My suggestion came from a desire to have a healthy economy. There will need to be gear churn somewhere, if there isn't, the economy will be worthless.
Your suggestion has nothing to do with the economy unless most players want to participate in it, and even then the impact is pretty minimal compared to a ton of other things Intrepid could do.
It would have a lot to do with 'how people see and play the game and choose to interact with it'.
I've noticed that games with less players tend to have worse economies, I'd bet on 'Full Loot PvP' areas, even if mostly ignored, would lead to this game having less players. On the other hand, if you managed to make a bunch of people who normally like Economy games not want to play an MMO with full loot areas because of the type of player it attracts...
I guess there would be less crafters maybe, and that would reduce the gear gluts on the market.
Huh? You would go into a full loot area with the prospect of killing others and taking their loot. (Like everywhere else in the game) but there would also be a percentage chance that their gear would drop or be destroyed. This is just the same system as already exists everywhere but rather than just the gatherables you are carrying dropping, everything you have on you drops.
I posted a new thread about this, it's a little different than your idea
PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
Churn can be easily found outside of "PvP island where it's full loot". If you think for a second 99.9% of people aren't going to be running to that island in greens 15 levels under their level looking for easy ganks to try and get someone elses greens 15 levels under their level you have not spent nearly enough time playing MMOs. This is a solved problem on degradation on death/use and having repair functions or having to get new weapons.
You are literally describing Nightmare Island and this is coming from a very vocally PvP positive person.
Full loot only scares people who grinds gear running many dungeons, doing transmutations and such
People who use any trash they can find aren't affraid of losing trash at all
I am not afraid of this "nightmarish hellscape" you all are describing, it's literally just going to end up being X people sitting in stealth or in "marked" locations that hide nameplates and then just ganking random people looking to score. The Island would bring no value to PvPers or PvEers unless you put some sort of ultra rare loot as a prize or something in which case the powerful guilds will absolutely shut down whatever is happening there and sit on that spawn/boss/etc.
If that is your idea of fun (which I know it is) then you can waste hours of your day in that place but it would just end up being a bunch of stealth groups going around dropping garbage gear which would defeat any sort of meaningful PvP happening there.
Wait, now that I think about it, WE SHOULD DO IT! All the literal psychos that want this kind of content will just go constantly die on some random island in the middle of nowhere, while everyone else can just enjoy they game normally.
Wait, now that I think about it, WE SHOULD DO IT! All the literal psychos that want this kind of content will just go constantly die on some random island in the middle of nowhere, while everyone else can just enjoy they game normally.
I hope you're being sarcastic, but if somehow not, I can tell you that this ain't what actually happens...
I am not afraid of this "nightmarish hellscape" you all are describing, it's literally just going to end up being X people sitting in stealth or in "marked" locations that hide nameplates and then just ganking random people looking to score. The Island would bring no value to PvPers or PvEers unless you put some sort of ultra rare loot as a prize or something in which case the powerful guilds will absolutely shut down whatever is happening there and sit on that spawn/boss/etc.
If that is your idea of fun (which I know it is) then you can waste hours of your day in that place but it would just end up being a bunch of stealth groups going around dropping garbage gear which would defeat any sort of meaningful PvP happening there.
I didn't propose any idea in this thread
What you are describing is camping, controling the camp is what matters, the big fights will happen between the people who want to control the area, everybody else is food if you are bad
Instead of whinning about it, the players can actually join the campers or they can bring friends and dunk on the campers
People can use one or two characters as bait and then kill the campers
See? I am offering the perspective of a normal person in a full loot MMO, it's very different than a carebear perspective
Camping grounds have extense power struggles among the people interested in camping there, it's super cool and engaging, not nightmarish at all
I died in camps in the past and I also camped a lot too
Dying to camps NEVER hindered me in the game, I kept progressing regardless a few deaths
PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
Dying to camps NEVER hindered me in the game, I kept progressing regardless a few deaths
Oh, so it was actually one of those faux consequence games where no one actually ever just 'kept losing', then?
What did they do to help the bottom half of the playerbase keep up?
Carebears and bad players lie through their teeth
I never saw anyone forever dying day after day
nobody ever kept dying over and over in any game to the point of not progressing
Also, all gankers in the bushes were killed and dunked, people always gather up and kill all gankers or a fresh ganker logs on and kill the first ganker
Nothing is permanent, the gankers aren't permanently alive and kicking
The carebears aren't permanently dying and hindered
Carebears should stop lying
PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
Dying to camps NEVER hindered me in the game, I kept progressing regardless a few deaths
Oh, so it was actually one of those faux consequence games where no one actually ever just 'kept losing', then?
