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PVE Loving Game Design Experts are Sprouting in Abundance

AbaratAbarat Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
Anyone notice a shift in the attitude?

Since the map size and open pvp rules change, there have been a plethora of PVE loving (newly discovered) game development experts that now believe there are issues at Intrepid with their staff and vision? Lack of experience, no Lead Game Designer, developers that wont stand up to Steven, etc. It seems pretty crazy to me.

Its like they think there must be problems because the studio has a slightly different vision than they do.

Thoughts?
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Comments

  • Abarat wrote: »
    Thoughts?

    Nope, cuz i'm not actively involved with the games development. I can throw my ideas out there, but it's really none of my business what the actual developers choose to do.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Eh, it's the usual ebb and flow of opinions. And this wave of pvers was triggered by the Lucky Ghost's video and Asmon's reaction to it. And then you just have a chain reaction of people thinking that THEY'VE GOT THE ANSWER!

    If the gathering showcase in this dev stream is as amazing as the other recently revealed stuff, I expect to see even more pvers coming here and telling us that the game will die if they can be attacked while gathering.
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    This is only the start when its closer to release and on wow hardcore pvers ready to jump on the new mmorpg their streamers are playing going to be here in zergs saying pver server when. And wanting all dungeons to be open at the start (not connected to nodes) and wanting instances.
  • CROW3CROW3 Member, Alpha Two
    Just the normal reaction to the release of some video / spotlight, those are just coming in greater frequency recently.
    AoC+Dwarf+750v3.png
  • VeeshanVeeshan Member, Alpha Two
    I still dont think openworld PvP these guys are crying about will be a huge thing your more likely to get Pve grief i feel in most cases. Due to size of the world and lack of fast travels your gonna get pockets of higher pvp area where PvP guild have taken up residence in the node, So i feel most PvP gonna occur around area of the map that has higher levels of pvp where other portions away from where pvp guild set up there node there living out of will be relativly low amount of pvp.
    Now if PvE players outnumber PvP players as they claim then this should be the case, not to mention alot of PvP players dont grief ontop of that which reduces it further (Killing somone once and moving on isnt griefing atleast to most people) camping them is and killing underleveled player are though which should be addressed via corruption system atleast outside of node wars/war declarations which from my understanding bypasses corruption system.
  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    Abarat wrote: »
    Anyone notice a shift in the attitude?

    Since the map size and open pvp rules change, there have been a plethora of PVE loving (newly discovered) game development experts that now believe there are issues at Intrepid with their staff and vision? Lack of experience, no Lead Game Designer, developers that wont stand up to Steven, etc. It seems pretty crazy to me.

    Its like they think there must be problems because the studio has a slightly different vision than they do.

    Thoughts?

    well, look. how many times do you call your internet service provider to tell them your service is fine, and theres nothign wrong with it, and you arent experiencing any issues? 0 right?

    you only call when you have a problem. this is what happens here. people who are happy with the direction of the game wont post saying everything is fine and they are happy. its only a small minotiry of people who post to complain cuz they dont like something.

    you can tell its a small minority because its the same 10-20 people posting in every thread, aside from new accounts every now and then that make a new thread to complain about something
  • Kubitz2Kubitz2 Member, Alpha Two
    It shows perfectly, what is wrong in the current mmorpg landscape. All the big AAA mmos try to please these two audiences, represented by Asmon and LG.

    The LuckyGhost crowd:
    -wants to play solo but at the same time have the biggest crowd possible in the the background, to not feel lonely. Group content should be solo gameplay with other gamers, or completly soloable if you want to. Guilds are a voice-chat to join while sologaming.

    The Asmon crowd: - PvP combat is the most important thing. Griefing is no real problem, except when a lowbie, no-skill carebear doesn't leave MY grindspot or gathering route because then he griefs me. PvP should be skillbased, fast, competetive and balanced for duells/arena. The best shall rule.

    Yes, both would protest vehemently to be categorized thus, but their recent vids justifies it imho.

    Every big current/new mmorpg tries to please one or the other, while not alienating the other side too much. Development is expensive and corporate-shareholders won't tolerate game designs that alienate one or both of these audiences. Profit rules.

    I hope and believe, that AoC doesn't prioritize either direction, but focuses on enjoyable groupplay.
    And yes....I think that the PvP in AoC will not be designed in the way most PvPers want it to be. It will be much more designed to be enjoyable for casuals, than they would like.
  • Kubitz2 wrote: »
    It shows perfectly, what is wrong in the current mmorpg landscape. All the big AAA mmos try to please these two audiences, represented by Asmon and LG.

    The LuckyGhost crowd:
    -wants to play solo but at the same time have the biggest crowd possible in the the background, to not feel lonely. Group content should be solo gameplay with other gamers, or completly soloable if you want to. Guilds are a voice-chat to join while sologaming.

