PVE Loving Game Design Experts are Sprouting in Abundance

Anyone notice a shift in the attitude?

Since the map size and open pvp rules change, there have been a plethora of PVE loving (newly discovered) game development experts that now believe there are issues at Intrepid with their staff and vision? Lack of experience, no Lead Game Designer, developers that wont stand up to Steven, etc. It seems pretty crazy to me.

Its like they think there must be problems because the studio has a slightly different vision than they do.

Thoughts?

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Abarat

GrandHarfang wrote: »

Is the next thread you make the one you finally propose to Dygz, @Abarat?

Not the way things are going, but I am trying. I was a big fan of Theory Forge before Dygz started his "I am not going to play" antics. I somehow feel it is my job to bring Dygz back.

I am failing.

Dygz

Haha.
I mean... that's like me trying to get my friend who doesn't like chocolate to eat chocolate.
I just don't like to play games that have permanent zones that auto-flag me as a Combatant.

Abarat

What if it was a delicious, complex dessert and had a small piece of chocolate as part of it, but you can just set that aside or give it to a friend, and still enjoy the rest of it?

Dygz

I probably would pick a desert that doesn't make me have to pick out the chocolate.
Someone who likes chocolate is welcome to eat the desert with chocolate.

I wouldn't hand a friend who doesn't like chocolate a desert with chocolate in it and expect them to eat it.

Depraved

im just trying to understand you here.

so what do you do when you play a game where you cant kill other players, but you cant explore or farm resources because there are 94675765 people in the area collecting those resources on respawn 24/7?

Dygz

My Bartle Score is Explorer 87%; Socializer 73% ; Achiever 47%; Killer 0%
The Killer 0% is a bit off because I like PvP sometimes and even though I sometimes have alts playing the Carebear Challenge of 0 kills (and sometimes 0 kills; 0 deaths), my mains typically kill plenty of mobs to complete quests and level at a reasonable pace.

So... I would be exploring and socializing/rping and not necessarily concerned about the farming of resources most of the time. I am a non-competitive, casual-challenge/hardcore time player, so...

If I couldn't explore, I wouldn't be playing that game.
I dunno why I wouldn't be able to explore other than there being a zone that auto-flags me for PvP when I don't want to be flagged for PvP.
And, if I thought there was too much competition for resources, I would just wait for a time when the population is low.

Ludullu

You are 73% Explorer
67% Achiever
40% Killer
20% Socialiser

Depraved

Dygz wrote: »

My Bartle Score is Explorer 87%; Socializer 73% ; Achiever 47%; Killer 0%
The Killer 0% is a bit off because I like PvP sometimes and even though I sometimes have alts playing the Carebear Challenge of 0 kills (and sometimes 0 kills; 0 deaths), my mains typically kill plenty of mobs to complete quests and level at a reasonable pace.

So... I would be exploring and socializing/rping and not necessarily concerned about the farming of resources most of the time. I am a non-competitive, casual-challenge/hardcore time player, so...

If I couldn't explore, I wouldn't be playing that game.
I dunno why I wouldn't be able to explore other than there being a zone that auto-flags me for PvP when I don't want to be flagged for PvP.
And, if I thought there was too much competition for resources, I would just wait for a time when the population is low.

i understand what you mean. you like exploration over everything else. but im still not convinced by your last statemnt. you would just wait until the population is low. so im guessing you would explore or do another activity. wouldnt it be the same as going to the open seas when the population is low and you wont be attacked? if you end up being attacked, you could just simply go do something else like explore a different area or do another activity. if you dont get attacked, then you get to explore the sea. or you could just go to the open seas when you are in the mood for pvp. eventually you will be able to explore the whole sea, little by little, over several days.

also, where did you guys see those numbers? the bartle score thingie?

edit: nvm i found this website https://matthewbarr.co.uk/bartle/index.php

i got

The Bartle Test of Gamer Psychology
You are 67% Achiever
What Bartle says:

♦ Achievers regard points-gathering and rising in levels as their main goal, and all is ultimately subserviant to this. Exploration is necessary only to find new sources of treasure, or improved ways of wringing points from it. Socialising is a relaxing method of discovering what other players know about the business of accumulating points, that their knowledge can be applied to the task of gaining riches. Killing is only necessary to eliminate rivals or people who get in the way, or to gain vast amounts of points (if points are awarded for killing other players).
You are also:

67% Killer
33% Explorer
33% Socialiser
This result may be abbreviated as AKES

seems accurate, except i like socializing too. i remember sitting for hours in RO pvp rooms just talking to people lmao, althoguh i didnt do that in many other games and i dont really mind farming alone (as in i dont get bored)

Ludullu

Depraved wrote: »

also, where did you guys see those numbers? the bartle score thingie?

I got mine here
https://matthewbarr.co.uk/bartle/

BaSkA_9x2

Abarat wrote: »

Thoughts?

If you think it's bad now, wait for the weeks before Alpha 2. Then the weeks before Beta 1 and Beta 2. If, after all that, the game still has owPvP, oh boy, the weeks before launch are gonna be a shitshow.

Abarat

I am:

80% pvp
72% pve
45% gathering/harvesting/fishing
28% crafting
12% talking about stupid things in discord
9% dygz fan
17% distracted by dumb stuff on the internet

Abarat

that thing is just dumb (but, the post above is accurate based upon my own scientific analysis)

Dygz

Depraved wrote: »

i understand what you mean. you like exploration over everything else. but im still not convinced by your last statemnt. you would just wait until the population is low. so im guessing you would explore or do another activity. wouldnt it be the same as going to the open seas when the population is low and you wont be attacked? if you end up being attacked, you could just simply go do something else like explore a different area or do another activity. if you dont get attacked, then you get to explore the sea. or you could just go to the open seas when you are in the mood for pvp. eventually you will be able to explore the whole sea, little by little, over several days.

