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IMPORTANCE OF AMMUNITION IN THE RANGER CLASS ARCHETI

Good afternoon, I open this discussion to be able to talk about the ammunition in the ranger class and why it is important that it be implemented, giving importance at the same time to the class of gathering wood and other minerals to be able to create ammunition of variable qualities with special effects for ranger class attacks, giving effects or boost to elemental skills, etc.


That they can be crafted and traded in the game market and depending on time in some regions to find quality materials for their creation.

In my opinion, I understand what many indicate that it is something that limits the ranger a lot, the detail is that I understand that they indicate all those disadvantages because they compare them with the other classes, without taking into account that the rangers and other classes of damage to distance have a style and soul different from the others, this is a class of physical or elemental damage of mechanical effort of the character's body causing damage at a distance in which he uses a bow of any possible material that is available or there may even be weapons of fire too, its not like magic which can be instant or anything like that, ammo would add some interesting complexity not to mention the added effects that can be depending on what ammo is used.

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Comments

  • No
  • AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I saw someone make a suggestion that I consider extremely good, even if unrealistic.

    Have a Quiver that prevents the durability on the BOW falling when you use it, and treat that as 'Ammunition'.

    You can do without it, that way, but anyone interested enough would almost always have a reason to use it.

    This would also help for those long-term explorer rangers who want to be out in the world for days or weeks at a time, delaying their need to return to 'civilization'.

    Other than that, I also agree that I have no problem with 'quiver that causes special arrow effect'. Just treat the Quiver's durability as the Ammo.
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  • Buying ammo is a burden on a player both economically and time-wise.

    Running out of them leaves you basically useless if most of your skills require you to use a bow to activate them. You then have to fight using melee weapons for which you're not entirely proficient with, nor have the option to use skills for.

    Immersive in RP? Yes. Does it feel good to play? No.
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  • ValoxValox Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Much like Asgerr said...

    Is it immersive? Yes
    Is it terrible gameplay? Also yes.

    The importance of gameplay quality should take precedence in this. They can always add quivers that modify your "arrow", but having to keep track of an arrow count is a pointless and dated mechanic.
  • There should be quivers at least, even if cosmetic only.
  • BaSkA13_BaSkA13_ Member
    edited September 30
    I don't want to be forced to have arrows to play a Ranger.

    I don't mind having optional buffs for equipping a quiver (that degrades over time, like all gear) which can modify my basic attacks and maybe even some abilities.

    TL;DR: the cons of needing arrows to shoot a bow in an MMORPG are more than the pros, therefore not requiring arrows is the right decision.
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  • bloodprophetbloodprophet Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Unlimited arrows is like unlimited mana for a mage.
    Both should have limits and not be eternally full.
    Keeping track of arrows and not running out is part of paying attention and not mindlessly face rolling the keyboard.
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  • EuthenasiaEuthenasia Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Unlimited arrows is like unlimited mana for a mage.
    Both should have limits and not be eternally full.
    Keeping track of arrows and not running out is part of paying attention and not mindlessly face rolling the keyboard.

    So mages should need to go back to town to refill mana?
  • I would not mind if you would lose mana if you miss with a blind fire. I do not want to see siege gameplay devolve into endless spam into a choke point because there is 0 downside to doing so. You have to also keep in mind every class can put on a bow so it will be heavily encouraged.
  • CptBrownBeardCptBrownBeard Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Unlimited arrows is like unlimited mana for a mage.
    Both should have limits and not be eternally full.
    Keeping track of arrows and not running out is part of paying attention and not mindlessly face rolling the keyboard.

    That's a bit off the mark, I'd say. Since the most arrows used would be the basic attack, it would be more comparable to say that wands and magic staves should have a limited number of ranged charges, or a melee fighter should use up a stamina resource every swing. Which I don't see leading to fun gameplay.

    Also:

    "Yo, Cap! Why'd you stop DPSing the boss?!"

    "I'm out of arrows."

    "What? How are you out of arrows? Didn't you bring enough stacks?"

