Example being some people wanting no global chat to reduce socialization options between people which makes 0 senses.
I don't want global chat because it'd be pointless. The sense of node-based community gets diluted because you can instead talk to the other 9.5k+ people on the server. The sheer spam of such a chat would be insane. And there'd be no functional use for that chat because you can't just go and party up with someone from the other continent.
It's about "people don't know what they want, even if they say they do". Making people socialize with a smaller local group would lead to a better feeling of community and would provide each player with connections to the people who play within the same location, so if you ever need help with something - you'd already know who to talk to and would be able to get to them quicker.
U-huh, u-huh. And there are MMOs out there that cater to this. Ashes, however has repeatedly stated to have been influenced by older MMOs. The node of which you become a citizen will have plenty to do in terms of dungeons, and bosses. And if you want to go to the other end of the world. Don't think of the destination as the end all and be all. Instead try and advocate for a world in which the travel itself is the adventure.
If you cater to those that can't commit time any of the seven days in a week, you trivialise the world, and might as well go the WoW route.
You could pay for passage on a sea worthy vessel, maybe/preferably player/guild run transports, liable to getting attacked and all. As we already know ships will be a thing. Or land based caravans. Point is, you see travel as a chore, and that's the problem. Travel should be an adventure in and of itself. And trivialising it the way suggested cheapens the experience for everyone.
Remind me again how a simple expansion of transport availability between nodes "trivializes travel"? The entire purpose is to cut out the fluff of having to run endlessly between nodes. You would still have to run from the node to the actual content out in the world
To counter your point that the game is influenced by older MMOs, that's perfectly fine. Being influenced by MMOs is one thing; adopting archaic mechanics for the sake of "remember the old days guys? ahuehua" is pretty bad design. I remember when Old School Runescape decided it would not include the grand exchange and trading would be done "just like the good ol' days." I think the novelty of it wore off within a few weeks before third party sites created their own versions of the grand exchange because people didn't want to spend 2 hours in game spamming "wave:flash: selling raw tuna 300gp ea ~~~l33tsk1ll~~~". This eventually led to an auto-chat feature being implemented and the ultimate reintroduction of the grand exchange. Old systems can be interesting, but they need to be implemented in modern, refreshed ways or else the nostalgia will wear off and people will loathe the mechanic.
You are right to an extend on some of people wanting this to be extremely old or worst just for reduced fun experience. Example being some people wanting no global chat to reduce socialization options between people which makes 0 senses.
You think 10k person chat is some great social experience? There's at least 40 people in a 2 minute radius around/ within every node up to hundreds.
I'd rather a transmitter exist as some item for Comms within a certain range. Game is Civ vs Civ.
And proximity voice chat.
@NiKr
Even feuds and local shitfests are better than global
No global chat will make zergs easier. Takes longer for news to travel.
Imo that's the job of the opposing/rival guild to have knowledge of such movements. If you're planning to kill a juicy boss right as he spawns, it's on you to have at least a few spies/scouts that would be monitoring potential routes of any enemies. A real zerg would be hard to miss.
It's not about protecting kills, it's about killing zergs. In other games my guilds and I would roam the land fighting zergs. We can handle unwelcome guests. Without global chat it means we must wait for zergs to reach us rather than finding a zerg to fight.
Without global chat it means we must wait for zergs to reach us rather than finding a zerg to fight.
Were you, like, asking randoes on the server whether there was a zerg somewhere? Or how did the chat help you with that. Also, in my experience the zerg is usually used to clear content and not just run around like headless chickens. And if there's content to clear and you're in the striking distance of said content - imo, you should know its respawn timers and know who might attack it. Especially if it's a zerg guild who very rarely hide their intentions.
Guilds can use out of game comms since there's no way to stop them but for more in-game solutions I think "Gemini Transmitters" where 2 Magic Enchanted Stones can communicate long distance would work. Officer + Scout patrol leader communicate, with your officers with you. several scout parties means more Intel.
I guess Intrepid could aggressively stop out-of-game comms.
game is meant to feel big and have fog of war though.
On one side, zerg are for kind of specific targets that justify zerg. gathering so much people have to not be meaningless.
On other side, spying activity. Spies don't have to be your guild mate, it can be people you met while traveling discovering the world, had fun with and became friends. Such people can inform you that [guild] want to zerg [target] this evening.
And they could also give informations about juicy caravan or what else interesting to know
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OnyStyleMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
With that in mind, it is completely understandable and expected that hardcore players still be accomodated. Of course, there will be content that is strictly geared to that playerbase, which is perfectly fine. There SHOULD be content that only the top X% of players can do and content that the hardcore grinders want to do. Games need hardcore players as well as casual players to thrive. The problem being discussed, however, is part of the core gameplay loop that every player will experience. Once casual players like the average video game player sees how much of a percentage of their play time is dedicated solely to traveling and not engaging in content, they very likely will leave. In addition, potential new players that see how much of a slog they have ahead of them will cancel their subscription after a month or so.
