IMPORTANCE OF AMMUNITION IN THE RANGER CLASS ARCHETI

Good afternoon, I open this discussion to be able to talk about the ammunition in the ranger class and why it is important that it be implemented, giving importance at the same time to the class of gathering wood and other minerals to be able to create ammunition of variable qualities with special effects for ranger class attacks, giving effects or boost to elemental skills, etc.

That they can be crafted and traded in the game market and depending on time in some regions to find quality materials for their creation.

In my opinion, I understand what many indicate that it is something that limits the ranger a lot, the detail is that I understand that they indicate all those disadvantages because they compare them with the other classes, without taking into account that the rangers and other classes of damage to distance have a style and soul different from the others, this is a class of physical or elemental damage of mechanical effort of the character's body causing damage at a distance in which he uses a bow of any possible material that is available or there may even be weapons of fire too, its not like magic which can be instant or anything like that, ammo would add some interesting complexity not to mention the added effects that can be depending on what ammo is used.

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Mag7spy

Azherae

I saw someone make a suggestion that I consider extremely good, even if unrealistic.

Have a Quiver that prevents the durability on the BOW falling when you use it, and treat that as 'Ammunition'.

You can do without it, that way, but anyone interested enough would almost always have a reason to use it.

This would also help for those long-term explorer rangers who want to be out in the world for days or weeks at a time, delaying their need to return to 'civilization'.

Other than that, I also agree that I have no problem with 'quiver that causes special arrow effect'. Just treat the Quiver's durability as the Ammo.

WHIT3ROS3

Asgerr

Buying ammo is a burden on a player both economically and time-wise.

Running out of them leaves you basically useless if most of your skills require you to use a bow to activate them. You then have to fight using melee weapons for which you're not entirely proficient with, nor have the option to use skills for.

Immersive in RP? Yes. Does it feel good to play? No.

Valox

Much like Asgerr said...

Is it immersive? Yes
Is it terrible gameplay? Also yes.

The importance of gameplay quality should take precedence in this. They can always add quivers that modify your "arrow", but having to keep track of an arrow count is a pointless and dated mechanic.

hleV

There should be quivers at least, even if cosmetic only.

BaSkA_9x2

I don't want to be forced to have arrows to play a Ranger.

I don't mind having optional buffs for equipping a quiver (that degrades over time, like all gear) which can modify my basic attacks and maybe even some abilities.

TL;DR: the cons of needing arrows to shoot a bow in an MMORPG are more than the pros, therefore not requiring arrows is the right decision.

bloodprophet

Unlimited arrows is like unlimited mana for a mage.
Both should have limits and not be eternally full.
Keeping track of arrows and not running out is part of paying attention and not mindlessly face rolling the keyboard.

burnerecks@yahoo.com

bloodprophet wrote: »

Unlimited arrows is like unlimited mana for a mage.
Both should have limits and not be eternally full.
Keeping track of arrows and not running out is part of paying attention and not mindlessly face rolling the keyboard.

So mages should need to go back to town to refill mana?

Lash

I would not mind if you would lose mana if you miss with a blind fire. I do not want to see siege gameplay devolve into endless spam into a choke point because there is 0 downside to doing so. You have to also keep in mind every class can put on a bow so it will be heavily encouraged.

CptBrownBeard

bloodprophet wrote: »

Unlimited arrows is like unlimited mana for a mage.
Both should have limits and not be eternally full.
Keeping track of arrows and not running out is part of paying attention and not mindlessly face rolling the keyboard.

That's a bit off the mark, I'd say. Since the most arrows used would be the basic attack, it would be more comparable to say that wands and magic staves should have a limited number of ranged charges, or a melee fighter should use up a stamina resource every swing. Which I don't see leading to fun gameplay.

Also:

"Yo, Cap! Why'd you stop DPSing the boss?!"

"I'm out of arrows."

"What? How are you out of arrows? Didn't you bring enough stacks?"

"I brought as many as I could hold. Between the mobs and the gank squads I'm lucky to have lasted this long...

"I'm gonna go melee."

