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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
My guess is that there is money in the game?
PherPhur
Member
I don't recall ever hearing anything about currency in the game, but if there is I will say... get ready.
I am so hyped for this game. Everything I've thought about an MMO having, things i have begged for and gave big long detailed descriptions about on WoW forums, AoC is implementing. Unbelievable really..
But there is one thing that they have to have, or rather not have, currency. Gold buying, bot farming, i dont care what you say there's no way around it as long as there is a currency in the game. Just look at runescape, they go to incredible lengths to detect and ban people yet still,players have found ways around it.
Without currency, huge item stacking, and having a limited trade window the price of goods will be so unstable and obfuscated that there will at least never be a huge IRL market. It'll be too risky.
The monumental lengths groups will have to go through to get top tier gear will ensure it'll always have a high demand so I imagine even that wont become an IRL market.
As long as there isn't some global drop table like runes or orbs in D2 or PoE to create an artifical currency, the dynamic nature of farming(literally and not literally lol) in AoC, combo'd with it's pvp system, lack of a real currency, huge item stacking and a limited trade window will make the price of goods so unstable there will be very few people farming things to sell for IRL money.
I am so hyped for this game. Everything I've thought about an MMO having, things i have begged for and gave big long detailed descriptions about on WoW forums, AoC is implementing. Unbelievable really..
But there is one thing that they have to have, or rather not have, currency. Gold buying, bot farming, i dont care what you say there's no way around it as long as there is a currency in the game. Just look at runescape, they go to incredible lengths to detect and ban people yet still,players have found ways around it.
Without currency, huge item stacking, and having a limited trade window the price of goods will be so unstable and obfuscated that there will at least never be a huge IRL market. It'll be too risky.
The monumental lengths groups will have to go through to get top tier gear will ensure it'll always have a high demand so I imagine even that wont become an IRL market.
As long as there isn't some global drop table like runes or orbs in D2 or PoE to create an artifical currency, the dynamic nature of farming(literally and not literally lol) in AoC, combo'd with it's pvp system, lack of a real currency, huge item stacking and a limited trade window will make the price of goods so unstable there will be very few people farming things to sell for IRL money.
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Comments
there will also be gold sellers and buyers, and RMT will happen, it is what it is, they will try to make it harder by banning buyers and sellers and having active GMs, but won't stop all of them.
It won't even stop a fraction of them. The game seems like it's built to be market heavy like Runescape, they will abuse the living shit out of the system, custom scripts, new accounts, by the droves. Runescape manages this okay though because it's pvp is bollocks and hardly relevant at all.
AoC's wpvp on the other hand... It's going to take an insanely massive toll on the fun of the game, i'd say moreso than any other game I can think of.
I figured that was the case though. Some things are already too baked in.
Huge missed opportunity, maybe next time.
Items? Items don't automatically become artificial currency, the way those goods are gotten and the market has to dictate that.
If they cannot, then it remains just an item. AoCs very dynamic world and it's wpvp do a lot to prevent that from happening, but combo'd with low stacking of items and a limited trade window it would GREATLY reduce the chance of something, if anything, becoming a replacement for standard currency.
Thanks mate
Some of the best items won't be able to be farmed and sold due to the sheer difficulty and group effort i'd imagine. Also for what price?
If you can obscure the price so much that the markets unstable, a lot of people aren't going to invest their time and effort into trying to make IRL money off of it, people have bills to pay. The worlds dynamic enough that 1 person might farm for weeks to get things to sell at a certain price and then another person is given a rare advantageous position to undercut them and so that person wasted all their time for nothing.
I think most of these people have bills to pay, a risky market is not the place to do that.
Also, can nodes be looted if they are successfully sieged? If so then by the time the cheaper items get sold from your competitor you might have lost your entire stock. It won't just be the case that you live in Indonesia and can sell at the cheapest rate because the cost of goods/services in your country is so low, it'll be the case that your fellow countrymen are able to undercut you even further because something happened in the dynamic world to give them easy access to something you're selling(at the bare minimum you could to pay the bills).
