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pay to win headstart

ChicagoChicago Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
i came across a video the other day stating that early backers will either have a 1 or 2 day head start before servers launch? i am fine with intrepid selling monthly cosmetics and anything that doesn't actually affect gameplay but this in my opinion is straight pay to win? i cant find any other information on it is anyone able to confirm this or hopefully i am wrong jaja
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Comments

  • You can only do that on headstart servers and your progress will be limited.
    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Head_start
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    You can choose a non headstart server if you are worried.
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  • I would wager the headstart servers will decrease the day 1 player load significantly enough while also increasing them profits enough that for IS it is more than worth it in the interest of providing the best launch experience to as many people as possible.
  • Voxtrium wrote: »
    I would wager the headstart servers will decrease the day 1 player load significantly enough while also increasing them profits enough that for IS it is more than worth it in the interest of providing the best launch experience to as many people as possible.
    Wasn't headstart only available to the early supporters? I doubt that a few thousand people will make a dent in a potentially multimillion playerbase at launch.
  • HinotoriHinotori Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Gotta get on that headstart with the crew to beat the queue.

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  • VoxtriumVoxtrium Member
    edited February 2023
    NiKr wrote: »
    Voxtrium wrote: »
    I would wager the headstart servers will decrease the day 1 player load significantly enough while also increasing them profits enough that for IS it is more than worth it in the interest of providing the best launch experience to as many people as possible.
    Wasn't headstart only available to the early supporters? I doubt that a few thousand people will make a dent in a potentially multimillion playerbase at launch.

    I was wrong
  • ShadonSolShadonSol Moderator, Member, Alpha One
    edited February 2023
    Voxtrium wrote: »
    NiKr wrote: »
    Voxtrium wrote: »
    I would wager the headstart servers will decrease the day 1 player load significantly enough while also increasing them profits enough that for IS it is more than worth it in the interest of providing the best launch experience to as many people as possible.
    Wasn't headstart only available to the early supporters? I doubt that a few thousand people will make a dent in a potentially multimillion playerbase at launch.

    People who purchased the kickstarter package and alpha 1 (I think) get 3 days, the alpha two (2), beta get (1), everyone else standard, we know there are atleast 100k alpha players, maybe half those will use that headstart, gonna end up with way over a 100k by the end of alpha though.

    Early access was limited to everyone who purchased the founder pack (or above) during the Kickstarter or summer crowd funding campaign. The current packs in the shop don't grant access to the head start servers anymore. Last we've been told is that the early access starts 1-2 days before launch for everyone eligible.
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  • JahlonJahlon Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha One
    Voxtrium wrote: »
    NiKr wrote: »
    Voxtrium wrote: »
    I would wager the headstart servers will decrease the day 1 player load significantly enough while also increasing them profits enough that for IS it is more than worth it in the interest of providing the best launch experience to as many people as possible.
    Wasn't headstart only available to the early supporters? I doubt that a few thousand people will make a dent in a potentially multimillion playerbase at launch.

    People who purchased the kickstarter package and alpha 1 (I think) get 3 days, the alpha two (2), beta get (1), everyone else standard, we know there are atleast 100k alpha players, maybe half those will use that headstart, gonna end up with way over a 100k by the end of alpha though.


    The only people who get Headstart are the Kickstarter Backers. No other customers get Headstart.

    Before upgrades, there were 3,285 Kickstarter Backers who have 2 day head start, and an additional 4,698 backers who have 1 day head start.

    There will be 1 or 2 Head start servers per region (NA/EU/OCE). Having head start doesn't allow you to go to any server, just one of the designated head start servers.

    So while it is P2W (its an advantage you paid for) it won't affect the overall game as it will be limited to specific servers.
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    Make sure to check out Ashes 101
  • Y'all are right, although reading up on headstart servers they did say the node system will be deactivated, so that minimizes the impact of a headstart server past basic resource gathering and farming.
  • I was kinda sad after realizing I missed out on the head start, but after reading the wiki...

