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Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest news on Alpha Two.
Check out general Announcements here to see the latest news on Ashes of Creation & Intrepid Studios.
To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
I like it. It adds more depth to the combat and the game overall. Though you shouldn't overdo it. Maybe 1-2 of such abilities per class, but no more than that. Otherwise, there's a risk that certain classes will require you to run other classes for synergy, especially if those synergies are strong.
Do you think party composition should amplify the meta?
Yes, to an extent. It's always going to happen, people will find certain compositions that work the best for whatever content they're trying to do. The issue becomes when it actually becomes THE meta. At that point you run the risk of it being the only "viable" way to do content (even when it's not).
What are your thoughts regarding the active blocking shown during the November Update?
I'm unsure. I'd much rather prefer having stats and passive/active abilities that either reduce damage taken, increase resistances to certain damage types, increase chance to block and dodge attacks, etc.
Active blocking could also be utilized, but it should be used very situationally, and definitely not most of the time you spend in combat. Something like a 0.5 - 1.0 seconds long block, after which the active blocking ends, and is put on a "cooldown" of sorts (either by the stamina bar being fully drained, or by having a set cooldown). That way, it's used situationally, when you want to block stronger abilities.
It should be available for most weapons (weapons like wands, daggers, bows, etc. definitely shouldn't have it), but certain weapons (shields) should have an option to spec into blocking a bit further, to either increase the block duration, decrease the cooldown, or increase dmg blocked, etc.
Edit: Also certain abilities should definitely be unblockable. Mostly stuff like AoEs, DoTs, etc.
Share your thoughts about the hotbar, icons, minimap, party and targeting UI shown.
I like it so far. I have no strong opinions on how it could be changed, or whether you've completely nailed it. I'll leave that for the others to comment on.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Cleric update and weapons demo?
Not too much to comment on, we've yet to see how other abilities, and the talent trees work. I just hope there aren't too much ground AoEs, and "combo fields" like in GW2.
the giant hammer skill could be fighter with cleric subclass though :P
Classes should definitely have cc-chains they can do together - however an invidual should have be able to combo off of his own cc sufficiently aswell and it should be somewhat balanced.
Do you think party composition should amplify the meta?
One of the big determining factors of how good a raid is, is how the leaders make their parties - party composition is important, but please avoid anything that can cause gatekeeping of classes.
What are your thoughts regarding the active blocking shown during the November Update?
Active blocking is brilliant, because you need to actually be situationally aware in order to pull it off and know when to drop your shield to heal or deal damage.
Share your thoughts about the hotbar, icons, minimap, party and targeting UI shown.
I think you're able to customize it later, but personally i think the targetting bar should be a bit bigger by default, especially if it'll show buffs and debuffs.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Cleric update and weapons demo?
I'm a REALLY BIG fan of the VFX and animations of cleric - makes me nostalgic of ArcheAge aswell as one feels a lot like antithesis. I was hoping there would be more light-based spells and I'm really glad to see more!
The few skills that were shown seemed very smooth to play with and I like the Conviction system as it will reward good decision-making based on what skills you spend it on.
One thing that needs working on is the Chain Heal-Ability, as the ends just kind of look cut off, but I'm sure that'll get addressed c:
Synergy and stuff like that is fine, but please don't add stagger that makes the character flinch and unable to use abilities. Stuns and silences and such that have a DR is completely fine, but having stagger on top of stuns and everything else is too much and is gonna feel like being stunlocked 24/7
Steven said stagger works both in pve & pvp and I quote ''creature may not use abilities, they can do basic attack functions and cast spells if they had access to spells, but their physical abilities would be muted or be inaccessible during the stagger effect''
this is gonna make melee essentially useless and lead to pvp gameplay ''who can pull off an ability first and start the stagger cc combo into stun and more stagger''
Do you think party composition should amplify the meta?
not sure on this
What are your thoughts regarding the active blocking shown during the November Update?
i like active block
Share your thoughts about the hotbar, icons, minimap, party and targeting UI shown.
barebones needs work
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Cleric update and weapons demo?
don't add stagger
I definitely think that status conditions can layer and stack between different characters archetypes. I very much enjoy working together with my team to lay down areas of effect on top of each other at the right time. When done correctly, the time the effects last should be stacked.
Do you think party composition should amplify the meta?
Only to a certain extent, and I agree with a previous post that said "it shouldn't force players" into only selecting certain roles. I don't want to be excluded from any fight because I don't have abilities my team needs. Maybe it would be harder for me to use the same ability, or have longer cooldowns or some other type of risk.
What are your thoughts regarding the active blocking shown during the November Update?
I really like the feature. I feel all archetypes should support active blocking, with obvious differences in effectiveness based on shield or no shield, and if it's the main with your class. It supports my previous answer that "I don't want to be excluded" from participating, but I don't mind being less effective.
Share your thoughts about the hotbar, icons, minimap, party and targeting UI shown.
I liked how the UI was displayed in the video, and I also like that you can customize the layout. I would like to see more information about the targeting UI, and dig a little bit deeper into that so I can have better feedback. When I play other games, I would like to click the character model I want to target or their status bar in my party window - it really depends on the moment. It would be great if I can do both or can switch to a different UI preset on the fly if I need to.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Cleric update and weapons demo?
