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Corruption Exploit

worddogworddog Member
edited October 2022 in General Discussion
Wiki wrote:

The primary means to remove corruption is through death.

Corrupt players will be able to utilize private storage in their Freeholds.

1. Play an assassin and own a freehold.
2. Stalk a gatherer until they've gathered a bunch of resources.
3. Attack them with all your burst damage.
4. If they attack you, kill them and repeat step 2.
5. If they don't attack you, kill them while they are green.
6. Return to your freehold and store all your items.
7. Get your character killed.
8. Respawn with no corruption, repeat step 2.
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Comments

  • SongRuneSongRune Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited October 2022
    9. Have bounty hunters camp your freehold
    10. Have gatherers avoid your freehold so you have to run further while camped by bounty hunters.

    Your stats will also be going down, and down, and down, as you do this, unless you work off all the XP debt from your corruption (as the ever-increasing PK count continues to make it worse each time). Per the wiki, stat damping from XP debt not apply only to corrupted players.
  • JahlonJahlon Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha One
    7a Gain 8% to 12% of a level in negative XP
    7b Making your character useless in equal level PVP until you grind that off
    7c Remember that it takes 45 days 4-6 hours a day to reach max level, so 12% of a level is no small amount of XP
    7d Realize that stealing from caravans would be better for more resources in less time with no corruption

    hpsmlCJ.jpg
    Make sure to check out Ashes 101
  • worddogworddog Member
    edited October 2022
    SongRune wrote: »
    9. Have bounty hunters camp your freehold
    10. Have gatherers avoid your freehold so you have to run further while camped by bounty hunters.

    Your stats will also be going down, and down, and down, as you do this, unless you work off all the XP debt from your corruption (as the ever-increasing PK count continues to make it worse each time). Per the wiki, stat damping from XP debt not apply only to corrupted players.
    Jahlon wrote: »
    7a Gain 8% to 12% of a level in negative XP
    7b Making your character useless in equal level PVP until you grind that off
    7c Remember that it takes 45 days 4-6 hours a day to reach max level, so 12% of a level is no small amount of XP
    7d Realize that stealing from caravans would be better for more resources in less time with no corruption

    From what I read, XP debt was only one of the methods, you can die to remove all negative effects of corruption. So dying enough times would make you essentially the same as a fresh green player.

    Also freeholds are safe zones at all times except for node sieges.

    If you're an assassin or some class with a stealth mechanic it should be a lot easier to travel undetected.
  • SongRuneSongRune Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    worddog wrote: »
    SongRune wrote: »
    9. Have bounty hunters camp your freehold
    10. Have gatherers avoid your freehold so you have to run further while camped by bounty hunters.

    Your stats will also be going down, and down, and down, as you do this, unless you work off all the XP debt from your corruption (as the ever-increasing PK count continues to make it worse each time). Per the wiki, stat damping from XP debt not apply only to corrupted players.
    Jahlon wrote: »
    7a Gain 8% to 12% of a level in negative XP
    7b Making your character useless in equal level PVP until you grind that off
    7c Remember that it takes 45 days 4-6 hours a day to reach max level, so 12% of a level is no small amount of XP
    7d Realize that stealing from caravans would be better for more resources in less time with no corruption

    From what I read, XP debt was only one of the methods, you can die to remove all negative effects of corruption. So dying enough times would make you essentially the same as a fresh green player.

    Also freeholds are safe zones at all times except for node sieges.

    If you're an assassin or some class with a stealth mechanic it should be a lot easier to travel undetected.

    XP Debt is a normal death penalty for non-corrupt players. Dying won't remove that. Stat damping is an effect of XP debt.

    Dying lowers your corruption level, and brings you closer to being Green again, but it won't get rid of death penalties that even Green players experience. End result: You're Green and have a ton of XP debt and therefore stat damping.

    It's true that you can't be killed and drop your items now, but you're not free from penalty entirely.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    worddog wrote: »

    1. Play an assassin and own a freehold.
    2. Stalk a gatherer until they've gathered a bunch of resources.
    3. Attack them with all your burst damage.
    4. If they attack you, kill them and repeat step 2.
    5. If they don't attack you, kill them while they are green.
    6. Return to your freehold and store all your items.
    7. Get your character killed.
    8. Respawn with no corruption, repeat step 2.