You know that this game is owpvp, right? So in that context you gotta realize that your suggestion of "anyone can reach any place on the map within 20 minutes" will just mean that any zerg or strong group of players will be able to go to the same places you want to go to, except they can just run over you and your friends and you'll never experience that content in the first place.
While with meaningful travel time, your local node might have good content (or you moved to a node with one) and there's only one or two local strong groups that can farm that place instead of 20 from the entire server.
And if you're talking about casual content, that shit's supposed to be on every corner of the world due to how Node's progression and design works.
The game is designed with a player anchor. Your node is your home and you're meant to work on its improvement. If all you do is just travel every day - your node will die off. At which point you've failed at the most important part of the game, because you were too selfish and wanted to farm your own content instead of what your node (or the vassal system that you live in) presented you with.
This is a different style of game, targeted at a particular audience. Will that audience be way smaller than smth like WoW or FF14 have? Of course. Do Steven and Intrepid know that and still continue to develop the game in that manner? Also of course. And this is why people on this forum (who're here exactly because they support the current vision of the game) are against your suggestion.
Traveling between large distances makes battling zergs easier. In fact, if travel remains super slow, then zergs will be near unstoppable. Bounty hunters may not be bountiful enough in that area to battle them. It would be trivial to get a large group of players in an area and start hobo killing. And because of how difficult it is to travel large distances, it would be difficult to go fight against. I am unsure you realize how long 20 minutes is. 20 minutes is a long time for a lot of people.
I think @ariatras has explained it best. The average player is older.
The reality is, you will not be staying within your nodes zone of influence (zoi) for 100% of the time. You say it is selfish to travel outside of your nodes zone of influence, but that is simply false. There are plenty of reasons one may need to travel outside of one's node. Gathering resources that can't be gotten in your own node, running out of quests within your own node, fighting other nodes bosses for crafting materials, checking out prices on other nodes markets, etc etc.
Finally, if you think Steven is like "Yeah, I want to make an MMO that is less popular than WoW and ff14" you are mistaken. While he understands that not everyone will enjoy all of the content, he also has said repeatedly that he wants there to be enjoyable content for everyone. Pvp is important but if you don't like pvp, there is STILL a place for those people with the awesome raid system. Don't like pve? That's okay too because the pvp system is expansive! Want to rp? They are targeting that audience too!
Steven's goal is quite literally the rebirth of the mmorpg genre.
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OnyStyleMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
U-huh, u-huh. And there are MMOs out there that cater to this. Ashes, however has repeatedly stated to have been influenced by older MMOs. The node of which you become a citizen will have plenty to do in terms of dungeons, and bosses. And if you want to go to the other end of the world. Don't think of the destination as the end all and be all. Instead try and advocate for a world in which the travel itself is the adventure.
If you cater to those that can't commit time any of the seven days in a week, you trivialise the world, and might as well go the WoW route.
You could pay for passage on a sea worthy vessel, maybe/preferably player/guild run transports, liable to getting attacked and all. As we already know ships will be a thing. Or land based caravans. Point is, you see travel as a chore, and that's the problem. Travel should be an adventure in and of itself. And trivialising it the way suggested cheapens the experience for everyone.
Remind me again how a simple expansion of transport availability between nodes "trivializes travel"? The entire purpose is to cut out the fluff of having to run endlessly between nodes. You would still have to run from the node to the actual content out in the world
To counter your point that the game is influenced by older MMOs, that's perfectly fine. Being influenced by MMOs is one thing; adopting archaic mechanics for the sake of "remember the old days guys? ahuehua" is pretty bad design. I remember when Old School Runescape decided it would not include the grand exchange and trading would be done "just like the good ol' days." I think the novelty of it wore off within a few weeks before third party sites created their own versions of the grand exchange because people didn't want to spend 2 hours in game spamming "wave:flash: selling raw tuna 300gp ea ~~~l33tsk1ll~~~". This eventually led to an auto-chat feature being implemented and the ultimate reintroduction of the grand exchange. Old systems can be interesting, but they need to be implemented in modern, refreshed ways or else the nostalgia will wear off and people will loathe the mechanic.
You are right to an extend on some of people wanting this to be extremely old or worst just for reduced fun experience. Example being some people wanting no global chat to reduce socialization options between people which makes 0 senses.
Bingo. As an older mmo fan there is a lot I wish current mmos have (the community interaction is near dead these days). But that doesn't mean there aren't tons of QOL features that not having would kill any chance of success. And in a world where people's options are "spend 30 minutes running to my destination" or playing a game of league/call of duty/halo/fortnite/w.e other games people play these days.
