In this case, even if you dislike the way the argument is made, or the basis of it, it doesn't imply either of the things you said, so as usual I consider it better to leave it to Intrepid to decide if they care about anything said by a person who basically goes 'Aww this game doesn't do thing I like/think is necessary, that sucks it's gonna fail'.
Maybe - I think this can get very subjective, very quickly. My point, which aligns to what I said at the beginning of this thread, is I don't think it's accurate or helpful to judge feedback as x, y, or z from gamers as a general group. 'Gamers' in 2022 includes hundreds of millions of people.
In this case, even if you dislike the way the argument is made, or the basis of it, it doesn't imply either of the things you said, so as usual I consider it better to leave it to Intrepid to decide if they care about anything said by a person who basically goes 'Aww this game doesn't do thing I like/think is necessary, that sucks it's gonna fail'.
Maybe - I think this can get very subjective, very quickly. My point, which aligns to what I said at the beginning of this thread, is I don't think it's accurate or helpful to judge feedback as x, y, or z from gamers as a general group. 'Gamers' in 2022 includes hundreds of millions of people.
Yes, Intrepid themselves are very 'passion' based.
I'll always suggest being measured in this because I've watched many teams have internal friction because some person outside it decides that the 'current path' is a monolithic decision the team is supporting that can't change (not in a game design situation more than once, though).
A passion project has more reason to listen to the passionate than one that's trying to check a specific set of boxes to have a given outcome, so your point is probably the strongest way to interpret it. Players with a passion for nearly any component of an MMORPG exist because gamers are varied and MMORPGs are often VERY inclusive even when they have a clear goal, by their nature.
Obviously I'm in the camp of 'analytics will do its thing'.
Wanted to post this screenshot from Elder Scrolls Online PTS Forum. This is a huge reason i'm here as I have never met a company like Intrepid who actually listen and values customer feedback.
Ever since liniker was trying to defend gold buyers, i stopped paying too much attention to him.
@PenguinPaladin the fuck? you either talking with the wrong Liniker or you just straight up lying - which wouldn't surprise me coming from people in this forums.
RMT is something I despise in video games for over 15 years, I would never defend it, no idea why would you pull that out your ass but get your facts straight next time.
@Liniker well im not going to go hunt down the post, but it was probably a week ago, 2 weeks at most. Discussion about bots and rmt's like every other day here. And i was explaining how intrepid plans on going after and baning BOTH gold buyers and sellers. And you went on a rant how you've never heard of any mmo going after gold buyers before. Then someone showed up with the link to the wiki where it talks about it, you glanced at the wiki, said it never said anything about gold buyers specifically, to which i went in the same link, screenshot the quote of steve saying even gold buyers will be "stripped" temporarily banned, or permanently banned depending on the severity of the transaction. And you magiclly decided you had nothing else to say in that thread anymore.... I have thought less of you ever since.
So, I wanna recommend a launch event - I would love to see all the GMs and staff ingame next to the divine gates on the first day of beta/launch when the servers are up - they could be using NPCs or even god skins, and from time to time a message would be shown on everyone's screen saying they will be actively banning gold sellers AND gold buyers as well as exploiters hackers etc and every time someone got banned we would hear a lightning sound and the character name would be shown in the sky like in the hunger games and in a global message so people know you are taking action against it. It's critical to let all the RMT'ers both sellers and buyers know that they will get banned and if this is done before launch it's even better so they can all fk-off and go back to AA or WoW.
So, I wanna recommend a launch event - I would love to see all the GMs and staff ingame next to the divine gates on the first day of beta/launch when the servers are up - they could be using NPCs or even god skins, and from time to time a message would be shown on everyone's screen saying they will be actively banning gold sellers AND gold buyers as well as exploiters hackers etc and every time someone got banned we would hear a lightning sound and the character name would be shown in the sky like in the hunger games and in a global message so people know you are taking action against it. It's critical to let all the RMT'ers both sellers and buyers know that they will get banned and if this is done before launch it's even better so they can all fk-off and go back to AA or WoW.
duh
Good to know, because based on that thread you just ditched once information contradicting what you seemed to be saying came up, i put 2 and 2 togeather. Ill update my opinion of you then.
Good to know, because based on that thread you just ditched once information contradicting what you seemed to be saying came up, i put 2 and 2 togeather. Ill update my opinion of you then.
Nah, no contradiction at all, you put 2 and 2 and got to a 7
Good to know, because based on that thread you just ditched once information contradicting what you seemed to be saying came up, i put 2 and 2 togeather. Ill update my opinion of you then.
Nah, no contradiction at all, you put 2 and 2 and got to a 7
Really buddy. You dont see the correlation between you writing multiple paragraphs about how intrepid isnt going to go after the buyers, contradicting the info of two other people. Then when shown the wiki, saying its not on the wiki, and then when confronted with a screen shot of the quote you just disappeared? Dont be a drama queen. Its an honest assumption. I called you out to your face to allow you to explain yourself. Grow up.