What did they do to help the bottom half of the playerbase keep up?
Carebears and bad players lie through their teeth
I never saw anyone forever dying day after day
nobody ever kept dying over and over in any game to the point of not progressing
Also, all gankers in the bushes were killed and dunked, people always gather up and kill all gankers or a fresh ganker logs on and kill the first ganker
Nothing is permanent, the gankers aren't permanently alive and kicking
The carebears aren't permanently dying and hindered
Carebears should stop lying
Oh, that's my bad, I was thinking too much in terms of things like data and statistics again and ignored the very obvious possibility that all the people who report being in lower percentiles and such are actually just lying in order to get an advantage over all the hardworking people who have the equitable experiences.
They really are crazy with their 'I want to win too!' and 'Can't I just get a fair chance?' and all that stuff, when they should just work harder than... all the other people saying that, to try to enjoy the game for what it is.
Dying to camps NEVER hindered me in the game, I kept progressing regardless a few deaths
Oh, so it was actually one of those faux consequence games where no one actually ever just 'kept losing', then?
What did they do to help the bottom half of the playerbase keep up?
Carebears and bad players lie through their teeth
I never saw anyone forever dying day after day
nobody ever kept dying over and over in any game to the point of not progressing
Also, all gankers in the bushes were killed and dunked, people always gather up and kill all gankers or a fresh ganker logs on and kill the first ganker
Nothing is permanent, the gankers aren't permanently alive and kicking
The carebears aren't permanently dying and hindered
Carebears should stop lying
Oh, that's my bad, I was thinking too much in terms of things like data and statistics again and ignored the very obvious possibility that all the people who report being in lower percentiles and such are actually just lying in order to get an advantage over all the hardworking people who have the equitable experiences.
They really are crazy with their 'I want to win too!' and 'Can't I just get a fair chance?' and all that stuff, when they should just work harder than... all the other people saying that, to try to enjoy the game for what it is.
Got too into the data there, I guess. Good catch.
Never get too in the data there bud. Carebear mentality. @Azherae
Dying to camps NEVER hindered me in the game, I kept progressing regardless a few deaths
Oh, so it was actually one of those faux consequence games where no one actually ever just 'kept losing', then?
What did they do to help the bottom half of the playerbase keep up?
Carebears and bad players lie through their teeth
I never saw anyone forever dying day after day
nobody ever kept dying over and over in any game to the point of not progressing
Also, all gankers in the bushes were killed and dunked, people always gather up and kill all gankers or a fresh ganker logs on and kill the first ganker
Nothing is permanent, the gankers aren't permanently alive and kicking
The carebears aren't permanently dying and hindered
Carebears should stop lying
Oh, that's my bad, I was thinking too much in terms of things like data and statistics again and ignored the very obvious possibility that all the people who report being in lower percentiles and such are actually just lying in order to get an advantage over all the hardworking people who have the equitable experiences.
They really are crazy with their 'I want to win too!' and 'Can't I just get a fair chance?' and all that stuff, when they should just work harder than... all the other people saying that, to try to enjoy the game for what it is.
Got too into the data there, I guess. Good catch.
Yes, people lie almost always, some people even open support tickets asking the items to be refunded
I mean, it's not about working hard!
It's about reaching out and making friends, the "evil" people in the bushes are actually really nice overall
Befriend what you fear
Social skills are the best skills
PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
Dying to camps NEVER hindered me in the game, I kept progressing regardless a few deaths
Oh, so it was actually one of those faux consequence games where no one actually ever just 'kept losing', then?
What did they do to help the bottom half of the playerbase keep up?
Carebears and bad players lie through their teeth
I never saw anyone forever dying day after day
nobody ever kept dying over and over in any game to the point of not progressing
Also, all gankers in the bushes were killed and dunked, people always gather up and kill all gankers or a fresh ganker logs on and kill the first ganker
Nothing is permanent, the gankers aren't permanently alive and kicking
The carebears aren't permanently dying and hindered
Carebears should stop lying
You explained stealth pvp in a nutshell and I am very familiar with it, but you only state carebears should stop lying?
