So, which is the best mmo out there right now?
Throne and Liberty starts the final test soon.
I hope will end up good too.
@Strevi
That's an impossible question to answer without more context. Also not sure why it is relevant for this discussion. "Best" is subjective for each player. If you really want opinions on this, probably best to start a separate thread.
TLDR: I dont want another game where fights are on a strict scripted timeline, where tanks dont have to think about what they are doing, and dps can just stare at hotbars and execute optimal dps rotations. I want to have to pay attention and be forced to be flexible based on changing encounter conditions, one of those conditions ought to be threat management. Even if the solution is simple such as press threat dumps.
I want encounters where maybe you want a dps to grab, hold, and kite an add because the tanks are too busy with some giant dragon. If the threat mechanic is reduced to "tank presses taunts", then we can NEVER do that.
Threat mechanics allow for more interesting encounter development and game design. I cannot understand, and you have yet to describe why you want to simplify the game, other than you just want dps to go ham all the time. (Which is a silly argument, since you can just give threat mechanics to dps to reduce threat gen, as described above regarding FF14 pre tank nerf)
@Taerrik you did a great job breaking down how FF14 simplified threat, and why people might want something different.
I don't think one design choice is objectively better than the other, they are just different. Some people like managing something like threat, while others don't. Between this thread and the dev discussion, I think the majority of the ashes community likes the idea of threat.
I think the market for modern MMOs is moving away from complicated threat mechanics, as seen in FF14. Ashes can be different, and that's why the devs are asking their community, to figure out if there is a desire for threat mechanics.
So, which is the best mmo out there right now?
Throne and Liberty starts the final test soon.
I hope will end up good too.
The Best MMO is the one that has the maximum number of mechanics you want, assuming you care about mechanics enough to pay attention.
The only reason we're all here is because for Ashes that number is unknown.
For some of us, TL will be the greatest MMO of all time. For some of us, it will be hot garbage.
What we should mostly hope for is that Ashes and TL are not terribly SIMILAR, I think.
I dont even know why we are giving FF14 so much discussion, it's not even an MMORPG
yea I said it. IT IS NOT A REAL MMORPG
Doesn't matter what the game is classified as...it still serves the purpose of providing examples of mechanics that players enjoy or don't enjoy. People have been using all sorts of games for their examples, not sure why you think we can only use MMORPGs to help explain things.
So, which is the best mmo out there right now?
Throne and Liberty starts the final test soon.
I hope will end up good too.
@Strevi
That's an impossible question to answer without more context. Also not sure why it is relevant for this discussion. "Best" is subjective for each player. If you really want opinions on this, probably best to start a separate thread.
The past year I realized that if I want to enjoy a game, I better avoid that game's forum.
But it seems I can get negative opinions also about other games I might try to play.
So after I posted, I was thinking people here could maybe argue more about which mmos are worse than which are better.
While I am excited about TL, the game not being yet released it has the advantage that is hard to say anything bad about it now.
September 12. 2022: Being naked can also be used to bring a skilled artisan to different freeholds... Don't summon family!
Who says FF14 doesnt have challenging content? No one here has said that, so now your the one putting words in peoples mouths.
Don't really care about the rest of what you posted. I am quite done with people confusing their opinions with being right. I'm sure you did all the content and it was so easy and boring and so terrible of an experience because you're just a pro ass gamer that no one else can replicate. That's why you are so high on copium for a game that doesn't exist yet that promises "challenge and hardcore mechanics".
but here, all those people that I put words into their mouths.
MMORPG's overall have more interesting mechanics than FF14 that helps keep users engaged and happy to be on the screen without needing to go "Call of Duty" on the dps rotato in this RADICAL ULLLTTTIMAAAATE WEEEEAAAPPPON RAID! (cool electric music and guitars, ROCK ON!)
The gameplay battle system that you're into is an entirely different beast, it is an accessibility and streamline overload and I bet it is so much fun to a younger audience and especially if it's their first mmorpg.
You will desire more in the future, based off of your open mindedness.