    You still have 4x the normal death penalties when you die, so... I don't see what the exploit is.
  • StreviStrevi Member
    edited October 2022
    worddog wrote: »
    7. Get your character killed.
    ... and lose durability on your gear. Do you know how expensive will be to repair it?
    September 12. 2022: Being naked can also be used to bring a skilled artisan to different freeholds... Don't summon family!
  • At max level, xp debt will be awaiting an xpac lvl boost
  • SongRuneSongRune Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Strevi wrote: »
    worddog wrote: »
    7. Get your character killed.
    ... and lose durability on your gear. Do you know how expensive will be to repair it?

    Of course, the whole point was that he'd put his gear in the storage in his freehold before he died. Good try though.
  • SongRune wrote: »
    worddog wrote: »
    SongRune wrote: »
    9. Have bounty hunters camp your freehold
    10. Have gatherers avoid your freehold so you have to run further while camped by bounty hunters.

    Your stats will also be going down, and down, and down, as you do this, unless you work off all the XP debt from your corruption (as the ever-increasing PK count continues to make it worse each time). Per the wiki, stat damping from XP debt not apply only to corrupted players.
    Jahlon wrote: »
    7a Gain 8% to 12% of a level in negative XP
    7b Making your character useless in equal level PVP until you grind that off
    7c Remember that it takes 45 days 4-6 hours a day to reach max level, so 12% of a level is no small amount of XP
    7d Realize that stealing from caravans would be better for more resources in less time with no corruption

    From what I read, XP debt was only one of the methods, you can die to remove all negative effects of corruption. So dying enough times would make you essentially the same as a fresh green player.

    Also freeholds are safe zones at all times except for node sieges.

    If you're an assassin or some class with a stealth mechanic it should be a lot easier to travel undetected.

    XP Debt is a normal death penalty for non-corrupt players. Dying won't remove that. Stat damping is an effect of XP debt.

    Dying lowers your corruption level, and brings you closer to being Green again, but it won't get rid of death penalties that even Green players experience. End result: You're Green and have a ton of XP debt and therefore stat damping.

    It's true that you can't be killed and drop your items now, but you're not free from penalty entirely.

    But isn't the whole point of corruption that the penalty isn't very big unless you have a lot of corruption?

    If you're playing for 8 hours and kill a green, how long will it take to work off that single PK XP debt? 1 hour? 2? 3?

    If it takes 10 hours to work off a single PK penalty, I just wouldn't PvP.
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack
    Are you gona post anything good any time soon, or just more trivial stuff?
  • worddog wrote: »
    SongRune wrote: »
    9. Have bounty hunters camp your freehold
    10. Have gatherers avoid your freehold so you have to run further while camped by bounty hunters.

    Your stats will also be going down, and down, and down, as you do this, unless you work off all the XP debt from your corruption (as the ever-increasing PK count continues to make it worse each time). Per the wiki, stat damping from XP debt not apply only to corrupted players.
    Jahlon wrote: »
    7a Gain 8% to 12% of a level in negative XP
    7b Making your character useless in equal level PVP until you grind that off
    7c Remember that it takes 45 days 4-6 hours a day to reach max level, so 12% of a level is no small amount of XP
    7d Realize that stealing from caravans would be better for more resources in less time with no corruption

    From what I read, XP debt was only one of the methods, you can die to remove all negative effects of corruption. So dying enough times would make you essentially the same as a fresh green player.

    Also freeholds are safe zones at all times except for node sieges.

    If you're an assassin or some class with a stealth mechanic it should be a lot easier to travel undetected.

    dying removes more corruption than farming monsters. doesnt mean if you die once u gonna be at 0 corruption.
  • Depraved wrote: »
    worddog wrote: »
    SongRune wrote: »
    9. Have bounty hunters camp your freehold
    10. Have gatherers avoid your freehold so you have to run further while camped by bounty hunters.

    Your stats will also be going down, and down, and down, as you do this, unless you work off all the XP debt from your corruption (as the ever-increasing PK count continues to make it worse each time). Per the wiki, stat damping from XP debt not apply only to corrupted players.
    Jahlon wrote: »
    7a Gain 8% to 12% of a level in negative XP
    7b Making your character useless in equal level PVP until you grind that off
    7c Remember that it takes 45 days 4-6 hours a day to reach max level, so 12% of a level is no small amount of XP
    7d Realize that stealing from caravans would be better for more resources in less time with no corruption

    From what I read, XP debt was only one of the methods, you can die to remove all negative effects of corruption. So dying enough times would make you essentially the same as a fresh green player.