There are always losers in this scenario and with 50% winning, 50% must be losing which is fine in a PvP game and I encourage such games (I play many competitive non-MMO PvP games), and no one said dying is not part of the "progression" or "fun". But this game has stated gear is a pretty important part of progression, and again I can guarantee you anyone going to this island is showing up full caveman with a level 5 sword and no armor which again... what is the point of the island in this scenario.
(I am aware this wasn't your idea but you are currently the one engaging in this discussion regarding how this is a good idea @Arya_Yeshe)
@Nova_terra yes! The carebears lie about that they couldn't do anything to avoid their deaths, the other lie is that they can't progress in the game because of dying so much and they lie about leaving the game because of it
They die to campers because they lack social skills, it has nothing to do with their character level
People always have the chance of scouting, getting intel, being aware, banding together or running away... that's the bare minimal and WITHIN EVERYBODY'S REACH
Carebears build their outcry based on lies, nobody ever was blocked from progressing for over a few minutes in PvP... but in PvE you can block people's progress for hours or maybe even the entire weekend
This happened to me in WoW a lot, but I never cried about it, I banded together with other people, brought inteland killed the gankers or ran away
PLUS: people come for the game and stay for the people, if you play as a bot playing a single player game and just grind non stop this will burn you and you will leave the game
Usually grinders leave the game because the game becomes a second job, then if they get ganked a couple times they lie about the reason why they left
PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
@Nova_terra yes! The carebears lie about that they couldn't do anything to avoid their deaths, the other lie is that they can't progress in the game because of dying so much and they lie about leaving the game because of it
They die to campers because they lack social skills, it has nothing to do with their character level
People always have the chance of scouting, getting intel, being aware, banding together or running away... that's the bare minimal and WITHIN EVERYBODY'S REACH
Carebears build their outcry based on lies, nobody ever was blocked from progressing for over a few minutes in PvP... but in PvP you can block people's progress for hours or maybe even the entire weekend
This happened to me in WoW a lot, but I never cried about it, I banded together with other people, brought inteland killed the gankers or ran away
I'd just like to say that I'm really thankful that you're on the forums as such an upstanding and outspoken representative of this demographic.
I have sometimes felt in the past that it might be hard to convince people that there were players out there like you, or that such players would have interest in Ashes or want to contribute on such a level to its potential direction.
But you prove time and time again that you are not going to back down, and will consistently express these concepts without concern for what others may think of you. I can only hope that Intrepid looks at the things you say, and how you say them, and make the right decisions for this game based on that.
Anyways I'd like to highlight the critical part of your post, so everyone remembers the methodology.
"Either make more allies until you can figure out a way to win, or run away."
nobody ever was blocked from progressing for over a few minutes in PvP... but in PvE you can block people's progress for hours or maybe even the entire weekend
PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
@Azherae I mean, I did everything in every game I played and in the long run I must say this to the entire World:
Children knew how to play 30-40 years ago, with their friends, going to their friend's houses, playing at their backyards and strees, children knew how to work together for the fun of it
Nowadays people are lost, alone at home, people are forgetting how it is working together to do something for the sake of the content. Nowadays we see people joining a lobby just to grind gold and gear
We have to look back to the past and see that children were comming together just for the content, no child was hoarding anything
PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
What I want from Intrepid is that they facilitate player driven content, so we can play as kids used to play 30 years ago, for the fun they could pull from that content
No child had in mind accumulating anything
Well, guess what, WoW came with it's grinds for gear and gold, this is unnatural if you are looking to have fun
PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
What I want from Intrepid is that they facilitate player driven content, so we can play as kids used to play 30 years ago, for the fun they could pull from that content
No child had in mind accumulating anything
Well, guess what, WoW came with it's grinds for gear and gold, this is unnatural if you are looking to have fun
Well, except all those kids that got bullied, but those were all probably just...
Well, you know.
The point is that you dust yourself off or wash the toilet-water out of your hair, go make friends with the right people, and handle your situation, right?
In every game I played I joined the "evil" people and they were in general the nicest and funniest people I met in every game
In the other hand, where I found toxicity was around people who were stressed out about min maxing, gear, gold per hour, meta play. There's were most of the drama happened
PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
What I want from Intrepid is that they facilitate player driven content, so we can play as kids used to play 30 years ago, for the fun they could pull from that content
No child had in mind accumulating anything
Well, guess what, WoW came with it's grinds for gear and gold, this is unnatural if you are looking to have fun
Well, except all those kids that got bullied, but those were all probably just...
Well, you know.
