wiki either
True. I just supposed that was the case because the 4th reference here says that others have to kill the mule in order to loot it, and I see no reason why that wouldn't give you corruption. I mainly base this on L2's pvp system, so I might be wrong, but I doubt Steven would want a ginormous exploit in his system. If the mule doesn't give corruption, what's stopping other players from just killing the mule, getting the loot and running away w/o any penalties?
I don't think mules giving corruption is confirmed. Do you have a quote on that? Haven't found anything on Wiki either
True. I just supposed that was the case because the 4th reference here says that others have to kill the mule in order to loot it, and I see no reason why that wouldn't give you corruption. I mainly base this on L2's pvp system, so I might be wrong, but I doubt Steven would want a ginormous exploit in his system. If the mule doesn't give corruption, what's stopping other players from just killing the mule, getting the loot and running away w/o any penalties?
What's stopping them? I suuppose the mule owner and his friends.
So should the killing of all mounts give corruption?
Also let's assume you kill the mule.
What do you do next? Get out your own Mule and try to get the stuff to safety.
Then you have the risk.
We don't know how big the "fraction of the goods" is. It could be less than 10% so now you're completely fine with looting everything you can and having enough space on your person to carry it.
Also, even if it >10% and the mule doesn't give you corruption - you're still free to just kill the mule, pick up as much as you can and run away w/o any penalties. That doesn't sound like "risk vs reward" system to me.
Seems like a discussion better placed in A2 as it depends on the specifics.
Also, even if it >10% and the mule doesn't give you corruption - you're still free to just kill the mule, pick up as much as you can and run away w/o any penalties. That doesn't sound like "risk vs reward" system to me.
So, like the caravan system?
By its definition, risk of losing something can only be attributed to those who actually own something. Thats the advantage of being a poor fuck.
Mules giving corruption can only result in 2 things:
- the corruption penalty being so high that its not worth pursueing which invalidates a large part of the caravan system, as high value materials wilk be transported by mule instead.
- the corruption penalty being so low that packed mules are a KOS target.
I think corruption on mules might be able to work, but that seems to come with inherent risks for the other systems
Except caravan system is an opt-in one and has its own risk/reward features related to it. And those features have been questioned multiple times in the past and will definitely be tested a lot in alpha2.
Mules giving corruption can only result in 2 things:
- the corruption penalty being so high that its not worth pursueing which invalidates a large part of the caravan system, as high value materials wilk be transported by mule instead.
- the corruption penalty being so low that packed mules are a KOS target.
I think corruption on mules might be able to work, but that seems to come with inherent risks for the other systems
Make mules very slow and make them not add points to the PK counter, but add as much corruption as the PKer would've gotten if they killed the mule owner twice in a row.
This way moving big amounts of resources would be an absolute chore, while PKing mules wouldn't get you into too much trouble.
As for super valuable resources, their amount will probably be limited enough to carry them on your person, at which point getting PKed with them in your mule wouldn't differ much from getting PKed with them on you.
And having mules be just a worse and more exploitable version of caravans seems very illogical to me, while them being a safer but slower way to move your resources (which also support lowbie players) seems like a good and balanced risk/reward feature. You spend way more time to transfer your stuff more safely, while caravans allow you to transfer it way quicker but with more dangers.
Comments
Yeah something like that would be great I think. I wanna be able to show off dem murdaz. ;P
And if you're not PKing around your freehold - you'll have difficulties coming back to it through all the people wanting some juicy Red loot and all the BHs hunting you.
And as an additional point, if you're PKing around your freehold it means you're killing your nodemates. And if I'm a mayor of that node, I'm doing anything in my power to remove you from my node cause why da fuck would I want a dude who does his best to make my node fail.
So yet again, most (if not all) mechanics in the game work against Red players, so I really don't know how one cannot see it as a punishment system.
It's debatable whether it's a punishment mechanic or risk mechanic, or both. People have different opinions. I see it as a risk mechanic more than a straight punishment one.
But I do think you should read the wiki a bit more that's been linked in this thread. It's kind of a lot to take in.
I don't see a corrupted economy or anything like that being a thing. And the corrupted playstyle may not be what you're envisioning. It will be the most difficult playstyle in the game. Extremely challenging. It has to be, or too many people would do it and the game would become a gankbox, which is not the dev's intention.
And it's a playstyle you won't be able to do 24/7 either. Even if you're the most successful PK in the game and never killed, you will be forced to do a hard reset every so often to clear your corruption and kill count. Because stat dampening that occurs as you go deeper into corruption will make your character unable to fight effectively.
Based on what we know right now, to be successful with any kind of corrupted playstyle you will need a strong support structure. It will help a lot if you have more than one character leveled to max, are wealthy or at least financially comfortable in game and have a group of likeminded players to support each other, a guild.
You can't trade anything while corrupted. The only place you can put things while corrupted is your freehold, so it would help a lot for you or your guild to have a freehold. Which means you need a node where you can have a freehold at.