    Looks good to me.
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    discord.gg/pFCdaWM - Building a community across multiple games,
    including Ashes of Creation! Looking for members of all kinds to really pour
    our all into the Alpha 2, Betas, and then launch.
  • Chicago wrote: »
    i came across a video the other day stating that early backers will either have a 1 or 2 day head start before servers launch? i am fine with intrepid selling monthly cosmetics and anything that doesn't actually affect gameplay but this in my opinion is straight pay to win? i cant find any other information on it is anyone able to confirm this or hopefully i am wrong jaja

    At best it can be considered an advantage imo. Sure being able to start 1-2 days before everyone else will make a difference depending on the time one commits during this headstart. But what you can actually do during that time can hardly be considered "winning". You cannot establish a Node beyond Lv 3 (source: Wiki; chapter "Node advancement") according to current information, which means a small group with a headstart can possibly start out with one mayor in place by the time of the "public" start. They can however not maintain that position in any other way as the "late players"; they have no access to unique content that will be unavailable to them and they won't be given anything that within the game system grants them a distinct advantage.

    But I get it. I won't be going on a headstart server either, I want to be there when the land is still untouched.
    The answer is probably >>> HERE <<<
  • Kilion wrote: »
    I won't be going on a headstart server either, I want to be there when the land is still untouched.

    Same. I suspect the vast majority will want to start on a fresh server that doesn't have HS players. It will be interesting to see if the HS servers manage to thrive after launch, or if they are avoided by new players and suffer from under-population.


  • mcnasty wrote: »
    Same. I suspect the vast majority will want to start on a fresh server that doesn't have HS players. It will be interesting to see if the HS servers manage to thrive after launch, or if they are avoided by new players and suffer from under-population.
    I'd bet they'll be the ones that thrive the most, because while some people will avoid them due to "omg I'm like so behind everyone waahhh", a ton of people would not care about that shit and they'd instead just see a less populated server that has either no queues or just small ones. And with that server being populated by people who don't care about the "race" as much - it'll be more successful in just existing and everyone just enjoying themselves on it.
  • bloodprophetbloodprophet Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Long term a day or two will make no difference.
    The tiny amount of xp and low level mats will have zero effect after a year.
    Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
  • Taleof2CitiesTaleof2Cities Member
    edited February 2023
    mcnasty wrote: »
    Kilion wrote: »
    I won't be going on a headstart server either, I want to be there when the land is still untouched.

    Same. I suspect the vast majority will want to start on a fresh server that doesn't have HS players. It will be interesting to see if the HS servers manage to thrive after launch, or if they are avoided by new players and suffer from under-population.

    As @bloodprophet said, there won't be any difference after a few days ... other than the overreaction and speculation ahead of launch.

    Happens every new MMO.
  • I wouldnt worry to much about it tbh since they have head start servers so u can avoid those if ur not interested in being behind from the get go.

    nodes are so deactivated which seems to be a factor for progression since the mobs level up with node progression to a degree so they might even be level locked to a degree if there no high level mobs due to this however were not sure how much oof an impact mobs levels have around nodes atm.

    i guess the biggest thing for headstart would be starting a gold grind to try and secure a house in a node when it levels up early on but again you can just not join a headstart server to avoid that :)

  • Long term a day or two will make no difference.
    The tiny amount of xp and low level mats will have zero effect after a year.

    the only big thing i see is getting headstart on gold to buy a node property cause if u get in early and the node advances up your property gets bigger and bigger howerver it also a bit of a gamble too since ur node might not hot level 5+ for the mansions and things
  • Taleof2CitiesTaleof2Cities Member
    edited February 2023
    Veeshan wrote: »
    Long term a day or two will make no difference.
    The tiny amount of xp and low level mats will have zero effect after a year.

    the only big thing i see is getting headstart on gold to buy a node property cause if u get in early and the node advances up your property gets bigger and bigger howerver it also a bit of a gamble too since ur node might not hot level 5+ for the mansions and things

    Another overreaction.