The point is that you dust yourself off or wash the toilet-water out of your hair, go make friends with the right people, and handle your situation, right?
MMOs are social games
If you play like a bot aspirant solo player, you are wasting all the potential that comes from being with people
PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
What Ashes has to do is addressing the content in proper manner
If that's done, people will figure out what to do!
The games that failed, they failed because content mismanagement
Sometimes the mechanics are there and the systems are there, but people can't wrap the content around their heads and they leave
PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
In every game I played I joined the "evil" people and they were in general the nicest and funniest people I met in every game
Have you ever stopped to think that they were nice and funny to you just because you were "evil" too?
hahaha that's funny
but it's not the case, people on Teamspeak and Discord were always vibbing, laughing, telling jokes and being polite
but in the carebearing communities it was very common having some drama and stress, specially drama
It seems very easy to you to extrapolate your experience as the experience of all in who you are interacting with. I have seen my fair share of guilds/groups/discord groups etc and you can usually pick the toxic people out of a line up and in my experience these are the people not laughing, not vibing, and not being polite. While I've also been in PvE carebear guilds that only want to chase pve progression and been surrounded with people being kind, friendly, and making an extremely welcoming space. I have also been in PvP guilds that have played to their interests and have been kind, friendly, and welcoming.
It's striking to me that all the drama and stress usually comes from people who feel they need to compensate, and in my experience that is almost exclusively found in those insecure pvpers.
Guess we can chalk this one up to different experiences in two long MMO careers.
Comments
Your suggestion has nothing to do with the economy unless most players want to participate in it, and even then the impact is pretty minimal compared to a ton of other things Intrepid could do.
It would have a lot to do with 'how people see and play the game and choose to interact with it'.
I've noticed that games with less players tend to have worse economies, I'd bet on 'Full Loot PvP' areas, even if mostly ignored, would lead to this game having less players. On the other hand, if you managed to make a bunch of people who normally like Economy games not want to play an MMO with full loot areas because of the type of player it attracts...
I guess there would be less crafters maybe, and that would reduce the gear gluts on the market.
Just two more days until G-Star... whew...
I posted a new thread about this, it's a little different than your idea
You are literally describing Nightmare Island and this is coming from a very vocally PvP positive person.
Nope, sorry, as you know, by disagreeing with this premise you have now officially become a CareBear.
I will send you your Membership Card and a free brush later.
People who use any trash they can find aren't affraid of losing trash at all
The price I pay for quality game design conversations.
I am not afraid of this "nightmarish hellscape" you all are describing, it's literally just going to end up being X people sitting in stealth or in "marked" locations that hide nameplates and then just ganking random people looking to score. The Island would bring no value to PvPers or PvEers unless you put some sort of ultra rare loot as a prize or something in which case the powerful guilds will absolutely shut down whatever is happening there and sit on that spawn/boss/etc.
If that is your idea of fun (which I know it is) then you can waste hours of your day in that place but it would just end up being a bunch of stealth groups going around dropping garbage gear which would defeat any sort of meaningful PvP happening there.
I hope you're being sarcastic, but if somehow not, I can tell you that this ain't what actually happens...
I didn't propose any idea in this thread
What you are describing is camping, controling the camp is what matters, the big fights will happen between the people who want to control the area, everybody else is food if you are bad
Instead of whinning about it, the players can actually join the campers or they can bring friends and dunk on the campers
People can use one or two characters as bait and then kill the campers
See? I am offering the perspective of a normal person in a full loot MMO, it's very different than a carebear perspective
Camping grounds have extense power struggles among the people interested in camping there, it's super cool and engaging, not nightmarish at all
I died in camps in the past and I also camped a lot too
Dying to camps NEVER hindered me in the game, I kept progressing regardless a few deaths
Oh, so it was actually one of those faux consequence games where no one actually ever just 'kept losing', then?
What did they do to help the bottom half of the playerbase keep up?
Carebears and bad players lie through their teeth
I never saw anyone forever dying day after day
nobody ever kept dying over and over in any game to the point of not progressing
Also, all gankers in the bushes were killed and dunked, people always gather up and kill all gankers or a fresh ganker logs on and kill the first ganker
Nothing is permanent, the gankers aren't permanently alive and kicking
The carebears aren't permanently dying and hindered
Carebears should stop lying
Oh, that's my bad, I was thinking too much in terms of things like data and statistics again and ignored the very obvious possibility that all the people who report being in lower percentiles and such are actually just lying in order to get an advantage over all the hardworking people who have the equitable experiences.