"You're not specced for melee are you?"

"Hell naw." *insert Leroy meme*

Veeshan

Consumable arrows are kinda a tedious pain however having a quiver as an offhand type item for bow that carries unlimted amount of X ammo that function like a normal weapons with durability that lowers like the bow. So maybe you a quiver of shadow arrows for example this makes you do shadow dmg instead of physical for example or a quiver that provides the perk richoche where the arrows do less dmg but they bounce to a 2nd target.

Diamaht

General Ammo I would say no. It just becomes tedious and its not an economic driver, it just ends up getting sold at vendors so its a gold sink.

Special ammo sure. Things like traps and special arrows would be great. Special arrows would be things like explosive AOE ammo, elemental ammo etc. That could be a way for crafters to supply armies for a siege.

Aerlana

Not all thing from "good old time" was good
and imo, ammunition management was a "not good" thing.

Now, the ammunations are also part of the choices for fight. azherae gave a way (quiver giving "special arrow effects" )

but here is another : you have unlimited standart arrows.
Crafters can do some "special arrow" (like "ice arrow" "fire arrow" etc) Being consumable. you use it, and for a defined duration, you have their bonus. For most thing don't care, but because you will fight this raid boss fire elemental, you will take one or two of those consumable to change your arrow to ice arrow.

It is not the "arrow management" but remains the "ammunation choices depending on situation"

Sathrago

The best middle ground imo is to have infinite baseline ammo but have ammunition that upgrades with higher quality or alters the attack damage type. Which is what it sounds like they want to do. Use consumables to increase basic attack damage.

Mag7spy

Anyone else getting dejavu from this thread or is it just me?

Voidwalkers

What purpose would ammo serve *from the ranger's point of view* in Ashes though? Other than being an inventory & resource burden?

Some mentioned modifying attack attributes with custom ammo. While that's a good idea in general (that's how ammo works in Eve Online. Different guns use different ammos with different characteristics & attributes), in Ashes I feel it might overlap with the augments system and make things overly complicated.

e.g. I roll a ranger + mage -> scion. I'd expect the major selling point of this class is being able to enhance arrows with elemental damage through mage-augments. Custom elemental arrows could make this class redundant.
And what about ranger + rogue? Should poisonous arrows be a rogue augment or another custom ammo?
There's also the case of some primary ranger skills like Flame line. So if I can have custom ammo, why shouldn't I be able to, say, dip all my arrows in flamable oils and make all my basic attack shots "flame line" shots now?

And further more, custom ammo for just a single class could make things hard to balance IMO. Let's say in addition to elements, you differentiate arrows by their base materials. So on one side we have the average poor advanturers who shoot iron~steel arrows, and on the other side some hyper-rich player shooting ultra-expensive adamantium arrows being absolutely OP in pvp.
How would you go about balancing that?
a. Leave it be, as throwing-(in-game)-money-at-the-problem should totally be a thing?
b. Nerf the expensive adamantium arrows? but then what's the point for their existence now? (since they ARE expensive and should provide value that makes them worth the price)
c. Nerf ranger's base damage? But then what about those poor folks on iron ammo?
d. Remove adamantium arrows entirely? So now you can craft arrows out of iron, steel, mithril but somehow not adamantium (unless you have a good lore reason)? Talk about immersion now.

I mean sure for crafters & gatherers ammos mean another income source, but for the players using it, if a mechanism does not provide balanced, meaningful, interesting gameplay, then IMO it's better for the game's sake to just leave it out.

Yup may be quiver offhands could be a thing ...

Ludullu

Mag7spy wrote: »

Anyone else getting dejavu from this thread or is it just me?

A big one.

Nerror

No thanks to ammo.

Strevi

bloodprophet wrote: »

Unlimited arrows is like unlimited mana for a mage.
Both should have limits and not be eternally full.
Keeping track of arrows and not running out is part of paying attention and not mindlessly face rolling the keyboard.

As a new character, I see myself searching to pick arrows from the ground after the battles

And darts, throwing knives, throwing axes too... why would throwing axes return to the thrower safely?

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