Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Alpha Two Realms are now unlocked for Phase II testing!
For our initial launch, testing will begin on Friday, December 20, 2024, at 10 AM Pacific and continue uninterrupted until Monday, January 6, 2025, at 10 AM Pacific. After January 6th, we’ll transition to a schedule of five-day-per-week access for the remainder of Phase II.
You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
Alpha Two Realms are now unlocked for Phase II testing!
For our initial launch, testing will begin on Friday, December 20, 2024, at 10 AM Pacific and continue uninterrupted until Monday, January 6, 2025, at 10 AM Pacific. After January 6th, we’ll transition to a schedule of five-day-per-week access for the remainder of Phase II.
You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
Comments
Imo the night was much too bright.
Felt a bit unfocused, especially for a pre recorded video
I'd rather every class bring something to the table that makes them unique.
What are your thoughts regarding the active blocking shown during the November Update?
Please do not make active blocking drain a resource like stamina. The fact that you're blocking already means you're not attacking or healing. Let that be the penalty.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Cleric update and weapons demo?
Please PLEASE do not require resting to restore mana. This was a tired mechanic from EQ1 that no longer belongs in MMOs. New World's model for mana recovery/management is a great system to work from.
* I like coordinated group play being rewarded. I'm hoping the debuffs class combos create are themed to create class identity. Not in a way that in pigeon holes a class but perhaps there's a theme over many of the synergies (not all.)
Do you think party composition should amplify the meta?
* I would like a diversity and coordination of party to be rewarded. So long as the meta promotes both of these - I'm good!
What are your thoughts regarding the active blocking shown during the November Update?
* I don't mind active blocking. I would need to play it to really comment. On the face of it, I think a stamina bar to limit blocking would be good. Definitely an A2 thing to be tested out.
Share your thoughts about the hot bar, icons, mini-map, party and targeting UI shown.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Cleric update and weapons demo?
* Hot Bar/UI/etc.: I like how clean the actions bars are, but I would like to see less padding around the buttons and the party bars to be similarly 'clean.' I've always been a fan of bars with their name and buff/debuffs on it.
I would like target of target and the ability to swap between them too.
* Weapons Demo: I did not get a feeling of the significance of choice in weapon (mace and shield v. staff) specifically from the video displayed. This could be part because Steven played it the same way but I didn't notice a significant difference in how the character played as well (mana consumption, power of abilities, etc.)
* Cleric: I would've gotten more of a feel if they were put in a more prolonged engagement to see what healing feels like (think dungeon boss instead of trash pulls.) I don't have concerns on this due to the lack of depth of the gameplay provided.
*Concerns: The only two notes I have is I hope there are targeting hot keys in party for single target spells (I noticed Steven click a lot but it could just be he's a clicker.) The rest mechanic is the other, I don't mind it as it is needed to be used sparingly and has a reward attached to it (think convenience or efficiency and NOT efficacy.) If this is mitigated by support classes, class synergies, and as you level then I think it is fine (the ranager mana bar was concerning.)
*Comments: I would love to see spell animations be informed by deity choice for clerics. It is probably a tall ask but given the nature of their skill set being tied to their deity I thought I'd ask (and the impact mechanically and lore wise the deities have on this world is unique relative to other mmos.)
I like the Conviction idea presently as well. It really helps clerics be self sufficient out in the world by themselves while also creating a more engaging way to play the game for healers. I would pose that a resource accrued by healing over damaging to create additional effects on their attack abilities (cc, dot, other debuff inflicted, etc.) would be nice too. That would really make clerics more dynamic to play.
A: Looks promising... will synergy work both ways?
If you are suffering certain conditions will mobs have synergy on you? I hope so
Q: What are your thoughts regarding the active blocking shown during the November Update?
A: Good start, should have stamina and when the stamina runs out then you should be stumbled or suffer a knockback... but still block anyway
Let people block as much as they please but then suffer the consequences from overblocking when stamina runs out... then make the blocking slugish and he should be knocked around or stumble and have a dramatic struggle for his life if he insist in blocking while tired. Then only make the player go back to normal when he has at least 33-50% of his stamina back, then if he is half rested and blocks again he would have no bad effects anymore. People will be able to visually know if you are tired or not because you will be stumbling if you block, this also follows the mininal/no UI path
Q: Share your thoughts about the hotbar, icons, minimap, party and targeting UI shown.
Not sure yet, I felt a bit lost about what was going on during the fights... maybe that's a good thing?
Maybe that's better that having too much artificial UI, too much artificial UI kills the immersion sometimes.
Let people get lost, let people be ambushed, let people put their brains to work
I'm not sure about the sweet spot about this yet, maybe this will take a long time and testing to figure it out until what feels better
About the fighting itself:
This is going places!
The fight felt like a real fight on the street and I have been in quite many
How the AI goes after people is really good, how they scatter around the target is so so good!
Loved it!
Fast spaws were cool when you guys were aggroing too much stuff, that was neat, could even be more mobs
Maybe the mobs spawn rate and size could be increased when there's too much people
But there is something missing here!
There were no predicaments!!!
Regular irrelevant mobs should have some CC too even if their cooldowns are long, I saw no mob group buffs, no rally, when the Skinwalkers pounce they should do knockdowns or make the player stumble
Mana regen was too fast for the tank, for the ranger it was fine, for the cleric it was fast
So in general mana regen seemed too fast, if each of those fights costed you at least 25% of the mana then it would feel better, so you could run 4-5 spawns and get out of mana.... but you guys barely needed any rest
The graveyard should be 100% harder at night
I am not a big MMO player, but comes mainly from FPS competitive games. For me an mmo is more of a game I like to relax and maybe not focus so much on optimizing and maxing everything. Therefor the gameplay is fun if everyone are able to play. The difference between a really good player, and a lesser good should not be to great, but that does not mean that there should not be skill involved.
I therefor thought about the blockingmechanic and it would be really nice if it was more a hybrid between active block and "waterfall stats". If there is a straight up block that blocks everything with stamina, then it is a skill to block the correct attacks and a huge difference between a good and bad tank.