I really like the sitting animation, and that mana is regenerated (faster) if you do sit. I think it brings those roleplaying/meta moments to life. I was really excited to see the Cleric skill that healed the player when targeted on the enemy - I think I would use that skill quite often if I'm in a pinch. I might have missed it, but I would like to see more group healing spells (perhaps more AOE outlines on the ground? are there more visual effects at a higher level?). For the chains effect, the casting time seemed pretty long considering you were rooted in place. It might be better if the character can still take a slow step left or right at the end of the cast MAYBE to finish redirecting it if the initial placement was off (or accidently clipped behind a tombstone). I was a little concerned that I couldn't really see the buffs when they landed on the other players or what effect they had...I wish there were some more visual cues when they hit the other players.
About the hammer attack from the fighter - I agree with other posters here that it looked floaty and was also really hard to target correctly. I was also wanting it to hit in a line, not just at the hammer head. So that was kinda disappointing to see that enemies within the handle weren't affected.
EDIT: So about Stamina.....I have a love/hate relationship with it. I think active blocking should be supported as an action without stamina and without restriction to class. Stamina could MAYBE be applied to boost certain shield or shielding abilities. Hmmm...yep, the more I think about it. stamina should only be a temporary boost to certain actions to really pack a punch. When stamina runs out, your boost ends and whatever action you were performing can continue at normal rates. Stamina SHOULD NOT limit how far/long your character can run, glide, or perform any type of normal movement.
So that's my "feedback." Am I ecstatic to play this game as soon as freakin possible? OH YES!
Let us help you spot test for pre Alpha 2....you won't regret it I promise!
I'm a big fan of the synergy system and love it so far, just one observation, form my experience with the synergy system in FFXI, make the timer to chain them long enough so it doesn't interfere with your individual gameplay or rotation or the system will be ignored, this happened in FFXI with skillchains, even tho they were very powerful the reaction time to proc one was so thight that people didn't bother with them, later the devopers increased the time frame to proc them and they started being more widely used.
Also think it would be a good idea to have your secondary archetype open different synergy possibilities, that way certain archetypes won't be locked out of content for missing this or that synergy.
Not sure what this means, but I'm personally against anything that creates a clear meta, I think any party composition should be viable, even if your party is 3 fighters they should still be able to pull some synergies by cooperation (not meaning they should be able to trigger them solo), of course, some situational combinations would be nice, but nothing that creates an absolutely necessary meta composition that would leave people locked out of content.
this opinion will probably be unpopular, but I think dodge and block should share a very limited resource, and with active block being a thing, dodge should not have iframes, that way you can create situations where dodge or block is a meaningful choice instead of just cheesy iframing everything and ignoring block because you have the skill and the connection to do so.
it all looks very decent, however yet again I have to say, you are overdoing it with animations and sounds. This is not a good way for a long-term focused game.
If you ever played Overwatch, imagine situations where multiple people press Q at once. The result is inevitably chaotic and not pleasant even for people that used their ultimate and get kills. Take a good example from that game(no matter the genre), play it for some time and you realize even skills that are not very visible can feel very good, even great if designed well.
You definitely can do it as well, just focus more on gameplay instead of visuals and feelings from visuals, it looks like Japanese anime a lot, I simply can't imagine 200 people pressing basic abilities like this in one place against each other.
And the same goes for sounds as well. first 30 hours I'd not notice, 50 after that and I'd have anger issues starts kicking and all that because of sounds. Please don't overdo it.
To the cleric gameplay itself. It's basically similar to wow holy paladin, perhaps kinda a mix with a resto shaman, right? Or that's the vibes I'm getting from it, it looks good tho, but would be a lot better if players' armor goes visual instead of everything around shining and shining circles etc.
Give the Burning Crusade cinematics trailer a look at how the paladin looked when read from the holy book, these effects I'd expect to see in games almost 20 years later... I know it's just alpha 1 but it's kinda disappointing seeing you focusing on the same visual types over all those years. Utilize the technology you have more and make something exciting.
Next time please make also a single approach and show how the class behaves alone. (meaning combat ofc) and show me some Rogue soon pls!
In addition, now seeing the warrior from another perspective I can say I really do not like this at all, I'm sorry I just do not like your approach to melee, it whole looks/feels like a console game just because this thing is there, that hunter in the other hand blends perfectly in, wish you make most like that
The cleric's AOE chains spelled looked fun. I liked how it combined with the fighter's ability to stun monsters.
Other people have mentioned that's the fighter's magic mace ability would fit the cleric better, and I wholeheartedly agree with that. The fighter is too flashy IMO. The magic mace and whirlwind abilities are a bit over the top.
This is a neat feature and I like where it's going. Would like to see this with other classes as well.
Do you think party composition should amplify the meta?
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this, but I do think the balance should be so that the ideal full party of 8 should be designed to include one of each primary archetype. Smaller groups should ideally have a Cleric, melee or tank, and ranged like we saw here.
I think an important part of MMORPG's is not merely encouraging people to group up, but having a focus on roles in those groups and that's what too many newer MMO's lack. It's right there in the "R" of RPG. So tank, melee phys dps, ranged phys dps, magic dps (usually ranged but I feel like we may see some meele magic dps in this game?), healer, support, tank, etc.
Party composition should focus on having specific roles and what unique things those roles bring to the table. A group of friends questing with a Cleric, Fighter, and Ranger, should have a leg up on a party of 3 random dps friends. If you want enough people to actually play the non-dps roles - Tank, Cleric, Support (Bard and Summoner), then those classes need to not only be really fun and powerful, but needed in every group.
What are your thoughts regarding the active blocking shown during the November Update?
