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Any adventuring experience gain removes corruption - Thoughts?
Fantmx
Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
I thought this might be the case which is why I asked two shows in a row (Thank you for answering Steven 
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Any experience that a player gains that contributes to the adventuring level will remove corruption. This includes crafting and although not mentioned presumably gathering and questing, essentially anything experience gain.
I am still processing the scenarios for this. What does everyone think? I feel like the immediate discussions will be turning in quests immediately after turning red or running to a freehold house and crafting away. I am not immediately for nor am I immediately against this idea. Still processing.
This is also means that like gathering experience, crafting experiences appears to increase your overall adventuring level, so no level 1 master crafters.
)Any experience that a player gains that contributes to the adventuring level will remove corruption. This includes crafting and although not mentioned presumably gathering and questing, essentially anything experience gain.
I am still processing the scenarios for this. What does everyone think? I feel like the immediate discussions will be turning in quests immediately after turning red or running to a freehold house and crafting away. I am not immediately for nor am I immediately against this idea. Still processing.
This is also means that like gathering experience, crafting experiences appears to increase your overall adventuring level, so no level 1 master crafters.
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Comments
Entirely.
It's probably not enough to make it an issue, but I'm still really opposed to this unless quest givers refuse to interact with the Corrupted. It could obviously be 'balanced to work', but I don't want it to be 'balanced to work', I want it to not happen.
Any XP we gain adds to the Node's XP and prevents its decay. So, in a way, a PKer who's removing their corruption by XP gaining is helping out whichever node they're in. This could also be additionally balanced by changing values of corruption removal within different nodes (mainly "victim's node removes more").
The biggest abuse I could see with this is doing artisan stuff within your freehold's buildings. If people can just grind some random activity there and remove their corruption - it breaks the whole damn system. Maybe this is one of the reasons why we can now pvp in the footprint of our freehold.
Potential solutions to that could be complete prohibition of PKer artisanry within freeholds; always opened doors if there's a PK inside (and other people can attack PKers even within the building); or, my preferred method, withholding the XP gained within a freehold and trading it to an npc within/near a node center to remove your corruption.
That last one would probably be a bit too convoluted for most people, but I think it would counterbalance the complete risk-freedom of freehold artisanry with super high danger of going near a node center when you're red.
That is certainly one way to solve the quest exp possibility, and not a bad one.
I had not looked at it this way.
The PvP change was to the lot itself and not the house correct? Inside the housing structure is still safe from PvP I think.
I guess it's a small win for murderhobos who like to knit or grow pumpkins.
I apologize to the OP for thinking of his question as stupid last month, but he was on to something. I hope the devs dont go through with this.
You can't use any storage or player trade while corrupted. So there will be no tapping into a stockpile of mats to craft away large amounts corruption. You'd have to go chop down trees, return to freehold and process, and repeat. And you'd have to do that a lot if Ashes uses a similar gathering/processing xp model as other games. XP gain is usually very tiny in other games from gathering/processing. You're probably going to run out of inventory space long before you grind off the corruption.
But that's what I'm talking about, we don't know. We don't have the relevant info yet. How much XP will gathering/processing/crafting give in Ashes. Don't know.
Quest stacking, we don't know either. We don't know the structure of the quest system. Will it really be possible to quest stack like that. If it's possible once, will it be possible again. Can you just repeatedly quest stack, are quests that plentiful and available, no idea. Either way, the player still has to turn in those quests, likely to multiple different quest givers, the risk is still there for him in that process. But is it enough risk? Who knows.
As someone who likes PvP and really dislikes pointless PKing this is actually pretty positive
I don't think people realize how little pking there will be. It will be almost nonexistent. There will be some elite powerhouse guilds who can protect their reds, and you'll probably almost never be able to kill their reds. Everyone else who tries to pk will be weeded out very quickly. That's just what I see. There's too many unknowns to say it definitively, but that's what I see.