The otherway around is there you just go by stats and abilities. Kinda like world of warcraft and for me that gets kinda boring. I do like the active blocking mechanic but without the 100% block.
What if your abilities charge up your block stamina, and while blocking you take % less damage. This way you can rotate your abilities to keep the block up, and between classes change amount of max block stamina, or % dmg reduction to balance it.
This feels like it will make everyone able to tank by useing abilities and active block, but the ones that are interested in maxing their class can maybe pick other abilities that generates less block and get other stats instead.
Example: Tank have a big staminabar on 100 with 10 abilities that can generate stamina. When active blocking the tank blocks 70% of all incoming damage but consumes 10 stamina per hit.
Clearic have a smaller stamina bar on 50 with 3 abilities that can generate shield stamina. When active the clearic blocks 40% of all incoming damage but consumes 10 stamina per hit.
On top of this the tank and clearic still have their stats that also helps with damagereduction. Therefor everyone are able to tank, but the great players have learnt how to use the active block the best and use less staminaspells.
About the stamina
A feeling that you are not able to move because the staminabar of your shield depleted is for me a bad mechanic. I feel that the stamina for moveing/dodgeing should be different resource compared to blocking. Moveing and beeing unpredicteble is a great way to show skill, as well as dodgeing. Not beeing able to do this kind of thing because you get stunned for blocking does not feel good for me. I always want to be able to get out or dodge crowd control, and if hit by it is because you did something wrong, either by not walking/dodgeing or by not using abilities/block. Block should however still slow you down.
Ability animations and effects looked nice and not too overbearing (which was a problem in some other games). Liked that some spells held you in place, while others could be casted on the go.
Love that we'll have different mob and attack types and interactions. Helps with RP and imo it's a nice design choice.
Would prefer all blocking/running/etc stuff to be mana-based, purely because that would allow for deeper mana gameplay across all classes and would make the tank's job more than just "keep agroing and keep the shield up" (because you can't just do both w/o caring much about mana expenditure).
Important information for gameplay need to have the option to move to a location on the screen you want and size.
Please Intrepid don`t let us down. !
How do you feel about the synergy between archetypes and status conditions? Do you think party composition should amplify the meta?
I feel like this will be more of a limiting factor on group compositions than anything since there will inevitably be some gimmicky combo that is OP and will become the optimal/must have setup. Guild Wars 2 tried this and I don't think it really added anything to the gameplay. It basically just forced you to pair certain abilities with others within your own build, limiting build potential. Individual class/build strength was still superior compared to trying to incorporate a specific build to better compliment a teamates. Certain class combos will naturally have better synergy than others just based on their skill sets, such as 2 melee, 2 ranged or 2 agile classes. I would just leave it at that.
What are your thoughts regarding the active blocking shown during the November Update?
I think active block is broken the way it is. You take little damage and there's nothing to stop players from holding block indefinitely negating most damage. There needs to be a stamina bar that goes down the more you block and only regenerates slowly when not using it. Blocking hits from larger enemies/weapons should drain more stamina and knock you back slightly. The rate at which your stamina is drained should also be determined by the weapons you are using. In other words, a player using dual daggers shouldn't be able to block attacks from a giant 2 handed hammer effectively or for very long before running out of stamina. If you are hit with low stamina while blocking and it depletes your stamina, you should then be staggered leaving you animation locked for a second or 2. There should also be some benefit to blocking with a shield compared to other weapons. Maybe it drains less stamina than it would with others, allowing you to block more.
Trying to block powerful attacks from say a Dragon or a Giant should knock players far back and to the ground. Fighting against large enemies as such should force players to adapt their strategy and use movement skills or dodge instead. Perhaps there could be some tank abilities which require a shield that boost your defenses and allow you to withstand such powerful attacks for a short time? Certain offensive abilities used by players or AI could then penetrate through Block and make players react accordingly. There could also be passive traits available to certain roles that reduce the stamina drain from blocking attacks or dodging. It's important that blocking and dodging has limitations otherwise it will turn into New World combat where everyone's natural state is spamming dodge roll or holding block because there are no downsides to doing it. For that reason blocking/dodging should share the same stamina bar
Also the combat audio is very loud, especially from the sword. It sounded look it was hitting metal chains instead of zombies. Hopefully that's just placeholder, and we'll start to see different sounds depending on the enemy type such as armored, flesh, rock, elemental, etc.
Lastly, I'm not really a fan of having to sit down to restore mana quicker. Not a huge deal but I think simply being out of combat and not attacking/using abilities to rest is a better option.
I personally think it is stupid that anyone can just sit down and gain massive regeneration. I think also this is a feature where it is hard to find balance at, for example if someone's mana runs out after every 3rd mob from full and they want to play solo then they do not have much choices, do they if there is no fast regeneration, especially early on.
But if intrepid stays true to their 8 archetype synergy then there should be an archetype(probably bard or mage?) that has the capability to control the mana of the group:
- Taking mana, use it as own, or storing it to give it to someone else.
- A spell that removes everyone's mana and distribute it equally amongst members.
- If some other classes may have self-mana management, then their mana can be fed with the first example into the mana distributor class for overall group performance.
- Conversion of HP into MP. (A skill to be used only outside of danger)
Being able to just rest without usage of consumables just feels like a lazy design, It feels unengaging.
On the other hand a campfire was mentioned during the stream, I have never seen such mechanic or I am not even sure how it should function. I think it could be a possibility of the options to have a campfire that grants X times more regeneration while resting nearby it. Because got to admit, not everyone wants to have the always engaged gameplay, even in party.
Other than that it is early to talk regarding this, because we have no idea how consumables are going to work, and how early do we have access to them.
I think having many different synergistic abilities is good. Dots and buffs, all good stuff. I hope that Clerics in particular are able to do more than a 15 second buff. Or whatever the one used in the stream, it was very short and imo I hate those. Something like that should be rolled into an extra affect of another ability. Rather than it's own click every 30 sec button for a 15 sec buff
Do you think party composition should amplify the meta?
Yes, but I hope there is some over lap. So that in certain dungeons, for instance, people don't refuse to bring certain classes because they don't provide "Meta Comp".