I don't know, I think it's a problem that needs to be tackled from many angles. Just rolling over and saying "it is what it is", is just sad. And thinking that GMs or bot detection software alone is going to handle the situation to any acceptable degree is naive.
This game, more than any I can think of, will be heavily effected by RWT if it's allowed through.
However, literally destroying the games economy is not one of those angles.
If players are able to trade with each other, and are able to know the value of items, then so too are RMT sites. If RMT sites are not able to trade, then players are not able to trade.
Since you referenced it earlier, PoE is a great example of this. The economy has currency items, but they are so complicated that many players simply do not trade at all (GGG introduced SSF tags to the game to support people that simply didn't want to get in to trading).
RMT sites still operate in that game though.
By obfuscating aspects of a games economy, you will always lock your players out of that economy before you will lock RMT out of it.
Removing the gold currency would destroy this game. Think about how deeply it would effect AoC's designs and concepts.
Nodes and castle taxes, real estate, player owned businesses and tavern games, economic nodes and their many systems, merchant npcs, player to player trading and the artisan supply chain.
"Change this or the game will end up ..."
You know you're in for a good post when someone says
Another WoW player thinking he knows what's best for MMOs.
A player doesn't know the value of an item inherently, it gets fleshed out over time by many factors. Obfuscating that value completely wouldn't be fun, if even possible at all, but I'm just going to be real up front and honest right now and put it out there..
Currency is fucking boring, soulless(sp? lol), drain on a game in every aspect. Forgive me if this sounds preachy but there's a reason Jesus Christ himself said "if you love God you hate money".
Bartering is WAY more fun and either people don't understand this because they've never experienced it or they're addicted to getting rich(which money helps facilitate).
Removing currency just helps curb RWT, it doesn't get rid of it, but it has numerous other benefits as well.
On the note of PoE, orbs take place as currency and do a good job because they are on a global drop table for 1, for 2 they stack high and only take up 1 inventory slot, for 3 they are always being consumed, and 4 they have many tiers of rarity to serve as change, similar to pennies, dimes, nickels, ect. Making no item on a global drop table doesn't really subtract from a game that much, making things not stack to the moon or limiting trade windows size isn't that intrusive(players can just trade up, i.e. trade for something a little bit better and a little bit better if they're trying to trade their way into something rare by starting with a bunch of basic materials. plus it adds a cool game in and of itself). The other things you can't change without really affecting the game negatively.
And I wouldn't say they're really complicated or confusing, it's just that the items come with so many different modifiers its hard to determine the worth of something. The actual worth of the orbs or whatever on their own are pretty static.
Classic WoW is what I mainly play. Is there something wrong with thinking the only hope for the future of MMORPGs is going to come from Blizzard forking off the most successful MMORPG of all time?
I came here to discuss a clear and real threat to not just AoC, but to pretty much every MMO in existence.
If you've got a better idea on how to tackle the issue of RWT then please share, cause I think every single one of us but the P2W players are against it. And OSRS is living hardcore proof that bot detection, GMs and reporting falls so unfortunately short of handling the situation, despite the MONUMENTAL effort that's gone into it using those methods.
You may as well be quoting Jack Sparrow here - in fact, that would be preferable.
As to the rest of your point - as much of a point as it is - you're just wrong.
Once again, if players can trade, RMT sites can trade. After all, most RMT sites are literally just made up of players.
As such, removing the notion of currency from the game literally does nothing at all to prevent RMT.
Man he(or the people who wrote the words, it doesnt matter) said things that sparked a movement so big, so revolutionary that it completely changed the entire world, arguably more drastic than anyone ever in history. So yea, I'd at least take what he said with maybe a little more grains of salt than some pirate from a fictional movie for the intended purpose of being entertained.
RWT is mostly made up of people from countries who's economy are so poor that they can farm on the game and make a living wage. Even on playerauctions dot com the main hub for players to sell their items or gold from a game is almost entirely overrun by these people, they dominate the market, for the reason i just stated.
