If the punishment for PKing is too harsh, no one will PK, if it isn't harsh enough, there will be (at the very minimum) a small amount of people who repeatedly PK and have a big negative impact on the community.
Punishment for the PK itself could be somewhat small (either corruption timer is short or the penalties are lower) but the counter removal quest could be very expensive/hard to do and the counter scaling could change the PK penalties, so that if you have over 5 kills on you - your PK penalties are huge (I'd prefer that number to be ~15, but that's all just testing).
This way people who need to PK here and there can still do it once in a while and then do the quest when they can afford it, but all the genocidal assholes who think they can just go kill lowbies for free would get completely fucked by the corruption penalties.
But yes, it's all about balancing. I told you to read the wiki because you were saying that the corruption system was pointless because you'd be hardstopped by the system or just permacorrupted, when that is not the case (at least in the currently presented design).
If the punishment for PKing is too harsh, no one will PK, if it isn't harsh enough, there will be (at the very minimum) a small amount of people who repeatedly PK and have a big negative impact on the community.
Punishment for the PK itself could be somewhat small (either corruption timer is short or the penalties are lower) but the counter removal quest could be very expensive/hard to do and the counter scaling could change the PK penalties, so that if you have over 5 kills on you - your PK penalties are huge (I'd prefer that number to be ~15, but that's all just testing).
This way people who need to PK here and there can still do it once in a while and then do the quest when they can afford it, but all the genocidal assholes who think they can just go kill lowbies for free would get completely fucked by the corruption penalties.
But yes, it's all about balancing. I told you to read the wiki because you were saying that the corruption system was pointless because you'd be hardstopped by the system or just permacorrupted, when that is not the case (at least in the currently presented design).
I'm trying to find a way to communicate what I'm saying because I don't really think I've gotten my point across.
I'm trying to say there are 2 types of players.
Player A: Casual PKer, prefers to fight purples, but maybe they're bored and force a green to fight once in a while.
Player B: Hardcore griefer, loves killing greens and genuinely enjoys spending all day doing that. Abusing systems, waiting in a bush doing nothing, whatever it is doesn't matter as long as they can kill some unsuspecting players and emote on their corpse.
My point is that any system harsh enough to deter Player B, would be so punishing that Player A wouldn't even want to casually partake.
The only thing I've seen is maybe griefers will become bounty hunters? It might be more fun to go after reds than greens, but I can't predict the mind of a griefer as I am not one.
I'm just tryna spur up discussions on a public forum about stuff I think about, I don't think I'm doing a disservice to anyone by doing that. If I'm wrong you can call me out and people will see that, I'm not spreading misinformation by casually voicing my opinion.
My point is that any system harsh enough to deter Player B, would be so punishing that Player A wouldn't even want to casually partake.
And I wrote out a system where a casual PKer would be completely fine if he had upwards of 15 kills and only then would need to go do the quest. 15 kills for a rare PKer would probably mean weeks if not months of gameplay.
A genocide player would go through those 15 kills in a day, if not hours. But then he'd be hit with a huge wall of either "another PK and you're going down to lvl10 in stats" or "go do a super long super hard super expensive quest to decrease your counter". And unless he makes an alt to go kill lowbies at their own lvl - he wouldn't be able to kill any more people.
I'm just tryna spur up discussions on a public forum about stuff I think about, I don't think I'm doing a disservice to anyone by doing that. If I'm wrong you can call me out and people will see that, I'm not spreading misinformation by casually voicing my opinion.
And that's completely fine. We're all here to discuss stuff. But you've had several threads now (and mentioned in other discussions) that griefers will have free reign in the game when that's not true even with currently presented design, let alone a changed design with harsher penalties that could come about in testing.
Your posts went from "griefers gonna grief and there's no way to stop them" to "why even have corruption if it's so damn harsh" just after learning that corruption penalties "grow" (functionally that is) with time.
That is why I said that you should properly educate yourself on the current design. Any potential newcomer could see your posts about OP griefers and think "fuck this game if that's the case", and god fucking knows those newcomers never go to the wiki even when told to do so.
Or alternatively a pvper could see you say "corruption is way too damn harsh because it can't even be removed" and think "oh, I thought this game was all about pvp. Oh well", and move on from the game.
If the punishment for PKing is too harsh, no one will PK, if it isn't harsh enough, there will be (at the very minimum) a small amount of people who repeatedly PK and have a big negative impact on the community.
The only thing I've seen is maybe griefers will become bounty hunters? It might be more fun to go after reds than greens, but I can't predict the mind of a griefer as I am not one.
There's many kinds of people:
- people who have this wrong view that killing gatheres over and over is bad, so they become antigankers
- people who will be power tripping
- people who likes the hunt
- etc
What I would like to do?
Gank people with my alt just to make it red... then the bounty hunters will use their pathfinding skill and detect where my red player is on the map. When they activate that skill it will make them instantly purple... so when they come after my red alt I can ambush them with my main who now can gank them because they are purple!