What are your thoughts regarding the active blocking shown during the November Update?
OK. Take it or leave it, either way. In ESO I hardly ever used block and instead used dodge mostly. Playing primarily dps thief it was hard to want to Block things. Just feels wrong as a squishy to Block. If we have a dodge roll in AOC I will be happy.
Share your thoughts about the hotbar, icons, minimap, party and targeting UI shown.
All looked ok. I do hope there are options to set spell mouse over hot key heals.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Cleric update and weapons demo?
Cleric melee with staff looked a little off. Spells all looked ok, and functioned how I would expect.
The ranger class needs some serious tuning imo. It seemed like he was constantly starved for mana or whatever they use. I was thinking about main Ranger, so this was concerning.
I like the current concept as show. So long as peoples options aren't overly reliant upon a specific synergy to be effective. I do think party comp should amplify the meta as I think you should limit the number of archetypes you synergize with by default and instead have your augments control which limited classes and effects you have in your repertoire. This will allow you too build a party around particular synergies, and status effects. Balance will obviously be key here, how beneficial will these synergies be, how many tiers of particular synergies are their, we know "stagger" has t-1 Stagger, t-2 Stun, is there a t-3 or t-4? Are there any unique effect from all 8 of your party stacking the same effect simultaneously. Finally how do the tiers interact with diminishing returns. Does diminishing returns apply to all levels? I personally think they should to lower tiers, eg if you stagger a character repeatedly only stagger should be impacted by diminishing returns however if you stun a character both stun and stagger tiers should be impacted.
Personally I'm not a fan of active blocking too much, especially as it's not really a "block" its a % damage buff,
looked to be around 50% in the stream. Especially if you have no ability to block and attack. I understand this is a gameplay conceit as typically you want people to choose to attack or choose to defend, however generally speaking the whole point of a shield was to protect you so you can attack from comparative safety.
As such I would prefer ability blocks along with passive "blocking %" determined by gear. or allow you to at least basic attack while blocking if you have a shield or are duel wielding.
I the hotbar and icons someone were fairly similar so until you learn them they could be hard to distinguish, The primary thing I'd like is within the party ui to have buffs/debuffs display a countdown similar to the skill cooldown. that way you know exactly how long your buff has rather than approximating based on the progress bar circling the icon. additionally Steven states at ~19:03-19:14 "so the more convictions that I generate the more Amplified the abilities become is that right?" "that is correct" is the response, it didn't appear at the current level there to be a counter indicating the amount of conviction stacks, rather each cast appeared to simply reset the timer, Is this due to the level of the characters and as you level up the ability to stack conviction comes. if so great, just confused me as that didn't align with how it was displaying in the vid.
speed, the cleric seemed a little slow in its basic skills as well as it's casted spells, for example the chain spell has a cast bar but the effect doesn't seem to apply for a few seconds after the cast is complete, id like to see the animation sped up a bit so that after the cast timer goes away the ability triggers rather then waiting for the animation to finish. In addition the mace seemed to be noticeably slow and I think it would do well to speed that up a little bit.
The Wolves of Verra
are recruiting: https://discord.gg/Rt8G3sNYac
I lke this "giving mana" stuff and sharing the mana equally amogst all party members
I would rather have this kind of stuff than having the fast mana regens we saw in the stream
Skill battle meditation for regenerating mana during combat would be EXTREMELY NICE, but you would have to stay still, if you move then you would leave the trance. You would be able to attack and defend while having all cooldowns increased in 100%
Converting HP to MP is fine even during fights... the cooldown just have to be long enough and the casting time longer than healing spells
Bad - You have to now play a specific class & Change when your guild/group changes. No Thanks, Not a smart, good, or even respectful idea for a game.
Wouldn't be an issue if you could just swap classes at a whim would it, but that's not planned in AOC?
~Do you think party composition should amplify the meta?
No. There is a reason mmos kept away from this. Basically as above.
~What are your thoughts regarding the active blocking shown during the November Update?
Have you played PVP games with active blocking? Not fun when the blocking classes are given no punishment for abusing it.
You are going to need to offset it with a major stamina/Mana loss per hit taken so its not over abused. Have a block break animation, slow applied after broken & animation lock of full breaking animation to avoid instant attacking from the block abuser. Just to have a semblance of balance.
~Share your thoughts about the hotbar, icons, minimap, party and targeting UI shown.
I liked the small improvements, but HP bar needs to be moveable within view of the character, not all of us have good eyes or small screens.
~Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Cleric update and weapons demo?
NIl.
But I do have major concerns that a Ranger is out of Mana & needs to sit. Both of which are major issues. Large No Thanks! I want to play not sit around. If I need to sit to attack.... Why play, because you can't, you need to sit every 5mins just to keep grinding... Not Fun, Not realistic, Not playing it.
Also the Greatsword Hammer attack, Told you already, needs to impact directly in front of the player to actually be useful & actually hit mobs, Currently & go watch your video it misses & is a waste of a skill. As I told you already. Needs fixing before Alpha 2 as no one wants to play a broken class & a useless skill that doesn't hit is just that.
- I also have concerns for the attack rate of the greatsword vs the lack of attack from the ranger as shown in the video, Greatsword can AOE slice mobs & do it fast & often. Ranger can't, mostly single target focus & slower attack speed. I do hope the damage is balanced out to fix this? But the video is misleading if that is the case (it is misleading in general due to player rather than target focus - Hence the concern).
Party composition should be important but just like I said above it all depends on how useful each class is made its important that they all feel useful for a certain purpose. Like back in the day playing ragnarok online there was certain reasons to bring certain classes to different raid bosses or having a trapper in a hard dungeon to help stop the group from being overrun. The most important thing when it comes to party is that no class feels like they won’t get picked because they don’t bring anything to the table.
No one really commented much on the UI system but I will say the icons seem a bit on the small side and could be harder for some people to see especially older folks so hopefully there’s UI scaling options. I also didn’t see any icon effects taking place when you placed the AOE heal on the floor it would be smart to have an indicator of active healing buffs or even an “incoming heal” when two healers target the same person. Being a healer in other games I always liked having that extra information. Another thing that I was going to comment was I see the one active Skill bar it would be a smart idea to have an items bar too or even just allow people to add more bar’s I always liked the ability to have my potions bar or items which I could swap out on a different bar then the one where I use skills to avoid hitting my switch weapon key when I’m trying to hit 4 an heal someone.
