Greetings, glorious testers!
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest news on Alpha Two.
Check out general Announcements here to see the latest news on Ashes of Creation & Intrepid Studios.
To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest news on Alpha Two.
Check out general Announcements here to see the latest news on Ashes of Creation & Intrepid Studios.
To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
They are called testers. And there are people that stumble upon bugs/exploits and report them. I found one in New World. Not a huge thing. You could remove the weight on some materials on you, if i remember correctly. After i thought it had happened, i did a couple of test to see if it was really going on. Then i reported it. You seem to not be able to seperate people who don't report it and do it for personal gain, and those that actualy report exploits/bugs. You are on your own. No one agrees with you, because it's a ridiculous idea. There is a difference between using an exploit on purpose, and by accident.
I mean, your logic here is faulty.
You previously said that it is not regular players that are finding exploits, it is exploiters.
If what you want is a game where the damage from exploits is minimized, then surely you dont want those exploiters in the game.
I mean, if a game has no exploiters, no one will find the exploits.
As such, in order to minimize the damage of the NEXT exploit, you ban all exploiters of the current exploit.
I mean, we all want a game where exploits do the last amount of damage as possible. That is why we dont want exploiters, they are the ones that deal damage to a game when they find exploits. Getting rid of them now means they cant do that damage in the future - even if they have already done some now.
I put in over 1,200hrs in NW, and did not experience a great deal of impact from exploiters as you have suggested occurred. There were a few days of market place down time on a few occassions which was annoying at the time but not a game killer.
My only experience is the server I played on specifically so it's possible other servers had different experiences. I also heard from a couple other ones that they had a similar experience to mine.
Did you follow the end game markets or were you playing a more relaxed playstyle? I'm sure most players would not have noticed the issue, as it only pertained to the highest level of play.
The problem was that some of the best and most important items in the game were being duplicated and sold on the market for much cheaper than usual. For a brief time this destroyed the late game economy. Crafters were genuinely useless as a market. After they banned the players that were duping items, they said that the duplication bug was fixed. It was not fixed. People continued to dupe high level items and the only people selling high level items on the market were exploiters, not actual crafters. I left about a month or two after the duping started. The game just felt really stupid at that point from an economic perspective.
I do plan to try the game again once fresh start servers come online in November though. Hopefully it's good enough now to tide me over while I wait for alpha-2.
Yeah but no.
Because, if exploiters are banned, you don't have to beat them because they don't have account anymore.
With a strict rule of ban, those who reports AND dont exploit it are those who don't lose their account, the meta becomes "keeping my account usable and not losing my 10, 100, 1000 hours of gameplay already done"
Now, i admit the ban at the first exploit is maybe not the best way, but the penalty should be big enough to have people understand a big "no" ... like, "you exploited it 4 hours, managed to collect around 1k gold ? ok, lets set your current gold amount at -1k (so you lose the gold made during hours, gold you had before and... 1k more) and if caught again ? character(s) deleted. Caught a third time ? there the account deletion
If not ban, any really hard punishment is the only way to go with bug exploiter in game with persistant systems.
Exploiters are people who find bugs and chose to use them. some people, here on forum are able to find them, but because like you, they want a game with low exploit damage, they will help to find them during alpha/beta, But also AFTER the game release.
If you want a game with low exploit damage, use your knowledge to find exploitable bugs to report them, but don't use it. the simple fact you use it increase the damages from this exploit...
The idea of banning exploiters just doesn't work though. There will always be more exploiters as long as the exploit exists.
If exploiters are water, than exploits are the river, you need to damn the river, not try to scoop up all the water, more water will always be coming.
Effectively what you want is new world where you get a slap on the risk for exploiting so people do it since they know they won't be punished.
Litterial 101 if no punishment exist more people do it. I don't understand how you actually have the logic backwards, it sounds like you want to exploit.
If you want to rely on banning exploiters instead of fixing exploits, you'll end up playing a game where exploits are the meta.
If you want to ban exploiters, you will have more difficulty in detecting exploits.
By allowing exploiters to exist, you create a metal detector for exploits. Instead of only the top guilds knowing secret exploits that they can use for their own gain, random players can show the world these exploits and the developers can more easily fix them.
The reason you don't understand what I'm saying is because you don't understand that more people exploiting actually leads to less exploits. Once you fix all the exploits it doesn't matter if the exploiters are banned or not, they have nothing to exploit.
it seems you consider there is choice between ban exploiters and fix the bugs.
But no, you can do both at same time. no one here says "no problem with exploitable bugs, exploiters are problem"
The topic is not "should the biggest bugs be fixed asap or no ?" but "should exploiter be banned or no ?"