Telling someone to "just plan ahead lul" is a horrible argument.
PvP is one of the biggest gameplay dynamics around.
Not in MMO's it isnt.
Its third, behind PvE and crafting/gathering.
Yes, more people spend more time crafting and gathering in MMO's than they spend PvP'ing.
This may be true, it depends from game to game, but I could easily argue that MMO's as hold not being able to properly integrate reasonable PvP game loops into their games is why most fail. You need replayable loops and PvE and Crafting no matter how great, are not replayable loops. For AoC to be successful it all needs to work.
But as far as the OP goes, the map seems crazy big, but in reality, with the airships and the server caps it will be very alive and manageable, it's a non issue.
Airships as of current design, only exist between 2 scientific metropolises. A server feeling alive won't make a 30 minute run much less painful. If you think there is ENOUGH faster travel, then we are probably going to just have to disagree. There will be plenty of times when you will have to go to a completely different biome to collect resources (which will mean leaving your node).
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HinotoriMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
With that in mind, it is completely understandable and expected that hardcore players still be accomodated. Of course, there will be content that is strictly geared to that playerbase, which is perfectly fine. There SHOULD be content that only the top X% of players can do and content that the hardcore grinders want to do. Games need hardcore players as well as casual players to thrive. The problem being discussed, however, is part of the core gameplay loop that every player will experience. Once casual players like the average video game player sees how much of a percentage of their play time is dedicated solely to traveling and not engaging in content, they very likely will leave. In addition, potential new players that see how much of a slog they have ahead of them will cancel their subscription after a month or so.
You know that this game is owpvp, right? So in that context you gotta realize that your suggestion of "anyone can reach any place on the map within 20 minutes" will just mean that any zerg or strong group of players will be able to go to the same places you want to go to, except they can just run over you and your friends and you'll never experience that content in the first place.
While with meaningful travel time, your local node might have good content (or you moved to a node with one) and there's only one or two local strong groups that can farm that place instead of 20 from the entire server.
And if you're talking about casual content, that shit's supposed to be on every corner of the world due to how Node's progression and design works.
The game is designed with a player anchor. Your node is your home and you're meant to work on its improvement. If all you do is just travel every day - your node will die off. At which point you've failed at the most important part of the game, because you were too selfish and wanted to farm your own content instead of what your node (or the vassal system that you live in) presented you with.
This is a different style of game, targeted at a particular audience. Will that audience be way smaller than smth like WoW or FF14 have? Of course. Do Steven and Intrepid know that and still continue to develop the game in that manner? Also of course. And this is why people on this forum (who're here exactly because they support the current vision of the game) are against your suggestion.
Traveling between large distances makes battling zergs easier. In fact, if travel remains super slow, then zergs will be near unstoppable. Bounty hunters may not be bountiful enough in that area to battle them. It would be trivial to get a large group of players in an area and start hobo killing. And because of how difficult it is to travel large distances, it would be difficult to go fight against. I am unsure you realize how long 20 minutes is. 20 minutes is a long time for a lot of people.
I think @ariatras has explained it best. The average player is older.
The reality is, you will not be staying within your nodes zone of influence (zoi) for 100% of the time. You say it is selfish to travel outside of your nodes zone of influence, but that is simply false. There are plenty of reasons one may need to travel outside of one's node. Gathering resources that can't be gotten in your own node, running out of quests within your own node, fighting other nodes bosses for crafting materials, checking out prices on other nodes markets, etc etc.
Finally, if you think Steven is like "Yeah, I want to make an MMO that is less popular than WoW and ff14" you are mistaken. While he understands that not everyone will enjoy all of the content, he also has said repeatedly that he wants there to be enjoyable content for everyone. Pvp is important but if you don't like pvp, there is STILL a place for those people with the awesome raid system. Don't like pve? That's okay too because the pvp system is expansive! Want to rp? They are targeting that audience too!
Steven's goal is quite literally the rebirth of the mmorpg genre.
Theres a place for casuals in the game. You'll just have to deal with achieving everything at a slower pace due to your circumstance.
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OnyStyleMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
@Natasha
Yes. I will be slower. I would be slower even with faster travel time. So what?
oh sure people will sometime travel elsewhere for various reason.
but the game is designed around this as a problematic and not a common basic decision.
Choices matters. If you are fare, it will be harder to intercept zerg movement. but also, while you move elsewhere you are a better place to get information from this specific "elsewhere (spy) you share with guildmate.
For the "hobo killing in a edefined area"
while global chat is a really big discussion with lot of people on both side
there is another thing : node chat. (which would need to know exactly how it works... which node because some node can be in ZOI of others, etc)... for such situation it could be a solution... "hey, the [guild] are killing everything [localisation] please help" and people from various guild will share with other (even not logged in) people gather, big fight. here we go.