The blocking system seems like a cool idea but I’m sure there’s going to be people who are skeptical about it. There’s also a lot of factors that effect a blocking system such as lag of client. The skill part of it does though how ever give ashes of creation a feel in PvP cause if you have the ability to block certain attacks and take a reduction of damage it provides that it’s not just gear based its skill based. It would be possible to do a stamina system for block but I think would be better to have a more reactive system to build up that player skill such as having a limited window to execute a block and reward system based on how successful a block is such as if you block an ability just before it happens that it blocks a larger amount of damage. But if you block late you take more damage and also have potential to have block broken or get staggered out of your block for a couple seconds that would give that real feel of missing a block. If you do that type of system as well it would also be a thing to add a parry option too for dual wielders.
Conviction mechanic I noticed the cleric needing to take aggro in order to gain conviction and the problem I see with that is it causing threat issues especially in boss fights. Not sure if you’re building your system around the threat generated but if you’ve ever pulled threat in a boss fight off the tanks and had the big dragon come step on you one shot you then run back to the tank its not much fun. Just like when you’re the healer pulling threat off your tank to build stacks it usually gets you kicked from a party. I think its better to just have it as an affect of having used certain damaging abilities against monsters you could make it based off of damaging a monster with a specific attribute such as attacking an undead monster with a holy spell. But requiring the need to take aggro to gain stacks is a bad method of generation.
I noticed that during the change to night the monsters didn’t really change much and I’m hoping that night will affect things like that such as stronger night zombies and such or different monsters to add to the feeling that things change and farming monsters’ change. It would have been cool to see instead of just zombies at night skeleton warriors of different types and such coming out of the graves too. But I’m sure this is just early in the game play.
I like the idea of doing different monster weaknesses and strength’s such as how dark or zombie is weak to holy and how fire would be weak to water and so on. I would also be considering having abilities based on the enchanting of weapons to certain elements in this case either by way of class abilities such as having a sage or alchemist that could provide temporary buffs of elements such as water, fire, earth but you could include a holy weapon buff for priests, and nature for classes that do nature etc. that way you can add extra utility but if you don’t prefer that could then look at the ability to make weapons certain element through combining different element essences and having it as a process of crafting the weapon. I look back at Ragnarok Online when it comes to elements there where certain bosses that had different elemental attributes and weaknesses like fire and you could bring ice(water) weapons to do increased damage but regular damage would still have an effect. Archers would bring ice enchanted arrows. It adds to the level of figuring out boss fights because some bosses could enchant themselves with a particular element during the fight to change resistance. One that could do that was a undead monster that would cast holy armor on itself for a duration to make it immune to holy damage and everyone would have to either stop attacking and wait for the buff to run out or switch to dark elemental skills by having the other weapon or arrows in inventory because if you attacked with holy it would then heal the monster. Most games don’t really ever go the route of the weaknesses they have it as a side thought but never utilize it because it can be a lot of extra work. But honestly I love systems like that because it adds to the figuring out how to fight boss battles aren’t just about going in there and standing in place and doing enough damage to clear it can be about multi-layer strategy.
College Lessons
The healing moves looked great and I'm sure they feel great for that whack a mole type feel that healers look for. I feel though that a cleric shouldn't be needed for just a small group of enemies like that. In the open world, I feel a cleric should be more of a benefit than a requirement to combat. They should only be needed for things like sieges, dungeon, raids, etc. I cannot wait to see how clerics are during normal gameplay, it would be really fun to play a self sustaining class while wondering the world by myself sometimes.
However this is assuming that potions and food won't be the norm for healing outside of having a cleric which I'm sure it will be according to info from past streams.
The synergies that can be done between classes is amazing! Classes should 100% be able to synergize with each other and be able to capitalize on the moves of their teammates. It makes multiplayer combat feel so much more rewarding. That rush of dopamine you get when you and your friend just combined your strongest moves into a ultimate attack just feels so great and I think the team should definitely keep the design and idea. It would be a shame to lose the ability to work together in a rewarding way. I do feel however that it should be less effective in PVP. If two people just synergize moves on you, stunning and inflicting a bunch of status effects, it would feel highly annoying and seem like you can't do anything. It should still be a thing, just muted a bit.
About the active blocking... I love the idea of it, and seeing it in gameplay was really awesome. If its not planned already, I feel like certain weapons should be more effective at blocking than others (e.g twohanded weapons better than onehanded and shield better than all.) If possible, blocking should be even more effective for tanks or they should have a skill path for it. This would make other classes feel a bit less effective with blocking, but in my view it would make sense since well.. they're a tank.
One more thing about the cleric, but this goes for other classes as well..
I have played one game where a few magic skills could be aimed from a player pov or you could make the camera follow the aiming area to better target AOE skills. Obviously it would be insane to be able to target very far so there should be a limit to the distance you can take the camera, but the fallback to this precise targeting is that you cannot see everything going on around your character. If something like this could be implemented that would be awesome. I gotta say its sad I have only seen this in one game.
We love and support all of you and thank you so much for your hard work!
Synergy : Having synergy between archetypes and status condition is good, it makes skill ceiling higher and reinforce the purpose to play in group, so it could be nice to see more next stream about this mechanic
Party composition : It definitly amplify the meta, but that's one of the many aspect in theorycrafting, also being meta doesn't necessary mean that it's "the best way", it will depends on players skills etc.
Active Blocking : To be honest I didn't see the active blocking, I might rewatch the stream
UI : The UI is great, the only thing I would change is make the map more transparent / being able to turn off the mini map.
Resting with sit emote : I think it's great to have this, it gives a downtime in dungeon like we use to have in old MMO, so you can't rush through the content. It gives you a break to think and also to food up / buff up again.