This guy is basically claiming ff14 is nothing but a light show where you smash your head into a rotation and win. "accessibility and streamline overload". Yet I doubt he could do any of the difficult content in the game without countless wipes. We wouldn't know because he didn't play the game.
No MMO should emulate FFXIV. FFXIV is the embodiment of everything wrong with modern MMOs. Its only saving grace is that it isn't quite as bad as modern retail WoW.
Yeah this definitely means that he likes the game and thinks it's got challenging/fun content. Kappa
It is that way now, since the tank nerf.
Before the nerf, you had to worry about single target threat, aoe threat. DPS had cooldowns to manage their own threat, rogues could reduce threat of an ally or increase threat of the tank. Healers spamming overheals would pull off a tank no matter how good the tank was.
Then there was the nerf. Now DPS just do their rotations and dont stand in fire. The tank can do a couple damage combos on stuff and then go afk in between mechanics once he has things where he wants them.
FF14 is an example of a game that had the perfect amount of complexity as a MMO, but because it was too hard for the RPG fanbase that the IP brought with it, every expansion reduces more and more complexity for every role.
And here's one from you. Dps can just do their rotations and dont stand in fire, while tanks hit it a couple of times and go afk inbetween mechanics. This is not true. There are many more things everyone involved has to engage with in order to complete these encounters. You are belittling the design and explaining it in very basic terms so that it sounds boring, generic, and simple. In regards to threat management, yes, that's the my entire point but there is much more to the game that you can engage with other than "do good rotation, don't stand in fire."
It's clear to me that these conversations aren't gonna go anywhere else productive. People lose their minds when you say "anyone" lol. Yet only one person in these past 5 pages was able to manage explaining how it was fun to them. Do I agree with that person? I can agree that strange people can find strange things enjoyable, but I believe most of you just don't really get what I am talking about when I speak on this. I guess that's also my fault for not being better at explaining things. Oh well who cares.
TLDR: I dont want another game where fights are on a strict scripted timeline, where tanks dont have to think about what they are doing, and dps can just stare at hotbars and execute optimal dps rotations. I want to have to pay attention and be forced to be flexible based on changing encounter conditions, one of those conditions ought to be threat management. Even if the solution is simple such as press threat dumps.
I want encounters where maybe you want a dps to grab, hold, and kite an add because the tanks are too busy with some giant dragon. If the threat mechanic is reduced to "tank presses taunts", then we can NEVER do that.
Threat mechanics allow for more interesting encounter development and game design. I cannot understand, and you have yet to describe why you want to simplify the game, other than you just want dps to go ham all the time. (Which is a silly argument, since you can just give threat mechanics to dps to reduce threat gen, as described above regarding FF14 pre tank nerf)
@Taerrik you did a great job breaking down how FF14 simplified threat, and why people might want something different.
I don't think one design choice is objectively better than the other, they are just different. Some people like managing something like threat, while others don't. Between this thread and the dev discussion, I think the majority of the ashes community likes the idea of threat.
I think the market for modern MMOs is moving away from complicated threat mechanics, as seen in FF14. Ashes can be different, and that's why the devs are asking their community, to figure out if there is a desire for threat mechanics.
So, which is the best mmo out there right now?
Throne and Liberty starts the final test soon.
I hope will end up good too.
The Best MMO is the one that has the maximum number of mechanics you want, assuming you care about mechanics enough to pay attention.
The only reason we're all here is because for Ashes that number is unknown.
For some of us, TL will be the greatest MMO of all time. For some of us, it will be hot garbage.
What we should mostly hope for is that Ashes and TL are not terribly SIMILAR, I think.
It's a NCSoft, game in production since 2011, couldnt figure out what direction and identity it wanted. I have very little faith in TL and once again - NCSoft has evolved through the years and doesnt really support their games and quick to shut them down. I got little hopes for TL and waiting for it's microtransaction or gacha reveal that will eventually happen.
{UPK} United Player Killer - All your loot belongs to us.