Example being some people wanting no global chat to reduce socialization options between people which makes 0 senses.
I don't want global chat because it'd be pointless. The sense of node-based community gets diluted because you can instead talk to the other 9.5k+ people on the server. The sheer spam of such a chat would be insane. And there'd be no functional use for that chat because you can't just go and party up with someone from the other continent.
It's about "people don't know what they want, even if they say they do". Making people socialize with a smaller local group would lead to a better feeling of community and would provide each player with connections to the people who play within the same location, so if you ever need help with something - you'd already know who to talk to and would be able to get to them quicker.
This comes down to "I don't see a use for it so i don't want people to have it".
So me that isn't a reason for it to not be included, what you might feel as spam is not spam to another. Nor does that mean all people are going to be talking at the same time at the server, there will be plenty of people that don't talk or have it turned off.
There is plenty functional use, just because someone is across the map doesn't mean you can't go there and meet up. For politics there is no reason why you should be limited on chat as that can offer plenty of information on a lot of different fronts.
I can use the same point on "people don't know what they want, even if they say they do".
Are you going to sit in town and wait for people to talk to there while not doing content? You aren't going to be interacting that much since you are going to have to rely on friends list and discord to try to talk to a wider audience of people. Global chat can start conversations or you can see people are doing things in your area and simply go join up or do whatever. It makes the games feel more social, over just wondering around single player or with your group in the world.
Any issue you have with global chat is easily fixed in design from limitations, dividing each area and allowing people to opt into each area through tabs.
You aren't going to know who to talk to since you won't be able to interact with anyone since you are trying to rely on extremely old school methods with "say + yell" as options.
You are effectively forcing people to use discords and get out of the game to chat with people.
If there is no global chat I'll be forced to use discords for information on the server. Id rather do everything in game since ill be running a large guild.
oh sure people will sometime travel elsewhere for various reason.
but the game is designed around this as a problematic and not a common basic decision.
Choices matters. If you are fare, it will be harder to intercept zerg movement. but also, while you move elsewhere you are a better place to get information from this specific "elsewhere (spy) you share with guildmate.
For the "hobo killing in a edefined area"
while global chat is a really big discussion with lot of people on both side
there is another thing : node chat. (which would need to know exactly how it works... which node because some node can be in ZOI of others, etc)... for such situation it could be a solution... "hey, the [guild] are killing everything [localisation] please help" and people from various guild will share with other (even not logged in) people gather, big fight. here we go.
Big fights are super cool and such clashes are something I look forward to. If you think a 20 minute travel time doesn't feel like a big decision, I think we value our own time very differently. Sure does 40 minutes (ONE WAY) feel like a bigger decision, yeah, but at that point I'll just spend my limited playtime a day on a game that actually respects my time.
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HinotoriMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
@Natasha
Yes. I will be slower. I would be slower even with faster travel time. So what?
I'd rather they not shrink the world to cater to people playing an hour a day.
If you want a casual experience where you don't want to plan what you're doing for the day or a game where travel does mean something then just play wow mage with its infinite teleports.
Like I said. You'll still be able to play the game. You'll just have to deal with the fact youre going to be slower. If you don't like that then it's not upto the developer to cater and change the entire world to suit you.
Casuals can go out and gather, do pve, do a world boss, arena or any number of things in their node.
If they decide to move or want more content outside of their vassal node system they'll have to plan the journey like the rest of us. But its not the developers issue or every other players issue that it'll take them longer.
Its on the casual players to understand that they're the one who has added their own handicap.
No global chat will make zergs easier. Takes longer for news to travel.
This is wrong, you will simply let mega guilds have a huge advantage on the server and crush you without you being able to ask anyone for help. Or use the politics on the server to your advantage and have enemy guilds against them back you up.
If i have a mega guild at the start of the game i dont want people using global chat. Easy win on the server.
@Natasha
Yes. I will be slower. I would be slower even with faster travel time. So what?
But its not the developers issue or every other players issue that it'll take them longer.
Its on the casual players to understand that they're the one who has added their own handicap.
Actually, that is exactly their job. MMOs die without appealing to people with limited amounts of time. It sounds to me you want the game to appeal to 5% hardcore player at the expense of the other 95%. If you want to spend 40 minutes traveling each way to go gathering, then you and I are going to fundamentally disagree on game design.
@Natasha
Yes. I will be slower. I would be slower even with faster travel time. So what?
But its not the developers issue or every other players issue that it'll take them longer.
Its on the casual players to understand that they're the one who has added their own handicap.
Actually, that is exactly their job. MMOs die without appealing to people with limited amounts of time. It sounds to me you want the game to appeal to 5% hardcore player at the expense of the other 95%. If you want to spend 40 minutes traveling each way to go gathering, then you and I are going to fundamentally disagree on game design.
