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How about damaging gear in the inventory too upon death?

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    Arya_YesheArya_Yeshe Member
    edited April 2023
    Neurath wrote: »
    You wouldnt waste our time with crap if you understood the vision. The whole idea to venture far and wide whilst cycling armour sets dependant on challenge seems foreign to you. Why you believe there needs to be a stealth tax is beyond me. Much of what you suggest elsewhere revolves around stealth taxes too.

    The vision is risk-reward on a personal and group level, being the greatest risks on group level only

    That's the vision and having to spend on a bit materials on damaged gear in the inventory is a tiny risk compared to losing all your homes, freeholds, warehouses and node

    Anyway, if you only come to thread to trash it while other people talk, then there's no reason to be here, there's many other threads and you can start your own threads too
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
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    Arya_YesheArya_Yeshe Member
    edited April 2023
    Using your character for hidding gear in the inventory and avoid the penalties is not intended gameplay by any means

    That is morally equivalent to using exploits
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
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    MrPocketsMrPockets Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Unsure if you have been keeping up with this persons post but everything revolves around making the game experience as terrible as possible for people. Like survival element level minus the fun. Granted IS knows what they are doing and will shift through the good and bad feedback.

    Let me clarify what I meant.
    I was specifically responding to this
    Neurath wrote: »
    Sometimes I feel you just want to fuck the game up with your suggestions.

    I don't think the OP is INTENTIALLY trying to "fuck the game up". I find this (and other similar suggestions) in line with the core risk vs reward design philosophy.

    I think it is pretty obvious when an idea is in line with the core design principles, but that doesn't mean that idea is a good fit for the game. It ALSO doesn't mean the person proposing the idea is trying to "sabotage" the game. I see no benefit in attacking people who are just trying to share their ideas with the community.
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    SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    It's not about hiding gear in inventory. It's about your obsession with gear degradation. You either want to tax nodes based on gear degradation or tax the whole player base based on gear degradation.

    You can butter it up, roll it in and bake it but you come across as the gear degradation carebear.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
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    Arya_YesheArya_Yeshe Member
    edited April 2023
    MrPockets wrote: »
    I think it is pretty obvious when an idea is in line with the core design principles, but that doesn't mean that idea is a good fit for the game. It ALSO doesn't mean the person proposing the idea is trying to "sabotage" the game. I see no benefit in attacking people who are just trying to share their ideas with the community.

    Exactly

    Also, they keep stalking me and making personal attacks and they kept reporting me too
    I will have to start frequently reporting them and if the mods don't do anything, I will have to send this to Steven

    This thread is pretty much in the vision, if they don't like this, they can state their opinions and let other people talk in peace

    I'm not kidding around, they keep comming at me for months already and they do not discuss the point of the discussion, they bypass the discussion and come right at my throat. They try to invalidate me as a person in the attempt to destroy the entire discussion in one go
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
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    SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I haven't reported you once or blocked you in fact. I'm far more selective with my precision strikes. You can't counter the points and must resort to actual attacks. You are quick to call everyone a carebear but can't be called a carebear in kind lol.

    I've been on point in the thread so I have no recourse.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
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    Arya_YesheArya_Yeshe Member
    edited April 2023
    Neurath wrote: »
    I haven't reported you once or blocked you in fact. I'm far more selective with my precision strikes. You can't counter the points and must resort to actual attacks. You are quick to call everyone a carebear but can't be called a carebear in kind lol.

    I've been on point in the thread so I have no recourse.

    I never personally attack anyone, have I ever called you a carebear?
    No

    By the way carebearing is a philosophy, a style of gameplay... and recently it's you people who bring this up and it's not even me
    Neurath wrote: »
    You wouldnt waste our time with crap if you understood the vision.

    There's your personal attack right there, saying outloud with not shame that I can't understand basic things, which is comming here just to call me stupid

    Just because you are dancing around words and invisible lines, it doesn't mean we don't understand what you are doing here

    That's the person I am?
    I only bring crap
    I only want to destroy
    I only want to attack
    I never understand anything
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
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    Mag7spy wrote: »
    she gives some really bad ideas that would ruin the game, or doesn't understand all the concepts of the game.

    Unsure if you have been keeping up with this persons post but everything revolves around making the game experience as terrible as possible for people

    Another personal attack
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
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    SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    So are you agreeing you waste our time with crap? Because otherwise I fail to see the impact or the sensationalism. Personally, I'd have followed Mr pockets and brought up the swearing part of the thread.