TLDR: I dont want another game where fights are on a strict scripted timeline, where tanks dont have to think about what they are doing, and dps can just stare at hotbars and execute optimal dps rotations. I want to have to pay attention and be forced to be flexible based on changing encounter conditions, one of those conditions ought to be threat management. Even if the solution is simple such as press threat dumps.
I want encounters where maybe you want a dps to grab, hold, and kite an add because the tanks are too busy with some giant dragon. If the threat mechanic is reduced to "tank presses taunts", then we can NEVER do that.
Threat mechanics allow for more interesting encounter development and game design. I cannot understand, and you have yet to describe why you want to simplify the game, other than you just want dps to go ham all the time. (Which is a silly argument, since you can just give threat mechanics to dps to reduce threat gen, as described above regarding FF14 pre tank nerf)
@Taerrik you did a great job breaking down how FF14 simplified threat, and why people might want something different.
I don't think one design choice is objectively better than the other, they are just different. Some people like managing something like threat, while others don't. Between this thread and the dev discussion, I think the majority of the ashes community likes the idea of threat.
I think the market for modern MMOs is moving away from complicated threat mechanics, as seen in FF14. Ashes can be different, and that's why the devs are asking their community, to figure out if there is a desire for threat mechanics.
So, which is the best mmo out there right now?
Throne and Liberty starts the final test soon.
I hope will end up good too.
The Best MMO is the one that has the maximum number of mechanics you want, assuming you care about mechanics enough to pay attention.
The only reason we're all here is because for Ashes that number is unknown.
For some of us, TL will be the greatest MMO of all time. For some of us, it will be hot garbage.
What we should mostly hope for is that Ashes and TL are not terribly SIMILAR, I think.
It's a NCSoft, game in production since 2011, couldnt figure out what direction and identity it wanted. I have very little faith in TL and once again - NCSoft has evolved through the years and doesnt really support their games and quick to shut them down. I got little hopes for TL and waiting for it's microtransaction or gacha reveal that will eventually happen.
While this is a fair criticism, I feel like bringing it up while talking to people on an Ashes of Creation forum is a little too on the nose, don't you think?
(I think the thread's main line might have ended, and therefore derails are fine with me, if you care @Sathrago lmk and I'll avoid engaging in derailing ways)
TLDR: I dont want another game where fights are on a strict scripted timeline, where tanks dont have to think about what they are doing, and dps can just stare at hotbars and execute optimal dps rotations. I want to have to pay attention and be forced to be flexible based on changing encounter conditions, one of those conditions ought to be threat management. Even if the solution is simple such as press threat dumps.
I want encounters where maybe you want a dps to grab, hold, and kite an add because the tanks are too busy with some giant dragon. If the threat mechanic is reduced to "tank presses taunts", then we can NEVER do that.
Threat mechanics allow for more interesting encounter development and game design. I cannot understand, and you have yet to describe why you want to simplify the game, other than you just want dps to go ham all the time. (Which is a silly argument, since you can just give threat mechanics to dps to reduce threat gen, as described above regarding FF14 pre tank nerf)
@Taerrik you did a great job breaking down how FF14 simplified threat, and why people might want something different.
I don't think one design choice is objectively better than the other, they are just different. Some people like managing something like threat, while others don't. Between this thread and the dev discussion, I think the majority of the ashes community likes the idea of threat.
I think the market for modern MMOs is moving away from complicated threat mechanics, as seen in FF14. Ashes can be different, and that's why the devs are asking their community, to figure out if there is a desire for threat mechanics.
So, which is the best mmo out there right now?
Throne and Liberty starts the final test soon.
I hope will end up good too.
The Best MMO is the one that has the maximum number of mechanics you want, assuming you care about mechanics enough to pay attention.
The only reason we're all here is because for Ashes that number is unknown.
For some of us, TL will be the greatest MMO of all time. For some of us, it will be hot garbage.
What we should mostly hope for is that Ashes and TL are not terribly SIMILAR, I think.