Active blocking is nice but I'd like it to be balanced around having limited use. So ideally people will need to choose to use block only when they know a big hit is coming for example, but can't use it nonstop. So whether that's stamina that is reduced proportionately to the damage taken or a CD upon releasing the skill key, I don't know.
Share your thoughts about the hotbar, icons, minimap, party and targeting UI shown.
The style of the UI is a bit old school and I'd like it modernized a bit. I think having an "RPG" feel is nice as a style, but make it look modern like a new game and not something from 2005. I will say I did like the Cleric skill icon art.
The group UI needs a lot of work from a healer's perspective as well. I assume it's movable but aside from that, the team member HP bars in the group window looked difficult to click on. I'm not sure if the clickable space is small and needs to be made larger or what, but it needs to be easy and reliable enough to rapidly click on in a fraction of a second if people are going to be healing in intense PvE and PvP situations.
Also buffs and debuffs need to be more visible and we need options for what buffs/debuffs to see. There are ways to make this easier as well - for example Aion and TERA both would change the color of the HP bar if the party member had a debuff so I knew to cleanse it, so you don't have to clutter it with 10 different types of debuff icons. Buffs as well need to be bigger but often I might only want to see buffs I've cast, or short term buffs only, etc.
I'd like to see player as well as mob HP bars under nameplates above heads in the world (and I'd like to see player names as well as mob names in the world). Ideally mob/player HP bars would only show up if they're damaged, and let us choose in options what the threshold for this is (90% HP, 70% it shows up, anything below 100% it shows up, etc.). TERA visually did this well - they were small and didn't clutter the screen, but still visually easy to see. In the stream yesterday, you had a standard targeting window for the targeted mob, but it's easier for me to see what's going on if there's also a floating HP bar on the nameplate directly above the heads of all damaged friendly/enemy units.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Cleric update and weapons demo?
So my initial reaction during and right after the stream was very underwhelmed and I didn't love it. But I took another look today and it's a lot better than I thought it was. I know we talked this to death in Discord immediately post-stream so I won't beat a dead horse, but the presentation needs work because it makes the game you're presenting look worse than it is. We've mentioned this for several streams now but seeing it from a healer PoV really made it obvious. I would suggest having people who know the classes well and are skilled gamers be the ones playing the classes and you can have devs and Steven talk over a video of them playing. It can be other devs, or anonymous PI spot testers (personally I like this idea best), or whoever - that you film playing in a planned, organized fashion that Steven and the 2 featured devs can record a voiceover discussion for.
That being said, what I saw of Cleric was a fairly standard start from what I can tell so no issues with that. It felt like a nicely complete skillset to start with and there were some neat mechanics thrown in like the Heal/Damage single target ability, Convictions amplifying the Chain heal (and whatever else it amplifies), the Chains synergizing with other abilities, etc.
I was a bit disappointed that it didn't feel like there were more action styled abilities. I'm ok with tab target but it felt 100% tab target and not like a hybrid skillest. A PbAoE heal and GtAoE damage/CC isn't enough for me to feel like there are action abilities to choose from simply because every tab target game already has those. I'd take the design (but not visuals) of Wildstar as inspiration for the action side of hybrid I think you're going for - long thick lines are good as "single target" heals, or longer than normal cones, or they also had things like mid range square/rectangle abilities for a "melee healer" style ability as well as a bunch of other cool things. I've seen you do stuff like this with other classes already (Mage in A1 videos had almost entirely templated action abilities like this, the Ranger jump/leap is a line) so I know you can do these types of abilities well already. I'd just love to see some of them for Cleric. I will tab target heal if I have to and have fun with it, but I'd prefer more options.
My last comment is in regards to visuals. I liked the general look of the ability animations that I saw, but they were too hard to see. Make all of the Cleric abilities much, much more visible so in the heat of combat I and anyone else paying attention can see who is healed (or damaged) and with what ability. Also make sure each animation physically connects with the target it's healing at the moment the heal goes off and supposedly heals them.
Overall everything I saw was improved from what I saw in A1, but needs a lot more work for me.
Unknown. I have to see how it interacts with secondary archetypes and classes before I can form an opinion. EG: Can a mage/fighter create a pbaoe fire attack that staggers, even though stagger is a fighter thing and (presumably) not a mage thing?
Do you think party composition should amplify the meta?
Always
What are your thoughts regarding the active blocking shown during the November Update?
I actually didn't mind New World's blocking and stamina. I played a tank with sword/shield and ice gauntlet. There was an often overlooked perk for the ice gauntlet that allowed you to block melee attacks with less stamina which I used to great effect when getting wailed on by melee attackers in pvp (I like neiche tricks like that that are powerful but most people miss)
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Cleric update and weapons demo?
What I liked
I like the idea of building conviction. It gives the healer something to do when fighting 'trash mobs' where they wouldn't normally need to heal, and lets them save power for when they need it. I wonder if all the archetypes will have a resource, but it sounds like that is in active discussion.
What I did not like
We were promised 'something special' that was needed for the delay. Still not sure what that was. It would have been appreciated if you had thanked us for being patient and told us what, specifically, was the 'something special' that you needed more time for.
The going theory is that you just hadn't recorded the video yet. If that's the case, then say that. Don't promise us 'something special' when you are just behind.
I think there was something planned you forgot. You chopped down some wood because you'd need it later. Not sure if that was just to show off the tree chopping again, or if it was actually needed for something you forgot about.
Fantastic. I definetely want this to be featured. You have to, however, make sure it is easily visible and discoverable. For example in GW2 they use this type of system when abilities combo but their implementation is awful, many players don't even know it exists. When it happens it's not obvious if you are not already looking for it and you are never sure what works or why so it's not very discoverable outside of watching guides or reading wikis.