So I can gank bounty hunters!
Write that down: when the game comes up there will be a thing called "corrupt baiting".
I'm so evil and smart!
PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
My point is that any system harsh enough to deter Player B, would be so punishing that Player A wouldn't even want to casually partake.
And I wrote out a system where a casual PKer would be completely fine if he had upwards of 15 kills and only then would need to go do the quest. 15 kills for a rare PKer would probably mean weeks if not months of gameplay.
A genocide player would go through those 15 kills in a day, if not hours. But then he'd be hit with a huge wall of either "another PK and you're going down to lvl10 in stats" or "go do a super long super hard super expensive quest to decrease your counter". And unless he makes an alt to go kill lowbies at their own lvl - he wouldn't be able to kill any more people.
I'm just tryna spur up discussions on a public forum about stuff I think about, I don't think I'm doing a disservice to anyone by doing that. If I'm wrong you can call me out and people will see that, I'm not spreading misinformation by casually voicing my opinion.
And that's completely fine. We're all here to discuss stuff. But you've had several threads now (and mentioned in other discussions) that griefers will have free reign in the game when that's not true even with currently presented design, let alone a changed design with harsher penalties that could come about in testing.
Your posts went from "griefers gonna grief and there's no way to stop them" to "why even have corruption if it's so damn harsh" just after learning that corruption penalties "grow" (functionally that is) with time.
That is why I said that you should properly educate yourself on the current design. Any potential newcomer could see your posts about OP griefers and think "fuck this game if that's the case", and god fucking knows those newcomers never go to the wiki even when told to do so.
Or alternatively a pvper could see you say "corruption is way too damn harsh because it can't even be removed" and think "oh, I thought this game was all about pvp. Oh well", and move on from the game.
I think we've kind of gone in a circle. I'm still saying that from everything I've seen/heard/read and from everything you've told me, that either PKing won't be worth doing, OR that griefing will be an issue. I'm saying it could be either because we don't know the specific numbers or how it is balanced. But here is my point:
I disagree that the systems currently being discussed, can be balanced.
Whether PK count is bad at 5 PKs or bad at 50 PKs doesn't change anything, it just makes it harsher or more lenient, but which side is benefiting doesn't matter if it's still unbalanced on either extreme.
If the punishment for PKing is too harsh, no one will PK, if it isn't harsh enough, there will be (at the very minimum) a small amount of people who repeatedly PK and have a big negative impact on the community.
The only thing I've seen is maybe griefers will become bounty hunters? It might be more fun to go after reds than greens, but I can't predict the mind of a griefer as I am not one.
There's many kinds of people:
- people who have this wrong view that killing gatheres over and over is bad, so they become antigankers
- people who will be power tripping
- people who likes the hunt
- etc
What I would like to do?
Gank people with my alt just to make it red... then the bounty hunters will use their pathfinding skill and detect where my red player is on the map. When they activate that skill it will make them instantly purple... so when they come after my red alt I can ambush them with my main who now can gank them because they are purple!
So I can gank bounty hunters!
Write that down: when the game comes up there will be a thing called "corrupt baiting".
I'm so evil and smart!
Yeah like you'd be better at giving examples than me because I'm not a big PKer, I prefer arenas and stuff.
My point is that players like you are looking for creative ways to get around or even exploit these systems for your own benefit, and that is part of the fun for ya'll, so there is no way that they can balance the system without basically destroying PKing in general.
Yeah like you'd be better at giving examples than me because I'm not a big PKer, I prefer arenas and stuff.
My point is that players like you are looking for creative ways to get around or even exploit these systems for your own benefit, and that is part of the fun for ya'll, so there is no way that they can balance the system without basically destroying PKing in general.
Learning is fun!
It is just like doing puzzles.
Everybody plays for their own benefit.
Well... what you said is very true, I think the Corruption system at the momment seems a bit too harsh.
PKs also run patrols for killing all afk gold farms and botters and completely wreck botters and gold farms, they are just like the community's immune system ingame economic abuse.
A regular carebear will only whine.
The inteligent carebear will let all afk gold farms die and he will do his farming and crafting in a more profitable way since all botters were killed and looted.
PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
9. Have bounty hunters camp your freehold
10. Have gatherers avoid your freehold so you have to run further while camped by bounty hunters.
Your stats will also be going down, and down, and down, as you do this, unless you work off all the XP debt from your corruption (as the ever-increasing PK count continues to make it worse each time). Per the wiki, stat damping from XP debt not apply only to corrupted players.
7a Gain 8% to 12% of a level in negative XP
7b Making your character useless in equal level PVP until you grind that off
7c Remember that it takes 45 days 4-6 hours a day to reach max level, so 12% of a level is no small amount of XP
7d Realize that stealing from caravans would be better for more resources in less time with no corruption
From what I read, XP debt was only one of the methods, you can die to remove all negative effects of corruption. So dying enough times would make you essentially the same as a fresh green player.
Also freeholds are safe zones at all times except for node sieges.