    Frankly, I've either maintained the thin line in this thread or I haven't but so far you claim I haven't with no evidence to corroborate the aspects. Either way, I still don't like the idea and I still don't see your ability to sway the idea in your favour.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
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    MrPocketsMrPockets Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Neurath wrote: »
    Either way, I still don't like the idea and I still don't see your ability to sway the idea in your favour.

    This is something we can verify. Let's go back and re-read this thread.....

    Results:
    This doesn't include OP, and some posts I considered neutral, since their stance wasn't obvious. (personally I am more in favor of the idea than opposed)
    For: 5
    Against: 3

    In general, the people in favor of this idea, gravitate towards the economy or risk/reward side(s) of the argument, whereas those opposed argue about high repair costs for players who want to have multiple gear sets.

    So it seems the idea already IS in @Arya_Yeshe favor. *shrug*
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    @MrPockets thank you for bringing level headed arguments, that's the good stuff

    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
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    AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    MrPockets wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    Either way, I still don't like the idea and I still don't see your ability to sway the idea in your favour.

    This is something we can verify. Let's go back and re-read this thread.....

    Results:
    This doesn't include OP, and some posts I considered neutral, since their stance wasn't obvious. (personally I am more in favor of the idea than opposed)
    For: 5
    Against: 3

    In general, the people in favor of this idea, gravitate towards the economy or risk/reward side(s) of the argument, whereas those opposed argue about high repair costs for players who want to have multiple gear sets.

    So it seems the idea already IS in @Arya_Yeshe favor. *shrug*

    Updating numbers to:

    For: 5
    Against: 9

    Let me know if you need me to have each of the additional 6 post individually or if you'll accept that I just 'count as 6' for your count in this topic.
    Sorry, my native language is Erlang.
    
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    CawwCaww Member
    This comment is for the Monthly Forum Moderators Report to key dev's;

    Please do not damage/degrade gear held in your bag inventory upon death.

    As an aside, New World (I know...) did this and then decided it was too unpopular and after about a year or more (estimating), stopped doing this.

    Thank you for your attention to this matter.
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    NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    edited April 2023
    Arya_Yeshe wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    she gives some really bad ideas that would ruin the game, or doesn't understand all the concepts of the game.

    Unsure if you have been keeping up with this persons post but everything revolves around making the game experience as terrible as possible for people

    Another personal attack

    That isnt a personal attack.

    What part of your person (physical person or personality) is this attacking?

    What it is, is an attack on the ideas you have presented.

    Attacks on ideas have a very specific term; debate.
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    NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Azherae wrote: »
    MrPockets wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    Either way, I still don't like the idea and I still don't see your ability to sway the idea in your favour.

    This is something we can verify. Let's go back and re-read this thread.....

    Results:
    This doesn't include OP, and some posts I considered neutral, since their stance wasn't obvious. (personally I am more in favor of the idea than opposed)
    For: 5
    Against: 3

    In general, the people in favor of this idea, gravitate towards the economy or risk/reward side(s) of the argument, whereas those opposed argue about high repair costs for players who want to have multiple gear sets.

    So it seems the idea already IS in @Arya_Yeshe favor. *shrug*

    Updating numbers to:

    For: 5
    Against: 9

    Let me know if you need me to have each of the additional 6 post individually or if you'll accept that I just 'count as 6' for your count in this topic.

    To be fair, Intrepid aren't going to do this.

    Risk vs reward in Ashes is a very real thing. The problem is, some people just assume that risk vs reward just means risk.

    Imagine a player that is taking a months worth of crafted armor to the market to sell. It's in their inventory, so no risk of losing it if they get attacked. However, there is also no inherent reward for them getting it to the market. The risk vs reward considerations for this gear they want to sell are contained within the process of gathering the materials, processing them and then crafting the final items.

    Now, if we were to assume risk vs reward and want to increase the risk via making it so this player can have damage sustained to these items, then we also need to increase the reward they are given for successfully getting this gear to the market.

    By not providing a reward for this player, we aren't adding risk vs reward, we are just adding risk.

    The concept of naked alt mules in the OP makes literally no sense at all in any game that I can imagine (not without additional consequences of dying, at least).

    If I have want to transport finished goods from point *a* to point *b*, why do I need an alt? Just inequip everything from my main and transport it that way.

    The alt aspect literally makes no sense.
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    MrPockets wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Unsure if you have been keeping up with this persons post but everything revolves around making the game experience as terrible as possible for people. Like survival element level minus the fun. Granted IS knows what they are doing and will shift through the good and bad feedback.

    Let me clarify what I meant.
    I was specifically responding to this
    Neurath wrote: »
    Sometimes I feel you just want to fuck the game up with your suggestions.

