Full Loot PvP Areas.

Whilst perusing the world map and looking over the islands of Sujoma, Draakathbohr and Peligora, I couldn't help but think that AoC might benefit from having some full loot PvP areas. What we have seen of the corruption system is nice (I also think it might be a good idea to have some completely safe areas like the actual Node settlements) but I have a concern that there won't be enough "gear churn" for gathering and crafting to always be in significant demand across the different tiers of gear.

If for example, you had one or more of those islands as a full loot zone, it could be completely avoided by people not interested in that type of gameplay, but for those who are interested in "Risk vs Reward" you would provide a space for people to gear up, ship out and then fight on a full loot island. It would create a continuous demand for gear of all different tiers as many may only want to equip lower-end cheaper gear to explore the island as if they die they won't lose too much.

It would create demand at the auction houses for people wanting/needing to replace sets they lose.

Currently, you can only lose gatherables upon death from your personal inventory (as well as suffer a durability loss which can be repaired for a silver sink) You can lose stuff that is loaded onto a caravan and a ship but where/when will you ever need to craft/replace a piece of gear once you have one? Perhaps there could be a trash rate applied to gear that when knocked down so that there is a chance a piece of gear you are wearing or weapon you are using trashes and needs to be replaced.

If a server is around 8000 people, where will the demand for sets come from after 8000 of a particular one has been crafted?

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Dygz

Lust69 wrote: »

Pvp players complain there isn’t enough Pvp and Pve players complain there isn’t enough Pve. Maybe it’s about right then? Pvx 🙂

I don't think the PvEer complaint is that Ashes does not have enough PvE.

Azherae

WHIT3ROS3 wrote: »

Both. Just have a potential percentage trash rate upon death which incentivises people to fight each other but also generates a need for new gear to be crafted.

How does it do that?

I'm not really understanding the appeal of 'going to an area to risk getting your gear destroyed'.

Is it just to ... weaken other people who are also willing to take the same risk? It doesn't really affect anyone who just doesn't bother.

Sengarden

Right… so you want me to feel okay about the team spending a significant amount of time producing content that will, inevitably, end in me losing a whole set of gear that took months worth of effort to acquire? I don’t think so. Getting an amazing piece (or more) of gear shouldn’t be as easy as getting lucky in a single PvP battle or catching an opportunity to attack someone after they barely survived another encounter. The risks are too high for this to entertain many players.

Having as many free PvP activities as there are already with some item drop (the entire ocean and castle ruins, plus involvement in sieges and wars) is more than enough for most PvEr’s tastes. Invest any more time going deeper down this rabbit hole and you’re going to start alienating moderate PvPers as well.

Dygz

WHIT3ROS3 wrote: »

Both. Just have a potential percentage trash rate upon death which incentivises people to fight each other but also generates a need for new gear to be crafted.

What is the incentive for people to fight each other?

WHIT3ROS3

Huh? You would go into a full loot area with the prospect of killing others and taking their loot. (Like everywhere else in the game) but there would also be a percentage chance that their gear would drop or be destroyed. This is just the same system as already exists everywhere but rather than just the gatherables you are carrying dropping, everything you have on you drops.

Dygz

Oh. Stealing gear from others is supposed to be the incentive to PK.
Gotcha.

Azherae

WHIT3ROS3 wrote: »

Huh? You would go into a full loot area with the prospect of killing others and taking their loot. (Like everywhere else in the game) but there would also be a percentage chance that their gear would drop or be destroyed. This is just the same system as already exists everywhere but rather than just the gatherables you are carrying dropping, everything you have on you drops.

Right but why? What's good about this? If any one person could win consistently enough, the system would be worse rather than better.

So what's the point of going to basically coinflip my own gear, and why would I go in good gear?

Solvryn

WHIT3ROS3 wrote: »

Whilst perusing the world map and looking over the islands of Sujoma, Draakathbohr and Peligora, I couldn't help but think that AoC might benefit from having some full loot PvP areas. What we have seen of the corruption system is nice (I also think it might be a good idea to have some completely safe areas like the actual Node settlements) but I have a concern that there won't be enough "gear churn" for gathering and crafting to always be in significant demand across the different tiers of gear.

If for example, you had one or more of those islands as a full loot zone, it could be completely avoided by people not interested in that type of gameplay, but for those who are interested in "Risk vs Reward" you would provide a space for people to gear up, ship out and then fight on a full loot island. It would create a continuous demand for gear of all different tiers as many may only want to equip lower-end cheaper gear to explore the island as if they die they won't lose too much.

It would create demand at the auction houses for people wanting/needing to replace sets they lose.

Currently, you can only lose gatherables upon death from your personal inventory (as well as suffer a durability loss which can be repaired for a silver sink) You can lose stuff that is loaded onto a caravan and a ship but where/when will you ever need to craft/replace a piece of gear once you have one? Perhaps there could be a trash rate applied to gear that when knocked down so that there is a chance a piece of gear you are wearing or weapon you are using trashes and needs to be replaced.

If a server is around 8000 people, where will the demand for sets come from after 8000 of a particular one has been crafted?

Most people will not play full loot.

WHIT3ROS3

Azherae wrote: »

Right but why? What's good about this? If any one person could win consistently enough, the system would be worse rather than better.

What do you mean? Why not? It's a game. Why do anything? Why are people going to go out into international waters? To fight each other and steal their stuff. Of course, they will also be looking to explore and do PVE but they will also be PvPing. Just like they will in almost every other part of the game. You already drop stuff upon death. Which will generate demand for those things (resources and gatherables) why not also have an activity in the game which contributes to the burn rate of crafted gear?