They really are crazy with their 'I want to win too!' and 'Can't I just get a fair chance?' and all that stuff, when they should just work harder than... all the other people saying that, to try to enjoy the game for what it is.
Got too into the data there, I guess. Good catch.
Yes, people lie almost always, some people even open support tickets asking the items to be refunded
I mean, it's not about working hard!
It's about reaching out and making friends, the "evil" people in the bushes are actually really nice overall
Befriend what you fear
Social skills are the best skills
You explained stealth pvp in a nutshell and I am very familiar with it, but you only state carebears should stop lying?
There are always losers in this scenario and with 50% winning, 50% must be losing which is fine in a PvP game and I encourage such games (I play many competitive non-MMO PvP games), and no one said dying is not part of the "progression" or "fun". But this game has stated gear is a pretty important part of progression, and again I can guarantee you anyone going to this island is showing up full caveman with a level 5 sword and no armor which again... what is the point of the island in this scenario.
(I am aware this wasn't your idea but you are currently the one engaging in this discussion regarding how this is a good idea @Arya_Yeshe)
They die to campers because they lack social skills, it has nothing to do with their character level
People always have the chance of scouting, getting intel, being aware, banding together or running away... that's the bare minimal and WITHIN EVERYBODY'S REACH
Carebears build their outcry based on lies, nobody ever was blocked from progressing for over a few minutes in PvP... but in PvE you can block people's progress for hours or maybe even the entire weekend
This happened to me in WoW a lot, but I never cried about it, I banded together with other people, brought inteland killed the gankers or ran away
PLUS: people come for the game and stay for the people, if you play as a bot playing a single player game and just grind non stop this will burn you and you will leave the game
Usually grinders leave the game because the game becomes a second job, then if they get ganked a couple times they lie about the reason why they left
I'd just like to say that I'm really thankful that you're on the forums as such an upstanding and outspoken representative of this demographic.
I have sometimes felt in the past that it might be hard to convince people that there were players out there like you, or that such players would have interest in Ashes or want to contribute on such a level to its potential direction.
But you prove time and time again that you are not going to back down, and will consistently express these concepts without concern for what others may think of you. I can only hope that Intrepid looks at the things you say, and how you say them, and make the right decisions for this game based on that.
Anyways I'd like to highlight the critical part of your post, so everyone remembers the methodology.
"Either make more allies until you can figure out a way to win, or run away."
Children knew how to play 30-40 years ago, with their friends, going to their friend's houses, playing at their backyards and strees, children knew how to work together for the fun of it
Nowadays people are lost, alone at home, people are forgetting how it is working together to do something for the sake of the content. Nowadays we see people joining a lobby just to grind gold and gear
We have to look back to the past and see that children were comming together just for the content, no child was hoarding anything
No child had in mind accumulating anything
Well, guess what, WoW came with it's grinds for gear and gold, this is unnatural if you are looking to have fun
Well, except all those kids that got bullied, but those were all probably just...
Well, you know.
The point is that you dust yourself off or wash the toilet-water out of your hair, go make friends with the right people, and handle your situation, right?
In the other hand, where I found toxicity was around people who were stressed out about min maxing, gear, gold per hour, meta play. There's were most of the drama happened
MMOs are social games
If you play like a bot aspirant solo player, you are wasting all the potential that comes from being with people
If that's done, people will figure out what to do!
The games that failed, they failed because content mismanagement
Sometimes the mechanics are there and the systems are there, but people can't wrap the content around their heads and they leave
hahaha that's funny
but it's not the case, people on Teamspeak and Discord were always vibbing, laughing, telling jokes and being polite
but in the carebearing communities it was very common having some drama and stress, specially drama
It seems very easy to you to extrapolate your experience as the experience of all in who you are interacting with. I have seen my fair share of guilds/groups/discord groups etc and you can usually pick the toxic people out of a line up and in my experience these are the people not laughing, not vibing, and not being polite. While I've also been in PvE carebear guilds that only want to chase pve progression and been surrounded with people being kind, friendly, and making an extremely welcoming space. I have also been in PvP guilds that have played to their interests and have been kind, friendly, and welcoming.
It's striking to me that all the drama and stress usually comes from people who feel they need to compensate, and in my experience that is almost exclusively found in those insecure pvpers.
Guess we can chalk this one up to different experiences in two long MMO careers.