It's a NCSoft, game in production since 2011, couldnt figure out what direction and identity it wanted. I have very little faith in TL and once again - NCSoft has evolved through the years and doesnt really support their games and quick to shut them down. I got little hopes for TL and waiting for it's microtransaction or gacha reveal that will eventually happen.
While this is a fair criticism, I feel like bringing it up while talking to people on an Ashes of Creation forum is a little too on the nose, don't you think?
(I think the thread's main line might have ended, and therefore derails are fine with me, if you care @Sathrago lmk and I'll avoid engaging in derailing ways)
speak for urself i like threat managment in games, adds for some unpredictability in fights if somone pulls agro to break up the mammotomy of doing the same button rotation over and over again. also add a bit of skill for dps when it comes to knowing how much dmg they can output instead of bread dead mashing thing off CD
however threat should be balanced so where and equivalent tiered tank/dps and healer the tank should be easily maintaining agro if every classes is doing there abilities right if the dps outgears tanks though they will more likley pull agro though if they go all out. or if the tank is sloppy and plays poorly and dps plays optimialy he would also pull ago
I had hoped the pve would be too difficult for anyone to be static and do rotation after rotation. The threat mechanics are there to add difficulty. However, when I used to tank I solo dps'd bosses from 100% health to 99% health and at 99% health the dps could nuke the rest of the fight.
They could make tanking more about timing their cc stuns and interrupts, knickknacks etc, positioning mobs away from team etc. Giving tanks inadequate tools will just mean parties try to avoid bringing tanks to content runs they can clear with more dps and kiting.
No MMO should emulate FFXIV. FFXIV is the embodiment of everything wrong with modern MMOs. Its only saving grace is that it isn't quite as bad as modern retail WoW.
Yeah this definitely means that he likes the game and thinks it's got challenging/fun content. Kappa
I think you've got me confused with someone else. It's not just boss fights that's got me down on FFXIV. It's everything. I was duped into trying that game out because people were hyping it up as "saving MMOs" and it was just more of the same stale garbage every other modern MMO is these days when it wasn't actively worse.
Terrible quests.
A "Main Story" questline you HAVE to follow in order to progress that's about how you're the chosen one Warrior of Light, the ONLY one who can save the world from the darkness! (other than the literal million other Warriors of Light running around, but please ignore them)
Purely cosmetic races
Fast travel everywhere, even over tiny distances
Flying mounts everywhere in a game with zero verticality. Even worse, FFXIV doesn't have a seamless world, you have to load into different maps to get anywhere and the flying mounts complete obliterate the illusion they were going for as you fly them down into instance portals.
Resource management is a complete joke, you'd have to actively try to run out of mana and even then you'd only be oom for 3 seconds before it generated back.
Mandatory LFG mechanic that instantly teleports you inside an instance once your party is automatically assembled. You actually don't have the option to enter instance portals yourself, you have to use the LFG.
Dungeons consist of aggroing every single mob in the entire instance up to the boss room and AoEing them down.
A crafting system that I learned was basically pointless because it doesn't make any post-raid gear.
It goes on. I was straight up bamboozled. It was everything bad about modern MMOs and more. I'll admit that I never got to the harder content because nothing was making me want to get that far, but from descriptions people made of it, it's just the typical modern MMO garbage of tacking on a bunch of gimmick mechanics onto bosses, there aren't any broad game mechanics beyond the "rotations."
I don't mean to be rude to you, but that game is something of a sore spot for me because I feel like a sucker.
No MMO should emulate FFXIV. FFXIV is the embodiment of everything wrong with modern MMOs. Its only saving grace is that it isn't quite as bad as modern retail WoW.
Yeah this definitely means that he likes the game and thinks it's got challenging/fun content. Kappa
I think you've got me confused with someone else. It's not just boss fights that's got me down on FFXIV. It's everything. I was duped into trying that game out because people were hyping it up as "saving MMOs" and it was just more of the same stale garbage every other modern MMO is these days when it wasn't actively worse.
Terrible quests.