If you're an assassin or some class with a stealth mechanic it should be a lot easier to travel undetected.
in regard to your stealth. So if your corrupted you are revealed on the map to boundy hunters its not known wether or not you stay revealed on the map dispite stealth so they always have a general location of you when ur stealth and might be able to boop you out of it still.
Another thing is we also dont know if stealth is perma or like GW2 a temporary thing so you will eventually pop out of it.
9. Have bounty hunters camp your freehold
10. Have gatherers avoid your freehold so you have to run further while camped by bounty hunters.
Your stats will also be going down, and down, and down, as you do this, unless you work off all the XP debt from your corruption (as the ever-increasing PK count continues to make it worse each time). Per the wiki, stat damping from XP debt not apply only to corrupted players.
7a Gain 8% to 12% of a level in negative XP
7b Making your character useless in equal level PVP until you grind that off
7c Remember that it takes 45 days 4-6 hours a day to reach max level, so 12% of a level is no small amount of XP
7d Realize that stealing from caravans would be better for more resources in less time with no corruption
From what I read, XP debt was only one of the methods, you can die to remove all negative effects of corruption. So dying enough times would make you essentially the same as a fresh green player.
Also freeholds are safe zones at all times except for node sieges.
If you're an assassin or some class with a stealth mechanic it should be a lot easier to travel undetected.
in regard to your stealth. So if your corrupted you are revealed on the map to boundy hunters its not known wether or not you stay revealed on the map dispite stealth so they always have a general location of you when ur stealth and might be able to boop you out of it still.
Another thing is we also dont know if stealth is perma or like GW2 a temporary thing so you will eventually pop out of it.
Yeah, there are a lot of assumptions we all have to make when we have discussions because at the end of the day, probably everything we know about the game will change at least a little bit in the years before launch. But there should definitely be classes that can at least find it easier to avoid attention in theory.
....If it takes 10 hours to work off a single PK penalty, I just wouldn't PvP.
The Corruption system is intended to dissuade the types of PvP-ganking and ambush that will typically result in Corruption; There are other types of PvP that don't involve garnering any.
Corruption is meant to annoy people whom make themselves annoying to others, via Corrupt-able, PvP acts. If your response is akin to what I've snipped in this quote, I'd say it's already working....
....If it takes 10 hours to work off a single PK penalty, I just wouldn't PvP.
The Corruption system is intended to dissuade the types of PvP-ganking and ambush that will typically result in Corruption; There are other types of PvP that don't involve garnering any.
Corruption is meant to annoy people whom make themselves annoying to others, via Corrupt-able, PvP acts. If your response is akin to what I've snipped in this quote, I'd say it's already working....
I'm an arena PvPer, I probably won't open world PvP much if ever, while leveling/progressing. If corruption is super mega harsh than I'm incentivized to stay green always right?
The primary means to remove corruption is through death.
Corrupt players will be able to utilize private storage in their Freeholds.
1. Play an assassin and own a freehold.
2. Stalk a gatherer until they've gathered a bunch of resources.
3. Attack them with all your burst damage.
4. If they attack you, kill them and repeat step 2.
5. If they don't attack you, kill them while they are green.
6. Return to your freehold and store all your items.
7. Get your character killed.
8. Respawn with no corruption, repeat step 2.
How do you know an assassin will be able to just burst down another player like that. It's a different game. Think before you post. You also seem to lack information about the game. Just another "big brain person", that think they can point out things that is wrong with the game, despite the things haven't been tested yet
The primary means to remove corruption is through death.
Corrupt players will be able to utilize private storage in their Freeholds.
1. Play an assassin and own a freehold.
2. Stalk a gatherer until they've gathered a bunch of resources.
3. Attack them with all your burst damage.
4. If they attack you, kill them and repeat step 2.
5. If they don't attack you, kill them while they are green.
6. Return to your freehold and store all your items.
7. Get your character killed.
8. Respawn with no corruption, repeat step 2.
How do you know an assassin will be able to just burst down another player like that. It's a different game. Think before you post
You can replace assassin with any burst damage rogue class.
If you're trying to assume that rogue will lack burst damage I'm just going to have to disagree with you lol. Steven has said Rogues will have a lot of DoTs and debuffs, but it's also states very clearly that they have "frightening damage when hidden."
....If it takes 10 hours to work off a single PK penalty, I just wouldn't PvP.
The Corruption system is intended to dissuade the types of PvP-ganking and ambush that will typically result in Corruption; There are other types of PvP that don't involve garnering any.
Corruption is meant to annoy people whom make themselves annoying to others, via Corrupt-able, PvP acts. If your response is akin to what I've snipped in this quote, I'd say it's already working....
I'm an arena PvPer, I probably won't open world PvP much if ever, while leveling/progressing. If corruption is super mega harsh than I'm incentivized to stay green always right?
We know you are an arena pvper.
You wont change the game to make it like one of the countless instanced BG pvp.
Stop posting now.
....If it takes 10 hours to work off a single PK penalty, I just wouldn't PvP.