Environment : The game looks great despite the poop stream quality of twitch. (because of the bitrate I guess)
Combat : It looks like you finally found your way for combat, I like how hybrid it is between being static and being able to move for certain weapon, it reinforce the weight aspect of the weapon.
In my opinion, dagger, wands, one hand weapon, shouldn't be really forced to be static to attack, like you did on the dagger, but for two handed weapon, being static but not really like you did (the sort of little dash the greatsword is doing while attacking) looks good.
Cleric : Looks like there is interesting mechanics like with "conviction" as Steven said, it makes healing interesting and not just a stupid class that need to spam one key.
It's good and I like it
In principle, I think that all classes should have a distinctive flavor that rewards certain gameplay styles. "The meta" just describes the most desirable or most powerful style of gameplay that exists. But the advantage of an MMO is that many different gameplay styles can exist and be rewarded.
To use a simple example, Everquest 1 veterans will recall the power of a class called the Enchanter. For the uninitiated, the best things this class was known for was crowd control and support buffs. It would dramatically increase the mana regeneration of other classes, and it could essentially nullify enemies as long as their teammates were careful not to hit that enemy once it was crowd controlled. So this class hugely augmented healer and mage classes, letting them cast way more spells, and it helped keep fights under control by allowing players to pull groups of monsters, crowd control the majority of them, and focus fire them down one by one. This class was very "meta", or very desirable, for these reasons.
However, what if we had a group composition of non-mana using classes that a strong enough a tank and large enough damage to quickly AoE down monsters before they could kill the tank? In such a context, the Enchanter would be useless for that group.
Further, conceive of a group encounter where monsters actually grew stronger the longer they went undamaged. Crowd controlling them in this context would actually be very bad, because although you would temporarily save your group from having to contend with that monster, the longer it went unharmed, the stronger it would become. In this context, an Enchanter would severely complicate the fight, and the sort of tactics the class rewards would be ineffectual.
As another example, Dark Age of Camelot was a game with a huge list of classes. One of them was known as the Hibernian Animist. The Animist was very very at basically one thing; placing down plant-themed "turrets" that would apply a certain effect on either friendly or enemy targets in their radius. The simple ones just shot at enemies, applying direct damage. The more complex ones acted as mini healers, and would slowly heal allies that were nearby. This created a gameplay loop for the Animist where they were the "campers" of the game. They would set up these turrets in an area, and if an enemy got too close, he would be shot to pieces by their turrets.
In PvE, this meant this class was crazy good for farming certain spots for reasons that are likely self evident. Monsters spawn, turrets shoot, players loot. In PvP, this meant that Animists could secure areas in ways that other players and classes couldn't. Their turrets meant that if enemies caught Animists off guard and engaged before he could set his turrets up, he was at a huge disadvantage. But if the Animist had time to put his turrets in place, him and his team had a strong zone of control that would prevent casual enemy intrusion. This was an advantage that simply no other class offered. In some circumstances, it was really awesome. In other circumstances, it really sucked.
What I am trying to drive at here is that I don't particularly care about "the meta," or the placement of classes within that meta, as long as the nature of the gameplay can reward multiple sorts of strategies and tactics to achieve the ultimate end; dead monsters and phat loot. People will always latch onto what is simple and easy, but as long as the different classes are good at what they do, and the design of the gameplay is such that different strategies can still work, you'll wind up with a fun game. I would much rather have a sort of game where a Fighter might suck in some dungeons where a Mage is great to have, and vice versa for other dungeons, because the nature of their gameplay is different enough that their class advantages and weaknesses simply cannot be ignored.
The polar opposite is Final Fantasy 14, where all classes of a given archetype (melee dps, tanks, healers especially, etc) are strongly homogenized. They all have quirks and minute differences, but you'll never care if you have a White Mage instead of a Astrologian as a healer in any dungeon. It simply doesn't matter because they all functionally do the same thing and are interchangeable.
That's what I want to avoid.
I don't grasp the question, but what I want is for classes that feel meaningfully unique, even if that uniqueness means that some content does not require their particular skill set. So long as there is always content that *will* require their particular skill set, this will not be a problem.
As presented, the active blocking mechanic appeared to be something you could do functionally forever. So why would the front line of an encounter not just hold down block to take hugely reduced damage while his teammates deals damage? Such a system clearly results in uninteractive, braindead gameplay.
I would much prefer a stamina based system that acted as a pooled resource that Blocking and Dashing drew from. Every time you Block, you drain stamina the longer you block, and each individual hit drains stamina yet further, regardless of the actual amount of damage blocked, and that the size of the stamina pool is such that you cannot Block more than a couple of attacks at a time. Since Blocking "small" hits will drain the same amount as "big" hits, a player is rewarded for reserving his Block for those "big" hits. A good Tank would thereby express skill through carefully blocking only the "big" hits and the result would be a more survivable player.
As-is it sucks, introduce a Stamina system where Dash and Block draw upon it and make it so you can suck at Blocking if you're bad at timing it.
Perfect knowledge of orientation and navigation means that players cannot realistically ever get lost, and I think that's a shame. One of my most vivid and best memories in an MMO was in Everquest 1 where I got lost and murdered in Kithicor Forest because I failed to navigate the zone properly. Part of why themepark content got so popular is that developers seem reluctant to make a broader overworld that engages a player's brain, and minimaps are part of this problem. Instead of challenging a player to maintain their bearings so as to set out and arrive at their destination, people would rather press M and auto walk in a given direction, or better yet queue up for Party Finder and be delivered directly to their destination.
I am not trying to say that I would rather players be set adrift in zones with no means of orienting themselves, but what I want to see is ingame means of orientation and navigation rather than UI elements that provide Perfect Knowledge. Instead of a "minimap" that displays your exact position in relation to the zone around you, I would rather organic methods of orienteering be required, such as through landmarks, roads, signage, and indeed one of the interesting systems portrayed in this very stream, constellations. Imagine a constellation that functioned as a Big Dipper with its North Star equivalent that any player gazing at a night time sky could use to help him navigate. That would be fucking awesome and a million times more engaging than opening a minimap.