Good to know, because based on that thread you just ditched once information contradicting what you seemed to be saying came up, i put 2 and 2 togeather. Ill update my opinion of you then.
Nah, no contradiction at all, you put 2 and 2 and got to a 7
Really buddy. You dont see the correlation between you writing multiple paragraphs about how intrepid isnt going to go after the buyers, contradicting the info of two other people. Then when shown the wiki, saying its not on the wiki, and then when confronted with a screen shot of the quote you just disappeared? Dont be a drama queen. Its an honest assumption. I called you out to your face to allow you to explain yourself. Grow up.
You know... "There's no way they'll actually do that" -> "Proof they'll actually do that." -> [Silence], really has nothing to do with anyone saying "They shouldn't do that." It's a pretty bold assumption to say he doesn't want them to, instead of "He really wants them to, but doesn't believe they'd agree."
Really buddy. You dont see the correlation between you writing multiple paragraphs about how intrepid isnt going to go after the buyers, contradicting the info of two other people. Then when shown the wiki, saying its not on the wiki, and then when confronted with a screen shot of the quote you just disappeared? Dont be a drama queen. Its an honest assumption. I called you out to your face to allow you to explain yourself. Grow up.
No, I don't see any correlation at all, I see a white knight thinking people that stop replying in a video game's forum "lost" the discussion. It's dumb ass assumption.
Good to know, because based on that thread you just ditched once information contradicting what you seemed to be saying came up, i put 2 and 2 togeather. Ill update my opinion of you then.
Nah, no contradiction at all, you put 2 and 2 and got to a 7
Really buddy. You dont see the correlation between you writing multiple paragraphs about how intrepid isnt going to go after the buyers, contradicting the info of two other people. Then when shown the wiki, saying its not on the wiki, and then when confronted with a screen shot of the quote you just disappeared? Dont be a drama queen. Its an honest assumption. I called you out to your face to allow you to explain yourself. Grow up.
You know... "There's no way they'll actually do that" -> "Proof they'll actually do that." -> [Silence], really has nothing to do with anyone saying "They shouldn't do that." It's a pretty bold assumption to say he doesn't want them to, instead of "He really wants them to, but doesn't believe they'd agree."
Notice i didnt hound you about your opinion, well the misconception i had of your opinion. Notice how when you corrected me i accepted the new information.
Welp, fuck you too i guess. Thats how its suposed to be here. No mistakes allowed, and god forbid you try and talk to someone.
Notice i didnt hound you about your opinion, well the misconception i had of your opinion. Notice how when you corrected me i accepted the new information.
Welp, fuck you too i guess. Thats how its suposed to be here. No mistakes allowed, and god for it you try and talk to someone.
@PenguinPaladin well you accused me of something I've been advocating against for years, but it's all good man, I don't think you are That stupid anymore and now I love you.
Notice i didnt hound you about your opinion, well the misconception i had of your opinion. Notice how when you corrected me i accepted the new information.
Welp, fuck you too i guess. Thats how its suposed to be here. No mistakes allowed, and god for it you try and talk to someone.
@PenguinPaladin well you accused me of something I've been advocating against for years, but it's all good man, I don't think you are That stupid, I love you now.
Notice i didnt hound you about your opinion, well the misconception i had of your opinion. Notice how when you corrected me i accepted the new information.
Welp, fuck you too i guess. Thats how its suposed to be here. No mistakes allowed, and god forbid you try and talk to someone.
Not disagreeing with your perspective on how things feel around here at all, but they are probably just emotionally reacting defensively to someone assuming they were something they abhor. I think you'd probably be angry in the same situation right (even if it wasn't necessarily right to take it out on said person making an honest mistake.) They'll probably cool off later.
It's definitely a flaw to blow up on said person after they admit they were wrong in my opinion. Up to you whether you perceive that as a flaw worth forgiving just like Liniker should probably decide if it's worth forgiving someone making an assumption out of pattern recognition.
I think you handled the situation maturely for what it's worth. We need more of that around here.
This is quite a strange post. All excellent products are a mix between what customers say they want and what do they need. The job of the creator is to find the best possible balance between the two. On one hand, it seems you doubt Intrepid is able to do that, on the other hand it sounds like you already gave your feedback and now you are trying to prevent others from doing so as well.
There is a difference in what I want, and what I need.
You should never ask your audience what they want. You should only concern yourself with what they NEED.
New World is a mix of what customers said they want, they tried to make everyone happy, look how that project ended up being. We are 6 years into development and we are giving feedback on basic attacks and race appearance.
New World is a stupid argument to use in this context. The developers were surpriced that high levels would gank low levels, in a full PvP game. If you don't know that is going to happen, then you clearly don't have the knowladge to develop such a game. The issue was they change the game ½ way through development. And various other issues
Gamers don't usually know what they are talking about or what they want. Most people that are happy with something don't bother saying they are happy - Everyone that doesn't like something will complain about it - and this can be an issue when they open threads asking for feedback.