The Corruption system is intended to dissuade the types of PvP-ganking and ambush that will typically result in Corruption; There are other types of PvP that don't involve garnering any.
Corruption is meant to annoy people whom make themselves annoying to others, via Corrupt-able, PvP acts. If your response is akin to what I've snipped in this quote, I'd say it's already working....
I'm an arena PvPer, I probably won't open world PvP much if ever, while leveling/progressing. If corruption is super mega harsh than I'm incentivized to stay green always right?
We know you are an arena pvper.
You wont change the game to make it like one of the countless instanced BG pvp.
Stop posting now.
Who are you even responding to? I never said I wanted the game to be an instanced battleground? I'll never understand why people just make stuff up in their head to respond to.
If the punishment for PKing is too harsh, no one will PK, if it isn't harsh enough, there will be (at the very minimum) a small amount of people who repeatedly PK and have a big negative impact on the community.
Punishment for the PK itself could be somewhat small (either corruption timer is short or the penalties are lower) but the counter removal quest could be very expensive/hard to do and the counter scaling could change the PK penalties, so that if you have over 5 kills on you - your PK penalties are huge (I'd prefer that number to be ~15, but that's all just testing).
This way people who need to PK here and there can still do it once in a while and then do the quest when they can afford it, but all the genocidal assholes who think they can just go kill lowbies for free would get completely fucked by the corruption penalties.
But yes, it's all about balancing. I told you to read the wiki because you were saying that the corruption system was pointless because you'd be hardstopped by the system or just permacorrupted, when that is not the case (at least in the currently presented design).
I'm trying to find a way to communicate what I'm saying because I don't really think I've gotten my point across.
I'm trying to say there are 2 types of players.
Player A: Casual PKer, prefers to fight purples, but maybe they're bored and force a green to fight once in a while.
Player B: Hardcore griefer, loves killing greens and genuinely enjoys spending all day doing that. Abusing systems, waiting in a bush doing nothing, whatever it is doesn't matter as long as they can kill some unsuspecting players and emote on their corpse.
My point is that any system harsh enough to deter Player B, would be so punishing that Player A wouldn't even want to casually partake.
The only thing I've seen is maybe griefers will become bounty hunters? It might be more fun to go after reds than greens, but I can't predict the mind of a griefer as I am not one.
I'm just tryna spur up discussions on a public forum about stuff I think about, I don't think I'm doing a disservice to anyone by doing that. If I'm wrong you can call me out and people will see that, I'm not spreading misinformation by casually voicing my opinion.
how so?
player a casually pk = no stat dampening.
player b hiding in a bush all day pking = stat dampening = cant pk.
the system punishes player b harshly but not player a, and player a can still casually pk...
If the punishment for PKing is too harsh, no one will PK, if it isn't harsh enough, there will be (at the very minimum) a small amount of people who repeatedly PK and have a big negative impact on the community.
Punishment for the PK itself could be somewhat small (either corruption timer is short or the penalties are lower) but the counter removal quest could be very expensive/hard to do and the counter scaling could change the PK penalties, so that if you have over 5 kills on you - your PK penalties are huge (I'd prefer that number to be ~15, but that's all just testing).
This way people who need to PK here and there can still do it once in a while and then do the quest when they can afford it, but all the genocidal assholes who think they can just go kill lowbies for free would get completely fucked by the corruption penalties.
But yes, it's all about balancing. I told you to read the wiki because you were saying that the corruption system was pointless because you'd be hardstopped by the system or just permacorrupted, when that is not the case (at least in the currently presented design).
I'm trying to find a way to communicate what I'm saying because I don't really think I've gotten my point across.
I'm trying to say there are 2 types of players.
Player A: Casual PKer, prefers to fight purples, but maybe they're bored and force a green to fight once in a while.
Player B: Hardcore griefer, loves killing greens and genuinely enjoys spending all day doing that. Abusing systems, waiting in a bush doing nothing, whatever it is doesn't matter as long as they can kill some unsuspecting players and emote on their corpse.
My point is that any system harsh enough to deter Player B, would be so punishing that Player A wouldn't even want to casually partake.
The only thing I've seen is maybe griefers will become bounty hunters? It might be more fun to go after reds than greens, but I can't predict the mind of a griefer as I am not one.
I'm just tryna spur up discussions on a public forum about stuff I think about, I don't think I'm doing a disservice to anyone by doing that. If I'm wrong you can call me out and people will see that, I'm not spreading misinformation by casually voicing my opinion.
how so?
player a casually pk = no stat dampening.
player b hiding in a bush all day pking = stat dampening = cant pk.
the system punishes player b harshly but not player a, and player a can still casually pk...
That isn't how the system works though.
After PKing a certain amount of times, you'll have a high enough PK count for corruption to be too punishing to be worth it.
There are methods for removing corruption, and methods for lowering your PK count.
If lowering your PK count is really easy:
Player A will casually PK, and casually lower their PK count.
Player B will PK often, and lower their PK count often.