    "I brought as many as I could hold. Between the mobs and the gank squads I'm lucky to have lasted this long...

    "I'm gonna go melee."

    "You're not specced for melee are you?"

    "Hell naw." *insert Leroy meme*
  • Consumable arrows are kinda a tedious pain however having a quiver as an offhand type item for bow that carries unlimted amount of X ammo that function like a normal weapons with durability that lowers like the bow. So maybe you a quiver of shadow arrows for example this makes you do shadow dmg instead of physical for example or a quiver that provides the perk richoche where the arrows do less dmg but they bounce to a 2nd target.
  • DiamahtDiamaht Member, Braver of Worlds, Alpha One
    General Ammo I would say no. It just becomes tedious and its not an economic driver, it just ends up getting sold at vendors so its a gold sink.

    Special ammo sure. Things like traps and special arrows would be great. Special arrows would be things like explosive AOE ammo, elemental ammo etc. That could be a way for crafters to supply armies for a siege.
  • AerlanaAerlana Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Not all thing from "good old time" was good
    and imo, ammunition management was a "not good" thing.

    Now, the ammunations are also part of the choices for fight. azherae gave a way (quiver giving "special arrow effects" )

    but here is another : you have unlimited standart arrows.
    Crafters can do some "special arrow" (like "ice arrow" "fire arrow" etc) Being consumable. you use it, and for a defined duration, you have their bonus. For most thing don't care, but because you will fight this raid boss fire elemental, you will take one or two of those consumable to change your arrow to ice arrow.

    It is not the "arrow management" but remains the "ammunation choices depending on situation"
  • The best middle ground imo is to have infinite baseline ammo but have ammunition that upgrades with higher quality or alters the attack damage type. Which is what it sounds like they want to do. Use consumables to increase basic attack damage.
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  • Anyone else getting dejavu from this thread or is it just me?
  • VoidwalkersVoidwalkers Member
    edited October 1
    What purpose would ammo serve *from the ranger's point of view* in Ashes though? Other than being an inventory & resource burden?

    Some mentioned modifying attack attributes with custom ammo. While that's a good idea in general (that's how ammo works in Eve Online. Different guns use different ammos with different characteristics & attributes), in Ashes I feel it might overlap with the augments system and make things overly complicated.

    e.g. I roll a ranger + mage -> scion. I'd expect the major selling point of this class is being able to enhance arrows with elemental damage through mage-augments. Custom elemental arrows could make this class redundant.
    And what about ranger + rogue? Should poisonous arrows be a rogue augment or another custom ammo?
    There's also the case of some primary ranger skills like Flame line. So if I can have custom ammo, why shouldn't I be able to, say, dip all my arrows in flamable oils and make all my basic attack shots "flame line" shots now?

    And further more, custom ammo for just a single class could make things hard to balance IMO. Let's say in addition to elements, you differentiate arrows by their base materials. So on one side we have the average poor advanturers who shoot iron~steel arrows, and on the other side some hyper-rich player shooting ultra-expensive adamantium arrows being absolutely OP in pvp.
    How would you go about balancing that?
    a. Leave it be, as throwing-(in-game)-money-at-the-problem should totally be a thing?
    b. Nerf the expensive adamantium arrows? but then what's the point for their existence now? (since they ARE expensive and should provide value that makes them worth the price)
    c. Nerf ranger's base damage? But then what about those poor folks on iron ammo?
    d. Remove adamantium arrows entirely? So now you can craft arrows out of iron, steel, mithril but somehow not adamantium (unless you have a good lore reason)? Talk about immersion now.

    I mean sure for crafters & gatherers ammos mean another income source, but for the players using it, if a mechanism does not provide balanced, meaningful, interesting gameplay, then IMO it's better for the game's sake to just leave it out.

