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24/7 pvp during guild/node wars

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Comments

  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Dygz wrote: »
    That's not going to be a thing. Which is why you can expect time limit wil be one of the win/lose conditions.
    I don't know why you think there will be a loophole for the dev statement: "Guild Wars will not be permanent."
    I mean, I believe that Intrepid can (and probably already have) address that "exploit", but I find it weird that not even once has the time limit has been mentioned. The "not permanent" has always been in the context of "we have goals for our GWs instead of just pure existence".

    But even if we assume that time limit is 24h, that is still 24h of farming your enemy guild for mats. And if the price of declaration has a lower value than the mats gathered from the dead - people will do exactly this.
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    NiKr wrote: »
    Dygz wrote: »
    That's not going to be a thing. Which is why you can expect time limit wil be one of the win/lose conditions.
    I don't know why you think there will be a loophole for the dev statement: "Guild Wars will not be permanent."
    I mean, I believe that Intrepid can (and probably already have) address that "exploit", but I find it weird that not even once has the time limit has been mentioned. The "not permanent" has always been in the context of "we have goals for our GWs instead of just pure existence".

    But even if we assume that time limit is 24h, that is still 24h of farming your enemy guild for mats. And if the price of declaration has a lower value than the mats gathered from the dead - people will do exactly this.

    Have they explicitly mentioned recently you can farm mats in a guild war?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZfqaW5klpg
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Have they explicitly mentioned recently you can farm mats in a guild war?
    There's an issue with "event-based death penalties" overall. They've said that you don't have any, but then Steven said that gear decay still applies during caravan attacks.

    Right now there hasn't been a word either way, so we don't know if you can loot your war enemies. This would in fact make guild wars way more fun imo, just because way more people would be fine with being in a war cause they won't lose all their shit. I guess we'll be testing this in alpha2, as will be the case with pretty much every single other feature in the game :D
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    NiKr wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Have they explicitly mentioned recently you can farm mats in a guild war?
    There's an issue with "event-based death penalties" overall. They've said that you don't have any, but then Steven said that gear decay still applies during caravan attacks.

    Right now there hasn't been a word either way, so we don't know if you can loot your war enemies. This would in fact make guild wars way more fun imo, just because way more people would be fine with being in a war cause they won't lose all their shit. I guess we'll be testing this in alpha2, as will be the case with pretty much every single other feature in the game :D

    I feel its something they are unsure of and there is plenty of reason for that not to be the case and have plenty of reasons in relation to having a guild more rather than mat drops. That will make it into a much more potentially griefing game, it is one of the most hardcore elements you can have. That alone would scare off most pve players or have people that refuse to join a guild. And having played showbane being a full loot mmo with the things I've done, i know it honestly wouldn't be the best thing for AoC.

    Though you can say its a niche game I highly doubt they are putting millions of dollars into the game to have a small population. They will want the game to be big even if its not a game for everyone. If you look at the weight of worth of that kind of feature as well how their systems are balanced with the use of the corruption system it doesn't feel like it be a likely thing.

    Though if it is a guild war that is not from a player dec and perhaps an event or type of area i could see loot drops being a thing, but that is all speculations.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZfqaW5klpg
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Though you can say its a niche game I highly doubt they are putting millions of dollars into the game to have a small population. They will want the game to be big even if its not a game for everyone. If you look at the weight of worth of that kind of feature as well how their systems are balanced with the use of the corruption system it doesn't feel like it be a likely thing.

    Though if it is a guild war that is not from a player dec and perhaps an event or type of area i could see loot drops being a thing, but that is all speculations.
    Yeah, a ton of stuff is unknown rn and having 24h of unlimited mat looting would definitely diminish AoC's appeal to the majority of mmo players. They could potentially balance that through declaration costs, but that too will have to be tested.

    In other words - all of this is a pointless discussion until we get to alpha2.
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    edited August 2022
    NiKr wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Though you can say its a niche game I highly doubt they are putting millions of dollars into the game to have a small population. They will want the game to be big even if its not a game for everyone. If you look at the weight of worth of that kind of feature as well how their systems are balanced with the use of the corruption system it doesn't feel like it be a likely thing.

    Though if it is a guild war that is not from a player dec and perhaps an event or type of area i could see loot drops being a thing, but that is all speculations.
    Yeah, a ton of stuff is unknown rn and having 24h of unlimited mat looting would definitely diminish AoC's appeal to the majority of mmo players. They could potentially balance that through declaration costs, but that too will have to be tested.

    In other words - all of this is a pointless discussion until we get to alpha2.

    Pretty much that is why i started another thread since it be more valuable information lmao.

    *edit though i agree there should be 24/7 pvp if you want. Perma decs are fun.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZfqaW5klpg
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited August 2022
    NiKr wrote: »
    I mean, I believe that Intrepid can (and probably already have) address that "exploit", but I find it weird that not even once has the time limit has been mentioned. The "not permanent" has always been in the context of "we have goals for our GWs instead of just pure existence".

