Greetings, glorious testers!
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest news on Alpha Two.
Check out general Announcements here to see the latest news on Ashes of Creation & Intrepid Studios.
To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest news on Alpha Two.
Check out general Announcements here to see the latest news on Ashes of Creation & Intrepid Studios.
To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
Also when people say tank in mmorpg no one talks about military vehicles ever, regardless of name people will refer you as a tank because that is what you are.
In other words, this would mean that AOC does not consider RP. This would be a very big default. This would also open the door to any other ridiculous fantasy
What you are saying doesn't make sense in terms of being a player that plays mmorpg. Everyone calls tanks tanks in every mmorpg, it doesn't matter what fancy wording you want instead. There is nothing wrong with archetype (which isn't a class) being called a tank. Even after you get your fancy name, people will still call you a tank.
Words hurt, man.
But what kind of potato? I'm partial to Covington, myself.
Serious question. Why are those that don't like the name so dead set against anything that is different?
That being said, it doesn't bother me that much.
I find calling zones "nodes" instead of something like "territories" more annoying, personally.
I also think being "Dishonored" sounds better & makes more sense than "Corrupted."
The "node" is the settlement or city. Not the zone. The node does have a zone of influence though, which can vary in size, but the node itself is more like a point on the map.
Corrupted is just straight from the lore, where corruption is a real thing affecting the world.
As for Tank... eh.. not my preferred, but some of the other archetype names are also pretty generic.
So, there is sot of a debate going on with the quesiton: should other classes be able to tank".. My opinion is no. There is one tank class and one healing class roles. Other classes may off-role tank but it shouldnt be considered viable for any type of serious content.
That's why they chose the name "Tank", because there will be only one of them. However, I do agree its a very unoriginal name. Like if they had called the cleric a "healer".
So here are my suggestions for a "armored melee damage taker threat mitigator mob control class". (which may require some archetype names to have to change) And none of them really that original sadly but.. with what we are up against, might be slightly better.
Paragon
Knight
Templar
Shieldbearer
Controller
Regulator
Resistor
So, I have a question for you, if you wouldnt mind.
If we assume players will do exactly what they do in every other game, and refer to all tank classes as tanks, what exactly is the issue you have with the class name?
It's not as if it should ever be referred to in game other than in UI elements - NPC's shouldn't ever really be referring to your class.
I was initially against the name, somewhat vehemently. But when I was asked to actually look at what the issue I had with it was, I really came up short with any reasoning behind being against it.
If the only way you will hear or read the name "tank" is either from other players (who will refer to you as a tank regardless of the class name) or the games UI that is literally just referring to the class kit you have selected, I really, REALLY dont see a problem.
I don't even know why I waste time explaining it, it's just obvious! It's just common sense.
Genre has used tank for ages, dont know what you are on about of lack of respect.
This part I agree with.
However, I disagree that there is a need for this in relation to the games class kits.
I wouldnt expect to see players referred to as tanks by any NPC's on game.
It is - to me - perfectly valid for a game developer to refer to something in terms of a games system and mechanics by using the same term that players will use. This is not showing disrespect for the genre, it is showing understanding of the genres fans
Again, to me, it is only an issue if it is referred to in game by NPC's - if it is used in storytelling.
To me, that is the point where disrespect of the genre starts - and not before.
You are trying to educate PvP players. Nice try.
Honnestly I am also a PvP player and I am the guy who skip 80% of dialogs with NPC... But still I like to keep a minimum of immersion and RP, otherwise I would play counter strike. The world (and in this case de word) are super important in MMO's.
Of course I am not telling it is totally ruining the game, and I don't want to exagerate. But such details are still important and I am a bit surpise that 95% of people in this post like the class Tank.
Maybe Im becoming old.
You better get used to it cuz it ain't gonna change. And you can call it anything you want, in every mmo people always call the class Tank no matter what.
It's not a Class here, it's an Archetype. After your first few weeks when you're Level 25+, you'll have your actual Class and will be called something different. It's really not that big a deal.
And after lvl 25 everyone will still be calling it a tank anyway.