Do you think party composition should amplify the meta?
Yes, just yes. Building diverse and effective parties should always be a part of encounter planning. Just be careful to allow for variety. Many games lock in exclusive metas. Please reward planning but allow a variety of builds. In other words, there should absolutely be many compositions that do not work but there should always be many things that do work.
What are your thoughts regarding the active blocking shown during the November Update?
Hard to say. I like the idea, but it wasn't really demonstrated.
Share your thoughts about the hotbar, icons, minimap, party and targeting UI shown.
The layout looks good, its very minimalist which is fine as long as there are many options to add more info as I see fit. The presentation/art style was boring but I'm assuming that's coming later.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Cleric update and weapons demo?
The look and feel of the cleric was fantastic. As far as the "armored healer" aesthetic, you nailed it. I do want more variety of styles in the game however, for example nature types (druid like), tribal types (shaman), Dot types (Fury/Warden).
Looks good, but it seems not very easy to do the combo with a full party or in a raid when situation become chaotic, I wondering if it’s easy enough to do for average players.
* Do you think party composition should amplify the meta?
I don’t like party composition could amplify the meta, if a true meta exist it’s already not good for the game environment I don’t want to see party composition able to further snowball the meta effect letting the meta to lock down the party composition and end up with play meta or have to play solo situation.
I prefer party composition have its pros and cons to deal with different situations but without huge difference of outcome.
* What are your thoughts regarding the active blocking shown during the November Update?
Looks cool, but don’t see the benefit or how it amplify shield gameplay, maybe further timing the basic attack after blocking to perform counter attack that proc some effects that have synergy with other abilities or classes?
* Share your thoughts about the hotbar, icons, minimap, party and targeting UI shown.
All looks good, but I personally prefer GW2’s HP orb, hot bar, party UI, it’s make me able to more focus on my target because the HP orb is very easy to read, hot bar and party UI in GW2 is very simple and compact allow me to have more clear vision about game world.
* Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Cleric update and weapons demo?
Cleric concept is great, heal skills can also do damage will make healer leveling experience better and the predict kind of gameplay is just great but I afraid the entry could be too high for average players.
I feel mace and staff are a little bit too slow, especially staff not just too slow but also the attack range is too close but I guess you’re referring quarterstaff HEMA which is ok but I still want let you know that in Asia staff(we call long stcik)/spear basically is the king of cold weapon because of the long reach.
Attack timing: The 2 abilities I am referring to are the fighters hammer attack and the clerics stagger AOE. I feel with targeted attacks like this the delay between starting the move to it hitting feels/looks a little rough.
For abilities like the AOE stagger it doesn’t feel good to miss when enemies move out of the AOE before it fully casts unless it was a very impactful ability. What I think might feel better is either instant cast on a targeted area, or delayed cast and it auto hits enemies in a range (like the buff move Steven did several times).
For the hammer ability, similar issue where I feel like we see in the gameplay frequently where the ability gets activated, but the enemy closes the gap and moves out of it. It’s a pretty slow move and it seems this could at least be sped up unless it is really a massive damage move. One thing that I couldn’t tell if it is already the case, but if hitting in the sweet spot of the hammer did higher damage then if they were just in the gap between that spot and the player. Then it would allow for the ability to still hit and also the player be rewarded if they are able to time it properly.
Attack impact: This is specific to hammer and snipe ability. This may just be in progress, but I feel like it is huge to see enemies be affected by being hit, especially from heavy attacks. We see a snipe hit an enemy in the gameplay and I think it feels so much better when a very strong, long wind up bow attack like that, has impact when it hits the enemy and makes them either stop for a moment or even take a small step back. This wouldn’t be the case for the quick shots, only those really beefy charged shots.
For the hammer, again going back to that sweet spot, I think with such a powerful animation it would make so much sense for that to knock enemies down giving the player a moment of breathing room and a lot of satisfaction.
Don’t want to drag this out any longer, but thank you for allowing us to share feedback like this.
The concept is great, but please dont have it where every class has a stagger, every class has a immobilize, every class has a cripple, etc. Keep each primary class unique, and have them feed off of the other classes identities. "level up" the condition by applying the same one from several different classes is just boring to me. You want the fighter(or just melee primary classes in general) to stagger things? Then design abilities of other classes to proc differently when there is a stagger affect. Magic users could have freezes, burns, fears, charms, and all of those can cause other abilities to react differently. Just stacking up that same condition across different classes to increase the affect seems boring, and it blurs the lines between class/role identities. If that is all it will be, I would rather just have class specific abilities that arent changed by other players abilities, and maintaining that class identity.
Also if synergies do become a thing, I think support classes should only have "starters" to offensive synergies while DPS are tasked with finisher offensive synergies. And that should be flipped around for synergies that could be considered defensive.
Do you think party composition should amplify the meta?
As long as it is balanced and there are several party combinations that are completely viable in both PVE and PVP. Dont make a clear and obvious meta through your design, always have a counter to it.
What are your thoughts regarding the active blocking shown during the November Update?
Not a fan of stamina mechanics , class resources for abilities and actions are preferred. Stamina tends to just make gameplay feel sluggish, tedious, and just non-fluid.
If implemented, make active blocking a timed skill where you have to block in accordance with the attacks being made to make them effective. As far as MMO's go I don't really care for active blocking, but am also indifferent to it. Just as happy with passive block chances or mitigation.