If lowering your PK count is really hard:
Player A will PK for a few kills but then stop almost completely, because they don't want to bother lowering their PK count.
Player B will PK casually, because they can't lower their PK count easily enough to PK all the time.
It's the problem of Player A being casual and Player B being hardcore.
Player B will PK casually, because they can't lower their PK count easily enough to PK all the time.
In other words, the system would've worked? Awesome!
Also, I feel like you (and quite a lot of other people in other threads) are forgetting that PKing =/= open world pvp. PK means killing someone who never wanted to fight back in the first place. If you're a pvper who allegedly has enough skill to challenge others to pvp - you should be able to remove someone from a location w/o immediately PKing them. PKing should be your last resort suffocation, no breathing.
And people in high lvl locations and especially in deep dungeons would most likely just fight back. Especially considering that those kinds of locations would be party-based rather than solo ones.
If the punishment for PKing is too harsh, no one will PK, if it isn't harsh enough, there will be (at the very minimum) a small amount of people who repeatedly PK and have a big negative impact on the community.
Punishment for the PK itself could be somewhat small (either corruption timer is short or the penalties are lower) but the counter removal quest could be very expensive/hard to do and the counter scaling could change the PK penalties, so that if you have over 5 kills on you - your PK penalties are huge (I'd prefer that number to be ~15, but that's all just testing).
This way people who need to PK here and there can still do it once in a while and then do the quest when they can afford it, but all the genocidal assholes who think they can just go kill lowbies for free would get completely fucked by the corruption penalties.
But yes, it's all about balancing. I told you to read the wiki because you were saying that the corruption system was pointless because you'd be hardstopped by the system or just permacorrupted, when that is not the case (at least in the currently presented design).
I'm trying to find a way to communicate what I'm saying because I don't really think I've gotten my point across.
I'm trying to say there are 2 types of players.
Player A: Casual PKer, prefers to fight purples, but maybe they're bored and force a green to fight once in a while.
Player B: Hardcore griefer, loves killing greens and genuinely enjoys spending all day doing that. Abusing systems, waiting in a bush doing nothing, whatever it is doesn't matter as long as they can kill some unsuspecting players and emote on their corpse.
My point is that any system harsh enough to deter Player B, would be so punishing that Player A wouldn't even want to casually partake.
The only thing I've seen is maybe griefers will become bounty hunters? It might be more fun to go after reds than greens, but I can't predict the mind of a griefer as I am not one.
I'm just tryna spur up discussions on a public forum about stuff I think about, I don't think I'm doing a disservice to anyone by doing that. If I'm wrong you can call me out and people will see that, I'm not spreading misinformation by casually voicing my opinion.
how so?
player a casually pk = no stat dampening.
player b hiding in a bush all day pking = stat dampening = cant pk.
the system punishes player b harshly but not player a, and player a can still casually pk...
That isn't how the system works though.
After PKing a certain amount of times, you'll have a high enough PK count for corruption to be too punishing to be worth it.
There are methods for removing corruption, and methods for lowering your PK count.
If lowering your PK count is really easy:
Player A will casually PK, and casually lower their PK count.
Player B will PK often, and lower their PK count often.
If lowering your PK count is really hard:
Player A will PK for a few kills but then stop almost completely, because they don't want to bother lowering their PK count.
Player B will PK casually, because they can't lower their PK count easily enough to PK all the time.
It's the problem of Player A being casual and Player B being hardcore.
And who told you that you are free to kill people, as if you play some kind of instanced PvP zone?
The system doesnt seem to work for YOU, the arena pvper.
Not for the rest of us that have played open world pvp mmos.
9. Have bounty hunters camp your freehold
10. Have gatherers avoid your freehold so you have to run further while camped by bounty hunters.
Your stats will also be going down, and down, and down, as you do this, unless you work off all the XP debt from your corruption (as the ever-increasing PK count continues to make it worse each time). Per the wiki, stat damping from XP debt not apply only to corrupted players.
7a Gain 8% to 12% of a level in negative XP
7b Making your character useless in equal level PVP until you grind that off
7c Remember that it takes 45 days 4-6 hours a day to reach max level, so 12% of a level is no small amount of XP
7d Realize that stealing from caravans would be better for more resources in less time with no corruption
From what I read, XP debt was only one of the methods, you can die to remove all negative effects of corruption. So dying enough times would make you essentially the same as a fresh green player.
Also freeholds are safe zones at all times except for node sieges.
If you're an assassin or some class with a stealth mechanic it should be a lot easier to travel undetected.
dying removes more corruption than farming monsters. doesnt mean if you die once u gonna be at 0 corruption.
Yeah but you can just die as many times as you want cuz you take off your gear and stuff.
yeah but u still have to make it alive to ur freehold. probably ony stealth will help here haha
Always, Always have a dedicated Loot-Bearer for your Loot-Ring! Not neccesarily with you at all times, just have a Mop Up Crew, lets call them the: "Green New Deal" lol They will always try to remain green, so you can coordinate your death effectively, also avoiding them to accrue Corruption. Have them pick up and store your acquired goods. To later on share the wealth. Better to die from a friendly than a foe or even worst a greeny.