I think you are missing the point on AoC. You are not meant to do everything. If you think as a causal player you can gather stuff in every area, do every would boss, be at every dungeon within minutes. You have not been paying attention to what the game is. There is more worth and feel in a world for the content you can do and adventures you go on.
There is going to be a lot of content around artisans, which is going to be a very time consuming task I'm sure in itself and perhaps you could play that as a game on its own. It is not mean I need this rare iron let me walk 10 minutes and pick it up, then 10 minutes for this other rare material.
OnyStyleMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
@Mag7spy
I have been following aoc since I backed them on kickstarter. I am well aware that I will not be able to experience everything in a day. I have already discussed this point if you care to read through earlier in the thread.
@Mag7spy
I have been following aoc since I backed them on kickstarter. I am well aware that I will not be able to experience everything in a day. I have already discussed this point if you care to read through earlier in the thread.
I read your original point and I don't agree with it. People have said you should plan your time accordingly. That means if you are exploring a new area there will be plenty to do on the way there. And when you get there you have your content to do there.
By your point you are effectively suggesting that you do nothing on your way to point a-b. Which would mean you are ignoring the content in the world or to explore on your way there.
If the game design has you running 30 min every time (in a loop constantly back and forth) without anything else to do then maybe you can make this point.
It is evident to everybody that you are conditioned to endgame and "destinations" and that is why you find traveling to be an issue.
You never experienced a real open world mmo, where all the action is at. Leveling, profiting and the conflict between players.
You are used to this:
Overland "exploring", which is being driven from the one MSQ related quest hub to the next.
An instanced raiding dungeon in every map area.
If you knew what open world pvp and leveling in an open world mmo is, as opposed to instanced BGs and raids, you wouldnt be QQing for 2 days now.
What you propose isnt QOL. What you propose is a change to this games goals and gameplay. It will never happen.
You are free to feel that your voice wasnt given the respect that it demands, turn petty and tell us more about "customer base losses" and what not, but ultimately by this point, knowing that this game isnt what suits your personal circumstances, you keep demanding changes.
You are not the only person who doesnt have that much time for an mmo. I dont have either. I however dont go to the beach wearing snow gear and wondering why isnt it less hot in this damn beach.
But here is what you are:
Somebody who instead of discussing anything fun or interesting, came right out the doors with "this wouldnt make it easier for ME. Change it."
Somebody that isnt open to a new experience and you prefer the same old crap.
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OnyStyleMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
@Mag7spy
I have been following aoc since I backed them on kickstarter. I am well aware that I will not be able to experience everything in a day. I have already discussed this point if you care to read through earlier in the thread.
I read your original point and I don't agree with it. People have said you should plan your time accordingly. That means if you are exploring a new area there will be plenty to do on the way there. And when you get there you have your content to do there.
By your point you are effectively suggesting that you do nothing on your way to point a-b. Which would mean you are ignoring the content in the world or to explore on your way there.
If the game design has you running 30 min every time (in a loop constantly back and forth) without anything else to do then maybe you can make this point.
So to your point, I agree that people should be planning. With that being said a 20 minute trip is nothing to sneeze at. At the start of the game, there will be plenty of things to explore and that 20 minute trip can turn into a 4+ hour excursion on a bunch of fun stuff! And I absolutely love that. But after you have explored the region, know what's happening, etc, you just want to get your shit done and leave.
I am also totally open to the idea that you have to travel to a place on foot before using any of these systems. But don't be fooled into thinking that every trip will always lead to those exciting excursions.
Additionally, as of current design there will supposedly be some sort of taxi system that you can go afk on to get to other nodes. So the only difference between what I am activating for and what is already in place is it to take place faster. Had the world been smaller like the original design, it wouldn't be an issue. But now that it's bigger I believe it is a new issue.
@Mag7spy
I have been following aoc since I backed them on kickstarter. I am well aware that I will not be able to experience everything in a day. I have already discussed this point if you care to read through earlier in the thread.
I read your original point and I don't agree with it. People have said you should plan your time accordingly. That means if you are exploring a new area there will be plenty to do on the way there. And when you get there you have your content to do there.
By your point you are effectively suggesting that you do nothing on your way to point a-b. Which would mean you are ignoring the content in the world or to explore on your way there.
If the game design has you running 30 min every time (in a loop constantly back and forth) without anything else to do then maybe you can make this point.
So to your point, I agree that people should be planning. With that being said a 20 minute trip is nothing to sneeze at. At the start of the game, there will be plenty of things to explore and that 20 minute trip can turn into a 4+ hour excursion on a bunch of fun stuff! And I absolutely love that. But after you have explored the region, know what's happening, etc, you just want to get your shit done and leave.