Share your thoughts about the hotbar, icons, minimap, party and targeting UI shown.
Hotbar- need options for more of them, I use different hotbars for different spell types, items, and I do different keybindings for each hotbar set. I also want a UI thats allows me to display specific buffs, debuffs, or cooldowns, and the ability to change the size of them. I like being able to see the buffs and debuffs on me clearly and in my immediate peripheral, not something I have to squint at to see.
icons- Icons looked fine, just be sure to make the icons embody whatever the spells intent is.
minimap- The minimap looks alright, simple and clean. But I do suggest to make the compass able to be more mainstage onscreen. When I am making a direction callout, I want it to be in my imediate line of sight, not having to look over at the minimap. Usually having a compass at the top of the screen is best.
party- The party UI seems fine, but as a healer I would want more info on my party as far as active buffs and debuffs go for each, and have them be distinguishable from one another. Maybe also an option for some directional pointers for what direction each party member is in.
Targeting Just show me what debuffs are on the target, and only show its buffs if an ability was used to see them. Allow for icon markers above targets to show focus for the party.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Cleric update and weapons demo?
-BODY BLOCKING looked fantastic, with mobs who appear after engaging and blocking in players with poor positioning is top tier design. Give larger enemies beefier stats and try to have them body block for other mobs to soak up attacks.
-KITING/MOB MOVEMENT
enemy movement design to negate mass farming/kiting
Eratic,varied movement and speed is great. Balance it so that fast enemys with low damage and high CC pair with slower more powerful enemies that can vary their approach and speeds to negate AOE farming.
Different enemies with different vulnerabilities in the same pack can also assist in creative, important combat decisions made by players, and also prevent cheesing pulls.
Packs kiting distance should be determined by each other just as much as by the players distance. If the player gets too far while still pulling the faster packs, they should reset if those fast mobs get too far from the slower mobs of the pack.
-Voiced my concerns with Condition Synergies taking away from class identity. All classes having abilities that do the same thing is boring design. Basically Retail WoW where everyone has a stun, everyone has an escape, everyone has a heal. All you seem to be proposing is "each class has a similar ability, and when those abilities get cast one after another, it levels that abilities affect up." Where I believe it would be more interesting to go a route of having support classes triggering a base condition, and allowing dps classes to have those conditions determine how their abilities affect that target through increased damage, longer stun, longer freeze, lifesteal, bigger AOE, etc. Definitely difficult to balance, but it adds more combat viability to support classes as well.
As a healer/support class, my biggest priority is making sure that the combat mechanics work seamlessly to make our lives easier. Two things that I was a little concerned about looking at this footage were:
1. UI clarity
Seeing as though this is a somewhat action/hybrid combat system I don't feel there was enough information available to the healer in an easy to see place. There were no healthbars above friendly players (was this an option though that Steve had turned off?). In a more fast paced combat game, having to look over at the party unit frames to see everyone's health, takes your attention away from what's happening in front of you. Keeping your attention on party frames ends up feeling like that 'whack-a-mole' gameplay type that you mentioned, very much in antithesis to what I believe you want to build here.
2. Action Heal Targeting
Again, as a more hybrid combat system, I would love to see options on how this works for heal targeting when in action mode. New World failed miserably at this. Their heal targeting worked AGAINST a player and makes it hard to heal the players you want, during very chaotic encounters. This included the poor nameplate functionality for friendly players, as well as the way the camera locked onto targets - together it just made it so hard to properly heal.
I would love to see some sort of target painting for healers. For instance, you activate the heal spell, move the reticule over a character model to soft lock on them them, and then click or activate the spell again to cast it. Could also be a press + hold and then release to cast.
In general, the UI should allow for a breadth of option when it comes to mob and player nameplates. Allow us to customise what we see and how much we see. Some people (myself included) don't care to see a players title, guild name, blood type and next of kin in their nameplate. Just a name and health bar will suffice. Or perhaps we want to see that full information for our current target only. Then there are some people who want full immersion and just want to see the the nameplate of their current target only.
All the while we should also be able to customise their size and opacities in any given state.
Overall, I was blown away with what was presented and eagerly await more gameplay reveals.
Intrepid, keep doing the amazing sorcery that you're doing!
I've never been a massive fan of active blocking. I've always been a stat person because the RPG element of an mmorpg comes from the character being the embodiment of the player, not the actual player himself. Thus, the character's progression should be the main thing that matters, not how fast the player can press a button to prevent damage. There are instances where player agency matters more, i.e. not standing in fire. But ultimately it's the stats that should dictate the character's reaction to events
Of the games that I've played that did have an active block I hated the ones that tied blocking and dodging to the same energy system (stamina). Actively absorbing damage and trying not to get hit are two different types of skills. If anything, they should also be tied to stats. For example, the more agility a character has the farther they can dodge or do more dodges. More strength means greater block absorption and/or more block chances.
* Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Cleric update and weapons demo?
I prefer to play a healer in mmorpgs in a very non- traditional way from most who play the archetype. Traditionally many healers love to play the class like a cloth-wearing caster, in the rear, away from danger. I prefer to play as an active melee healer (plate or mail), fighting alongside the other melee classes on the front line. I shouldn't be expected to do anywhere near the damage of a pure melee class nor perhaps even have the ability to kill anyone solo, but I should have the ability to survive a beating in a melee fight against other melee players while providing my own with heals.
