Greetings, glorious testers!

Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest news on Alpha Two.
Check out general Announcements here to see the latest news on Ashes of Creation & Intrepid Studios.

To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.

Freeholds P2W?

You can only have one freehold per account.

Doesn't this massively incentivize having multiple accounts?
If my alts can't own property doesn't that make them much less useful?
If I need to pay $15 a month per alt account how is that not P2W?
«134

Comments

  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Don't forget that you can't do everything on just one account. So the artisan system is p2w too. Oh, and the guild system is p2w too cause you can just make your own guild with your alt accounts and reap all the benefits yourself. Oh, and the node mayorship is p2w too cause you can just take up all the citizen slots of a scientific node with your alt accounts and become a forever mayor.

    In other words, the whole game is p2w cause you can just pay for more accounts. I really think they should just go f2p :)
  • NiKr wrote: »
    Don't forget that you can't do everything on just one account. So the artisan system is p2w too. Oh, and the guild system is p2w too cause you can just make your own guild with your alt accounts and reap all the benefits yourself. Oh, and the node mayorship is p2w too cause you can just take up all the citizen slots of a scientific node with your alt accounts and become a forever mayor.

    In other words, the whole game is p2w cause you can just pay for more accounts. I really think they should just go f2p :)

    The artisan system seems to work on same account alts. The only way it doesn't is if you need more freehold space for different buildings. My alts could be master gatherers while my main is a master processor/crafter.

    Guilds with your own alt accounts doesn't work because multiboxing is against the rules. Not to mention how hard soloing raids would be if even possible.
    ^ Same thing for alt accounts being every citizen. You wouldn't be able to defend the node by yourself.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    worddog wrote: »
    The artisan system seems to work on same account alts. The only way it doesn't is if you need more freehold space for different buildings. My alts could be master gatherers while my main is a master processor/crafter.

    Guilds with your own alt accounts doesn't work because multiboxing is against the rules. Not to mention how hard soloing raids would be if even possible.
    ^ Same thing for alt accounts being every citizen. You wouldn't be able to defend the node by yourself.
    Well, that's just a defeatist attitude towards the situation. If freeholds can be seen as p2w, even though they aren't, I'm sure other mechanics, that could in any way benefit from having several alt accs, could be made to appear p2w too.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    edited October 2022
    If freeholds are pay to win, then is having a friend that also has an account also pay to win?

    I mean, you can't do anything with a second account that you also can't do with a friend.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Noaani wrote: »
    If freeholds are pay to win, then is having a friend that also has an account also pay to win?

    I mean, you can't do anything with a second account that you also can't do with a friend.
    Ah, the classic "don't have $100, have 100 friends with a $1 each".
  • HinotoriHinotori Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Noaani wrote: »
    If freeholds are pay to win, then is having a friend that also has an account also pay to win?

    I mean, you can't do anything with a second account that you also can't do with a friend.
    Yay friendship!
    74l6yw8lqlki.jpg

    xrds4ytk7z7j.gif
    The world is beautiful whenever you're here.
    And all the emptiness inside disappears.
  • JustVineJustVine Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    NiKr wrote: »
    Don't forget that you can't do everything on just one account. So the artisan system is p2w too. Oh, and the guild system is p2w too cause you can just make your own guild with your alt accounts and reap all the benefits yourself. Oh, and the node mayorship is p2w too cause you can just take up all the citizen slots of a scientific node with your alt accounts and become a forever mayor.

    In other words, the whole game is p2w cause you can just pay for more accounts. I really think they should just go f2p :)

    I know you think some of these are jokes but if a rich person wants to rule a node, they can and will. It isn't particularly more difficult than what I have seen done in other games. It is pretty easy to avoid such a place in your gameplay once you find out. It's also less effective than a guild node but I expect such a node would be very guild friendly.