    Also freeholds are safe zones at all times except for node sieges.

    If you're an assassin or some class with a stealth mechanic it should be a lot easier to travel undetected.

    dying removes more corruption than farming monsters. doesnt mean if you die once u gonna be at 0 corruption.

    Yeah but you can just die as many times as you want cuz you take off your gear and stuff.
  • SongRune wrote: »
    Strevi wrote: »
    worddog wrote: »
    7. Get your character killed.
    ... and lose durability on your gear. Do you know how expensive will be to repair it?

    Of course, the whole point was that he'd put his gear in the storage in his freehold before he died. Good try though.

    I thought corrupted players cannot unequip gear. Most likely was only a suggestion on forum. :confused:
    September 12. 2022: Being naked can also be used to bring a skilled artisan to different freeholds... Don't summon family!
  • SongRuneSongRune Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Strevi wrote: »
    SongRune wrote: »
    Strevi wrote: »
    worddog wrote: »
    7. Get your character killed.
    ... and lose durability on your gear. Do you know how expensive will be to repair it?

    Of course, the whole point was that he'd put his gear in the storage in his freehold before he died. Good try though.

    I thought corrupted players cannot unequip gear. Most likely was only a suggestion on forum. :confused:

    The Corruption wiki page has no mention of that. It wouldn't have been strange as a forum suggestion, though, so you did probably hear it here.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    worddog wrote: »
    But isn't the whole point of corruption that the penalty isn't very big unless you have a lot of corruption?

    If you're playing for 8 hours and kill a green, how long will it take to work off that single PK XP debt? 1 hour? 2? 3?

    If it takes 10 hours to work off a single PK penalty, I just wouldn't PvP.
    Expect it to take 4x the time it takes for the Non-Combatant you killed to work off ther death penalties.
  • superhero6785superhero6785 Member
    edited October 2022
    Ultimately, it comes down to testing. If this does become exploitable in some way, the easy solution is to implement diminishing returns from death. That way, killing yourself over and over in quick succession won't reduce your Corruption in any meaningful way. Perhaps a 1 hour Corruption Death debuff cooldown? Dying while under this debuff won't reduce your Corruuption any further? You can't escape the punishment!
    f51pcwlbgn8a.png
  • worddog wrote: »
    Yeah but you can just die as many times as you want cuz you take off your gear and stuff.
    If you have literal hundreds of hours to constantly relevel yourself after killing a single fucking gatherer who only drops a portion of his mats (hell, even if it's 50% it's still barely anything) why in the fuck would you not just make an alt, level it up as a gatherer and go gather the same stuff but in much bigger quantities in much shorter time?

    Or do what Jahlon said - go raid a caravan and get away with xDozens more mats than what you'd get from a single gatherer.

    Oh, also "stalk a gatherer until they're worth a kill" too :D So you're not only wasting time removing XP debt, but you're also literally standing around waiting for a dude to gather some grass. Amazing way to spend you in-game time. Genius even.
  • Are you gona post anything good any time soon, or just more trivial stuff?

    Why are you saying that like I'm a content creator or something, I'm just posting on a forum bro lol
  • NiKr wrote: »
    worddog wrote: »
    Yeah but you can just die as many times as you want cuz you take off your gear and stuff.
    If you have literal hundreds of hours to constantly relevel yourself after killing a single fucking gatherer who only drops a portion of his mats (hell, even if it's 50% it's still barely anything) why in the fuck would you not just make an alt, level it up as a gatherer and go gather the same stuff but in much bigger quantities in much shorter time?

    Or do what Jahlon said - go raid a caravan and get away with xDozens more mats than what you'd get from a single gatherer.

    Oh, also "stalk a gatherer until they're worth a kill" too :D So you're not only wasting time removing XP debt, but you're also literally standing around waiting for a dude to gather some grass. Amazing way to spend you in-game time. Genius even.

    Green players drop more resources than purple players.