A "Main Story" questline you HAVE to follow in order to progress that's about how you're the chosen one Warrior of Light, the ONLY one who can save the world from the darkness! (other than the literal million other Warriors of Light running around, but please ignore them)
Purely cosmetic races
Fast travel everywhere, even over tiny distances
Flying mounts everywhere in a game with zero verticality. Even worse, FFXIV doesn't have a seamless world, you have to load into different maps to get anywhere and the flying mounts complete obliterate the illusion they were going for as you fly them down into instance portals.
Resource management is a complete joke, you'd have to actively try to run out of mana and even then you'd only be oom for 3 seconds before it generated back.
Mandatory LFG mechanic that instantly teleports you inside an instance once your party is automatically assembled. You actually don't have the option to enter instance portals yourself, you have to use the LFG.
Dungeons consist of aggroing every single mob in the entire instance up to the boss room and AoEing them down.
A crafting system that I learned was basically pointless because it doesn't make any post-raid gear.
It goes on. I was straight up bamboozled. It was everything bad about modern MMOs and more. I'll admit that I never got to the harder content because nothing was making me want to get that far, but from descriptions people made of it, it's just the typical modern MMO garbage of tacking on a bunch of gimmick mechanics onto bosses, there aren't any broad game mechanics beyond the "rotations."
I don't mean to be rude to you, but that game is something of a sore spot for me because I feel like a sucker.
Given that FFXIV is on 1st position right now https://mmo-population.com/activity
I hope AoC will stay on 40 to avoid attracting voices who want fast travel and all no risk activities.
September 12. 2022: Being naked can also be used to bring a skilled artisan to different freeholds... Don't summon family!
This guy is basically claiming ff14 is nothing but a light show where you smash your head into a rotation and win. "accessibility and streamline overload". Yet I doubt he could do any of the difficult content in the game without countless wipes. We wouldn't know because he didn't play the game.
There's no point referencing my gaming difficulties for over 20 years, so I'll just explain what's going on in a rough manner with FF14 and more traditional MMORPG's in general (that aren't modern party matching WoW).
A good amount of games, Japanese ones especially, generally love to make "challenge" in a very traditional way that is tailored for all age groups.
These more traditional methods usually include bizarre conditions and usually they provide a number of simple choices to the player almost instantly, so when you're playing a Mario game and on a difficult stage with a shifting map you'll bump into a bizarre condition and your left with pretty simple choices that are apparent to you, such as jumping on the mobs to platform you over, avoid the mobs and aim for a very small platform, use your tail to fly over them and avoid the roof with spikes etc.
This is what FF14 essentially does, it makes many conditions over the course of a 20+ min raid to the players and the solutions to these conditions are within a number of simple choices and the choices you make are simple in result "it is the wrong choice, we're wiped" > "it is the correct choice, we can move on" > "this choice is crazy and we've lost a lot for it".
Am I basically saying FF14 players are playing a tailored Mario co-op game, with more core mechanics and a social hub that is glossed over with a unique FF theme, story and simple questing (one that, as an FF7,8,9,10 fan I'm not overly fond of but hey...), yes.
MMORPG's themselves are traditionally about you existing in a world and you're met with a huge number of complex challenges that naturally challenge an adults intelligence over the course of the entire game.
You often bump into hurdles with other players with economy, rares, guild goals and conquesting and the personal choices you make to grow into have a standing on that platform of "success" and success can be a wide array of things that is much more complex than "I've completed the Ultimate Weapon raid part 5!".
PvE in these games aren't often made with conditions and choices like a traditional single player/co-op game largely because it's not the games focus to do so, the games focus is to have you as a seasoned hunter that wants to survive and prosper and then relate that to your standings and trades with other players in a complex system outside of PvE of choices that end up in "success".
You need to not only reflect on this but also understand that, when it comes to gameplay in traditional and/or harder mmorpg's, that you need to make PvE to include many factors and potential PvP factors is a big part of it but also how it translates to the overall enjoyment factor of progressing in a game where its entire system outside of gameplay is a very complex challenge.
I had hoped the pve would be too difficult for anyone to be static and do rotation after rotation. The threat mechanics are there to add difficulty. However, when I used to tank I solo dps'd bosses from 100% health to 99% health and at 99% health the dps could nuke the rest of the fight.