    I don't think the OP is INTENTIALLY trying to "fuck the game up". I find this (and other similar suggestions) in line with the core risk vs reward design philosophy.

    I think it is pretty obvious when an idea is in line with the core design principles, but that doesn't mean that idea is a good fit for the game. It ALSO doesn't mean the person proposing the idea is trying to "sabotage" the game. I see no benefit in attacking people who are just trying to share their ideas with the community.

    At that point you can say any damaging thing is risk vrs reward even if it doesn't make sense for the game, its too far broad a statement to use as a defense.

    Its not a good idea, and people are free to voice their disagreement with it. This is the thing everyone can say their idea without realizing it would end up making a bad game. Its a common trail I've seen with some of her post. Nor is saying an idea is bad is attacking a person, I've already made comments why it is bad to begin with with my previous post.

    So i will reiterate if you are bringing rare gear with you asked on their vision you don't just repair with silver you need to use rare mats or break apart rare gear so you can use the parts to repair it. Effective you are doing more than just double taxing them. Their point is to have multiple gear sets so you can tackle more challenges. Gear that you will of course have to work towards and not just pick it off the ground easily if it is effective gear.

    The game revolves around being PvX, you lose xp on gear and your gear is damage, to try to push that with this person desire to make everything hardcore just for the fun of it is not going to make a good game.

    I find it common in these post i need to mention wanting to punish players at ever corner for everything they do, is just a bad idea. That leads to extra frustration which will make people not enjoy the game as much and lead to quitting when you continue to add on more hardcore punishing elements.

    All these elements would simply be things removed in quality of life checks do to player complains, I don't need AoC to be like new world. And honestly I'd heavily further debate why having gear break in your inventory is not really pushing risk for reward in the AoC vision, imo.
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    Mag7spyMag7spy Member
    edited April 2023
    Arya_Yeshe wrote: »
    MrPockets wrote: »
    I think it is pretty obvious when an idea is in line with the core design principles, but that doesn't mean that idea is a good fit for the game. It ALSO doesn't mean the person proposing the idea is trying to "sabotage" the game. I see no benefit in attacking people who are just trying to share their ideas with the community.

    Exactly

    Also, they keep stalking me and making personal attacks and they kept reporting me too
    I will have to start frequently reporting them and if the mods don't do anything, I will have to send this to Steven

    This thread is pretty much in the vision, if they don't like this, they can state their opinions and let other people talk in peace

    I'm not kidding around, they keep comming at me for months already and they do not discuss the point of the discussion, they bypass the discussion and come right at my throat. They try to invalidate me as a person in the attempt to destroy the entire discussion in one go

    I don't know why you think i reported you simply because other people have, but with how you respond it doesn't surprise. I see 0 reason to report you because of your idea good or bad. I'll simply just say why i think your idea is bad/good regardless of your weird tone thinking people are stalking you on a forum when it is the regulars that respond....I'm too busy working and gaming to be stalking anyone.
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    GoalidGoalid Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Neurath wrote: »
    How about no. We will need different sets of armour for different encounters and unless you get enough resources from one kill to fix several sets of armour then it is a hard no.

    I really hope Intrepid doesn't go the route of needing multiple gear sets to do gathering / crafting. Such an awful, tedious system in New World that just makes gatherers unable to protect themselves in OWPvP.
    bRVL6TR.png


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    SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I referenced the various types of mobs in the world. I didn't touch on artisan requirements. It is unlikely you will need more than one set of gear for an artisan class although you will need to upgrade it.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
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    Goalid wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    How about no. We will need different sets of armour for different encounters and unless you get enough resources from one kill to fix several sets of armour then it is a hard no.

    I really hope Intrepid doesn't go the route of needing multiple gear sets to do gathering / crafting. Such an awful, tedious system in New World that just makes gatherers unable to protect themselves in OWPvP.

    I have a feeling you will since their systems are going to be advanced and important. But they are solving the issue all other mmorpgs had by having your adventuring and crafting gear as separate from what i gathered from the videos.
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    Arya_YesheArya_Yeshe Member
    edited April 2023
    Having no damage to gear in the invetory render useless having caravans for hauling finished items, because people can just make a naked level 1 alt, run green and naked all around. If the alt has too many penalties and people killing him, you can just delete it and make another

    This also circunvents node destruction, since your alts are finished item stashes then you don't need to store stuff in the house.