I am also totally open to the idea that you have to travel to a place on foot before using any of these systems. But don't be fooled into thinking that every trip will always lead to those exciting excursions.
Additionally, as of current design there will supposedly be some sort of taxi system that you can go afk on to get to other nodes. So the only difference between what I am activating for and what is already in place is it to take place faster. Had the world been smaller like the original design, it wouldn't be an issue. But now that it's bigger I believe it is a new issue.
Now instead of saying the world map is too big and wanting them to remove content, this is how you should have started and used BDO as an example with the auto path system. Your response given would have been much better.
OnyStyleMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited September 2022
@George_Black
How laughably false. If you don't think forums are a place to discuss potential flaws then stay out of such threads. You are completely wrong in both what I expect out of aoc and what I am used to. If you want to disagree, put forth an actual reason on why you think my suggestion is bad. Or don't. But if you are, be respectful.
@Mag7spy
I actually am against autopathing. I think it takes away from immersion. I also do not want less content, I don't know where you got that from. Heck the only proposed solution I had was airship travel between metropolises. That would be the exact same amount of content. I would also be happy with higher density like in previous design.
@George_Black
How laughably false. If you don't think forums are a place to discuss potential flaws then stay out of such threads. You are completely wrong in both what I expect out of aoc and what I am used to. If you want to disagree, put forth an actual reason on why you think my suggestion is bad. Or don't. But if you are, be respectful.
@Mag7spy
I actually am against autopathing. I think it takes away from immersion. I also do not want less content, I don't know where you got that from. Heck the only proposed solution I had was airship travel between metropolises. That would be the exact same amount of content. I would also be happy with higher density like in previous design.
So you just want a small map then, ya i cant get behind this. Tired of small mmorpgs.
OnyStyleMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
@Mag7spy
You...think the previous map was small? Whelp guess we would have to disagree there. When I played the alpha 1, which was a small portion of the original map size, I already thought it was quite large. Probably large enough for 2k people for it to feel populated outside of cities.
@Mag7spy
You...think the previous map was small? Whelp guess we would have to disagree there. When I played the alpha 1, which was a small portion of the original map size, I already thought it was quite large. Probably large enough for 2k people for it to feel populated outside of cities.
Think ill trust the developers knowing their game and the goals for the content they are adding.
All you need to do is not run around the entire map and your problem is solved play based on your time. If you are simply running from area to area with 0 intention of exploring and just wanting to get there id have to wonder if you are actually playing the game.
Your points aren't even clear on why you are saying you are going to spend a hour+ running around the map.
1. if your point is to spend limited time and gather everything i go back to my original post
2. if your point is you want to do every ow dungeon and don't want to spend time walking this is why people are suggesting WoW for you. If most the game is ow you don't need to be teleporting toe very spot play where you have fun with and slowly moves to a another area when you want.
3. If your point is you want to go to the desert then explore some the content on your way there no trip should be completely empty, there should be some content along the way.
Comments
It's about "people don't know what they want, even if they say they do". Making people socialize with a smaller local group would lead to a better feeling of community and would provide each player with connections to the people who play within the same location, so if you ever need help with something - you'd already know who to talk to and would be able to get to them quicker.
You think 10k person chat is some great social experience? There's at least 40 people in a 2 minute radius around/ within every node up to hundreds.
I'd rather a transmitter exist as some item for Comms within a certain range. Game is Civ vs Civ.
And proximity voice chat.
@NiKr
Even feuds and local shitfests are better than global
Transmitter between Nodes. Narrow Tower in Node. Possibly part of 'Town Hall'.
Guilds can use out of game comms since there's no way to stop them but for more in-game solutions I think "Gemini Transmitters" where 2 Magic Enchanted Stones can communicate long distance would work. Officer + Scout patrol leader communicate, with your officers with you. several scout parties means more Intel.
I guess Intrepid could aggressively stop out-of-game comms.
game is meant to feel big and have fog of war though.
On one side, zerg are for kind of specific targets that justify zerg. gathering so much people have to not be meaningless.
On other side, spying activity. Spies don't have to be your guild mate, it can be people you met while traveling discovering the world, had fun with and became friends. Such people can inform you that [guild] want to zerg [target] this evening.
And they could also give informations about juicy caravan or what else interesting to know
Traveling between large distances makes battling zergs easier. In fact, if travel remains super slow, then zergs will be near unstoppable. Bounty hunters may not be bountiful enough in that area to battle them. It would be trivial to get a large group of players in an area and start hobo killing. And because of how difficult it is to travel large distances, it would be difficult to go fight against. I am unsure you realize how long 20 minutes is. 20 minutes is a long time for a lot of people.
I think @ariatras has explained it best. The average player is older.