They could make tanking more about timing their cc stuns and interrupts, knickknacks etc, positioning mobs away from team etc. Giving tanks inadequate tools will just mean parties try to avoid bringing tanks to content runs they can clear with more dps and kiting.
I'm hopeful we get non static pve. It would be good if the pve cc's us and makes us move around. The tank can obviously position and reposition a boss but static tanking can be a bore.
Given that FFXIV is on 1st position right now https://mmo-population.com/activity
I hope AoC will stay on 40 to avoid attracting voices who want fast travel and all no risk activities.
SMFH.... I can't believe this is your arguement.
1) FF14 isn't an MMORPG
2) That list convers MMO is general - see Planetside 2, world of tanks FFS....
3) Inaccurate number... Everquest (1999) aka p99 - 23k?!?!?! LOOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.. I play on P99, currently as of this post we got 900 on green, 650 on blue, 50 on red.... total of 1600 players online.. Peak that number will be 2.5-3k later on the day.
There isnt a single good mmo in the last decade or more... everything has been complete shit and out of all those shit, FF14, WoW, OSRS pile of shit stinks the least.
Lastly - the furry community doesnt care for mmorpg or mmo. They want their waifu furry and to RP with others - 50% of FF14 falls into this category - Introverts who are down bad. They are just equally the same as the neckbeards basement dweller virgins.
{UPK} United Player Killer - All your loot belongs to us.
Given that FFXIV is on 1st position right now https://mmo-population.com/activity
I hope AoC will stay on 40 to avoid attracting voices who want fast travel and all no risk activities.
SMFH.... I can't believe this is your arguement.
1) FF14 isn't an MMORPG
2) That list convers MMO is general - see Planetside 2, world of tanks FFS....
3) Inaccurate number... Everquest (1999) aka p99 - 23k?!?!?! LOOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.. I play on P99, currently as of this post we got 900 on green, 650 on blue, 50 on red.... total of 1600 players online.. Peak that number will be 2.5-3k later on the day.
There isnt a single good mmo in the last decade or more... everything has been complete shit and out of all those shit, FF14, WoW, OSRS pile of shit stinks the least.
Lastly - the furry community doesnt care for mmorpg or mmo. They want their waifu furry and to RP with others - 50% of FF14 falls into this category - Introverts who are down bad. They are just equally the same as the neckbeards basement dweller virgins.
Good reply, I think it was worth posting that link to get this
September 12. 2022: Being naked can also be used to bring a skilled artisan to different freeholds... Don't summon family!
Given that FFXIV is on 1st position right now https://mmo-population.com/activity
I hope AoC will stay on 40 to avoid attracting voices who want fast travel and all no risk activities.
That website says WoW is at the top. It also includes non-MMOs.
Though, those population numbers are all pathetic, especially compared to WoW's 12 million peak. If anything, I think that proves that MMORPGs are a dying genre. This is one of the reasons *not* to follow modern MMO trends. You could argue that "the current MMO market wants and expects X, Y and Z," but that's ignoring the fact that this market is heavily on the decline and approaching death.
If you want your new MMO to be a big success, it should strive to be more than just "another one."
Comments
yea I said it. IT IS NOT A REAL MMORPG
Yeah, I've stayed quiet and read all threads, quite amused by all of it.
I should have grabbed some popcorn...
@Strevi
That's an impossible question to answer without more context. Also not sure why it is relevant for this discussion. "Best" is subjective for each player. If you really want opinions on this, probably best to start a separate thread.
The Best MMO is the one that has the maximum number of mechanics you want, assuming you care about mechanics enough to pay attention.
The only reason we're all here is because for Ashes that number is unknown.
For some of us, TL will be the greatest MMO of all time. For some of us, it will be hot garbage.
What we should mostly hope for is that Ashes and TL are not terribly SIMILAR, I think.