    The Asmon crowd: - PvP combat is the most important thing. Griefing is no real problem, except when a lowbie, no-skill carebear doesn't leave MY grindspot or gathering route because then he griefs me. PvP should be skillbased, fast, competetive and balanced for duells/arena. The best shall rule.

    Yes, both would protest vehemently to be categorized thus, but their recent vids justifies it imho.

    Every big current/new mmorpg tries to please one or the other, while not alienating the other side too much. Development is expensive and corporate-shareholders won't tolerate game designs that alienate one or both of these audiences. Profit rules.

    I hope and believe, that AoC doesn't prioritize either direction, but focuses on enjoyable groupplay.
    And yes....I think that the PvP in AoC will not be designed in the way most PvPers want it to be. It will be much more designed to be enjoyable for casuals, than they would like.

    I agree with this post. Maybe we should have a balance of both pve and pvp and we could call it pvx :D
  • Smork1Smork1 Member
    edited October 2022
    I think there is a healhy dose of FEAR on both sides, every one wants something new and they want that new thing to represent their values.

    Both sides want to be the loudest in hopes to sway the direction of the game in their favour. Mixed in between all the squabble there will be valid points that hopefully the AoC team can take away from.

    What I've noticed in pretty much every thread I've read on here is ONE glaring common trap people are falling into. They are responding and argueing against other people with only ASSUMPTIONS of how the game/system will work which is incredibly immature.

    Yes you can draw from similar games but none from what I've seen compare to the system AoC will implement and untill we see that system in action, we should not be making up false scenarios and assumptions about the game/system.
  • Kubitz2Kubitz2 Member, Alpha Two
    Lust69 wrote: »
    I agree with this post. Maybe we should have a balance of both pve and pvp and we could call it pvx :D

    Yes, that's what Steven calls it. But that's not my point. I'm saying that it will be a PvX game, but that's not really the issue, why people will like it or not. If I listen to Steven, when he describes his vision for his game and how he defines PvX, I hear, that he doesn't want AoC to be defined in any of those terms. What he wants is a PwP(Player with Player) game. You PvE with others. PvP with others. What you play against isn't really important, as long as it's enjoyable and rewarding.
  • CawwCaww Member, Alpha Two
    there's a lot of PvE players out there so it's not surprising that it's a major perspective
  • Kubitz2Kubitz2 Member, Alpha Two
    edited October 2022
    Caww wrote: »
    there's a lot of PvE players out there so it's not surprising that it's a major perspective

    Yes...but I bet a good portion of them have never played enjoyable PvP. They may come to enjoy PvP where you don't just die against self defined PvPers. Where gear/level differences aren't as important as in other games. Where two lowbies have a good chance to kill a higher level.
    Don't scream all at once now, please, but yes, that's what I think Steven means by enjoyable PvP. That's what I mean, when I say that many PvPers won't like AoC either.
  • CawwCaww Member, Alpha Two
    Kubitz2 wrote: »
    Caww wrote: »
    there's a lot of PvE players out there so it's not surprising that it's a major perspective

    Yes...but I bet a good portion of them have never played enjoyable PvP. They may come to enjoy PvP where you don't just die against self defined PvPers.

    This is why the huge siege events may be one of the most popular PvP events in the game, just large groups (not zergs) having honest fights where either side has a good chance of winning, not over powered one-on-one slaughters.

  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    It's not super-new. Tends to happen in waves, but...
    This wave is probably mostly due to the recent Lucky Ghost/Asmongold vids.
    LG asks people to offer ideas for how to "fix" the Corruption PvP-flagging in Ashes.
  • AbaratAbarat Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited October 2022
    Dygz wrote: »
    It's not super-new. Tends to happen in waves, but...
    This wave is probably mostly due to the recent Lucky Ghost/Asmongold vids.
    LG asks people to offer ideas for how to "fix" the Corruption PvP-flagging in Ashes.

    Yeah, I get that, not talking about suggestions... i am talking about how it has gone from i think it should work like this or that... to it must be because they dont have an experienced game designer since Jeff left... I believe you yourself have said/implied that @Dygz.

    Thats what i mean... i get all the suggestions and debate about how things will work/should work. I am just mystified by how it has turned into trouble in the studio.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    But... you are the one interpreting not having a Lead Game Designer as being "trouble in the studio".
    I haven't suggested there is "trouble in the studio".
  • AbaratAbarat Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited October 2022
    Dygz wrote: »
    But... you are the one interpreting not having a Lead Game Designer as being "trouble in the studio".
    I haven't suggested there is "trouble in the studio".

    AGAIN, SEMANTICS. You said/implied the game has lost its way since what you believe is a key position has not been filled... that is trouble in the studio by any account.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    It's not semantics.
    Just because you consider not filling a key position to be "trouble in the studio" does not make it true.
  • AbaratAbarat Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited October 2022
    I am trying, Dygz,

    *edited for meanness. sorry
  • Is the next thread you make the one you finally propose to Dygz, @Abarat?
  • AbaratAbarat Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited October 2022
    Is the next thread you make the one you finally propose to Dygz, @Abarat?