    Why would it take hundreds of hours to remove corruption after a single PK? If that was the case you might as well have opt-in PvP cuz it's the same thing.
  • Ultimately, it comes down to testing. If this does become exploitable in some way, the easy solution is to implement diminishing returns from death. That way, killing yourself over and over in quick succession won't reduce your Corruption in any meaningful way. Perhaps a 1 hour Corruption Death debuff cooldown? Dying while under this debuff won't reduce your Corruuption any further? You can't escape the punishment!

    I just wonder at what point does it all become meaningless. Like either corruption is too weak and PKers just find a way around it, or it's so strong that no one PKs.
  • Dygz wrote: »
    worddog wrote: »
    But isn't the whole point of corruption that the penalty isn't very big unless you have a lot of corruption?

    If you're playing for 8 hours and kill a green, how long will it take to work off that single PK XP debt? 1 hour? 2? 3?

    If it takes 10 hours to work off a single PK penalty, I just wouldn't PvP.
    Expect it to take 4x the time it takes for the Non-Combatant you killed to work off ther death penalties.

    So I'd assume less than an hour. If a green player has to grind for more than 20 minutes after every death I know for a fact the majority of players will not enjoy that system, and if they say they do it's just lying.
  • worddog wrote: »
    Why would it take hundreds of hours to remove corruption after a single PK? If that was the case you might as well have opt-in PvP cuz it's the same thing.
    Because this
    worddog wrote: »
    8. Respawn with no corruption, repeat step 2.

    If you plan on repeating your actions, you'll have more and more corruption for each new kill. It has been stated previously that you'll need several deaths if you have a lot of corruption. One death would put you at around 8-12%XP debt. Considering that leveling is supposed to take a ton of time, I'd assume that ~10%XP at max lvl is at least an hour or two of peak value grind (quite possible even more if done through quests).

    With several deaths per kill you'll be setting yourself back by dozens of hours every time you get some measly lumps of mats. All in all, in the context of repeated offenses (that you indicated in your post), you'll be spending hundreds of hours removing your XP debt instead of just going out and farming the mats yourself or just raiding a caravan. And that's under the assumption that you'll be using complete and utter trash for gear and that your each death will be purely at the hands of your friends rather than strangers. And don't forget that PKers have random respawns, so that last part is in no way assured.
  • NiKr wrote: »
    worddog wrote: »
    Why would it take hundreds of hours to remove corruption after a single PK? If that was the case you might as well have opt-in PvP cuz it's the same thing.
    Because this
    worddog wrote: »
    8. Respawn with no corruption, repeat step 2.

    If you plan on repeating your actions, you'll have more and more corruption for each new kill. It has been stated previously that you'll need several deaths if you have a lot of corruption. One death would put you at around 8-12%XP debt. Considering that leveling is supposed to take a ton of time, I'd assume that ~10%XP at max lvl is at least an hour or two of peak value grind (quite possible even more if done through quests).

    With several deaths per kill you'll be setting yourself back by dozens of hours every time you get some measly lumps of mats. All in all, in the context of repeated offenses (that you indicated in your post), you'll be spending hundreds of hours removing your XP debt instead of just going out and farming the mats yourself or just raiding a caravan. And that's under the assumption that you'll be using complete and utter trash for gear and that your each death will be purely at the hands of your friends rather than strangers. And don't forget that PKers have random respawns, so that last part is in no way assured.

    I thought removing corruption actually removed it.

    If there is no way to lower your corruption then PKing just doesn't exist anymore after a year? Why even let players kill greens at that point.
  • SongRune wrote: »
    Strevi wrote: »
    SongRune wrote: »
    Strevi wrote: »
    worddog wrote: »
    7. Get your character killed.
    ... and lose durability on your gear. Do you know how expensive will be to repair it?

    Of course, the whole point was that he'd put his gear in the storage in his freehold before he died. Good try though.

    I thought corrupted players cannot unequip gear. Most likely was only a suggestion on forum. :confused:

    The Corruption wiki page has no mention of that. It wouldn't have been strange as a forum suggestion, though, so you did probably hear it here.

    But!! That means it is not an exploit!
    Corrupted players need a little bit of love too for the services they provide. :)
    September 12. 2022: Being naked can also be used to bring a skilled artisan to different freeholds... Don't summon family!
  • worddog wrote: »
    I thought removing corruption actually removed it.

    If there is no way to lower your corruption then PKing just doesn't exist anymore after a year? Why even let players kill greens at that point.
    You get a PK counter tick with each kill. This way any new PK you do will give you higher corruption than the last PK. It's designed this way exactly to prevent the kind of shit you want to do.