    Nodes could be destroyed and rise again as frequently as once a month (doesn't always happen, but could happen). Nodes can also suffer from atrophy if mismanaged.

    Over time, however, players will have many opportunities to get enough gold to obtain housing.

    If getting the "first house" is important to you, that's a great goal.

    But, that doesn't lock everyone else out in the future.
  • unknownsystemerrorunknownsystemerror Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Don't forget the confirmed server merge mechanics already proposed. The tears when someone's node is merged into a headstart will be even more delicious.
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  • Let's not forget that you can catch up on 1 or 2 days head start by just playing double as long as you normally would in 1 day ;) Yes, you may lose out on cheap materials because it's a ghost town on the auction house, but I'd prefer to startbwith the MASSES because then I know I don't start on a dead af server, praying it fills so I don't have to MTX to swap servers.
  • mcnasty wrote: »
    Kilion wrote: »
    I won't be going on a headstart server either, I want to be there when the land is still untouched.

    Same. I suspect the vast majority will want to start on a fresh server that doesn't have HS players. It will be interesting to see if the HS servers manage to thrive after launch, or if they are avoided by new players and suffer from under-population.


    I guess they will pick up numbers after the first days or weeks as by then it won't matter anymore where you start.
    The answer is probably >>> HERE <<<
  • ShadowVenShadowVen Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    It wouldn't be PTW for those who all start early. To remove the PTW aspect just dont choose that server if you dont have early access.

    Neurath wrote: »
    You can choose a non headstart server if you are worried.

    This.

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  • ChicagoChicago Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    ShadowVen wrote: »
    It wouldn't be PTW for those who all start early. To remove the PTW aspect just dont choose that server if you dont have early access.

    Neurath wrote: »
    You can choose a non headstart server if you are worried.

    well obviously i will not be choosing that server, but its not the fact that they get the headstart that bothered me its the fact that its been stated that no pay to win will exist within ashes of creation, even if its the smallest level its still by definition pay to win, for example, you get access to a server for two days before anyone else has a chance, after probably a year of alpha/beta tests the people on this server will know the game inside out for the starting experience its possible to get rare items, rare spawns, and most likely hit level 15-20 within this time frame, im not sure how the game mechanics work as we have not seen much of the game but say for example a mob is lvl 20, on a 3 day spawn timer, that has a 30% chance to drop x item, obviously the people starting early have a huge advantage to getting this,

    im expecting these servers to be mostly dead servers regardless as no one is going to willingly choose a headstart server without the headstart unless it becomes beneficial to do so with queue times maybe

    my point however is moving forward this game is advertised as 0 zero nada pay wo win atributes, i dont want things to just start slipping into the game, a day headstart there cosmetics here and all of a sudden theres level boosts and ptw weapons, either way just my thoughts
  • Chicago wrote: »
    my point however is moving forward this game is advertised as 0 zero nada pay wo win atributes, i dont want things to just start slipping into the game, a day headstart there cosmetics here and all of a sudden theres level boosts and ptw weapons, either way just my thoughts
    Except both headstart and cosmetics were pretty much in the game from the very start. So it's not like they suddenly came out of nowhere and draw a direct line to "this game will 100% become p2w because of this shit".
  • ChicagoChicago Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    NiKr wrote: »
    Chicago wrote: »
    my point however is moving forward this game is advertised as 0 zero nada pay wo win atributes, i dont want things to just start slipping into the game, a day headstart there cosmetics here and all of a sudden theres level boosts and ptw weapons, either way just my thoughts
    Except both headstart and cosmetics were pretty much in the game from the very start. So it's not like they suddenly came out of nowhere and draw a direct line to "this game will 100% become p2w because of this shit".