Answer is "Yes" on both.
You mistake is imagine that a mmorpg can reach the "no bug" ... totally impossible, there will be bugs.
Players have to report bugs if they love the game and want it to continue to live long days. Devs have to fix those bug asap. And Game Masters have to ban people who don't care about the game future and exploit it.
Edit : also, you do another mistake : only exploiters are efficient to find bugs. it is false, exploiters is people efficient to find bug and who decide to get benefits from them. There are people that know really well how to find bugs... and prefer to report it, without fucking up the game economy thru exploit.
Why is your way of thinking so backwards, it literarily feels like you want to defend exploiters deep down.
Why would they not be fixing exploits when they are found, you suggesting they are banning and not fixing is really weird that is a red flag.
If someone is exploiting their systems are going to find it out by people gaining and doing weird things and accounts should be flagged.
No more people exploiting leads to bigger issues and people quitting the game as it shows the devs don't care or have made a potentially game with a bunch of issues. Less people exploiting is just less people exploiting which means less people that will be banned.
I don't understand how your logic could be so bad unless you actually are salty about not having exploited yourself in games. The fact you want everyone to exploit is honestly one of the most foolish things i've ever heard. Any person that played new world would be laughing their ass off wondering if you are trolling.
If you don't want water damage, you need to do both.
If you don't want a toxic community, you need to do both.
Why would you ever do that? You do both. No one here has ever suggested banning exploiters and then not fixing the exploits, because that would be stupid. You fix the exploit, then review the server logs, find the list of people who did X thing Y times during Z period, and feed it to "banhammer.pl".
Here's an interesting philosophical question: If an exploit exists, and no-one exploits it, does it matter? Hint: The answer is 'no'. But if someone is exploiting it, then you have the 'help detecting exploits' you wanted.
The more important thing to realize is this: You don't need exploiters to find exploits. Normal non-abusive players will do so. I understand you may not know many programmers, QA professionals, or even professional security consultants. Take it from one of those people who knows a lot more of those people: A lot of them are not toxic cheaters. You don't need toxic cheaters to have the expertise, or even interest, to break or exploit systems. Plenty of people with the skillsets in question will celebrate their cool find, report it and move on.
The real problem is that 'more people exploiting' makes damage control more difficult, creates negative gameplay experiences for more players, and fosters a toxic community by creating mindsets similar to the ones you have described earlier in this thread. "Letting exploiters stick around" isn't free. What you are suggesting is a good idea if "keeping exploiters around" is free. The problem is, it has a lot of relatively steep costs, and no-one wants to pay them.
Sure there will always be more exploiters, but you don't have to tolerate the community type that develops in games where cheating is encouraged. You don't have to tolerate the extra GM and developer (cleanup) time involved in dealing with incidents that are exploited by 5000 players instead of 500. You don't have to broadcast to the world "exploiters here aren't punished".
Exploiters are a type of person that should not be welcome in any game. They provide no benefit (including testing) that is not available from better sources (all the random programmers, QA professionals, and security consultants that like to play video games in their downtime, and are invested in creating a good experience for themselves and for others), they cause concrete, measurable harm to a game community, and they increase developer costs. They're not worth the harm they cause, and they never will be.
Except you don't need said random players to exploit the bug in order to find it. This problem has been solved for over 20 years in a different MMO - Kingdom of Loathing. They will mercilessly perma-ban anyone who performs a serious exploit...but at the same time, there is always a prominent "Report Bug" button throughout their UI, and if you do find something legitimately damaging, you get awarded a special weapon that is both very functional and can be shown off to whoever you want. Heck, they even have a "Bigger bugfinder blade" if you find something horrendous enough to cause major damage to the game, like item duping exploits that would ruin the economy.
It's just the same as in the real security world. If you allow for responsible disclosure, you listen to your reporter, and you offer those who find your bugs either a reward, recognition, or both, while still banning any exploiters you detect, this will create a healthy environment for everyone. To my knowledge, there haven't been any major economic bugs in fifteen years in the game due to the effectiveness of this policy.
There are plenty of people who will poke around your game, find problems, and let you know, because that's something those people find fun. Or you have people like me, who break every piece of technology they interact with in new and exciting ways. You don't have to take the damage to your game's culture that letting exploiters run wild would create when there are so many easier ways to get the bug reports you need.
An adventurer is you my friend.
I've never heard of that game but that sounds pretty good. I'm only taking about my experience with games I've played, and QA teams I've seen. QA tends to be really low on the priority list for a lot of studios.
If they actually have a real QA team that isn't just saying they've fixed stuff when they haven't, then that'd be good.