Player B will PK casually, because they can't lower their PK count easily enough to PK all the time.
In other words, the system would've worked? Awesome!
Also, I feel like you (and quite a lot of other people in other threads) are forgetting that PKing =/= open world pvp. PK means killing someone who never wanted to fight back in the first place. If you're a pvper who allegedly has enough skill to challenge others to pvp - you should be able to remove someone from a location w/o immediately PKing them. PKing should be your last resort suffocation, no breathing.
And people in high lvl locations and especially in deep dungeons would most likely just fight back. Especially considering that those kinds of locations would be party-based rather than solo ones.
Wait is the point of the system that green players never die? I genuinely thought there was supposed to be a reason to kill green players. If that's the case then I just misunderstood.
My point was that if corruption is extremely harsh, than people can just stay green and never PvP or have to worry about getting PK'd. I thought that was not the intended experience but if that is the goal than I've misunderstood the point.
Wait is the point of the system that green players never die? I genuinely thought there was supposed to be a reason to kill green players. If that's the case then I just misunderstood.
My point was that if corruption is extremely harsh, than people can just stay green and never PvP or have to worry about getting PK'd. I thought that was not the intended experience but if that is the goal than I've misunderstood the point.
Not never, but a very limited amount of times per person.
This is one of the reasons why I think the BH system is really weak (in its current design) and why I wanna see it become stronger and better, while the corruption gets a bit laxer and allows for marginally more PKs.
We still don't know how much stuff green will drop on death and with that loot being one of the bigger reasons to kill someone, if that amount is low - people will directly PK for resources very rarely. So PKing for locations will most likely become the biggest reason to kill someone, and at that point you either have party-based locations where people will most likely just flag up (though it'll mostly depend on healer design) or you have solo locations that might have BHs or just white knights present exactly because these locations will have the highest probability of getting a PKer.
The corruption system is a deterrent against baseless killings of passive players and an even bigger deterrent against genocidal actions. But it still allows you to kill someone if you deem it worth the risk.
The corrupted players should only be visible by EVERY SINGLE players on the map (except other corrupted) and loot something like 1 piece of gear minimum per death + all the gold coins they have on them + impossible to group with other corrupted + impossible to get buff/heal except your own.
It would be enough punishment to prevent massive fpk and to keep the game fun.
No need to need to touch the characters stats. Just make the corrupted play alone.
But I hate this idea of touching stats.
I see more corruption like a style of game with consequences but still let them play the game.
The corrupted players should only be visible by EVERY SINGLE players on the map (except other corrupted) and loot something like 1 piece of gear minimum per death + all the gold coins they have on them + impossible to group with other corrupted + impossible to get buff/heal except your own.
It would be enough punishment to prevent massive fpk and to keep the game fun.
No need to need to touch the characters stats. Just make the corrupted play alone.
But I hate this idea of touching stats.
I see more corruption like a style of game with consequences but still let them play the game.
Bro you might as well make green players invincible at that point.
The corrupted players should only be visible by EVERY SINGLE players on the map (except other corrupted) and loot something like 1 piece of gear minimum + all the gold coins they have on them + impossible to group with other corrupted + impossible to get buff/heal except your own.
It would be enough punishment to prevent massive fpk and to keep the game fun.
No need to need to touch the characters stats. Just make the corrupted play alone.
But I hate this idea of touching stats.
No, this would not stop them from PKing. But stat decreases would.
The kind of PKers who'd even get to a point where their stats are influenced are exactly the people who'd already be operating alone. And all the other PKers will most likely have parties defending them while they grind off their corruption.
And if dying is the only reasonable way to remove corruption - it makes things even easier for those partied up PKers.
The corrupted players should only be visible by EVERY SINGLE players on the map (except other corrupted) and loot something like 1 piece of gear minimum per death + all the gold coins they have on them + impossible to group with other corrupted + impossible to get buff/heal except your own.
It would be enough punishment to prevent massive fpk and to keep the game fun.
No need to need to touch the characters stats. Just make the corrupted play alone.
But I hate this idea of touching stats.
I see more corruption like a style of game with consequences but still let them play the game.
The corrupted players should only be visible by EVERY SINGLE players on the map (except other corrupted) and loot something like 1 piece of gear minimum per death + all the gold coins they have on them + impossible to group with other corrupted + impossible to get buff/heal except your own.
It would be enough punishment to prevent massive fpk and to keep the game fun.
No need to need to touch the characters stats. Just make the corrupted play alone.
But I hate this idea of touching stats.
I see more corruption like a style of game with consequences but still let them play the game.
the reason you "touch the stats" is to prevent people from using alts to pk free of consequence /facepalm
If the punishment for PKing is too harsh, no one will PK, if it isn't harsh enough, there will be (at the very minimum) a small amount of people who repeatedly PK and have a big negative impact on the community.