Azherae

WHIT3ROS3 wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

Right but why? What's good about this? If any one person could win consistently enough, the system would be worse rather than better.

What do you mean? Why not? It's a game. Why do anything? Why are people going to go out into international waters? To fight each other and steal their stuff. Of course, they will also be looking to explore and do PVE but they will also be PvPing. Just like they will in almost every other part of the game. You already drop stuff upon death. Which will generate demand for those things (resources and gatherable) why not also have an activity in the game which contributes to the burn rate of gear?

Yeah ok sorry, sheesh.

Just forget I said anything. If that sort of thing improves the game for you, so it is.

WHIT3ROS3

My suggestion came from a desire to have a healthy economy. There will need to be gear churn somewhere, if there isn't, the economy will be worthless.

Azherae

WHIT3ROS3 wrote: »

My suggestion came from a desire to have a healthy economy. There will need to be gear churn somewhere, if there isn't, the economy will be worthless.

Your suggestion has nothing to do with the economy unless most players want to participate in it, and even then the impact is pretty minimal compared to a ton of other things Intrepid could do.

It would have a lot to do with 'how people see and play the game and choose to interact with it'.

I've noticed that games with less players tend to have worse economies, I'd bet on 'Full Loot PvP' areas, even if mostly ignored, would lead to this game having less players. On the other hand, if you managed to make a bunch of people who normally like Economy games not want to play an MMO with full loot areas because of the type of player it attracts...

I guess there would be less crafters maybe, and that would reduce the gear gluts on the market.

Just two more days until G-Star... whew...

Arya_Yeshe

WHIT3ROS3 wrote: »

Huh? You would go into a full loot area with the prospect of killing others and taking their loot. (Like everywhere else in the game) but there would also be a percentage chance that their gear would drop or be destroyed. This is just the same system as already exists everywhere but rather than just the gatherables you are carrying dropping, everything you have on you drops.

I posted a new thread about this, it's a little different than your idea

Nova_terra

Churn can be easily found outside of "PvP island where it's full loot". If you think for a second 99.9% of people aren't going to be running to that island in greens 15 levels under their level looking for easy ganks to try and get someone elses greens 15 levels under their level you have not spent nearly enough time playing MMOs. This is a solved problem on degradation on death/use and having repair functions or having to get new weapons.

You are literally describing Nightmare Island and this is coming from a very vocally PvP positive person.

Azherae

Nova_terra wrote: »

You are literally describing Nightmare Island and this is coming from a very vocally PvP positive person.

Nope, sorry, as you know, by disagreeing with this premise you have now officially become a CareBear.

I will send you your Membership Card and a free brush later.

Arya_Yeshe

Full loot only scares people who grinds gear running many dungeons, doing transmutations and such

People who use any trash they can find aren't affraid of losing trash at all

Nova_terra

Azherae wrote: »

Nova_terra wrote: »

You are literally describing Nightmare Island and this is coming from a very vocally PvP positive person.

Nope, sorry, as you know, by disagreeing with this premise you have now officially become a CareBear.

I will send you your Membership Card and a free brush later.

The price I pay for quality game design conversations.

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

Full loot only scares people who grinds gear running many dungeons, doing transmutations and such

People who use any trash they can find aren't affraid of losing trash at all

I am not afraid of this "nightmarish hellscape" you all are describing, it's literally just going to end up being X people sitting in stealth or in "marked" locations that hide nameplates and then just ganking random people looking to score. The Island would bring no value to PvPers or PvEers unless you put some sort of ultra rare loot as a prize or something in which case the powerful guilds will absolutely shut down whatever is happening there and sit on that spawn/boss/etc.

If that is your idea of fun (which I know it is) then you can waste hours of your day in that place but it would just end up being a bunch of stealth groups going around dropping garbage gear which would defeat any sort of meaningful PvP happening there.

Ludullu

Wait, now that I think about it, WE SHOULD DO IT! All the literal psychos that want this kind of content will just go constantly die on some random island in the middle of nowhere, while everyone else can just enjoy they game normally.

Azherae

NiKr wrote: »

Wait, now that I think about it, WE SHOULD DO IT! All the literal psychos that want this kind of content will just go constantly die on some random island in the middle of nowhere, while everyone else can just enjoy they game normally.

I hope you're being sarcastic, but if somehow not, I can tell you that this ain't what actually happens...

Arya_Yeshe

Nova_terra wrote: »

I am not afraid of this "nightmarish hellscape" you all are describing, it's literally just going to end up being X people sitting in stealth or in "marked" locations that hide nameplates and then just ganking random people looking to score. The Island would bring no value to PvPers or PvEers unless you put some sort of ultra rare loot as a prize or something in which case the powerful guilds will absolutely shut down whatever is happening there and sit on that spawn/boss/etc.

If that is your idea of fun (which I know it is) then you can waste hours of your day in that place but it would just end up being a bunch of stealth groups going around dropping garbage gear which would defeat any sort of meaningful PvP happening there.

I didn't propose any idea in this thread

What you are describing is camping, controling the camp is what matters, the big fights will happen between the people who want to control the area, everybody else is food if you are bad

Instead of whinning about it, the players can actually join the campers or they can bring friends and dunk on the campers

People can use one or two characters as bait and then kill the campers

See? I am offering the perspective of a normal person in a full loot MMO, it's very different than a carebear perspective

Camping grounds have extense power struggles among the people interested in camping there, it's super cool and engaging, not nightmarish at all

I died in camps in the past and I also camped a lot too

Dying to camps NEVER hindered me in the game, I kept progressing regardless a few deaths

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