No it isn't, you are just not used to seeing Tank used in a more official sense. It's just new to you is all. And yeah it takes a little getting used to. My initial reaction was also that it's weird, but like all words and languages, usage evolves. The informal/slang becomes formal speech. Intrepid is doing that with the word Tank.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/slang-amelioration
"It's not a big deal" means you agree that the name isn't the best choice but you accept it and do not really care, right ? Or you think it's a relavant name ?
I mean, in this case let's simplify all classes and use a slang equivalent for each of them. Now the term "Tank" is like a stain if it is the only term concerned by this progressive vision of MMO.
Why not !? "Healer" instead of "Cleric"
I think it's fine as a name. It instantly tells anyone looking at the archetypes what it does and what it's for. Anyone who hasn't been following the game for years will know at a glance if that's the archetype they want to be playing. Tanking has a very specific gameplay experience and absolutely isn't for everybody. Letting people know up-front what will be expected of them can only be a good thing.
You say you're into RP: So, RP as a Sanctus-dweller heading back to Verra, who has never heard of Earthly World Wars and has no idea what an armoured tank is, and ask your RP-self who has no idea what an armoured tank is if you really give a shit about it being called a 'Tank'. There's no RP reason that 'Tank' shouldn't be in the game. If you absolutely need it to be lore-based, then they could just write a two-minute script that says why it's called a 'Tank'. Would that make it better for you?
And to be honest, if I was putting $XXm into making the game of my dreams, then I'd call the archetypes whatever the hell I wanted them to be, too.
Fighter - a person or animal that fights.
Rogue - a dishonest or unprincipled person.
Ranger - a keeper of a park, forest, or area of countryside.
Bard - a poet, traditionally one reciting epics and associated with a particular oral tradition.
Mage - a magician or learned person.
Summoner - One who summons or evokes, particularly in legal contexts. (historical) An apparitor; An officer of an ecclesiastical court whose job it was to deliver a summons to an offending member of the diocese.
I would argue it's mainly the popularity of D&D and AD&D throughout the last 20-50 years that has turned these words into widely accepted fantasy class/role names. So a very recent addition to the meaning of these words really. Maybe you're very young and think that is a long time ago, and that somehow makes them "classic".
The Tank role has mostly been placed under the Warrior umbrella in D&D, but in MMORPGs it has evolved into its own role in the holy trinity system. The Holy Trinity (the Christian concept of God as three entities: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit) is another example of a very recent addition to the original meaning, now referring to tank, dps, healer in MMORPG terminology.
All this is just to say that using Tank as a name for an Archetype is not disrespectful or out of place. It's a colloquial name for a specific role that has been used for about 30 years, and just like the other archetype names, it's probably time it's being formalized in a game.
35 years is just the very early beginning of MMO with an apogee on the late 90's (classics). I hope I still can be considered like young If I disovered MMO in the 1990's... Are you a WW2 veteran to consider it as recent ?
And D&D is super inspired by Tolkien which himself got inspired by others...
At the the same time, Im not a purist neither a progressist. I just try to value the beautiful and I consider a video game as a work of art. "Tank" is ugly.
Maybe in my native language it will be translated in another word... In this case I would be fine if they build the story arround this world only on the English version.
No, I'm not a WW2 vet
I am speaking of recent in terms of the meaning of words and how language changes in general. And yes, Tolkien and folklore in general (which was where Tolkien got his inspiration) and other fantasy works of the time is obviously what inspired D&D and their naming schemes.
It's fine to think the name is ugly. I don't particularly love it myself, but at the same time, it's the word that keeps being used by everyone that plays the genre. Even if they called it a Guardian, which I would prefer in some ways, people would still call it Tank. Myself included.
I'm happy that you admit that you don't like it much. After all, Intrepid is an American studio, so I shouldn't push too hard on good taste. America is great but it's also the country where you fry oysters and wear white socks with a dark suit.
It's just a pity to build a wonder without paying attention to the details.
The world of Verra has it's own culture and lore of which we know very little of at this time.
If we from the US went forth and started pushing for the rest of the world to change it's norms and positions on calling Football Soccer. There would rightly be mass push back. I see it the same here. We are progressing into a new culture and know very little of it's history or traditions and yet hubris dictates the new culture must conform to our notions of the world and how words and their definitions have to be.
I don't know seems a little authoritarian to go into someone else's home from a culture you know very little about and start renaming their children.
Bro got offended
A little self-mockery on the contrasts of America would not have hurt you!