No. It's kind of like the Scoville Scale.
I know what my heat threshold is. It's around a 2. Jalapeno/Serrano.
I might be up for the occassional, random, Cayenne/Thai.
But, if I specifically ask, "OK, but there's nothing like a Habanero or Fatali in your dish, right?
And the answer is, "Well, there's a small chance you might hit a Habanero or Fatali, especially if you bite into this section..."
I'm out. I'll just eat something else rather than deal with the possbility of biting into a Habanero or Fatali.

The only thing convincing me to possibly play Ashes is the Corruption mechanic. Assuming it suffciently deters non-consensual PvP.
Open Seas auto-flag as a Combatant tells me very clearly Ashes is not the game for me.
Because if I am killed by another player once under that circumstance, I will become enraged (same as if I bit into a Habanero or Fatali once). And I rarely even become angry. I'm only willing to be killed while exploring if the other person gains Corruption. That's the deal. And... a permanent zone without that deal is an automatic deal-breaker.
And, if it's a matter of. "Just don't go in that zone," I just won't play that game.
I like PvP sometimes. But not most of the time.
And I am more chill than Steven's concept of Risk v Reward.
Steven thinks that increased rewards will somehow make increased PvP feel worthwhile, but that just isn't the case for me.

Especially after today's Dev Livestream...
Steven has tripled-down and I consider the game to be a hardcore PvP-centric game.
Steven just uses car salesman hype-speak to try to obfuscate that.
I place Ashes in the same category as UO, EvE and ArcheAge... and probably Lineage 2.
Those are games that are too PvP-centric for me. I don't play them.
But, they are great games for gamers who love hardcore-challenge PvP. It will be awesome to have another game out there for those fans to play.

Abarat

Dygz wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

i understand what you mean. you like exploration over everything else. but im still not convinced by your last statemnt. you would just wait until the population is low. so im guessing you would explore or do another activity. wouldnt it be the same as going to the open seas when the population is low and you wont be attacked? if you end up being attacked, you could just simply go do something else like explore a different area or do another activity. if you dont get attacked, then you get to explore the sea. or you could just go to the open seas when you are in the mood for pvp. eventually you will be able to explore the whole sea, little by little, over several days.

No. It's kind of like the Scoville Scale.
I know what my heat threshold is. It's around a 2. Jalapeno/Serrano.
I might be up for the occassional, random, Cayenne/Thai.
But, if I specifically ask, "OK, but there's nothing like a Habanero or Fatali in your dish, right?
And the answer is, "Well, there's a small chance you might hit a Habanero or Fatali, especially if you bite into this section..."
I'm out. I'll just eat something else rather than deal with the possbility of biting into a Habanero or Fatali.

The only thing convincing me to possibly play Ashes is the Corruption mechanic. Assuming it suffciently deters non-consensual PvP.
Open Seas auto-flag as a Combatant tells me very clearly Ashes is not the game for me.
Because if I am killed by another player once under that circumstance, I will become enraged (same as if I bit into a Habanero or Fatali once). And I rarely even become angry.
And, if it's a matter of. "Just don't go in that zone," I just won't play that game.
I like PvP sometimes. But not most of the time.
And I am more chill than Steven's concept of Risk v Reward.
Steven thinks that increased rewards will somehow make increased PvP feel worthwhile, but that just isn't the case for me.

Especially after today's Dev Livestream...
Steven has triplled-down and I consider the game to be a hardcore PvP-centric game.
Steven just uses car salesman hype-speak to try to obfuscate that.
I place Ashes in the same category as UO, EvE and ArcheAge... and probably Lineage 2.
Those are games that are too PvP-centric for me. I don't play them.
But, they are great games for gamers who love hardcore-challenge PvP. It will be awesome to have another game out there for those fans to play.

Bye Dygz.... usually after a dramatic exit it is typical to typically EXIT.

Depraved

ok, i understand now with. thank you.

Smork1

Don't get your hopes up Abarat. Dygz says this game isn't for him about 10 times a day and he's still here. He has more copium supply than Narcs at this point.

Dygz

Abarat wrote: »

Bye Dygz.... usually after a dramatic exit it is typical to typically EXIT.

I dunno what is supposed to be dramatic about what I've said.
And... I never said I was exiting.
That is your mistaken interpretation of what I've said.

Smork1

I'm glad Dygz accepts all the concepts of AoC and will also continue to stay. Thats a very big sign that even hard core PvE ers will stick around. Thanks Dygz

Azherae

Smork wrote: »

Don't get your hopes up Abarat. Dygz says this game isn't for him about 10 times a day and he's still here. He has more copium supply than Narcs at this point.

Is this genuinely this weird/difficult to grasp?

That someone might decide to stay and help test or give feedback for a game they don't want to play?

Or is this moreso the concept that you don't think the game needs their feedback/presence?

Today's stream explicitly spelled out for me, for example, that I won't actually play this game past the initial sub that the Alpha One Tier covers. I had a line, Steven answered a question on stream that said outright "no we're crossing your line", and I mentally went 'oh ok that sucks, well, I should still do the testing'.

But one could genuinely argue that 'people who don't want to play the game shouldn't be giving feedback that might change it'. Is that what this is?

Ludullu

Azherae wrote: »

Today's stream explicitly spelled out for me, for example, that I won't actually play this game past the initial sub that the Alpha One Tier covers. I had a line, Steven answered a question on stream that said outright "no we're crossing your line", and I mentally went 'oh ok that sucks, well, I should still do the testing'.

Rip

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