The only thing I've seen is maybe griefers will become bounty hunters? It might be more fun to go after reds than greens, but I can't predict the mind of a griefer as I am not one.
There's many kinds of people:
- people who have this wrong view that killing gatheres over and over is bad, so they become antigankers
- people who will be power tripping
- people who likes the hunt
- etc
What I would like to do?
Gank people with my alt just to make it red... then the bounty hunters will use their pathfinding skill and detect where my red player is on the map. When they activate that skill it will make them instantly purple... so when they come after my red alt I can ambush them with my main who now can gank them because they are purple!
So I can gank bounty hunters!
Write that down: when the game comes up there will be a thing called "corrupt baiting".
I'm so evil and smart!
You are not smart or evil you are the person who kills good games.
Comments
This way people who need to PK here and there can still do it once in a while and then do the quest when they can afford it, but all the genocidal assholes who think they can just go kill lowbies for free would get completely fucked by the corruption penalties.
But yes, it's all about balancing. I told you to read the wiki because you were saying that the corruption system was pointless because you'd be hardstopped by the system or just permacorrupted, when that is not the case (at least in the currently presented design).
I'm trying to find a way to communicate what I'm saying because I don't really think I've gotten my point across.
I'm trying to say there are 2 types of players.
Player A: Casual PKer, prefers to fight purples, but maybe they're bored and force a green to fight once in a while.
Player B: Hardcore griefer, loves killing greens and genuinely enjoys spending all day doing that. Abusing systems, waiting in a bush doing nothing, whatever it is doesn't matter as long as they can kill some unsuspecting players and emote on their corpse.
My point is that any system harsh enough to deter Player B, would be so punishing that Player A wouldn't even want to casually partake.
The only thing I've seen is maybe griefers will become bounty hunters? It might be more fun to go after reds than greens, but I can't predict the mind of a griefer as I am not one.
I'm just tryna spur up discussions on a public forum about stuff I think about, I don't think I'm doing a disservice to anyone by doing that. If I'm wrong you can call me out and people will see that, I'm not spreading misinformation by casually voicing my opinion.
A genocide player would go through those 15 kills in a day, if not hours. But then he'd be hit with a huge wall of either "another PK and you're going down to lvl10 in stats" or "go do a super long super hard super expensive quest to decrease your counter". And unless he makes an alt to go kill lowbies at their own lvl - he wouldn't be able to kill any more people. And that's completely fine. We're all here to discuss stuff. But you've had several threads now (and mentioned in other discussions) that griefers will have free reign in the game when that's not true even with currently presented design, let alone a changed design with harsher penalties that could come about in testing.
Your posts went from "griefers gonna grief and there's no way to stop them" to "why even have corruption if it's so damn harsh" just after learning that corruption penalties "grow" (functionally that is) with time.
That is why I said that you should properly educate yourself on the current design. Any potential newcomer could see your posts about OP griefers and think "fuck this game if that's the case", and god fucking knows those newcomers never go to the wiki even when told to do so.
Or alternatively a pvper could see you say "corruption is way too damn harsh because it can't even be removed" and think "oh, I thought this game was all about pvp. Oh well", and move on from the game.
Spot on!
There's many kinds of people:
- people who have this wrong view that killing gatheres over and over is bad, so they become antigankers
- people who will be power tripping
- people who likes the hunt
- etc
What I would like to do?
Gank people with my alt just to make it red... then the bounty hunters will use their pathfinding skill and detect where my red player is on the map. When they activate that skill it will make them instantly purple... so when they come after my red alt I can ambush them with my main who now can gank them because they are purple!
So I can gank bounty hunters!
Write that down: when the game comes up there will be a thing called "corrupt baiting".
I'm so evil and smart!
I think we've kind of gone in a circle. I'm still saying that from everything I've seen/heard/read and from everything you've told me, that either PKing won't be worth doing, OR that griefing will be an issue. I'm saying it could be either because we don't know the specific numbers or how it is balanced. But here is my point:
I disagree that the systems currently being discussed, can be balanced.
Whether PK count is bad at 5 PKs or bad at 50 PKs doesn't change anything, it just makes it harsher or more lenient, but which side is benefiting doesn't matter if it's still unbalanced on either extreme.
Yeah like you'd be better at giving examples than me because I'm not a big PKer, I prefer arenas and stuff.
My point is that players like you are looking for creative ways to get around or even exploit these systems for your own benefit, and that is part of the fun for ya'll, so there is no way that they can balance the system without basically destroying PKing in general.
Learning is fun!
It is just like doing puzzles.
Everybody plays for their own benefit.
Well... what you said is very true, I think the Corruption system at the momment seems a bit too harsh.
PKs also run patrols for killing all afk gold farms and botters and completely wreck botters and gold farms, they are just like the community's immune system ingame economic abuse.
A regular carebear will only whine.