It doesn't matter if they can trade like players can trade, removing trading is way more of a con than a pro. The point is utilizing mechanics or ridding the game of mechanics to make it so that most people trying to make a business out of it can't. What's sad is that AoC is pretty much set up for this(not on purpose i'd imagine), they'd just have to make a few tweaks to the game i mentioned and they'd be golden.
Like i said, people have to pay the bills. I have a friend from Indonesia that's a gold farmer for WoW and he recently just quit because despite boosting people for several hours every day, due to just a few hiccups he couldn't afford to pay his bills with the money he was making. This happened a few times until he just quit, the income was too wishy washy.
How do I become as strong as you master? One single image and the RWTraders have been crippled to but a mere glimmer of their former glory.
There are a number of debates online by people much smarter than you or I that go in to this, I suggest paying attention to them, and then maybe you'll not bother bringing up fairy tales in to discussions again. No it isn't.
It is mostly made up of two groups.
The first are people that have found exploits.
The second are people that earn more in game than they have a use for, and so sell their excess off. My dude, if you do indeed have this friend, tell him to just get a real job.
Indonesia is one of the top 20 richest countries in the world. It is 7th in the world for GDP PPP. It also has a very high level of income parity. Trying to make a living in Indonesia from boosting people in WoW is kind of like trying to do the same thing almost anywhere in the EU.
It's ironic that this statement also perfectly describes Adolf and his "movement". It doesn't matter how much clout a movement gets, it doesn't make their principles correct or righteous.
But yea, I get what you're saying. Too bad it doesn't apply to someone who basically just repeated statements about loving people, treating people as you'd like to be treated, loving God(which the old testament says "God is love", so love love), and positive stuff like that over and over in different ways.
Saying "if you love God you hate money" was hands down the most controversial thing he said.
Anyways yea moneys fucking stupid, bartering is a 100x more fun, it adds so much more to the community, gives so many more opportunities for fun and unique dialogue.
People please stop getting hung up cause i repeated like 6 words out of a book and focus on the issue at hand lmao.
Quite honestly, this was my first instinct for a reply.
Oh cool, lets all live by the Old Testament.
I know I have a pile of throwing stones around here somewhere...
Ah jeez, that first statement... tell me you've never read something without telling me you've never read something.
He sacrificed himself for others, cleaned peoples feet, preached forgiveness, love, treating your neighbor kindly. Dude it's not up for debate xD Look, it's besides the point bro...
I want to talk about AoC or at least stay on this topic please for the love of God. I know everyone reading all this is cringing and malding to death lol.
I would say it's made up of 3 groups, the main being exploiters or botters, the next biggest is the gold farmers, then it's the people who just played the game, got rich and wanted to turn a profit.
I have ashamedly spent a lot of time involved in this process. Indonesia is made up of many islands with very different cultures and economies. That statement is regarding mostly Bali i'm sure, it's one of the most massive tourist spots on earth.
My buddy doesn't live too far from Jakharta(sp?), one of the major cities in Indonesia and the cost of living out there is even lower than Pakistan and India(i got 2 buddies out in those places as well).
Lets just say you can get a hotel out there, nicer than anything i've ever seen in the US, for 9 dollars a day.
So, literal billions of people have been killed in some false assumption that it is what he wanted - but it's all good, there are stories about him washing peoples feet.
The comment that Indonesia is one of the 20 richest countries in the world is obviously a statement on the country, not on one region within it.
Jakarta is considered to be the 21st most important city in the world in terms of economic influence. Obviously you aren't going to make a living if you are trying to boost players in WoW.
The stupid thing is - you even said he couldn't, if we make the assumption that this friend of yours is real.
Pakistan and India aren't overly poor either. There is a lot of poverty in these countries, but the countries are not poor. There are better economic opportunities available for anyone that is capable of boosting people in WoW.
Now, if you had have said Mozambique, CAR or DRC, or perhaps Burundi, Somalia, Madagascar or Sierra Leone then you may have had a point. But you didn't.
Please have regular fantasy currency like copper, silver and gold as regular drops.
I don't want to need someone to mine the ore, process it and craft it into coins.
You don't get currency as a drop, you get certificates that you are required to transport and exchange for gold.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Hunting_certificates