    Labor is cheap. 15$ a month also cheap. I don't necessarily mind or care about this type of p2w though. But they sure are paying to win.... I think I would even go as far as to say that such p2w is probably the healthiest kind you can have. They may think of you as their content as many a whale do, but ultimately they are the server's content, they just don't know it yet.
    Node coffers: Single Payer Capitalism in action
  • BaSkA_9x2BaSkA_9x2 Member, Alpha Two
    edited October 2022
    Forget about freeholds, the real advantage is using alts' inventory from those accounts as "infinite" bank space completely safe from Node Sieges.

    So yes, any subscription based game is P2W regardless if it has a Cash Shop or not if you can get any advantage for having multiple accounts.

    The only solution to this "problem" is to require some sort of government ID to create an account, which is a dogshit thing to do, so no thanks.

    There won't be anything stopping people from having multiple accounts and that's fine because, unless they cheat, they'll still have to spend the same amount of time like anybody else to "win".
    🎶Galo é Galo o resto é bosta🎶
  • unknownsystemerrorunknownsystemerror Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited October 2022
    BaSkA13 wrote: »
    Forget about freeholds, the real advantage is having infinite bank space completely safe from Node Sieges.

    You realize that freeholds can be destroyed just like the bank in a node and have the same restrictions on them during siege declarations as the node, right?
    Or maybe you plan to put all your resources on alts, park them on your freehold, and then log them out. Logging them in only to move those resources from the alt to the freeholds storage for crafting. Small problem in that we know that personal carry is meant to be in whatever unit they decide of 100 character/1000 mule/10000 caravan. But since they still have yet to give an answer on weight vs volume, it is all just speculation till they do. But it is not "completely safe". You could lose that freehold, and then you would have a bunch of low level alts parked in the wilderness chock full of whatever you had stuffed them with. Pinata time!
    south-park-rabble-rabble-rabbl-53b58d315aa49.jpg
  • BaSkA_9x2BaSkA_9x2 Member, Alpha Two
    edited October 2022
    You realize that freeholds can be destroyed just like the bank in a node and have the same restrictions on them during siege declarations as the node, right?

    Of course I do, but I apologize I wasn't clear enough with my sentence, I'll even edit it, my fault. What I meant was:

    "Forget about freeholds, the real advantage is using alts' inventory as "infinite" bank space completely safe from Node Sieges."

    In other words, multiple freeholds are not even the biggest advantage, the inventory space from multiple accounts is.
    🎶Galo é Galo o resto é bosta🎶
  • AbaratAbarat Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited October 2022
    worddog wrote: »
    You can only have one freehold per account.

    Doesn't this massively incentivize having multiple accounts?
    If my alts can't own property doesn't that make them much less useful?
    If I need to pay $15 a month per alt account how is that not P2W?

    Another week old account ... imagine that.

    We should only allow people to have one account... so its fair.

    It is also unfair that some players will be able to play more hours per day/week that me... we should limit the amount a player can play.

    I have to work during some periods of the day... no one should be allowed to play during that time.. just to be fair.
  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    edited October 2022
    worddog wrote: »
    NiKr wrote: »
    Don't forget that you can't do everything on just one account. So the artisan system is p2w too. Oh, and the guild system is p2w too cause you can just make your own guild with your alt accounts and reap all the benefits yourself. Oh, and the node mayorship is p2w too cause you can just take up all the citizen slots of a scientific node with your alt accounts and become a forever mayor.

    In other words, the whole game is p2w cause you can just pay for more accounts. I really think they should just go f2p :)

    The artisan system seems to work on same account alts. The only way it doesn't is if you need more freehold space for different buildings. My alts could be master gatherers while my main is a master processor/crafter.

    Guilds with your own alt accounts doesn't work because multiboxing is against the rules. Not to mention how hard soloing raids would be if even possible.
    ^ Same thing for alt accounts being every citizen. You wouldn't be able to defend the node by yourself.

    he was being sarcastic...

    edit: steven said multiple accounts are fine as long as oyu keep that progression in that other character and you dont give it to your main. but people will always find a way... hahaha
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    edited October 2022
    JustVine wrote: »
    I know you think some of these are jokes but if a rich person wants to rule a node, they can and will. It isn't particularly more difficult than what I have seen done in other games. It is pretty easy to avoid such a place in your gameplay once you find out. It's also less effective than a guild node but I expect such a node would be very guild friendly.