My main point is I don't want a game with massive game breaking bugs and exploits. I don't care if people exploit, I want the exploits to not exist in the first place. If someone kills my family I don't care if they go to jail, I want my family back.
Sometimes I wasnt even sure I found it, so I try to repeat it to confirm how it happens - then state in my report HOW TO REPLICATE... then I get fucking banned...
WoW, EQ, Ragnarok, Runes of magic all have banned for these type of actions...
Edit - the fucked up part - other times when I found them, I report it on FORUMS on a alt account - Solution solved very quickly, community major upset with me but im not banned lol...
idk about making them unable to attack, but wallstucking mobs shouldnt be banable at all. in the case of being able to wallstuck anything in any video game it is just badly made. thats all. and if you can make these mobs unable to attack, you as an experienced mmorpg dev messed up completely since that is a known thing in lots of games. also, how would you as a player know if anything is a bug or just not well coded? if i e.g. craft 50x sissors but only put in 5x metal instead of 50x metal for the first time and idk better, how is it exploiting? im just selling packs of 50x sissors over and over again and technically break the sissor economy without actually knowing it.
it's a thin line between exploiting and unknowingly do stuff which isnt really intended.
i suggest keeping an updated list of known bugs and communicate them as not allowed to being used until they are fixed. first people who "used" a bug and "exploited" them could not know it wasnt an intended feature. you cant implicate that every player knows everything abotu a game, what should be possible and for gods sake not how bugs look like. not everybody is a video game veteran.
also, has anyone ever heard of unsual gameplay patterns? it is possible to trac those down and give them a short ban of 24h to take a look into it, maybe contact the player and talk with him about that. work of technical team and the GM team.
it sickens me how many people got banned in video games for minor stuff. just state rules clearly and with clearly im not talking about "dont exploit/use bugs in our game pls" hurr durr.
Did I make a post saying to ban exploiters? Why would I be trolling
No. You have to let them know if they are caught they will be banned. You could even offer "bounties for bugs" to encourage people to report the bugs/exploits and move on rather than abuse them.
He's saying you made a post about a potential Corruption Exploit, followed by a post saying "Don't ban exploiters".
I don't see the relation. I understand they both have the word exploit, but one is about how banning people doesn't go back in time and stop the damage, and the other is more so just trying to get people to talk about the corruption system.
yeah, i ment topic not post.
same mentality
Can I ask what you think the point of this current post is? "Dont Ban People Who Exploit" what do you think the reason I'm making this post is.
Remember kids, exploits are totally fine and developers shouldn't fix them.
Why would you want to fix exploits? They're not hurting anyone. It's not the exploits fault that exploiters are taking advantage of them!
If you want to make the argument that exploits don't ruin games, because they require an exploiter to use them, you literally have to admit that exploits should not be fixed, because fixing them would be a waste of time.
You can't say exploits aren't the problem and then say exploits should still be fixed.
If you disagree than I don't know any other way of explaining that basic concept.
I do not have to admit that, and watch this.
Exploits aren't the problem, but they should still be fixed when found, and people who find them and choose not the abuse the exploit should be rewarded. People who abuse the exploits are the problem, and should be removed for knowingly disrupting the game.
What an amazing concept! Punishing people for disrupting the games design while rewarding those who seek to improve it without abusing systems!
I'm going to give an example of an exploit.
Terrain that causes a player to become stuck during a jumping/falling animation, unable to move or cast spells that require the player to be standing still on the ground.
Is it okay to PvP nearby that location? Because if it's okay to PvP nearby that location, you could very easily get players to accidentally trap themselves and then kill them while they are unable to fight back.
If it isn't okay to PvP nearby that location, than the exploit itself is an issue because now players cannot PvP in that location.
If you say it's okay to PvP in that location, but you must stop PvPing if a player gets stuck, then the exploit itself is still an issue because it prevented you from being able to PvP.
Exploiters are bad, because exploits are bad, not the other way around.
If there are no exploits to exploit, exploiters are not bad.
Active exploiters are bad, exploiters with nothing to exploit are just normal players.
An exploiter is someone who would knowingly utilize that glitched terrain to their advantage over another player during PVP. So if a player repeatedly uses it, yes that player deserves a punishment. If a player happened to stumble upon it and report it and not intentionally use it, yayyy give them some brownie points and fix the issue.
Exploiters cant exist without exploits to abuse. If there is an exploit, people who abuse it shouldn't be allowed to abuse it. A playerbase with less people who wish to disrupt the intended games design is a better playerbase. A playerbase with players who see a glitch or exploit and immediately report it so it can be fixed and not abused is a better playerbase. So cull the players who wish to seek an unfair advantage through exploits.