The inteligent carebear will let all afk gold farms die and he will do his farming and crafting in a more profitable way since all botters were killed and looted.
in regard to your stealth. So if your corrupted you are revealed on the map to boundy hunters its not known wether or not you stay revealed on the map dispite stealth so they always have a general location of you when ur stealth and might be able to boop you out of it still.
Another thing is we also dont know if stealth is perma or like GW2 a temporary thing so you will eventually pop out of it.
Yeah, there are a lot of assumptions we all have to make when we have discussions because at the end of the day, probably everything we know about the game will change at least a little bit in the years before launch. But there should definitely be classes that can at least find it easier to avoid attention in theory.
The Corruption system is intended to dissuade the types of PvP-ganking and ambush that will typically result in Corruption; There are other types of PvP that don't involve garnering any.
Corruption is meant to annoy people whom make themselves annoying to others, via Corrupt-able, PvP acts. If your response is akin to what I've snipped in this quote, I'd say it's already working....
I'm an arena PvPer, I probably won't open world PvP much if ever, while leveling/progressing. If corruption is super mega harsh than I'm incentivized to stay green always right?
How do you know an assassin will be able to just burst down another player like that. It's a different game. Think before you post. You also seem to lack information about the game. Just another "big brain person", that think they can point out things that is wrong with the game, despite the things haven't been tested yet
You can replace assassin with any burst damage rogue class.
If you're trying to assume that rogue will lack burst damage I'm just going to have to disagree with you lol. Steven has said Rogues will have a lot of DoTs and debuffs, but it's also states very clearly that they have "frightening damage when hidden."
We know you are an arena pvper.
You wont change the game to make it like one of the countless instanced BG pvp.
Stop posting now.
Who are you even responding to? I never said I wanted the game to be an instanced battleground? I'll never understand why people just make stuff up in their head to respond to.
how so?
player a casually pk = no stat dampening.
player b hiding in a bush all day pking = stat dampening = cant pk.
the system punishes player b harshly but not player a, and player a can still casually pk...
That isn't how the system works though.
After PKing a certain amount of times, you'll have a high enough PK count for corruption to be too punishing to be worth it.
There are methods for removing corruption, and methods for lowering your PK count.
If lowering your PK count is really easy:
Player A will casually PK, and casually lower their PK count.
Player B will PK often, and lower their PK count often.
If lowering your PK count is really hard:
Player A will PK for a few kills but then stop almost completely, because they don't want to bother lowering their PK count.
Player B will PK casually, because they can't lower their PK count easily enough to PK all the time.
It's the problem of Player A being casual and Player B being hardcore.
Also, I feel like you (and quite a lot of other people in other threads) are forgetting that PKing =/= open world pvp. PK means killing someone who never wanted to fight back in the first place. If you're a pvper who allegedly has enough skill to challenge others to pvp - you should be able to remove someone from a location w/o immediately PKing them. PKing should be your last resort suffocation, no breathing.
And people in high lvl locations and especially in deep dungeons would most likely just fight back. Especially considering that those kinds of locations would be party-based rather than solo ones.
And who told you that you are free to kill people, as if you play some kind of instanced PvP zone?
The system doesnt seem to work for YOU, the arena pvper.
Not for the rest of us that have played open world pvp mmos.
yeah but u still have to make it alive to ur freehold. probably ony stealth will help here haha
Let the Undeground Transactions begin!
Have a good one all!
Wait is the point of the system that green players never die? I genuinely thought there was supposed to be a reason to kill green players. If that's the case then I just misunderstood.
My point was that if corruption is extremely harsh, than people can just stay green and never PvP or have to worry about getting PK'd. I thought that was not the intended experience but if that is the goal than I've misunderstood the point.
This is one of the reasons why I think the BH system is really weak (in its current design) and why I wanna see it become stronger and better, while the corruption gets a bit laxer and allows for marginally more PKs.
We still don't know how much stuff green will drop on death and with that loot being one of the bigger reasons to kill someone, if that amount is low - people will directly PK for resources very rarely. So PKing for locations will most likely become the biggest reason to kill someone, and at that point you either have party-based locations where people will most likely just flag up (though it'll mostly depend on healer design) or you have solo locations that might have BHs or just white knights present exactly because these locations will have the highest probability of getting a PKer.
The corruption system is a deterrent against baseless killings of passive players and an even bigger deterrent against genocidal actions. But it still allows you to kill someone if you deem it worth the risk.
It would be enough punishment to prevent massive fpk and to keep the game fun.
No need to need to touch the characters stats. Just make the corrupted play alone.
But I hate this idea of touching stats.
I see more corruption like a style of game with consequences but still let them play the game.
Bro you might as well make green players invincible at that point.
The kind of PKers who'd even get to a point where their stats are influenced are exactly the people who'd already be operating alone. And all the other PKers will most likely have parties defending them while they grind off their corruption.
And if dying is the only reasonable way to remove corruption - it makes things even easier for those partied up PKers.
Settle down
the reason you "touch the stats" is to prevent people from using alts to pk free of consequence /facepalm
You are not smart or evil you are the person who kills good games.