I'm not so much worried about the pkers, moreso the way that this system will allow people to just ignore the openworld flagging system and openworld pvp altogether. But I was kind of looking forward to being pked every now and then, to feel that danger.
Didn't know about this. Terrible idea, seems far too care bare focused. This is basically saying 'PvP makes you a borderline NPC'. Have limits that make sense, utterly removing player agency as a punishment mechanic is short sighted.
Force playe5rs to travel a fair distance to earn xp, but don't lock all storage... terrible idea,
Yes I believe the lore explanation behind it was that Nymelia, the goddess of chests, drawers and armoirs, hates corrupted. So corrupted lose their ability to pull on drawer knobs to open them. Jim, the god of door knobs likes corrupted though so corrupted still know how to open the door to their house.
But with todays answer, that means the god of crafting stations, Bob, likes corrupted, so corrupted still know how to use crafting stations.
I just made all of that up. But yeah the player storage thing was a recently answered question, last livestream I think. The player trading thing has been that way for a long time though I believe.
Compared to grinding XP by killing monsters, crafting XP will be a small fraction of that. On top of that, if you can't access your personal storage, the amount of crafting you can do in safety is very limited. If it takes a couple of hours of grinding mobs to remove corruption, I guesstimate it'd take many days of crafting to remove corruption that way. And you can't trade with other players either to get materials.
When you are corrupted NPCs see you as a monster, and that means you can't interact with quest givers or any other NPC. It's not just the guards that will see you as such.
Maybe if there are those public quests where you get the quest as soon enter the area, and some XP upon completion of the objectives, can you gain quest XP that way, but that opens you up to attack from the other people also doing that public quest, so I see no issue with that.
If that thing about NPCs not interacting with you is true (source please?) I have less issues, but I still feel like this is just 'opening the gates for a lot of things that are basically going to be like exploits' that don't need to be enabled as possibilities that would then have to be Whack-a-moled.
Particularly when combined with 'people who have others willing to protect them while they gather' or similar. Always start from Fishing...
I guess I have more of a problem with 'the effort that will be required to make sure this is not a big deal' rather than the possibility of it happening ever. That's why I'd oppose it.
Grati to you both then.
Less concerned, not zero, but no longer consider it reasonable to be particularly opposed if we make all the 'usual obvious assumptions'. Now I just don't like it, without any good basis for that dislike.
I've talked several times on these forums about gathering in an isolated area to remove corruption.
I agree that the quest issue would have been an issue if you could turn in quests while corrupt,but like NiKr, I knew that wasnt going to be the case.
My experience with games that give experience for gathering and crafting (including Archeage) is that these are slower forms of gaining experience than just going out and killing things. As such, people opting to craft or gather to remove corruption are likely going to find that it takes much longer.
The only concern at all that I have about it - that I have always had about it - is if people are able to craft in their freehold to earn experience. This can be resolved by simply preventing corrupt people from being able to lock the door.
You can't pvp on a freehold, the safe part of it at least, which I think was just changed to only inside the house, not the total footprint. The only exceptions to that are duels and after a successful siege. So whether the door is locked or not wouldn't matter.
I did figure out one of Azherae's moles though, maybe. We know reds can't offload anything in their inventory while red because they can't interact with storage and they can't trade with other players. And we know they can't take anything into their inventory either from storage or trading with another player.
The only way they can take anything into their inventory is from looting dead bodies and doing gathering/mining etc. So theoretically, a level 1 character could be loaded up with mats and sent to suicide nearby, for the red loot to loot 50% of the items and go craft/process in their freehold. And repeat as needed.
Does this even matter. Maybe, but like Nerror said gathering/processing tends to be very slow xp in most games. And the reds inventory is going to fill up eventually with the processed items, though we don't know much about inventory sizes yet. As a side question, can reds even delete things in their inventory?
Either way, I think at this point everyone can be pretty assured Intrepid is not going to let things that they view as a corruption system exploit fly under the radar. Where there's a problem, they'll fix it. And we certainly have more than enough very fearful voices on these forums to press the issues.