Doesn't matter what the game is classified as...it still serves the purpose of providing examples of mechanics that players enjoy or don't enjoy. People have been using all sorts of games for their examples, not sure why you think we can only use MMORPGs to help explain things.
But it seems I can get negative opinions also about other games I might try to play.
So after I posted, I was thinking people here could maybe argue more about which mmos are worse than which are better.
While I am excited about TL, the game not being yet released it has the advantage that is hard to say anything bad about it now.
Don't really care about the rest of what you posted. I am quite done with people confusing their opinions with being right. I'm sure you did all the content and it was so easy and boring and so terrible of an experience because you're just a pro ass gamer that no one else can replicate. That's why you are so high on copium for a game that doesn't exist yet that promises "challenge and hardcore mechanics".
but here, all those people that I put words into their mouths.
This guy is basically claiming ff14 is nothing but a light show where you smash your head into a rotation and win. "accessibility and streamline overload". Yet I doubt he could do any of the difficult content in the game without countless wipes. We wouldn't know because he didn't play the game.
Yeah this definitely means that he likes the game and thinks it's got challenging/fun content. Kappa And here's one from you. Dps can just do their rotations and dont stand in fire, while tanks hit it a couple of times and go afk inbetween mechanics. This is not true. There are many more things everyone involved has to engage with in order to complete these encounters. You are belittling the design and explaining it in very basic terms so that it sounds boring, generic, and simple. In regards to threat management, yes, that's the my entire point but there is much more to the game that you can engage with other than "do good rotation, don't stand in fire."
It's clear to me that these conversations aren't gonna go anywhere else productive. People lose their minds when you say "anyone" lol. Yet only one person in these past 5 pages was able to manage explaining how it was fun to them. Do I agree with that person? I can agree that strange people can find strange things enjoyable, but I believe most of you just don't really get what I am talking about when I speak on this. I guess that's also my fault for not being better at explaining things. Oh well who cares.
It's a NCSoft, game in production since 2011, couldnt figure out what direction and identity it wanted. I have very little faith in TL and once again - NCSoft has evolved through the years and doesnt really support their games and quick to shut them down. I got little hopes for TL and waiting for it's microtransaction or gacha reveal that will eventually happen.
While this is a fair criticism, I feel like bringing it up while talking to people on an Ashes of Creation forum is a little too on the nose, don't you think?
(I think the thread's main line might have ended, and therefore derails are fine with me, if you care @Sathrago lmk and I'll avoid engaging in derailing ways)
All good. go for it.
however threat should be balanced so where and equivalent tiered tank/dps and healer the tank should be easily maintaining agro if every classes is doing there abilities right if the dps outgears tanks though they will more likley pull agro though if they go all out. or if the tank is sloppy and plays poorly and dps plays optimialy he would also pull ago
They could make tanking more about timing their cc stuns and interrupts, knickknacks etc, positioning mobs away from team etc. Giving tanks inadequate tools will just mean parties try to avoid bringing tanks to content runs they can clear with more dps and kiting.
Terrible quests.
A "Main Story" questline you HAVE to follow in order to progress that's about how you're the chosen one Warrior of Light, the ONLY one who can save the world from the darkness! (other than the literal million other Warriors of Light running around, but please ignore them)
Purely cosmetic races
Fast travel everywhere, even over tiny distances
Flying mounts everywhere in a game with zero verticality. Even worse, FFXIV doesn't have a seamless world, you have to load into different maps to get anywhere and the flying mounts complete obliterate the illusion they were going for as you fly them down into instance portals.
Resource management is a complete joke, you'd have to actively try to run out of mana and even then you'd only be oom for 3 seconds before it generated back.
Mandatory LFG mechanic that instantly teleports you inside an instance once your party is automatically assembled. You actually don't have the option to enter instance portals yourself, you have to use the LFG.
Dungeons consist of aggroing every single mob in the entire instance up to the boss room and AoEing them down.
A crafting system that I learned was basically pointless because it doesn't make any post-raid gear.