    I really advise you to go reread the wiki several times over cause a ton of your suggestions come from a place of either not knowing or just not fully understanding the current systems.
  • NiKr wrote: »
    worddog wrote: »
    I thought removing corruption actually removed it.

    If there is no way to lower your corruption then PKing just doesn't exist anymore after a year? Why even let players kill greens at that point.
    You get a PK counter tick with each kill. This way any new PK you do will give you higher corruption than the last PK. It's designed this way exactly to prevent the kind of shit you want to do.

    I really advise you to go reread the wiki several times over cause a ton of your suggestions come from a place of either not knowing or just not fully understanding the current systems.

    Why would I want do anything I've talked about? I'm just posting an observation on the systems from what I've heard.

    Also when you say current systems, the game doesn't exist, so none of these systems exist. If I'm unaware of whatever the newest information is it's alright for me to ask.

    Also corruption and many other systems are obviously going to be different after the next 2-5 years this game remains in development.

    And again, why even have corruption then. If you cannot PK after like your 20th PK then why even bother having it there in the first place?

    And if you're interested in my personal opinion, I would love corruption to be super strict like you're saying it is. I don't open world PvP, I'm only interested in arenas and battlegrounds.
  • worddog wrote: »
    And again, why even have corruption then. If you cannot PK after like your 20th PK then why even bother having it there in the first place?
    Once the fuck again, I plead with you to go read the damned wiki.
    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Removing_corruption

    We all know and fully realize that the systems might, and most likely will, change. My point is that if you're posting several suggestions in a row based on your wrong preconceived notions - it'd be much better for you and for the community if you knew what the current plan is and then give feedback on that rather than on false (or non-existent) information.

    There's been a shitton of threads by people who either got no idea what the game is about or have somehow heard misinfo about it. You suggestions add onto the pile of that misinfo. And if you had read the current design and then made feedback on that, not only would more people be interested in what you might have to say, but you would also better the community by providing the correct information in your posts. It would also save people some time on not correcting your assumptions (because we want to keep the info straight so that fewer people get confused about the system, cause god knows there's already way too fucking many who are).
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    worddog wrote: »

    But isn't the whole point of corruption that the penalty isn't very big unless you have a lot of corruption?

    No, that is not the point.
  • NiKr wrote: »
    worddog wrote: »
    And again, why even have corruption then. If you cannot PK after like your 20th PK then why even bother having it there in the first place?
    Once the fuck again, I plead with you to go read the damned wiki.
    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Removing_corruption

    We all know and fully realize that the systems might, and most likely will, change. My point is that if you're posting several suggestions in a row based on your wrong preconceived notions - it'd be much better for you and for the community if you knew what the current plan is and then give feedback on that rather than on false (or non-existent) information.

    There's been a shitton of threads by people who either got no idea what the game is about or have somehow heard misinfo about it. You suggestions add onto the pile of that misinfo. And if you had read the current design and then made feedback on that, not only would more people be interested in what you might have to say, but you would also better the community by providing the correct information in your posts. It would also save people some time on not correcting your assumptions (because we want to keep the info straight so that fewer people get confused about the system, cause god knows there's already way too fucking many who are).

    I read the wiki. It changed literally nothing about what I said other than specifics.

    The only new information is that you might have to do a quest or something to lower your PK score.

    Whether you can or can't doesn't change foundation of what I said.

    If lowering your PK score takes way too long than no one is going to bother PKing, if it doesn't take much time than some people will repeatedly PK.

    Whatever you want to call it, PK score, corruption, whatever, here is what I'm saying:

    If the punishment for PKing is too harsh, no one will PK, if it isn't harsh enough, there will be (at the very minimum) a small amount of people who repeatedly PK and have a big negative impact on the community.
  • OkeydokeOkeydoke Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    worddog wrote: »
    If the punishment for PKing is too harsh, no one will PK, if it isn't harsh enough, there will be (at the very minimum) a small amount of people who repeatedly PK and have a big negative impact on the community.

    There is a middle ground. That middle ground might not be good enough for the people on the extremes. But it will absolutely be enough to sustain and make the game profitable, with a healthy population.

    With one caveat, Intrepid has to make a good game. Like the basics of game making, the fundamentals, they have to be good.
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