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Proposal: Toggle for cosmetics with individual player white / black lists
Spodos
Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
I've seen a number of posts with folks concerned about cosmetics and the ability to appear to have achieved more than you actually have in game. Would like to propose the option to turn off whether you view others' cosmetics, and then allow people to whitelist friends / guildies so you can still see their costumes.
This would allow people who buy costumes to still see their own, and everyone can make the choice of whether they want to see other's. Maybe default to showing all costumes as a nod towards the value people are paying (since they still want an incentive for people to pay for them), but this could go a long way towards alleviating the concern people have about the cash shop
This would allow people who buy costumes to still see their own, and everyone can make the choice of whether they want to see other's. Maybe default to showing all costumes as a nod towards the value people are paying (since they still want an incentive for people to pay for them), but this could go a long way towards alleviating the concern people have about the cash shop
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Their thought - and I agree - is that if you spend money to have your character look a specific way, you should be able to know other players will see your character that way.
The idea that gear is a representation of what you have achieved in a game where all gear is able to be traded - even after use - is also just outdated.
Sadly, that ship has sailed. Possibly before the potential benefits were even recognized. But then again, a costume shop is a lot of revenue. It's hard to say no to in this day and age.
So theoretically the server should be able to save the setting of each player in relationship to the other 50 000 registered accounts
That means 50 000 to the power of 50 000 = "Invalid input"
worse than
5000 ^ 5000 = "Overflow"
How many bytes we need to store the 50k ^ 50k "white / black" setting?
No? That's how ignore lists work for chat.
It's 50,000 * 50,000. Each user has white/black tags for 50,000 other players. The server as a whole has 50,000 users.
Also, the answer is 6.25 KB per user. Which doesn't even need to ever be on the server side, but if you wanted to sync it, it'd still cost under $7/month in AWS S3 storage for the whole server.
Nonetheless, you'd never bother storing it that way, because an individual user on average isn't gonna have even 1,000 entries on their list. You don't even need the 6 KB, in that case.
not how it works T__T
also, i believe steven said cosmetics will be automatically hidden during castle or node sieges
No, it wouldn't help. People are lazy and don't do the research. They need to let others know that "I want this. This is the way it should be!" You will see this topic again in a couple months, "discovered this issue...." most likely in the tagline. As interest in the game being developed increases as it does, there will be an influx of those that won't bother to see if anything they feel they are "experts" on has been addressed previously and will just sperg topic diarrhea from their infected keyboards.
We all eagerly await the next course of verbal sewage /s
I felt like i missed out on royalty set im not going to lie.
Dang, it could have been such a good argument
Oh well...
That’s not the key takeaway, here, @Spodos … are you sure you’ve read other threads on this topic?
Players buy cosmetics so that they can be “seen” by other players … and “show off” what they earned in-game through achievements or bought in the cash shop.
Allowing other players to toggle that minimizes those achievements and reduces the cash shop value.
The impact is big.
But for people who really care, just know that there will be a distinction between store-purchased cosmetics and items earned in-game. So, people will know that the fancy-looking purple robe with sparkles that you buy in the store is just something they plunked down cash for. But the fancy green robes with glowing hem is something you can only get from a long and difficult quest chain, and those green robes will carry a prestige that the purple robes never will. Also, Steven has said that the "best" cosmetics will only be found in-game (I think they were called "epic cosmetics") and can't be bought from the store. (As always, tastes will be different, and what Intrepid considers to be "epic" might appear tacky or boring or ugly to you.)
For a real-life example, one of Blizzard's first cash shop items they offered was the Celestial Steed. That was a flying mount only available by buying it from the store.
Players mocked it, calling it the "sparkle pony" and insulting players who rode them. They knew that it was something that was only bought from the store, and not only did they not respect it, they actively disrespected people who bought it. Part of it was a cultural thing; it was a game where everything your character had was earned somehow, and suddenly there was this mount that anyone could have by dropping cash.
Most likely you won't have anything that extreme in AoC. I'm sure that store-bought cosmetics will be common enough that people will be used to them. However, experienced players will certainly recognize what is a purchased cosmetic versus something you earn. And I am also sure that the most prestigious items will be those that require a great deal of effort and/or exceptional skill to earn, and will be rare as a result. Players aren't dumb. They'll be able to tell them apart. In that sense, there will be visual progression, for people who care.
Still not how that works. They use relational databases. Which you only write a record for off. In which case is only 1byte per entry. Because at the worst case scenario only be turning off a few thousands players.
Additionally you could just have a flag to turn all players off which also is just 1byte.
I dont know what type of data plans you're expecting to use but I work with petabytes worth of data and 6kb is like .01 cents.
People pay $$ to show off. Why would the developers hurt the value of their cosmetics? People wouldnt buy them if they knew that they wont be able to show off.
I dont like cosmetics but it's 2022 and they contribute to the production and profits of video games. Be realistic..
My first calculation was based on 1 bit per player, assuming unique server-relative player IDs could be sent at runtime. This is the smallest possible uncompressed non-sparse representation, which is what Strevi's "calculation" seemed to be "asking for".