You will be hunted. Bounty hunters are going to be in the game, on top of raging randoms you kill coming back for revenge. You'll have to be very mobile. Every tree you see is not just a tree, it's a line of sight object to help you escape. Every cliffside is an escape route with a glider. Every lake and river is a possible escape route with an aquatic mount. You need to have a 3D matrix in your head at all times of escape routes for the area you're PKing in. You need better map and terrain knowledge than the average player will have after playing 5 years. Every nook and cranny.
Being good at pvp alone won't be enough. You'll have to be smart. Head on a swivel. Able to make split second, GOOD decisions. Everyone else is just pressing buttons while eating doritos. Every keystroke you make determines whether you live or die, and the consequences that come with that. This is the mindset. You'll want a very fast mount lol.
The short story is that this isn't a game where you can just casually hop on and slaughter. You need to be a very competent player with very competent friends to even think of attempting that. Outside of that, you can probably hop on and kill a few people a day without worrying about risking much.
Generally, more. My initial opinion was to keep all the flagging rules as is, except you would have the ability to opt-in to pvp with a one directional toggle.
Over time, I realized that I’d rather that toggle exist in the moment when someone is attacking or they choose to attack someone else.
But for those players who do not quit, the trophy is important.
IF you go 19-1 against a stronger player, wouldn't you want the trophy from the 1 win to put in your house? A memento and reminder that the challenge was not insurmountable, that with effort you might have a chance to do it again.
Well just for you, I promise I won't quit as long as the game is good. I can get killed, but I promise to always keep that score even or in my favor lmao.
And if both of those are on the harsher side, the PKers could just be attacked by plain green players, at which point it'd be a question of whether your guild/friends are ready to gain corruption themselves. In L2 there were no BHs. You'd just get killed by other players, so I don't see why that wouldn't be the case in a game that rewards Red killings way more than L2 did.
And as for "rare resources in far away empty places", we'll have to see if that's gonna be the case. Though even if it is, all it takes for that corrupted player to get caught after killing the gatherer is said gatherer yelling in chat "THERE'S A RED HERE WITH VALUABLE RESOURCES!" and now there's several people on your ass. I mean, I'll be PKing as much as I need to and will be doing my best to grind it off rather than just die. But otherwise I'd be reducing the risk to the minimum exactly because I'd be PKing people cause I need to rather than want to.
Obviously there'll be people who'll try to do this for fun, but again though, killing a few people here and there is not really a "corrupted gameplay style". That's just rare PKing. Though if people consider that kind of gameplay "Red gameplay" - they're free to enjoy that as far as I'm concerned, cause to me that'd be the path of the weak. I've seen and been a "constantly Red" player in L2, but that's mainly because you could do that in L2, while in Ashes you won't be able to.
That isn't a "Corrupted playstyle". That's playing Ashes as it's intended. You flag when you choose to, and then you go back to normal after you're done. The "playstyle" that the OP is talking about is being red all the time.
I just had to quote this bit, cos it's hilarious.
It shouldn't be possible to freely equip and unequip those. They should be automatically active whenever said players has killed somebody in the recent X days.
That way everybody he comes across sees how bad of a PKer he was and can decide for themselves whether they want to help him do his caravan, do the dungeon with him or simply be alarmed when said PKer is in his vicinity.
Force a player to wear a Titel for a certain time after doing smth bad.
Make them wear the Title "Bandit" automatically after they have robbed a caravan. Let them wear the Title "Murderer" automatically after they have killed someone.
There is potential for many like these. Everybody knowing you are a robber should be part of repurcussions behind robbing somebody.
And with mules giving another dose of corruption to the killer, any low-volume gatherer can move their stuff safely.
I don't think mules giving corruption is confirmed. Do you have a quote on that? Haven't found amything on Wiki either
What's stopping them? I suuppose the mule owner and his friends.
So should the killing of all mounts give corruption?
Also let's assume you kill the mule.
What do you do next? Get out your own Mule and try to get the stuff to safety.
Then you have the risk.
Seems like a fair system to me. Once you loot the mule, you have the burden of carrying it home
Also, even if it >10% and the mule doesn't give you corruption - you're still free to just kill the mule, pick up as much as you can and run away w/o any penalties. That doesn't sound like "risk vs reward" system to me.
So, like the caravan system?
By its definition, risk of losing something can only be attributed to those who actually own something. Thats the advantage of being a poor fuck.
Mules giving corruption can only result in 2 things:
- the corruption penalty being so high that its not worth pursueing which invalidates a large part of the caravan system, as high value materials wilk be transported by mule instead.
- the corruption penalty being so low that packed mules are a KOS target.
I think corruption on mules might be able to work, but that seems to come with inherent risks for the other systems
This way moving big amounts of resources would be an absolute chore, while PKing mules wouldn't get you into too much trouble.
As for super valuable resources, their amount will probably be limited enough to carry them on your person, at which point getting PKed with them in your mule wouldn't differ much from getting PKed with them on you.
And having mules be just a worse and more exploitable version of caravans seems very illogical to me, while them being a safer but slower way to move your resources (which also support lowbie players) seems like a good and balanced risk/reward feature. You spend way more time to transfer your stuff more safely, while caravans allow you to transfer it way quicker but with more dangers.