Don't care about the details of the UI at present, but I hate minimaps in MMOs. Part of how to get an engaging overworld experience (IE the space that exists between hubs such as towns and content such as dungeons) is to make it so people can get lost if they don't stop alt tabbing to tiktok or youtube. Constellations should be viewed as a unique opportunity to provide softer ingame means of orienteering, in the same vein as highly visible landmarks, or signs along roadways. This is preferable to systems that provide perfect knowledge, such as minimaps, because it forces a player to use their brain, which will keep them engaged with the game they are playing.
Thematically, I would like to see Cleric be good at reactive healing and Bard be good at preemptive healing. By reactive, I primarily mean Direct Healing like what we saw in the gameplay footage. By preemptive, I mean things such as short-duration damage reduction buffs, Healing over Time effects, and enemy damage debuffs. Things that are great if you've been using them ahead of time, but won't help you when you go "oh shit, I'm almost dead."
One of the best examples of the preemptive vs reactive healing methods was expressed in Guild Wars 1 in the player class called the Monk. Each player was a combination of two classes, one of them being your Primary class and the other being your Secondary class. Each class provided 3 Attributes, plus an extra Attribute if it was your Primary class. Every skill in the game fell under one of those Attributes, and as you leveled that Attribute up, those skills got better. Two of the Monk's Attributes were called Healing Prayers and Protection Prayers. Healing Prayers had standard 'reactive healing' skills; teammates lost hp, so you casted a spell from Healer Prayers to restore that HP. Protection Prayers was very interesting though; it had a variety of preemptive healing tools that basically just stopped players from taking damage in the first place.
Though the wiki is coached in gamist terms that may not be immediately grasped by someone unfamiliar with the game, it does provide an overview of many of the skills in that game that I feel should be used as inspiration for anyone interested in broadening the scope of gameplay within the "healer" archetype. I have linked it below if the reader has such interest.
https://guildwars.fandom.com/wiki/Protection_Prayers
Imagine a Bard who sung a song that applied a steady Healing over Time effect on his whole group, significant enough to allow them to do group content without a Cleric so long as they had enough tanky people who could "tap out" and let their allies "tap in" while they focused on dealing damage and recovering. Imagine a Bard who could apply short-lived damage reduction when he sees an ally about to get shit on by a big attack, saving a tank who may have otherwise gone down. Imagine a Bard who debuffs his enemies with dirges, letting his team survive their attacks longer. That's the sort of gameplay I'd like to see a Bard be able to achieve.
I hope Steven considers broadening "healer gameplay," currently monopolized by Cleric, to include Bard. I think this can be achieved in a fun and thematic way by allowing Bard to be a "proactive healer" and for Cleric to be the "reactive healer." I believe there is room in the supportsphere for both styles and that the unique strengths of proactive healing would allow for deeper and more interesting sorts of party compositions.
As a general note, I'd like to say that I'm really pleased with the approximate level of downtime and the /sit mechanic seen so far. I feel that downtime during an adventure is very important to prompting socialization in these sorts of games. It provides for a sort of empty space for natural conversation to fill, whether it be casual socialization, discussion of tactics, or what have you.
https://twitch.tv/videos/1668370022
If you pay attention to time stamp 01:36:25 on the Dec 2 update vid currently on the AoC twitch channel, it takes approximately 35 seconds from the time Keenan sits down at about 1/5th mana to regenerate to full mana. I would honestly like it to be just a bit slower than that, because there is likely going to be downtime reducing mechanics probably by way of (as Steven mentioned in the same video) Cleric being able to help regenerate mana, or maybe items that provide quicker regeneration, but that half minute to full minute ball park is just about perfect as a base line, because it provides enough time for two total strangers to actually type out a meaningful couple of lines out ingame. That is key to helping socialization in these sorts of games, actually giving players time to talk in between doing content.
I like the current direction with downtime. I view downtime in between stressful encounters (where the players fight hard enough to get low on hp/mana) to being fundamental to getting players to interact socially, because it gives them time to talk and interact ingame, often about the content they are attempting, tactics, or even casual chitchat. I hope the downtime does not get much lower than what it is right now, after any other downtime reduction mechanics are added (such as bedding, campfires, or buffs)
Class synergy is great! I liked how the unique classes benefited each other as a group. It is also nice to hear that different encounters and environments would benefit from certain combinations and that certain classes may find increased difficulty. This would change up meta formations depending on the task at hand.
I like the thought of being in dungeons/raids and actually having to stop before a boss to sit and eat, and fill up everything.. Now-a-days it feels like you just rush everything, and there's no setup or anything. I think it's little breaks like these that really help break up the feeling of just doing 1 thing the whole time, and give you a breather. Or time to look at your inventory, manage things, etc
Downtime provides an empty space for natural socialization to fill. It gives people the chance to talk rather than just mashing through content. A good example of the polar opposite is FF14 dungeons. There is almost no socialization in party finder, and one of the contributing factors to that is the lack of any downtime. The dungeons are devised in such a way that a tank can wall-to-wall pull absolutely all the monsters in an area, then the party can AoE them down, and if the players are using their mechanics properly as soon as those monsters are dead its off to the next batch, culminating in a boss that has its own mechanics and thus makes it difficult or impossible to actually type out anything. You just realistically don't have time to socialize.
Stamnia
I don't think you need to make an energy usage for every kind of abilty/action. just stick to health and mana. people are saying use stamina for blocking, WHY? Just have everyone use mana for any type of action/abilty/dodge/roll/block regardless of class. That way resting (sitting down) is actually a usefull game mechanic that every class will use; not just the casters, which prevents people from being hostile towards casters who don't have mana potions. Because when we're all in a dugeon and need to sit down to recover, no one is just waiting on the casters and wanting to move on ahead while they sit to recover mana, (all have skin in the game)
ACTIVE BLOCKING
I understand you're trying to make a hybrid system and in order to do that active blocking seems like a perfect fit. However, I think there should be the choice b/w putting skill/stat points into (active blocking/shield) and for the tab target people just putting skill/stat points in the attribute block/parry/dodge. That way tanks can decide how they want to build their playstyle around and action combat people will feel like they are getting some action-y stuff. You can figure out the data and numbers on block mitigation for active and tab stat attribution based upon how they distribute the points when they level up. Also this helps the mages/summoners who don't want to have to active block with their orb/spellbook, (looks and feels weird). And if a caster is active blocking and they have an orb as their weapon etc. instead of holding up a shield like a tank, they could create a mana zone/bubble/barrier that comsumes mana when damaged; same goes for tank, when their shield is struck because mana is the global energy source.