    Yup may be quiver offhands could be a thing ...
  • NiKrNiKr Member
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Anyone else getting dejavu from this thread or is it just me?
    A big one.
  • NerrorNerror Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    No thanks to ammo.
  • StreviStrevi Member
    Unlimited arrows is like unlimited mana for a mage.
    Both should have limits and not be eternally full.
    Keeping track of arrows and not running out is part of paying attention and not mindlessly face rolling the keyboard.

    As a new character, I see myself searching to pick arrows from the ground after the battles :lol:
    And darts, throwing knives, throwing axes too... why would throwing axes return to the thrower safely?
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  • Yes to ammo but only when all the other classes have consumeables aswell.
  • ariatrasariatras Member, Founder
    I absolutely want ammunition.
    I want it paired with a slower attack speed too, the bow shots seemed just a little too quick.
    I feel like the Ranger I saw has absolutely nothing to manage, at all. No resources (except health) and I feel that arrows should absolutely be a thing. Everyone can use ranged weapons, but have classes such as rangers have some flavour in which they can create arrows from stuff around them. Everyone can buy the standard arrow from NPCs and all. But rangers can make arrows based on the stuff around them, and potentially sell them to say a fighter that uses bows.

    Same with magic type classes, some of the more ritual type spells will definitely benefit from components.
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  • Ammo as a resource is a bad idea. Yall have only thought about it through a Ranger's perspective (or a class that specializes in damage). You cant forget that EVERYONE can pick up a bow and use it. You would seriously gimp the Cleric that uses a bow to save their mana for healing. Now someone with much less damage would be burdened with carrying ammo (ostensibly taking up even more inventory space than a Ranger). You create an imbalance, unless you want melee weapons to run on an ammo system as well...
  • I have to agree with others that ammo as a consumable resource isn't a good idea. Yeah it adds "realism" to the game, but not all realism is an improvement.

    Personally I would rather just have quivers act as improvements to shots fired (ex: quiver of flaming arrows, quiver of lightning arrows, etc) with small boosts than as a needed money/time sink.
  • CROW3CROW3 Member
    I have to agree with others that ammo as a consumable resource isn't a good idea. Yeah it adds "realism" to the game, but not all realism is an improvement.

    Personally I would rather just have quivers act as improvements to shots fired (ex: quiver of flaming arrows, quiver of lightning arrows, etc) with small boosts than as a needed money/time sink.

    This is exactly what Wolcen did, and it worked quite well. I’d rather crafting acumen go towards quivers than ammo, as managing ammo isn’t gameplay, it’s just tedious for the sake of being tedious.

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  • SapiverenusSapiverenus Member
    edited October 5
    ok

    99 rangers rain hell upon an enemy node. No one survives the 24 hours of onslaught. No one survies the 48 hour onslaught. With a 280 person guild, the hell continues for a week straight. . .

    Now ammo is required. They rain death for an hour then run off to resupply. Maybe another 66 people are required to keep them supplied. This is a higher effort Ranger Grief now, with fragile logistics and higher player requirement. This stretches the Fun Project of Arrow Hell thin.

    Constraints necessitate and promote higher forms of organization, and weaken exploits.

    Ammo would complicate any Fun that is based on Endurance and Death.
  • CROW3CROW3 Member
    edited October 5
    So you want to make 99% of the player archery experience more tedious because of a beyond rare edge case you thought up?

    No.
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  • SapiverenusSapiverenus Member
    edited October 5
    It illustrates the issue well enough.
    Max ammo someone can carry can be anywhere from 1 to 9999999999999.
    Unlimited ammo can be anywhere from 1 - 100% power vs special/ limited ammo.
    Professions can be more or less essential.
    Logistics can be more or less essential.
    Higher organization can be more or less essential.
    Not everyone wants to play a twitchy shooter and not everyone wants to play a MOBA and not everyone wants to do professions and not everyone wants to handle organization; but someone does.
  • Arrows are boring, id rather a quiver holding arrow types that would be part of your gear akin to your offhand like a shield.
    (same way Path of exile does it)
  • HeliuxHeliux Member
    Thank u....buut

    No son necesarias!
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