But yeah, I don't really see why crafting should give any adventuring XP. I wouldn't miss it if that was removed.
As for stocking up quest completions before doing The Crimes, just so you can pay it off quicker... That does seem like a bit of a loop hole. But you would still have to travel back to the quest givers (probably more than one) to do that. Bounty hunters could intercept or camp the quest givers, right?
I am happy it does. Intrepid have already stated that to reach mastery of an artisan skill, you'll likely need a certain adventuring level, so I think it's a nice bonus for those who are heavily into crafting. I don't think it will be a ton of xp anyway, so crafters will still have to go out and kill mobs and do quests.
It also affects the corruption thing. I don't want to see artisans hide behind being level 1 to avoid being ganked, because players get way more corruption when killing a low level. I think that would be pretty lame at least.
Just as Corrupted can't trade with NPCs, I would expect them not to be able to have much interaction with Quest Givers... but... I haven't seen exactly what Steven said, yet.
I hadn't actually thought of this one specifically.
This is definitely one of those situations where I'm just throwing out general instinct from my own years of design, which is why I didn't try to give real reasons and just mentioned it as feeling. So, there isn't really any specific 'thing I'm thinking of', it's like looking at a card or something in a patch note for a MOBA or such. Moreso a 'spider sense tingling' feeling.
And therefore, I shift/admit/back down when presented with better priors.
I don't have a problem with the scenario mentioned, if I think about it. Just another risk/reward, with maybe a bit of a lower chance of Actual Realized Risk compared to some if you're skilled enough. But that's part of the gameplay too. You can be Corrupted 'if you're skilled enough', so the 'I can fish until I am no longer Corrupted as long as we keep beating/dodging the Bounty Hunters' is fine. I'd also assume slow Adventuring Exp gain for crafting/gathering, so it's whatever.
Yeah I knew what you were talking about. There's always gremlins and moles. You look crazy for thinking and saying there are, until one shows up lol.
I agree it's still a risk/reward scenario that may not always pan out how the people doing it want it to. It does seem to have the potential of skirting around the corruption grind off mechanic though. But whether it would even be worth doing in Ashes' XP model, who knows. I'm sure it will be fixed in some form if it needs to be.
I pretty much agree with this:
I get hyperbolic sometimes talking about the corruption system. Ultimately, Steven has some vision in his head of how he wants the system to be. He's going to take the feedback of carebears, middle roaders, and hardcore pvpers, and then he's going to implement his vision, and probably err slightly on the side of what carebears want. Because they whine harder. That's just the way it goes. And it'll probably turn out very fun and engaging regardless.
All of these little things, crafting xp grinding off corruption etc. All subject to change and again, Steven will achieve the vision he wants. No matter how many different levers get tweaked back and forth through testing, they will all end up in a combination that fulfills his vision.
If Intrepid were to remove the ability for a red to lock the door, it means you absolutely can still work away your corruption crafting inside your freehold, but you are still subject to PvP.
- Suiciding to a friend/alt
- Saving up quests for quick XP gain
- Grinding mobs in SE bumf**k where nobody goes
- Playing a class that's built to runaway/stealth
We know that the amount of xp needed to clear corruption via mob grinding is not trivial. And crafting XP gains are usually small compared to mob grinding.One thing about not being able to take/put items into storage. Crafting will auto-take stuff from local storage for crafting. This may bypass corrupted not being able to use storage, so they could possibly manage an extended craft session...until their inventory fills.
But even with that, I don't think "crafting xp clears corruption" is going to be a big deal
That's true, not only in Archeage, but in most games you're safe in your house because the door is locked. My line of thought is based on how it's worded in the wiki and the fact that the entire footprint of the freehold was a safe zone, until recently changed to just the house. But what you brought up does make it seem like an open question still.
The god of doorknobs, Jim, may still have it out for corrupted afterall. I would of course be opposed to that. But based on recent history, if asked for, you just might get it.
what if crafting gives soo little exp that you will run out of mats before you cleanse your corruption?