Cleric
As far as the cleric goes, I am at a lost as to what type of class this is. Maybe I been spoiled with game like wow and ff14 but I thought healers (besides holy paladin) were squishy cloth users. What was shown was some in-your-face, running b/w the mobs, aggrowing, not staying in the back healing, bulky/tanky, physical class, limited healing spells, (2) heals tossed in. I hope you guys make a solid healing class that wears robes, scales off of wisdom/intellect, has an aray of healings spells/when ally is attacked spells that trigger heals. Not using a mace and shield but staff/book/cross/secptor etc. As a heal main I am sorry but I was disappointed if this is the type of healer I have to play as, my only saving grace is i'm hoping if I go cleric/cleric, the high priest is a comeplete 180
A wizard is never late, he arrives precisely when he means to.
In d&d clerics always wear heavy armor + shield. Cloth healer is more a wow invention.
A) Excellent, i love these synergistic abilities. Good on their own, stronger together. I would however love more clarity during the combat of applied status effects i can take advantage of. Through text or skill icons lighting up. Either/or.
Q) Do you think party composition should amplify the meta?
A) Yes, but there should be as many different classes in the "meta party" as possible. Everyone working in tandem with their synergies to be a serious threat. Then the meta leans more to who can do teamwork the best, instead of who can stack the most dmging classes. Stacking dmg classes will probably still be a very effective way since it's easier, but there will be a teamwork alternative for better dmg.
Q) What are your thoughts regarding the active blocking shown during the November Update?
A) There was talk about stamina consumption upon blocking damage. If running out of stamina while blocking damage holds a penalty, i would love for there to be a system that prevents instant bursting of your stamina bar just because you happened to block 10 attacks simultaneously. Getting hit in quick succession and then being drained of your stamina is fine.
If you just lower your shield when you're out, then there shouldn't be a system like that in my opinion.
I would also love a parry mechanic on the shield that if you block you parry attacks in a 0.5-1s window. Perhaps you get this ability by simply using a sword and board over a 2 handed, or you have to spec into this yourself in the shield tree as a skill
Q) Share your thoughts about the hotbar, icons, minimap, party and targeting UI shown.
I like the minimalistic approach of the UI. The info is on there without unnecessary bulk or space being taken up. I hope to be able to add a as many hotbars as i'd like, but i'd also like for the main hotbar to be cyclable with a hotkey. IE i press shift + 2 and the bar swaps to "main hotbar 2" and if i press shift + 1 again i swaps back to "main hotbar 1". Stevens slotted skills are 0-9 on his hotbar, is it misaligned or is it that unused slots are fully transparent? If so, i like that they're transparent when unused! Timers and clock animation on top of the skills to represent the cooldown left is nice. I also like that enemies show up on the minimap as soon as they're aggro'd. Enemy and ally targeting was a bit unclear at times with just the targeting circle and "> <'s" symbols on the nametags. Perhaps a setting where you can add a glow to the nametag and "> <'s" symbols?
Q) Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Cleric update and weapons demo?
A) Probably just a polish thing but i'd like for the skill beams/flashes of light to follow their target. Cleansing wave was cast and the beam remains stationary mid-air unconnected because the caster and target moved. Same goes for the burst heal. I'd love for the cleric to also be able to place heals in the world for a period of time. Sort of like a magical medkit waiting to be walked onto and collected when the time is right. Or essentially a different "spec" of healer. A healer based around preventing damage through giving shields beforehand, damage mitigation buffs, heals over time or having to be more positionally aware to use the heals more effectively, like a beam going through everything in a line.
For the mace weapon, i hope they also get their own damage type. A blunt type. Better used against armored targets perhaps?
I would also love for the cleric to be able to infuse the weapons with holy magic for a period of time so it does holy damage, which in turn is better against undead
I dunno if it's changed in the last six months since I last looked into the system at all, but that's basically how it worked last I checked, any class can wear any armor and wield any weapon, and each armor and weapon affords different advantages.
I agree that it's less iconic than what most people prefer, but I enjoy that sort of character building freedom personally.
I really like this is it encourages co-operation and communication between players.
Do you think party composition should amplify the meta?
I believe it should but not to the point that it excludes certain classes
What are your thoughts regarding the active blocking shown during the November Update?
This was an interesting addition and while not ground breaking, it looks well implemented in the early stages.
Share your thoughts about the hotbar, icons, minimap, party and targeting UI shown.
These looked great, the mini map did blend together for me however and the elements looked very similar.
Have convictions and buff timers start with a full reticule of white and have them tick down counter clock wise to zero as currently I felt it looked odd to see the durations almost counting up (clockwise)
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Cleric update and weapons demo
Was interesting to see the more reactive heals of the Cleric and it has certainly improved since Alpha 1. I would like to see more Heal Over Time, Hybrid (Healing through Damage like the RIFT Chloromancer) and Damage Mitigation/Healing via Shields playstyles shown off and included as currently this seems to be a standard reactive healer found in most MMOs.
Having a Healer that isn't just reactive healing e.g. you see the target is low in health and click a button would be great to me.
Being able to spec for different playstyles would be great imo e.g.
Healing through damage, healing through positioning, healing through shields and damage mitigation etc
Just like a Mage can spec into fire, frost, arcane etc. We saw some elements of this in the stream but it would be nice to see these as valid playstyles in their own right.
Synergies are great since they provide complexity to the combat system. Of course, they will need to be well balance in order to not be frustrating. A solution:
-There might be buffs, coming from supports/healer archetypes, that prevent or remove status conditions.
Skill Example: Charge! Bard plays a song that makes N(umber) allies immune to crowd control skills for N seconds.
I want to make clear that buffs and debuffs/conditions should be something that provide identity to the different archetypes, so please avoid the “Everyone can do everything” idea that current MMORPGS are giving us these days.