    Labor is cheap. 15$ a month also cheap. I don't necessarily mind or care about this type of p2w though. But they sure are paying to win.... I think I would even go as far as to say that such p2w is probably the healthiest kind you can have. They may think of you as their content as many a whale do, but ultimately they are the server's content, they just don't know it yet.
    I mean, I was only half joking. And I didn't even think about paying others to use your alts, but yeah, that'd be a much better way to utilize this "exploit". But as Baska said, at that point any paid game is p2w. Hell, literally any game would be, unless they put all kinds of limits on gameplay. Which was mainly the reason for sarcasm in my original comment.
  • Taleof2CitiesTaleof2Cities Member, Alpha Two
    edited October 2022
    Steven said there’s no pay-to-win and no pay-for-convenience in Ashes. Based on what I’ve seen so far, I’m inclined to agree.

    If there are whales that (a) can pay for AND (b) have time for leveling characters on multiple accounts … be my guest.

    I personally don’t have the time for that kind of commitment.
  • Steven said there’s no pay-to-win and no pay-for-convenience in Ashes. Based on what I’ve seen so far, I’m inclined to agree.

    If there are whales that (a) can pay for AND (b) have time for leveling characters on multiple accounts … be my guest.

    I personally don’t have the time for that kind of commitment.

    $15 a month isn't really a whale.
    And leveling a single alt character isn't much of a time commitment either.
  • LineagerLineager Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Steven said there’s no pay-to-win and no pay-for-convenience in Ashes. Based on what I’ve seen so far, I’m inclined to agree.

    If there are whales that (a) can pay for AND (b) have time for leveling characters on multiple accounts … be my guest.

    I personally don’t have the time for that kind of commitment.

    To solve P2W problem, Intrepid must deal with the problem of gold-sellers and fight them from dusk to dawn. Other P2W mechanics mostly comes behind of that problem.

  • CROW3CROW3 Member, Alpha Two
    This is stretching P2W beyond its common definition.
    AoC+Dwarf+750v3.png
  • CROW3 wrote: »
    This is stretching P2W beyond its common definition.

    They specifically view RMT as P2W so I'm pretty sure they're against more than just direct P2W. I'm not saying it needs to be changed I'm just bringing it up for discussion.
  • pyrealpyreal Member, Warrior of Old, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Play to Win, right?

    I think that's the direction they are going.
  • pyreal wrote: »
    Play to Win, right?

    I think that's the direction they are going.

    There isn't a system in the game that pays you $15 a month so you can get another account to bypass the property restrictions.
  • Taleof2CitiesTaleof2Cities Member, Alpha Two
    edited October 2022
    @worddog

    It's not surprising that everyone has their own personal definition of "Pay-To-Win".

    Here's a google search for the basic definition of the term ... so everyone is using the right context going forward:

    Pay-to-win, abbreviated as P2W, describes an aspect of a game where players are allowed to get an advantage with real-world currency to purchase in-game items. Pay-to-win games usually offer better weapons, armor, character abilities, or in-game currency to players as microtransactions.

    Freeholds are not something that advance your character's abilities, weapons, armor, or in-game currency.

    Which also explains why the first few replies in your thread were sarcastic.
  • CROW3CROW3 Member, Alpha Two
    I’d rather focus on multi boxers, gold sellers/buyers, and bots. Just having an alt account isn’t necessarily a p2w issue.
    AoC+Dwarf+750v3.png
  • SongRuneSongRune Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited October 2022
    It's not surprising that everyone has their own personal definition of "Pay-To-Win".

    Here's a google search for the basic definition of the term ... so everyone is using the right context going forward:

    Pay-to-win, abbreviated as P2W, describes an aspect of a game where players are allowed to get an advantage with real-world currency to purchase in-game items. Pay-to-win games usually offer better weapons, armor, character abilities, or in-game currency to players as microtransactions.

    Freeholds are not something that advance your character's abilities, weapons, armor, or in-game currency.