    There's also the min-maxers scourge apparently, with multiple sets of high tier gear in their bags, not only for farming gold more efficiently while having no risk, but also preventing the consequences of storage destruction

    Big guilds won't even need a caravan, they will avoid this pvp event just by running a pack of naked level 1s with all the good stuff.

    Players could offer hauling services running bots with naked level 1s alts

    The damage on the gear in the inventory could be very small, but it should be there, it should be half or less. There's no reason to create drama about this, since in the game itself people will be totally losing large amounts of stuff in sieges, ships and caravans

    Why whine about a little damage on gear in the bag? You won't even lose the item anyways, if you have this much gear in the bag it means you are circunventing all those risks from destroyed storages, ships and caravans

    In AoC you are supposed to get together with the community and fight those risks of destroyed storages, ships and caravans, together!
    If you are stashing stuff in the bag and hauling it safely everywhere is not intended gameplay at all, you are circunventing the systems with this
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
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    Since the big risks are community related, then the tiny risks should be on individual level, so your secret invulnerable stash in your bag should at least take a fraction of damage even if it is much smaller than the damage on the equipped gear

    Just be real, the big risks are in destroyed storages, ships and caravans but those are community related. Having a bit of damage in the stuff in the inventory is nothing compared to that

    No sneaky circuvents in the bag!

    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
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    SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Its not about whining. Its about playtime. I do not want my playtime limited by items in my inventory being damaged without use. What about those instances when you receive an item higher level than you are except you still can't use it when you reach the level because the item was damaged in the inventory.

    Damage to equipment in inventory also diminishes the lifespan of gathering tools. Again, not even a fair trade when you compile the other death penalties on top.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
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    Neurath wrote: »
    Its not about whining. Its about playtime. I do not want my playtime limited by items in my inventory being damaged without use. What about those instances when you receive an item higher level than you are except you still can't use it when you reach the level because the item was damaged in the inventory.

    Damage to equipment in inventory also diminishes the lifespan of gathering tools. Again, not even a fair trade when you compile the other death penalties on top.

    It is pretty much stated that AoC won't be a game of hoarding with tons of loot dropping by
    If you ever loot something above your level, you will store it in the bank and withdraw it later

    There is a bank in AoC
    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Banking
    Nodes advance to the first stage quickly. This enables NPC services such as vending or banking items.[1]
    Banking between characters will likely be restricted to Furniture and completed items.[2]
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
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    MrPocketsMrPockets Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Neurath wrote: »
    Its not about whining. Its about playtime. I do not want my playtime limited by items in my inventory being damaged without use. What about those instances when you receive an item higher level than you are except you still can't use it when you reach the level because the item was damaged in the inventory.

    If that were me, I'd put that item in storage regardless of damage. Because I don't want to waste an inventory slot on something I can't use.
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    SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I don't have to waste time with no fast travel to stick one item in the bank. The item will be safe in my inventory.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
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    Arya_YesheArya_Yeshe Member
    edited April 2023
    MrPockets wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    Its not about whining. Its about playtime. I do not want my playtime limited by items in my inventory being damaged without use. What about those instances when you receive an item higher level than you are except you still can't use it when you reach the level because the item was damaged in the inventory.

    If that were me, I'd put that item in storage regardless of damage. Because I don't want to waste an inventory slot on something I can't use.

    It is pretty impressive that people attack me and the idea, while planning in storing an item in the bag for multiple levels until he reaches he level of that item

    We have to pay attention to the current state of the player base as players, trying to imagine how they play a game
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
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    Neurath wrote: »
    I don't have to waste time with no fast travel to stick one item in the bank. The item will be safe in my inventory.

    :o
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
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    SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    It boggles my mind that you ate boggled by my tendencies. When 90% of the loot is certificates there is plenty of room for an item.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
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    NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Arya_Yeshe wrote: »
    Having no damage to gear in the invetory render useless having caravans for hauling finished items
    Caravans aren't for hauling finished items.
    There's also the min-maxers scourge apparently, with multiple sets of high tier gear in their bags, not only for farming gold more efficiently while having no risk, but also preventing the consequences of storage destruction
    No, you will farm less efficiently.

    Since storage space in Ashes is to be somewhat limited, and since all methods of farming gold will require storage space, the most efficient means of farming gold will require an empty inventory.
    Big guilds won't even need a caravan, they will avoid this pvp event just by running a pack of naked level 1s with all the good stuff.

    Players could offer hauling services running bots with naked level 1s alts
    Explain to me the reason why an alt would be used here.

    Sure, the naked part I understand - it is misguided, but I understand your reasoning. The alt part literally makes no sense though, not from the perspective of this discussion at least.
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