Do you think party composition should amplify the meta?
Of course. Ashes of Creation is mostly a PvP game, and in my experience having a meta comp that rules them all, ends up being boring; one group is unbeatable because they are the best using the most OP meta composition. Something like “Composition A wins to composition B, but loses to composition C; B loses to A, but wins to C; C wins to A, but loses to B” is always more interesting.
As in the previous question, I want to clarify something: player skill factor must be decisive too. So, the perfect mix between Skill and Comp is the key.
What are your thoughts regarding the active blocking shown during the November Update?
I don’t like Active Blocking at all, not in all classes. I can see Tank having an active block mechanic, but no one else.
In order to have PERSONAL DAMAGE MITIGATION, I prefer GW2 endurance system: you have 2 dodges, at 100 stamina (50 each), that evade every enemy skill. And to counter dodges, there are some status conditions (immobilize or stun) that prevent you for dodging, or others that decrease the endurance regeneration (weakness).
This dodge system feels really good; it creates a dynamic and skillful combat system.
You can also add some buffs or AoE that block attacks.
Skill example: Protecting Circle. Tank creates a circle that last for 10 second. This protecting circle pulses a buff that blocks ONE upcoming attack every 2 seconds. Protecting circle buff do not stack.
Protecting ircle might be upgraded, through skill tree, to reduce N% of damage for its full duration.
Share your thoughts about the hotbar, icons, minimap, party and targeting UI shown.
In my opinion, UI was clean and almost perfect. The only thing I would add is some frames for minimap and hotbar, that make these different from other games.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Cleric update and weapons demo?
Class unique resources and the way these amplify skill’s performance was the biggest surprise for me. Sound effects were really good as well, and the night sky and fog were superb.
My biggest concerns are tied to blocking, in which I already gave my opinion, and character animations. The cleric way of walk and some monster attacks need work. But you already said that animations are something you are working on.
Keep up the good job!
Another idea is that there are skills with a slight delay (like 0,5 sec) you can pre-cast (on the right time) to get an extra effect. For example if someone will use fear, that the healers can use a group skill to debuff it, but it's all about timing!
I disliked the high respawn rates because 1) it feels dissapointing to find all your work undone so quickly on the way back out, 2) there is no feeling of leaving your mark on an area for others to note. I say this with the exception of Zombies coming out of the ground in response to players moving over them - they can do that all day, I loved it! I hope you find lots of similarly inventive ways to spawn other mob types, other than POP, the shop keeper appears, as if my magic.
The Zombie AI pathing seemed excellent - one even walked all the way around the fence to get out and attack.
The NPC name tags seemed a bit large, and I missed seeing hitpoints, but I understand this can all the toggled.
I like active blocking but think the cost should be high enough that it is used sparingly when needed most. It would be worth considering a third resource, like GW2 stamina, if all characters can active block.
The toolbar icons were very clear and looked fantastic.
The party UI looked pretty standard, but clear.
I really like synergy between classes so that they create 'combos' resulting in new affects, ie the stagger becoming a stun in the stream. Implementing this synergy using AOE fields is excellent and pretty much bread and butter from GW2. But what about positioning, deployable objects, auras, lines of affect, small portals, and so on?
I do not like a great number of buffs and debuffs because when there are more than 5 you spend a lot of time squinting at rows of icons on the UI instead of looking at the combat. I would rather see the Cleric's self buff (Conviction) be shown on the character as a holy glow around their hands or head (or something). Or perhaps add icons on the circle around the feet of a selected character to make the graphics there informative. Of course you can't have too many of these either.
I like the way the Cleric had the Fighter 'tab targeted' for quick heals but could still use 'action combat' to melee hit the Zombies from behind. I really liked the animated green circle at the feet of the friendly target.
The Greatsword looked a little oversized for my tastes, and that repetitive medallic clank sound when spinning would get on my nerves after a while. Can there be some toned down variation here? Or a softer sound if hitting meaty mobs?
The Cleric chains were excellent and had meaning. But the initial chain circle on the edge of the AOE was always horizonal and did not hug the terrain, so it looked silly or was not visible at all.
I was overjoyed at the night-time lighting levels and ambiance. Very good for gameplay and still obviously night. It helps, from a realism perspective, that there are many celestial light sources.
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I like it. It adds more depth to the combat and the game overall. Though you shouldn't overdo it. Maybe 1-2 of such abilities per class, but no more than that. Otherwise, there's a risk that certain classes will require you to run other classes for synergy, especially if those synergies are strong.
Do you think party composition should amplify the meta?
Yes, to an extent. It's always going to happen, people will find certain compositions that work the best for whatever content they're trying to do. The issue becomes when it actually becomes THE meta. At that point you run the risk of it being the only "viable" way to do content (even when it's not).
What are your thoughts regarding the active blocking shown during the November Update?
I'm unsure. I'd much rather prefer having stats and passive/active abilities that either reduce damage taken, increase resistances to certain damage types, increase chance to block and dodge attacks, etc.
Active blocking could also be utilized, but it should be used very situationally, and definitely not most of the time you spend in combat. Something like a 0.5 - 1.0 seconds long block, after which the active blocking ends, and is put on a "cooldown" of sorts (either by the stamina bar being fully drained, or by having a set cooldown). That way, it's used situationally, when you want to block stronger abilities.
It should be available for most weapons (weapons like wands, daggers, bows, etc. definitely shouldn't have it), but certain weapons (shields) should have an option to spec into blocking a bit further, to either increase the block duration, decrease the cooldown, or increase dmg blocked, etc.
Edit: Also certain abilities should definitely be unblockable. Mostly stuff like AoEs, DoTs, etc.
Share your thoughts about the hotbar, icons, minimap, party and targeting UI shown.
I like it so far. I have no strong opinions on how it could be changed, or whether you've completely nailed it. I'll leave that for the others to comment on.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Cleric update and weapons demo?
Not too much to comment on, we've yet to see how other abilities, and the talent trees work. I just hope there aren't too much ground AoEs, and "combo fields" like in GW2.