    Additional freeholds are likely to grant additional in-game currency by giving you access to more money-making activities and 'tools' than you can fit in a single freehold.

    Many people rightfully consider things that multiply economic power, such as "faster crafting" or "more farm spaces" as pay to win. A reasonable argument can be made for also including increased economic adaptability due to the additional opportunities for profit that are available if you are able to nimbly react to economic shifts.

  • Freeholds are not something that advance your character's abilities, weapons, armor, or in-game currency.

    Which also explains why the first few replies in your thread were sarcastic.

    Freeholds are literally the biggest thing in the game for processors. You literally cannot process certain resources without a freehold.

    Why would you comment so strongly on something you know nothing about.
  • HinotoriHinotori Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    SongRune wrote: »
    It's not surprising that everyone has their own personal definition of "Pay-To-Win".

    Here's a google search for the basic definition of the term ... so everyone is using the right context going forward:

    Pay-to-win, abbreviated as P2W, describes an aspect of a game where players are allowed to get an advantage with real-world currency to purchase in-game items. Pay-to-win games usually offer better weapons, armor, character abilities, or in-game currency to players as microtransactions.

    Freeholds are not something that advance your character's abilities, weapons, armor, or in-game currency.

    Additional freeholds are likely to grant additional in-game currency by giving you access to more money-making activities and 'tools' than you can fit in a single freehold.

    Many people rightfully consider things that multiply economic power, such as "faster crafting" or "more farm spaces" as pay to win. A reasonable argument can be made for also including increased economic adaptability due to the additional opportunities for profit that are available if you are able to nimbly react to economic shifts.

    While this is true this money making ability doesn't appear out of thin air. Youre still going to have to upgrade the freehold and level the separate character as well as purchasing the plot and paying the relevant taxes along with levelling your alts classes and scouring for the materials you'll be using for the craft on that character or your main.

    Youre literally taking the game and turning yourself into a no-lifer to earn a couple extra credits and be less social.

    If people want to reach that level of min/max gold per hour and are happy to give up life and 15 dollars to do so then power to them.

    oyudpxwl7imk.gif
    xrds4ytk7z7j.gif
    The world is beautiful whenever you're here.
    And all the emptiness inside disappears.
  • CROW3CROW3 Member, Alpha Two
    Let’s just use South Korea’s SSN approach for account creation.

    Excessive murderhobos can then be reported to the IRS. 😉
    AoC+Dwarf+750v3.png
  • CraikenCraiken Member
    edited October 2022
    This could be an issue, but it depends on a lot of factors that we can't analyze yet. I hope they'll keep it in mind during testing.

    Edit: Would it be terrible to allow alts to have their own freeholds and housing? That could just solve the potential problem right away.
  • Craiken wrote: »
    This could be an issue, but it depends on a lot of factors that we can't analyze yet. I hope they'll keep it in mind during testing.

    Edit: Would it be terrible to allow alts to have their own freeholds and housing? That could just solve the potential problem right away.

    I think the idea is that freeholds are supposed to be really massive achievements, so they don't like the idea of one player having multiple. But I don't think they are accounting for what super hardcore players will do.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Craiken wrote: »
    Edit: Would it be terrible to allow alts to have their own freeholds and housing? That could just solve the potential problem right away.
    And create another problem. That is, potentially increasing the amount of housing by 8+ times. The world already had to be increased to accommodate 10k citizens. If alts could get separate housing and freeholds the game would have to support around 80k freeholds (or more if we'll have more than 8 char slots).
  • NiKr wrote: »
    Craiken wrote: »
    Edit: Would it be terrible to allow alts to have their own freeholds and housing? That could just solve the potential problem right away.
    And create another problem. That is, potentially increasing the amount of housing by 8+ times. The world already had to be increased to accommodate 10k citizens. If alts could get separate housing and freeholds the game would have to support around 80k freeholds (or more if we'll have more than 8 char slots).

    They should never increase the amount of housing/property available. Land needs to be as scarce as possible to incentivize wars.
Sign In or Register to comment.