A few months back some people complained about the Orcs, Intrepid changed it, now other people are complaining about it saying they liked the old ones more, if they change it again (I hope not, it's looking amazing) I guarantee there will still be people complaining about it.
People don't understand that green is not the only skin only - that the face is just a base model - that the body will be customizable or that intrepid is planning to have a Solid character creator... yet they give feedback asking for changes.
I believe Intrepid can make a good game, but I have no faith in gamers, everyone wants something different, this goes for all the other design aspects, especially combat, I want Intrepid to just pick something and move forward, I would hate to see Ashes end up being a Frankenstein of a game that tried to make everyone happy but ended up making no one happy.
Havent seen a better thread on the forums than this one, spot on. Ofcourse SOME gamers have a clue what they are talking about, but intrepid should be careful not trying to cater to everyone and mainly do what they want with their universe.
Comments
Maybe - I think this can get very subjective, very quickly. My point, which aligns to what I said at the beginning of this thread, is I don't think it's accurate or helpful to judge feedback as x, y, or z from gamers as a general group. 'Gamers' in 2022 includes hundreds of millions of people.
Yes, Intrepid themselves are very 'passion' based.
I'll always suggest being measured in this because I've watched many teams have internal friction because some person outside it decides that the 'current path' is a monolithic decision the team is supporting that can't change (not in a game design situation more than once, though).
A passion project has more reason to listen to the passionate than one that's trying to check a specific set of boxes to have a given outcome, so your point is probably the strongest way to interpret it. Players with a passion for nearly any component of an MMORPG exist because gamers are varied and MMORPGs are often VERY inclusive even when they have a clear goal, by their nature.
Obviously I'm in the camp of 'analytics will do its thing'.
Its people like you that disgust me. We all signed up for a game that will never release, how dare you try and change that.
@PenguinPaladin the fuck? you either talking with the wrong Liniker or you just straight up lying - which wouldn't surprise me coming from people in this forums.
RMT is something I despise in video games for over 15 years, I would never defend it, no idea why would you pull that out your ass but get your facts straight next time.
I found it and bumped it.
I literally made one question in that post out of curiosity as I couldn't recall a quote from intrepid about banning *Buyers
and following that I said that I personally never played a game that a company cared about banning buyers.
that's all I said, and because of that you think I am defending it?
heres a quote from me in May, a month before that suggesting intrepid to BAN all sellers and buyers.
duh
Good to know, because based on that thread you just ditched once information contradicting what you seemed to be saying came up, i put 2 and 2 togeather. Ill update my opinion of you then.
Nah, no contradiction at all, you put 2 and 2 and got to a 7
Really buddy. You dont see the correlation between you writing multiple paragraphs about how intrepid isnt going to go after the buyers, contradicting the info of two other people. Then when shown the wiki, saying its not on the wiki, and then when confronted with a screen shot of the quote you just disappeared? Dont be a drama queen. Its an honest assumption. I called you out to your face to allow you to explain yourself. Grow up.
You know... "There's no way they'll actually do that" -> "Proof they'll actually do that." -> [Silence], really has nothing to do with anyone saying "They shouldn't do that." It's a pretty bold assumption to say he doesn't want them to, instead of "He really wants them to, but doesn't believe they'd agree."
No, I don't see any correlation at all, I see a white knight thinking people that stop replying in a video game's forum "lost" the discussion. It's dumb ass assumption.
Maybe I have more important shit to do? Grow up.
God forbid im not perfect. You got me.
Notice i didnt hound you about your opinion, well the misconception i had of your opinion. Notice how when you corrected me i accepted the new information.
Welp, fuck you too i guess. Thats how its suposed to be here. No mistakes allowed, and god forbid you try and talk to someone.
@PenguinPaladin well you accused me of something I've been advocating against for years, but it's all good man, I don't think you are That stupid anymore and now I love you.
Nah. You blew it. We're over.
Not disagreeing with your perspective on how things feel around here at all, but they are probably just emotionally reacting defensively to someone assuming they were something they abhor. I think you'd probably be angry in the same situation right (even if it wasn't necessarily right to take it out on said person making an honest mistake.) They'll probably cool off later.
It's definitely a flaw to blow up on said person after they admit they were wrong in my opinion. Up to you whether you perceive that as a flaw worth forgiving just like Liniker should probably decide if it's worth forgiving someone making an assumption out of pattern recognition.
I think you handled the situation maturely for what it's worth. We need more of that around here.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Yhr9WpjaDzw
There is a difference in what I want, and what I need.
You should never ask your audience what they want. You should only concern yourself with what they NEED.
Havent seen a better thread on the forums than this one, spot on. Ofcourse SOME gamers have a clue what they are talking about, but intrepid should be careful not trying to cater to everyone and mainly do what they want with their universe.