    But even if we assume that time limit is 24h, that is still 24h of farming your enemy guild for mats. And if the price of declaration has a lower value than the mats gathered from the dead - people will do exactly this.
    https://youtu.be/01Jq8uKxGRM?t=4148
    mark 1:09:08
    The context was an answer to the question: "Will Guilds and Alliances have the option for permanent or long-lasting (Guild) Wars with other Guilds and Allliances? Or will the Guild Wars system only allow for shorter, objective-based conflicts?"
    Steven: "There won't be permanent wars. There will be definitive victory conditions applied too each war instance. And those will vary across the different wars, depending on the level of your Guild, the level of the opposing guild, and different assets the Guilds may have to help indicate specific objectives."



    Guild Wars have specific Objectives and Victory Conditions (and surrender conditions).
    Your paraphrase of, "We have goals for our GWs..." sounds more like dev design goals.
    I was clarifying that Guild Wars are not just "I declared war on another Guild and now I get to farm them for mats 24/7 for as long as I want."
    Guild War Objectives are more impactful than that...and they also come with Victory Conditions beyond just killing rival Guild members for mats.
    Especially since there are no death penalties for Guild Wars, so you probably can't farm rival Guild members for mats anyway.

    I expect time limits on Guild Wars to vary... but, in general, be longer than 24H.
    And, where Azherae says she wouldn't want the Guild War to end... there will be conditions for the Guild War to end, rather than it just running on indefinitely - especially not just running indefinitely simply because the Guild who declared the Guild War chooses to not complete all of the actual Objectives.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Dygz wrote: »
    Especially since there are no death penalties for Guild Wars, so you probably can't farm rival Guild members for mats anyway.

    I expect time limits on Guild Wars to vary... but, in general, be longer than 24H.
    And, where Azherae says she wouldn't want the Guild War to end... there will be conditions for the Guild War to end, rather than it just running on indefinitely - especially not just running indefinitely simply because the Guild who declared the Guild War chooses to not complete all of the actual Objectives.
    We shall see if that is the case in alpha2 :)
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    We will, my friend, we will!!
  • AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited August 2022
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Azherae wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Azherae wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Dygz wrote: »
    My point was:
    Initiating a Guild War includes objectives that are more meaningful than just "I'm going to farm the rival guild for mats indefinitely."

    You can expect to be able to extend a Guild War by not killing the leader or whatever if you want.
    No skin off my back. And it's always, of course, fine to remain skeptical until you are provided evidence that convinces you of something.
    Sure.

    Honestly don't think there should be any consequence for dying in a guild war xp and mat loss. Based on the amount of deaths it have a pretty big effect, unless that is what they are going for to stop people from considering it. Though strong guild will be able to use that hugely to their advantage.

    The war should be about controlling a are not looting mats off people, else people will war as much as possible which pushes this nito more of a pvp game than pvx.

    Works the same the other way. If you can avoid losing mats by being in Guild War, and you also like PvP even if you lose, being at war basically all the time is massively to your benefit.

    High level crafter guilds being at war all the time would be cool.

    Not really as its only the warring guild and plenty of other people are still up to attack them. Its not really normal for people to be ganked either like that as not everyone is going to take a corruption hit. In fact you are removing corruption risk and only really getting the benefit of the reward.

    If you are decing a guild that should be known that you aren't going to farm mats off killing people as the reason for a guild war should have more purpose like controlling a area or a dungeon. The purpose shouldn't be im going to kill them for mats, else you create a environment people will always be trying to dec as much as possible in to bypass the corruption system.

    Ah, sad but unsurprised to hear that your experiences don't line up.

    I'm gonna dec to kill people for mats if there is a 6% margin on it, moreso if it's an unbalanced skill comp, for that I'll go all the way down to 4% returns depending on what level my group's Armorsmith is at in their Artisanship.

    You do whatever you do.

    You can't do that if it isn't in the game lmao.
    Azherae wrote: »
    Dygz wrote: »
    Expect players on both sides to be involved in choosing some of the objectives and/or conditions of the War.
    It's not just going to be that a Guild declares a Guild War and then the AI/game chooses all the objectives, with no imput from the Guilds involved.
    You shouldn't need a dev quote to know that, but you can ask the devs that specific question if you really want to generate a dev quote.

    Well, remember that you have more direct(?) contact with members of the team than we do, so the 'underlying philosophy' is clearer to you sometimes.

    My group will handle the question for Q&A this month if it doesn't get clarified otherwise on Discord or something before that. I'll probably ask it myself since I have none yet.

    Q&A question delivered, noting it here in case it is missed so that no one else 'wastes' their precioussss questionssss.
    Y'all know how Jamberry Roll.
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