The reality is, you will not be staying within your nodes zone of influence (zoi) for 100% of the time. You say it is selfish to travel outside of your nodes zone of influence, but that is simply false. There are plenty of reasons one may need to travel outside of one's node. Gathering resources that can't be gotten in your own node, running out of quests within your own node, fighting other nodes bosses for crafting materials, checking out prices on other nodes markets, etc etc.
Finally, if you think Steven is like "Yeah, I want to make an MMO that is less popular than WoW and ff14" you are mistaken. While he understands that not everyone will enjoy all of the content, he also has said repeatedly that he wants there to be enjoyable content for everyone. Pvp is important but if you don't like pvp, there is STILL a place for those people with the awesome raid system. Don't like pve? That's okay too because the pvp system is expansive! Want to rp? They are targeting that audience too!
Steven's goal is quite literally the rebirth of the mmorpg genre.
Bingo. As an older mmo fan there is a lot I wish current mmos have (the community interaction is near dead these days). But that doesn't mean there aren't tons of QOL features that not having would kill any chance of success. And in a world where people's options are "spend 30 minutes running to my destination" or playing a game of league/call of duty/halo/fortnite/w.e other games people play these days.
Telling someone to "just plan ahead lul" is a horrible argument.
Airships as of current design, only exist between 2 scientific metropolises. A server feeling alive won't make a 30 minute run much less painful. If you think there is ENOUGH faster travel, then we are probably going to just have to disagree. There will be plenty of times when you will have to go to a completely different biome to collect resources (which will mean leaving your node).
Theres a place for casuals in the game. You'll just have to deal with achieving everything at a slower pace due to your circumstance.
Yes. I will be slower. I would be slower even with faster travel time. So what?
but the game is designed around this as a problematic and not a common basic decision.
Choices matters. If you are fare, it will be harder to intercept zerg movement. but also, while you move elsewhere you are a better place to get information from this specific "elsewhere (spy) you share with guildmate.
For the "hobo killing in a edefined area"
while global chat is a really big discussion with lot of people on both side
there is another thing : node chat. (which would need to know exactly how it works... which node because some node can be in ZOI of others, etc)... for such situation it could be a solution... "hey, the [guild] are killing everything [localisation] please help" and people from various guild will share with other (even not logged in) people gather, big fight. here we go.
This comes down to "I don't see a use for it so i don't want people to have it".
So me that isn't a reason for it to not be included, what you might feel as spam is not spam to another. Nor does that mean all people are going to be talking at the same time at the server, there will be plenty of people that don't talk or have it turned off.
There is plenty functional use, just because someone is across the map doesn't mean you can't go there and meet up. For politics there is no reason why you should be limited on chat as that can offer plenty of information on a lot of different fronts.
I can use the same point on "people don't know what they want, even if they say they do".
Are you going to sit in town and wait for people to talk to there while not doing content? You aren't going to be interacting that much since you are going to have to rely on friends list and discord to try to talk to a wider audience of people. Global chat can start conversations or you can see people are doing things in your area and simply go join up or do whatever. It makes the games feel more social, over just wondering around single player or with your group in the world.
Any issue you have with global chat is easily fixed in design from limitations, dividing each area and allowing people to opt into each area through tabs.
You aren't going to know who to talk to since you won't be able to interact with anyone since you are trying to rely on extremely old school methods with "say + yell" as options.
You are effectively forcing people to use discords and get out of the game to chat with people.
If there is no global chat I'll be forced to use discords for information on the server. Id rather do everything in game since ill be running a large guild.
Big fights are super cool and such clashes are something I look forward to. If you think a 20 minute travel time doesn't feel like a big decision, I think we value our own time very differently. Sure does 40 minutes (ONE WAY) feel like a bigger decision, yeah, but at that point I'll just spend my limited playtime a day on a game that actually respects my time.
I'd rather they not shrink the world to cater to people playing an hour a day.
If you want a casual experience where you don't want to plan what you're doing for the day or a game where travel does mean something then just play wow mage with its infinite teleports.
Like I said. You'll still be able to play the game. You'll just have to deal with the fact youre going to be slower. If you don't like that then it's not upto the developer to cater and change the entire world to suit you.
Casuals can go out and gather, do pve, do a world boss, arena or any number of things in their node.
If they decide to move or want more content outside of their vassal node system they'll have to plan the journey like the rest of us. But its not the developers issue or every other players issue that it'll take them longer.
Its on the casual players to understand that they're the one who has added their own handicap.
This is wrong, you will simply let mega guilds have a huge advantage on the server and crush you without you being able to ask anyone for help. Or use the politics on the server to your advantage and have enemy guilds against them back you up.
If i have a mega guild at the start of the game i dont want people using global chat. Easy win on the server.