    Not the way things are going, but I am trying. I was a big fan of Theory Forge before Dygz started his "I am not going to play" antics. I somehow feel it is my job to bring Dygz back.

    I am failing.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited October 2022
    Haha.
    I mean... that's like me trying to get my friend who doesn't like chocolate to eat chocolate.
    I just don't like to play games that have permanent zones that auto-flag me as a Combatant.
  • AbaratAbarat Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    What if it was a delicious, complex dessert and had a small piece of chocolate as part of it, but you can just set that aside or give it to a friend, and still enjoy the rest of it?
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited October 2022
    I probably would pick a desert that doesn't make me have to pick out the chocolate.
    Someone who likes chocolate is welcome to eat the desert with chocolate.

    I wouldn't hand a friend who doesn't like chocolate a desert with chocolate in it and expect them to eat it.
  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    im just trying to understand you here.

    so what do you do when you play a game where you cant kill other players, but you cant explore or farm resources because there are 94675765 people in the area collecting those resources on respawn 24/7?
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited October 2022
    My Bartle Score is Explorer 87%; Socializer 73% ; Achiever 47%; Killer 0%
    The Killer 0% is a bit off because I like PvP sometimes and even though I sometimes have alts playing the Carebear Challenge of 0 kills (and sometimes 0 kills; 0 deaths), my mains typically kill plenty of mobs to complete quests and level at a reasonable pace.

    So... I would be exploring and socializing/rping and not necessarily concerned about the farming of resources most of the time. I am a non-competitive, casual-challenge/hardcore time player, so...

    If I couldn't explore, I wouldn't be playing that game.
    I dunno why I wouldn't be able to explore other than there being a zone that auto-flags me for PvP when I don't want to be flagged for PvP.
    And, if I thought there was too much competition for resources, I would just wait for a time when the population is low.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    You are 73% Explorer
    67% Achiever
    40% Killer
    20% Socialiser
    :o
  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    edited October 2022
    Dygz wrote: »
    My Bartle Score is Explorer 87%; Socializer 73% ; Achiever 47%; Killer 0%
    The Killer 0% is a bit off because I like PvP sometimes and even though I sometimes have alts playing the Carebear Challenge of 0 kills (and sometimes 0 kills; 0 deaths), my mains typically kill plenty of mobs to complete quests and level at a reasonable pace.

    So... I would be exploring and socializing/rping and not necessarily concerned about the farming of resources most of the time. I am a non-competitive, casual-challenge/hardcore time player, so...

    If I couldn't explore, I wouldn't be playing that game.
    I dunno why I wouldn't be able to explore other than there being a zone that auto-flags me for PvP when I don't want to be flagged for PvP.
    And, if I thought there was too much competition for resources, I would just wait for a time when the population is low.

    i understand what you mean. you like exploration over everything else. but im still not convinced by your last statemnt. you would just wait until the population is low. so im guessing you would explore or do another activity. wouldnt it be the same as going to the open seas when the population is low and you wont be attacked? if you end up being attacked, you could just simply go do something else like explore a different area or do another activity. if you dont get attacked, then you get to explore the sea. or you could just go to the open seas when you are in the mood for pvp. eventually you will be able to explore the whole sea, little by little, over several days.

    also, where did you guys see those numbers? the bartle score thingie?

    edit: nvm i found this website https://matthewbarr.co.uk/bartle/index.php

    i got

    The Bartle Test of Gamer Psychology
    You are 67% Achiever
    What Bartle says:

    ♦ Achievers regard points-gathering and rising in levels as their main goal, and all is ultimately subserviant to this. Exploration is necessary only to find new sources of treasure, or improved ways of wringing points from it. Socialising is a relaxing method of discovering what other players know about the business of accumulating points, that their knowledge can be applied to the task of gaining riches. Killing is only necessary to eliminate rivals or people who get in the way, or to gain vast amounts of points (if points are awarded for killing other players).
    You are also:

    67% Killer
    33% Explorer
    33% Socialiser
    This result may be abbreviated as AKES

    seems accurate, except i like socializing too. i remember sitting for hours in RO pvp rooms just talking to people lmao, althoguh i didnt do that in many other games and i dont really mind farming alone (as in i dont get bored)
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Depraved wrote: »
    also, where did you guys see those numbers? the bartle score thingie?
    I got mine here
    https://matthewbarr.co.uk/bartle/
  • BaSkA_9x2BaSkA_9x2 Member, Alpha Two
    Abarat wrote: »
    Thoughts?

    If you think it's bad now, wait for the weeks before Alpha 2. Then the weeks before Beta 1 and Beta 2. If, after all that, the game still has owPvP, oh boy, the weeks before launch are gonna be a shitshow.
    🎶Galo é Galo o resto é bosta🎶
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