Far too often developers forget about defensive-oriented players that love to support the real dps, who have survivability to stay within melee range. As a result, generally, developers end up gutting survivability in favor of the more popular high dps and low time-to-kill playstyle because a lot of dps players get upset when they can't kill everyone and since dps makes up the majority of the player base, they often get their feedback validated.
I do hope that the mace and shield that were used in the November update highlights AoC's commitment to allowing any player to craft a class to a play style that fits their preferences. And that the Cleric can be shaped in a way to allow players to adopt a more melee/defensive-oriented style of healing. I just hope that slapping on plate and putting on a shield doesn't become the only way to differentiate one cleric play style from another, especially if increased healing is tied to gear ( i.e. cloth gets a healing bonus). Because that only creates an illusion of choice. It would force a playstyle onto the players-- healers would have to wear cloth in order to do well as a "real" healer
A couple targeted heals and an AoE slow has practically zero skill expression and is among the most generic healing gameplay I can recall seeing in an MMO.
I realize that this was only showing low level abilities, but there was nothing said to make me feel like higher level abilities will be any more interesting.
I asked this in other game developments, nobody ever did it
I hope AoC has this
To be fair, by me, it could even have a prison island that people would need to do quests there for a week so they can build a boat and escape the island... would be great for working with unknown people and making friends for life while escaping
I still want to ability to the Bounty Hunter to send the defeated corrupted to the gibbets for 10-15 minutes, after 15 minutes anyone (even the corrupted) can open the cage and the corrupted has to run away or be lynched by the passers-by
Yeap, those hanging medieval gibbets placed in the town square or at the entrance... put the corrupted there for public humiliation and make him be locked in there for 10-15 minutes... all the dead gatherers probably lost way more time than this... Make a 1 hour cooldown before he can be imprisioned again
(I don't know what this has to do with the thread but JUST in case it helps somehow?)
When you say imprisoned you definitely mean 'Not like Jail in Archeage or BDO where you go after being killed while Corrupted sometimes' and 'not like Mordion Gaol in FFXI and FFXIV where you get send for griefing or similar things by GMs'?
You mean something specific to... I guess nodes?
In today's stream Stephen asked us about this, he wants us posting here in this thread about being imprisioned
I guess you didn't watch yet
after 1:13:30
You know how a Cleric levelling is often slower than a DPS class because of their lower DPS? This makes a Cleric want to group up with a DPS to level equally well. So I would like to see something missing from the DPS classes to slow them down too, and make them think that they could level better with a Cleric.
The obvious solution being DPS get low HP compared to Clerics. The DPS would need increased down time between their mad DPSing to recover. This will prevent the discouragement people feel towards playing a slow to level class, as the other classes would not have a clear levelling advantage.
This strategy encourages group play of course, even just simple pairs. This strategy also makes it less likely that 3 DPS are going to be 'better' than 2 DPS and a tank/cleric, which is the balancing bane of smaller encounters.
Discord
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I am new here, but have been following the project for a while. I find Ashes extremely exciting and hope it will be as good as everyone hopes.
* What are your thoughts regarding the active blocking shown during the November Update?
As I develop indie games myself (I know, Ashes is no indie game
Without stamina, we have to note following aspects:
- blocking should not be available permanently
- the system must work for pve and pvp
- the system should be fun
Idea for PVE without stamina:
- blocking should be intended to withstand violent blows from enemies or bosses. Like, a boss makes a heavy blow at the end of a boss phase, which you can only survive if you block in time.
- to prevent permanent blocking, the effectiveness of blocking (damage reduction) should decrease exponentially after each strike
- The longer a tank practices active blocking, the more threat he/she loses.
- You can use the shield again directly when you put it away, but the damage reduction has a cooldown. Example: You use the shield, get hit several times, the effectiveness of the damage reduction therefore decreases. Only when you do not use the shield for X seconds do you regain full block effectiveness (cooldown).
- AOE and similar skills should not be blockable (here you have to dodge to get out of the radius)
= Result: No stamina needed, fun mechanics for bosses and enemys are possible, no permanently blocking, no clunky movement mechanics (no stamina for blocking, dodging and running together)
Idea for PVP without stamina:
- Same as PVE, but without threat lose of course
= Result: No stamina needed, fun and interessting pvp fights, no permanently blocking, no clunky movement mechanics (no stamina for blocking, dodging and running together)
I am looking forward for your feedback
Best regards
Oooh, I like this idea - perhaps we could expand on the shield mechanic in that shields are imbued with magical protection that regenerates over time - so it's more of an equilibrium balancing act, rather than a cooldown reset?
It also means you can introduce a whole swathe of skills focused around using excess magic generated by the shield, or emergency recharges, etc.
- It's cool that you need good synergy/communication between party members to deal some extra damage or bonus effects. It's going to be very skillbased. The differance between a party that is on comms vs a party that isn't is going to be huge. Tryharders on comms are going to be flamed by the people that doesn't want to join voice comms. As per usual maybe. If that is not the desired intent you could always go with a more reactive synergy style, for example warrior does an effect, cleric sees that and reacts on it without nesesarily having to use voice comms.
•What are your thoughts regarding the active blocking shown during the November Update?
- Idk about this one. Does block, parry and stats like that not work fine as is? Why having stats if you can just right click to bring up your shield and block? Just add a skill on the hotbar that bring up your shield, maybe a channeled one or something.
If active blocking needs to be implemented please make us be able to predict how many times the person has the ability to block again, probably stamina bar or something works fine or an icon in form of a shield that has a crack on it, showing the person only has one active block left before they can't use it for a while
•Share your thoughts about the hotbar, icons, minimap, party and targeting UI shown.