As you note, nobody would use a non-sparse representation for this sort of thing. I therefore adjusted my calculation to a sparse storage of 32bit unique account IDs, which is a reasonable basis for player identification. You can get a list of 1500 of those for just 6 KB.
You could use a relational database, but the OVERHEAD involved would be higher, since you'd need rows of, at a minimum "(your_player, target_whitelisted_player)". There's efficient ways to represent this, but a file per player only needs "your_player" once. Now, obviously you'd probably still do this. But if Strevi was making an argument based on "this is an unimaginable amount of data", there's absolutely methods that make that not even matter a little.
Personally, I'd prefer no cosmetics at all, at least not cash shop related. I'll just happily pay a higher sub instead. Let me work for, and achieve those things in game, and inspire, or be inspired by. I am rather visually orientated. If I take PvP for example I can usually tell at a glance what class I am up against. Which influences my approach to the situation. Cosmetic items muddy these waters making it harder, which can give advantages, be it very minor. There are ways to do it though, if you look at Overwatch for example, they sell skins, but you'll always be able to recognise a Genji from a Reinhardt for example. There's also the fact that developers tend to focus and channel more creativity into the cash shop and make in-game items/sets recolours, or just colours they know aren't popular. (Any game with Dye. Black and white dye are always the most sought after for example)
Now, I realise, this battle is long lost, sadly. People don't agree, or actually buy into the narrative of cosmetics being needed, because subs just aren't enough anymore. So if I must suffer cosmetic cash shops, then I want to go all in, and have no on and off toggle. It doesn't offend me that people wear cash shop items, and whilst against it, if it's the will of the people, so to speak. Then let everyone show off their purchased cosmetics in all their glory.
For me (and I don't just speak for myself regarding this), the game genre and style set the tone.
If Ashes of Creation <<IS>> a 'High Fantasy' MMO, where characters are progressing in a feudal-like system, battling each other, and monsters, while using weapons/spells/projectiles that can, in all reasonability, decapitate, sever, pierce, slash, burn, mutilate ... ... (even if the game doesn't graphically show most of these effects, which I'd prefer it does).. THEN, IMO, there is no place for items, trinkets, clothing et.cetera that goes counter towards the theme of the game.
So, for example. While ArcheAge can have players customize their boat sails and housing canvases with all manner of representations, then NO. I don't want to see dckpics on someone's sails, or Real Life BTM characters on canvases, littered around homesteads. Nor do I think cute little items like GW2's Quaggan backpacks are going with the High Fantasy MMO theme.
The idea of seeing all of the above-type items detracts from the fantasy theme of the game and belittles the 'seriousness' of character life vs. death encounters with other players and monsters, especially epic mobs.
Going into battle with some epic boss mob, with a costume where your character is dressed like a school-girl in image, is really not a sight I want to see.
So, I'd prefer that I have an option to turn off all those detracting above-type items, so I can see a player's equipped armor, not their schoolgirl miniskirts. I can see that character's rugged and fitting to the environment backpack, and not some plushie backpack that you could buy at Toys R Us. And no, I don't need to see BTM boys with no chest hair littered along homesteads in this game.
So if they're (Intrepid) going to allow such fluff in their game that contributes to going against the theme of the game, just for the sake of the almighty dollar, and or to appease to a crowd that really doesn't understand such games, then YES, I want a switch to turn off that crp.
It would be the perfect world where you could have 'total freedom without all the restrictions on how you dye your gear and what color in some sort of white list that just automatically includes your guildies (but can be black listed if they so choose) and no one else and everyone else gets 'the 'public' version with all the proposed restrictions in place. It'd be a great feature, but I don't think it will happen.
I like freedom in my cosmetics. I like the ability to make all sorts of choices that others may find immersion breaking. And I respect those people. So I would rather them not to have to encounter cosmetic griefing if we can find a balance between style guidelines that allow for freedom while still minimizing immersion.
I personally don't buy cosmetics to 'feel more important than others' or to 'show off'. Showing off to my friends/people I'll party with? Absolutely. But you random jerks and laggards? I couldn't care less. Exclusivity is in almost all digital cases artificial and therefore has no meaning to me.
STEVEN on the other hand. DEFINITELY does. He's been VERY vocal about caring about such issues such as 'two people wearing the same outfit at an event' and preaching that 'exclusivity is the whole point and should be honored' which only really can have value if other people can see this 'exclusive cosmetic'.
It's not going to change because Steven is that person. He is the fashion queen (fashion king I guess?) that will want to show off his 'exclusive' set of cosmetics. It's his game. He has every right to design the game that way. And enough people here AGREE WITH STEVEN. The only way this ever had a snowballs chance in hell of being implemented if there was solidarity. There is not.
So it's not going to happen and I've made my peace with that. But hey if IS really wants to please all audiences.... Maybe consider my suggestion if you are reading. It keeps exclusivity and freedom intact even if it's extra work. I know it would certainly boost your cosmetic sales from me and I doubt it'd compromise your values.
Welcome to Ashes forum new person.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Yhr9WpjaDzw
Then the game should allow me then to run in 100% naked on my character fighting an Epic boss mob, with no equipment whatsoever. "It's just some weird fantasy power we have."