Actually, that is exactly their job. MMOs die without appealing to people with limited amounts of time. It sounds to me you want the game to appeal to 5% hardcore player at the expense of the other 95%. If you want to spend 40 minutes traveling each way to go gathering, then you and I are going to fundamentally disagree on game design.
I think you are missing the point on AoC. You are not meant to do everything. If you think as a causal player you can gather stuff in every area, do every would boss, be at every dungeon within minutes. You have not been paying attention to what the game is. There is more worth and feel in a world for the content you can do and adventures you go on.
There is going to be a lot of content around artisans, which is going to be a very time consuming task I'm sure in itself and perhaps you could play that as a game on its own. It is not mean I need this rare iron let me walk 10 minutes and pick it up, then 10 minutes for this other rare material.
I have been following aoc since I backed them on kickstarter. I am well aware that I will not be able to experience everything in a day. I have already discussed this point if you care to read through earlier in the thread.
I read your original point and I don't agree with it. People have said you should plan your time accordingly. That means if you are exploring a new area there will be plenty to do on the way there. And when you get there you have your content to do there.
By your point you are effectively suggesting that you do nothing on your way to point a-b. Which would mean you are ignoring the content in the world or to explore on your way there.
If the game design has you running 30 min every time (in a loop constantly back and forth) without anything else to do then maybe you can make this point.
You never experienced a real open world mmo, where all the action is at. Leveling, profiting and the conflict between players.
You are used to this:
Overland "exploring", which is being driven from the one MSQ related quest hub to the next.
An instanced raiding dungeon in every map area.
If you knew what open world pvp and leveling in an open world mmo is, as opposed to instanced BGs and raids, you wouldnt be QQing for 2 days now.
What you propose isnt QOL. What you propose is a change to this games goals and gameplay. It will never happen.
You are free to feel that your voice wasnt given the respect that it demands, turn petty and tell us more about "customer base losses" and what not, but ultimately by this point, knowing that this game isnt what suits your personal circumstances, you keep demanding changes.
You are not the only person who doesnt have that much time for an mmo. I dont have either. I however dont go to the beach wearing snow gear and wondering why isnt it less hot in this damn beach.
But here is what you are:
Somebody who instead of discussing anything fun or interesting, came right out the doors with "this wouldnt make it easier for ME. Change it."
Somebody that isnt open to a new experience and you prefer the same old crap.
So to your point, I agree that people should be planning. With that being said a 20 minute trip is nothing to sneeze at. At the start of the game, there will be plenty of things to explore and that 20 minute trip can turn into a 4+ hour excursion on a bunch of fun stuff! And I absolutely love that. But after you have explored the region, know what's happening, etc, you just want to get your shit done and leave.
I am also totally open to the idea that you have to travel to a place on foot before using any of these systems. But don't be fooled into thinking that every trip will always lead to those exciting excursions.
Additionally, as of current design there will supposedly be some sort of taxi system that you can go afk on to get to other nodes. So the only difference between what I am activating for and what is already in place is it to take place faster. Had the world been smaller like the original design, it wouldn't be an issue. But now that it's bigger I believe it is a new issue.
The design wont change due to your input about fast traveling.
Now instead of saying the world map is too big and wanting them to remove content, this is how you should have started and used BDO as an example with the auto path system. Your response given would have been much better.
I have no issue with a auto path system.
How laughably false. If you don't think forums are a place to discuss potential flaws then stay out of such threads. You are completely wrong in both what I expect out of aoc and what I am used to. If you want to disagree, put forth an actual reason on why you think my suggestion is bad. Or don't. But if you are, be respectful.
@Mag7spy
I actually am against autopathing. I think it takes away from immersion. I also do not want less content, I don't know where you got that from. Heck the only proposed solution I had was airship travel between metropolises. That would be the exact same amount of content. I would also be happy with higher density like in previous design.
So you just want a small map then, ya i cant get behind this. Tired of small mmorpgs.
You...think the previous map was small? Whelp guess we would have to disagree there. When I played the alpha 1, which was a small portion of the original map size, I already thought it was quite large. Probably large enough for 2k people for it to feel populated outside of cities.
Think ill trust the developers knowing their game and the goals for the content they are adding.
All you need to do is not run around the entire map and your problem is solved play based on your time. If you are simply running from area to area with 0 intention of exploring and just wanting to get there id have to wonder if you are actually playing the game.
Your points aren't even clear on why you are saying you are going to spend a hour+ running around the map.
1. if your point is to spend limited time and gather everything i go back to my original post
2. if your point is you want to do every ow dungeon and don't want to spend time walking this is why people are suggesting WoW for you. If most the game is ow you don't need to be teleporting toe very spot play where you have fun with and slowly moves to a another area when you want.
3. If your point is you want to go to the desert then explore some the content on your way there no trip should be completely empty, there should be some content along the way.