- So i love healing and the party frames i think needs to be bigger(especially the health portion) and having me be able to see what buffs/hots that is active on partymembers, both in party frames and above their heads. I think i would prefer the party frames being more compact aswell
•Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Cleric update and weapons demo?
-So early to tell but here are something i thought about:
-I like the 5 sec cooldown single target range heal, looks cool and works how you would expect.
-20 sec aoe heal cooldown? wow so long.
- mace and shield is cool combo (still doesn't like how the shield is held at an downwards angle in a relaxed arm, looks sloppy and nonchalant)
- too many animations he bring the shield up above his head ( the standard single target heal i think) makes the shield look like paper weight, should been the mace he be swinging or raising I think.
I like the concept. I would prefer if conditions for synergy were more generic so more classes could participate. Not like you need warrior and cleric for combo but rogue could trigger the same combo. It could maybe help reducing the definitive meta builds and class combinations.
- What are your thoughts regarding the active blocking shown during the November Update?
If the game supports tab target, I don't personally see a point in only active blocking but I wouldn't mind having such option. I like having more options how to setup my build and playstyle.
Not really sure about balancing it. If you give active blocking some advantage, it will automatically become meta because that's what is best and why would you use just passive block...
Maybe active block could focus on small cone that would be useful for bosses but in mass pvp passive all directional block could be better.
- Share your thoughts about the hotbar, icons, minimap, party and targeting UI shown.
I really hope there will be multiple options to target party members and our surrounding area. Like if I press some key (mapped to side mouse button) with combination of 1-5, I would select party members 1-5. I want button that would toggle between my current and last target. Another button that would select nearest enemy target etc.
I hate when part of game difficulty is game interface. If tank for example is surrounded with mobs and it's difficult to select him I want other options to overcome it than just clicking on their party avatar.
About the cleric weapon showed, I don;t really like basic attack animations of the 2 hand staff. It just felt quite off, kinda disconnected. No weight behind it.
Really liked the environment and mobs.
Its great to see something that encourages team play.
What are your thoughts regarding the active blocking shown during the November Update?
The more I talked with friends and players in my guild and on discord I DO NOT think we should have active Blocking. It works in other games but not this type of game.
Ashes is based off of DnD rules which is a stats and roll system.
Blocking, Parrying, and Dodging chance should be based off of Original Stats, Armor Stats, Weapon Stats, and the skills you choose in the skill tree.
Once you start giving players more ways to do those things it muddies the gameplay and balance of the other systems. I am fine with the Hybrid system with the ability to choose tab or action.
Example #1: If you want to dodge an attack you either move your character out of the way or use a skill "blink" to blink left of the attack to miss it. or let your dodge chance stat and hope you get chance to dodge that attack or miss some of the damage.
Example #2: If you want to block an attack as a tank it should come from a skill that (generates a shield for amount of time) or hope that your block chance is high enough from your main stats, armor, or weapon.
I'm ok with blocking being as a skill on my action bar but not cool with it being a regular attack block button that I can hold down.
Share your thoughts about the hotbar, icons, minimap, party and targeting UI shown.
Everything looks clean and simple.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Cleric update and weapons demo?
I felt the synergy combat was cool and it forces players to time their attacks and actually talk strategy while playing and call out their attacks so the other players will time their attacks to force a synergy attack which i thought was cool. I hop they come up with some badass synergies like timing a hammer slam and a fire arrow attack to form a flaming hammer slam exploding the ground with fire.
I think they need to make the heal FX to other players more prominent with the FX. I couldnt tell when another player was getting healed or not. other than the wave heal that let out a stream of light Fx i couldnt tell when it hit the player. adding a light FX on the player thats getting healed woulld help visually.
Also the wave heal you can tell where the spell FX ended near the other player. There was a clear visible line where the spell just cuts off. Either need to work on the blending of that or actually as a light FX on the player to better blend that end of the spell.
member of Gray Sentinels
I am going to preface this by saying my healing experience comes from TERA, Archeage, Elder Scrolls Online, FF14, Wildstar, WoW, Guild Wars 2, New World(yikes). There is a combination of factors in all these games in what makes or breaks how fun the healing is. As shown in your demo healers are not limited to just Healing, and should have access to a variety of abilities. Heals/Buffs/Debuffs/Shields/Cleanse/CCs/Resource Regeneration/Mobility Abilities to name a few. The one thing I see most games miss is that Healers should have the same dynamic abilities as other classes, just because it is a healer it should not necessarily be simplified to all targeted or circle AOE abilities.
I want to go into some examples:
Archeage
Archeage Healing will always have a special place in my heart in terms of feeling the impact of your healing in both Raid V Raid Combat and Small Scale. Great Raid Frames/Clickable Player Health Bars were ESSENTIAL for this system to be effective. Archeage's system of combining classes together inherently allowed for Diverse healer roles. Mobility is a HUGE factor in the success of action oriented combat.
(I Played all Classes)
Notable ability attributes:
* Healing and other abilities would combo together. Ex: Applying a single target HoT would Strengthen your Single Target Nuke or Proc an Effect with your AoE Mend Ability
* Variations on healing abilities Ex: Hearts or single target nuke heal could be applied as infinite lighting fast small ticks(mana limited).. 5 medium instant ticks.. Or One Large HoT for tanks.
* Variation of Classes allowed for several Healer Variants.. My favorites were Pure AOE Nuke Healers.. Healers with Crowd Control.. Healers With buffs and Songs.. Healers Dedicated to Resurrection through attack speed/ CD Reduction. All had their own strengths and weaknesses.