It goes on. I was straight up bamboozled. It was everything bad about modern MMOs and more. I'll admit that I never got to the harder content because nothing was making me want to get that far, but from descriptions people made of it, it's just the typical modern MMO garbage of tacking on a bunch of gimmick mechanics onto bosses, there aren't any broad game mechanics beyond the "rotations."
I don't mean to be rude to you, but that game is something of a sore spot for me because I feel like a sucker.
Given that FFXIV is on 1st position right now
https://mmo-population.com/activity
I hope AoC will stay on 40 to avoid attracting voices who want fast travel and all no risk activities.
There's no point referencing my gaming difficulties for over 20 years, so I'll just explain what's going on in a rough manner with FF14 and more traditional MMORPG's in general (that aren't modern party matching WoW).
A good amount of games, Japanese ones especially, generally love to make "challenge" in a very traditional way that is tailored for all age groups.
These more traditional methods usually include bizarre conditions and usually they provide a number of simple choices to the player almost instantly, so when you're playing a Mario game and on a difficult stage with a shifting map you'll bump into a bizarre condition and your left with pretty simple choices that are apparent to you, such as jumping on the mobs to platform you over, avoid the mobs and aim for a very small platform, use your tail to fly over them and avoid the roof with spikes etc.
This is what FF14 essentially does, it makes many conditions over the course of a 20+ min raid to the players and the solutions to these conditions are within a number of simple choices and the choices you make are simple in result "it is the wrong choice, we're wiped" > "it is the correct choice, we can move on" > "this choice is crazy and we've lost a lot for it".
Am I basically saying FF14 players are playing a tailored Mario co-op game, with more core mechanics and a social hub that is glossed over with a unique FF theme, story and simple questing (one that, as an FF7,8,9,10 fan I'm not overly fond of but hey...), yes.
MMORPG's themselves are traditionally about you existing in a world and you're met with a huge number of complex challenges that naturally challenge an adults intelligence over the course of the entire game.
You often bump into hurdles with other players with economy, rares, guild goals and conquesting and the personal choices you make to grow into have a standing on that platform of "success" and success can be a wide array of things that is much more complex than "I've completed the Ultimate Weapon raid part 5!".
PvE in these games aren't often made with conditions and choices like a traditional single player/co-op game largely because it's not the games focus to do so, the games focus is to have you as a seasoned hunter that wants to survive and prosper and then relate that to your standings and trades with other players in a complex system outside of PvE of choices that end up in "success".
You need to not only reflect on this but also understand that, when it comes to gameplay in traditional and/or harder mmorpg's, that you need to make PvE to include many factors and potential PvP factors is a big part of it but also how it translates to the overall enjoyment factor of progressing in a game where its entire system outside of gameplay is a very complex challenge.
I'm hopeful we get non static pve. It would be good if the pve cc's us and makes us move around. The tank can obviously position and reposition a boss but static tanking can be a bore.
SMFH.... I can't believe this is your arguement.
1) FF14 isn't an MMORPG
2) That list convers MMO is general - see Planetside 2, world of tanks FFS....
3) Inaccurate number... Everquest (1999) aka p99 - 23k?!?!?! LOOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.. I play on P99, currently as of this post we got 900 on green, 650 on blue, 50 on red.... total of 1600 players online.. Peak that number will be 2.5-3k later on the day.
There isnt a single good mmo in the last decade or more... everything has been complete shit and out of all those shit, FF14, WoW, OSRS pile of shit stinks the least.
Lastly - the furry community doesnt care for mmorpg or mmo. They want their waifu furry and to RP with others - 50% of FF14 falls into this category - Introverts who are down bad. They are just equally the same as the neckbeards basement dweller virgins.
Good reply, I think it was worth posting that link to get this
Though, those population numbers are all pathetic, especially compared to WoW's 12 million peak. If anything, I think that proves that MMORPGs are a dying genre. This is one of the reasons *not* to follow modern MMO trends. You could argue that "the current MMO market wants and expects X, Y and Z," but that's ignoring the fact that this market is heavily on the decline and approaching death.
If you want your new MMO to be a big success, it should strive to be more than just "another one."