    Well im not saying it draws a line im just saying stating a game will have 0 pay to win features whilst having pay to win features is concerning
  • Chicago wrote: »
    Well im not saying it draws a line im just saying stating a game will have 0 pay to win features whilst having pay to win features is concerning
    These days the meaning of p2w is quite blurred. And I'd say that a few days of a headstart on predetermined servers and some cosmetics is one of the least p2w ways to monetize the game. If anyone disagrees with that to such a point that they don't want to play the game cause Steven "lied to them" about p2w - that's their choice and they're free to do so (not saying you're like that).
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Most of us will be fast as fuck anyway. We'll have knowledge from Alphas and Betas. Unless the game changes between beta 2 and launch then 2 days headstart with limited capacity won't mean much.
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  • i had the same concerns about the head start, but not anymore. sure some people might make a lil bit of extra money the first couple of days in that one server, but I'm sure it will be more than possible to catch up or even make more than them if you focus on making money early on.

    I'm not concerned anymore because the head start wont be for all servers. also, the node and housing system will be disabled. i don't expect those players to gain a huge leveling advantage, since leveling in aoc will be completely dependant on node progression. something along the lines of being level 10-15 and still fighting level 1 mobs :D
  • novercalisnovercalis Member, Founder, Kickstarter
    edited March 2023
    Kickstart backer here - I am sure I am not alone in the fact that, Headstart means nothing to me.

    Will I join a HS server? yeah.. for 1 day.. guess what, most of my guildies dont have HS and will be rolling in a non-HS server.

    So there are plenty of 1-2 day headstarters who will ultimately go into a NON-HS server to stick with the guilds.

    Most of these current Alpha Guilds arent even Kickstarters and wont have Headstart options...
    {UPK} United Player Killer - All your loot belongs to us.
  • KilionKilion Member
    edited March 2023
    Chicago wrote: »
    well obviously i will not be choosing that server,

    Being able to make that decision just by itself to me makes it not P2W. The "advantage" you gain from the head start becomes completely irrelevant just by switching to a server to where it does not apply. It is not a continues advantage by any stretch.
    Chicago wrote: »
    its the fact that its been stated that no pay to win will exist within ashes of creation, even if its the smallest level its still by definition pay to win

    Okay then let's take a look a the definition(s) of P2W and also look at the currently available information regarding the true scope of what we are talking about here:
    (Edit - as I now looked at the Wiki myself I honestly can't be bothered to check out definitions for Pay-To-Win anymore, I think the argument falls apart just by looking at the Wiki.)

    First let's go to the Wiki and see what we can gather about headstarts. From the Wiki: "The number of head start servers is estimated to be three. This is subject to change."
    Taking the expectation that we might get 1mio players in Europe and North America each and assuming that we get 3 head start servers for each zones that would affect 6 (3%) of all 200 servers to begin with. Of course we would need to wait for number like total Alpha 2 and Beta sales to accurately gauge the number of total players but you get the idea. It would also be interesting to find out how many people actually could have this headstart. Around 19'600 players Kickstarter backers (source). So if they evenly distribute over 3 servers they make up less than 50% of the population meaning with enough dedication other players will be able to revert every decision these people have made. And that's only assuming that for once every backer is still interested in this game at launch and everyone is playing an equal amount of time. And I have a feeling that a lot of hardcore gamers who did not have the funding to fund this on Kickstarter would like a challenge like this.

    And probably the most important note on the topic I found on the wiki is this:

    The game functionality is limited during the head start period so that players cannot decide the world-scape earlier than others.

    During the head start, the node system will be deactivated.

    The core mechanic of the game cannot be accessed during the head start. The main source for quests, story progressing, zone development, POI discovery & expansion, solidifying political power is simply not there.
    Any level advantage one can gain would have to come from basically grinding. Which is a HUGE slow down on all aspects of character progression.

    Basically with just this information the worry of this being P2W should be gone from your mind, @Chicago
    The answer is probably >>> HERE <<<
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