* Mobility Mobility Mobility Multiple teleports / back drops / stealth variations
(Not my Video)
Tera
Tera had one of the best healing systems ive ever played in terms of engagement and action oriented gameplay in an mmo. With the "Painting" targeting system and a small variety of healing abilities it set the priest apart from healers in other games. Tera had its limitations in the AoE placement but more than made up for it with the action-oriented fast gameplay.
(I played Priest)
Notable ability attributes:
* Notice the engagement of normal healing abilities have when you paint the target.
* 4 second Cooldown AoE Circle Cleanse in front of the Caster (IMO way better than the Typical Single Target Cleanse abilities and makes you aim or be in danger to cleanse)
* Dynamic AoE Healing abilities that spawn on target or where you place it. (More on this later)
* Access to Buffs and Shields(Magic barriers not Literal Shield)
(Not my Video) Loud Sound Warning
Wild Star
Wildstar was a great example of action combat with no tab target abilities and innovation in Shaped AoE abilities. Within Healing it is often forgotten that there are more shapes than a circle. Wildstar was able to utilize its telegraph system to create several distinct healer archetypes.
(I Played Medic.)
Notable ability attributes:
* Healing was action oriented and telegraphed with different Shapes and locations where you aimed creating interesting healing gameplay
* Including but Not limited to Frontal Cones.. Diamonds.. Lines.. Circles.. Solid and void.. Random.. Pulsating/Changing
* Clear Ally/Enemy AoE indicators
* Different available builds to focus Healing/Shields/ or dps focus all in one class.
* Ability to choose effects on certain abilities.
(Not my Video)
Elder Scrolls Online
Elder Scrolls Online had some great moments when it came to Healing Action Combat but was limited by its active ability pool.The ability to place aoe's anywhere was a good move. The ability to block.. roll.. crouch.. sneak.. were all great features.This unfortunately was accompanied by auto-targeted Aoe abilities around the caster. This system was way better than whatever New World was trying to do with their targeting system but i still feel it lacks when you start to add more skills into the mix and doesnt allow for good skill based Healing.
(I played Templar)
Notable ability attributes:
* Healing was action oriented and abilities were only limited by Global CDs and resources
* Clear Ally/Enemy AoE indicators
* Had a decent variety of Healing builds
* Mobility Mobility Mobility dashes / teleports / back drops / stealth variations
* Ultimate Healing Ability
(My old Video) lol.. 7 years ago.. sheesh time flies by
World of Warcraft Classic/Retail
WoW was not my first MMO and maybe that is why I am so hard on it, but Typically (Before DragonFlight) Healing in wow was severely limited by the tab targeting system. This is accompanied by classes and abilities that largely heal the same way(throw your hands up Resto Druids). If you didnt have some huge text pop up saying you are some type of CCed you wouldnt know what was going on because a lot of the animations are very similar and characters don't react in an action way. I think the new Evoker class starts to break this trend and is a step in the right direction for them in terms of engaging combat.
I Played Holy Priest in Classic and Pres Evoker/Resto Druid/Monk in Retail)
Notable ability attributes:
* Mostly Traditional Healing Mechanics with low mobility
* Good variety of Healing Abilities Instant/Hots/AoE/Totems. Skills also combo with each other within the class
* Preservation Evoker is great step forward in action engaging combat with skills that cause movement/AoE/Charging Healing Skills/Aimed abilities
* Typically good amount of skills and options
(Not My Video)
Evoker Gameplay
New World
I followed New Worlds Development and the regression in the amount abilities one could use blows my mind. You would imagine as a game goes on development you would increase the amount of skills, lets hope ashes does not go down this path. Healing in a game without raid frames.. Is this some kind of joke? The botched targeting options are a convoluted joke. The gameplay is spamming the same few abilities over and over and over again. I Digress.. They are at least trying action combat.. but why give healer targeting if nothing else in the game uses this..
(I Played enough.. with life staff and void gauntlet)
Notable ability attributes:
* Mix of action and target that fails in my opinion. There is no advantage to not targeting an ability. The aiming of the one aoe ability you do have is not good.
* You have what you have.. all 3-6 skills that have terrible customization.
* The ability to block.. roll.. crouch.. sneak.. were all great features.
* Trying to be positive here.. Skills trees/Ability Modifiers have potential..
(Not My Video)
In final, my point of this post was to highlight different examples of Healing archetypes spanning multiple games. The elements of a successful Healing experience come from not only the abilities, but also the user interface and how you interact with the game. Allowing different healing builds focusing on one thing while providing another helps to alleviate stagnant gameplay of repeating the same thing over and over again. Unreal Engine with the use of Niagra has the potential to create some wild AoE effects and shapes so absolutely it should be used to produce character interaction in abilities. Imagine particle effects actually having collision with players and that is what provides the healing.. Not just a circle on the ground. For some reason I really love healing in video games knowing that I have the ability to keep whole raids alive or changing the outcome of a battle with good timed or placed abilities just feels good.
Anyways feel free to let me know your thoughts..
Other questions
How do you feel about the synergy between archetypes and status conditions?
Yes
Do you think party composition should amplify the meta?
Yes, Party comp should matter but Multiple classes should have access to necessary status effect/conditions
What are your thoughts regarding the active blocking shown during the November Update?
Good needs more reaction/animation and reactive blocking but not at the expense of performance
Share your thoughts about the hotbar, icons, minimap, party and targeting UI shown.
Good.. Need clickable health bars.