All YT videos are fucking "ohhh, so you want to main this character?! well here's how to do it!" and not a single damn one about how to beat the shit out of that character
Stun and direction doesn't matter as much what we are talking about is a taunt and not being able to have control of camera during the duration.
Yeah.... For someone that complains that others don't read or can't understand what you are saying so much, you certainly seem to struggle yourself here, and make a ton of assumptions on top of it. Unfortunately for you this means that your constant 'you don't read what I write!' tirades make you seem not very credible and your 'counter-arguments' even more ignorable.
So once again from the top.... "Leap to a nearby enemy hero, forcing them to face Countess and Suppress them for .75 seconds. After the duration, Countess deals magical damage (+10% of the target's maximum health) to the target and heals herself for 50% of the damage dealt."
Jumping into the conversation that moves from insults and you trying to move it back to insults? Actually golden award for you.
Did you really not watch the video I linked, did you also not read what I wrote? If you are going to jump into the conversation with reading insults please read the post you are quoting on it, kind of embarrassing.
The move is a CC that makes your character face the character. Being hard CC (stun) is not a taunt (cc).
As usual this isn't exactly correct, so for anyone suffering through reading this thread, please understand that Mag doesn't actually play this game.
It acts like a Stun under certain specific flow conditions but is not actually a Stun if you have any preparation for it. Not going into a long explanation of that, better to wait for Mag to show us examples he has actual experience with.
Why are you talking about a stun skill, this is not a taunt..
That video is cool and all, but I'm trying to see the effect from the pov of the victim
Actually yeah that might be easier @Mag7spy, can you find a SMITE video from the perspective of someone being taunted/Forced Targeted for NiKr?
I don't wanna get caught up in the specifics of Countess' forced target so let's just use the one you know. Nothing worse than arguing with someone about experiences they don't even have.
Naa im here for this, the conversation we are talking about is a taunt not a hard CC where you can't move and the discussion is more towards action of course.
I'm not going to jump around everywhere so lets settle this first.
The ultimate skill (you can use once every so often) does not allow you to move. There for it is not a taunt where you need to worry about being forced to have your camera moving towards the taunt target over a duration while still needing to manage the "WASD" keys.
You are the one that brought this up in the discussion so we can finish it instead of doing it half assed.
All YT videos are fucking "ohhh, so you want to main this character?! well here's how to do it!" and not a single damn one about how to beat the shit out of that character
Which is unfortunately precisely why someone who lacks experience would conclude that the Suppression is more important than the Forced Target here.
There are lots of stun skills in this game. Why 'bother' adding a Forced Facing to one that is supposedly 'mainly a stun' unnecessarily?
Anyways, if it ever becomes actually relevant I'll go into it.
Why are you talking about a stun skill, this is not a taunt..
That video is cool and all, but I'm trying to see the effect from the pov of the victim
Actually yeah that might be easier @Mag7spy, can you find a SMITE video from the perspective of someone being taunted/Forced Targeted for NiKr?
I don't wanna get caught up in the specifics of Countess' forced target so let's just use the one you know. Nothing worse than arguing with someone about experiences they don't even have.
Naa im here for this, the conversation we are talking about is a taunt not a hard CC where you can't move and the discussion is more towards action of course.
I'm not going to jump around everywhere so lets settle this first.
The ultimate skill (you can use once every so often) does not allow you to move. There for it is not a taunt where you need to worry about being forced to have your camera moving towards the taunt target over a duration while still needing to manage the "WASD" keys.
You are the one that brought this up in the discussion so we can finish it instead of doing it half assed.
There's no way to finish it.
You literally can't comprehend it enough and you haven't played the game, you just jumped to a conclusion.
You're just not listening to what I'm saying and even when I try to drop the thing you want to continue?
Can you think of a reason why they would bother adding the Forced Facing if the move already stuns?
Why are you talking about a stun skill, this is not a taunt..
That video is cool and all, but I'm trying to see the effect from the pov of the victim
Actually yeah that might be easier @Mag7spy, can you find a SMITE video from the perspective of someone being taunted/Forced Targeted for NiKr?
I don't wanna get caught up in the specifics of Countess' forced target so let's just use the one you know. Nothing worse than arguing with someone about experiences they don't even have.
Naa im here for this, the conversation we are talking about is a taunt not a hard CC where you can't move and the discussion is more towards action of course.
I'm not going to jump around everywhere so lets settle this first.
The ultimate skill (you can use once every so often) does not allow you to move. There for it is not a taunt where you need to worry about being forced to have your camera moving towards the taunt target over a duration while still needing to manage the "WASD" keys.
You are the one that brought this up in the discussion so we can finish it instead of doing it half assed.
There's no way to finish it.
You literally can't comprehend it enough and you haven't played the game, you just jumped to a conclusion.
You're just not listening to what I'm saying and even when I try to drop the thing you want to continue?
Can you think of a reason why they would bother adding the Forced Facing if the move already stuns?
I have played the game and unlocked a few characters though not extensively lmao.
Who is saying what is more important CC wise right now, why are you making assumptions.
I'm going to say this in the most basic way so you can understand.
"If the effect is not a taunt that controls your camera as well as lingering camera controls it is not relevant to the discussion.....The discussion is not about what is more important CC wise."
This is why I linked the video.
Please answer the question cause i want to hear it from your own words. Does this ultimate skill effect have lingering camera controls while not hard stun or rooting you in place.
Why are you talking about a stun skill, this is not a taunt..
That video is cool and all, but I'm trying to see the effect from the pov of the victim
Actually yeah that might be easier @Mag7spy, can you find a SMITE video from the perspective of someone being taunted/Forced Targeted for NiKr?
I don't wanna get caught up in the specifics of Countess' forced target so let's just use the one you know. Nothing worse than arguing with someone about experiences they don't even have.
Naa im here for this, the conversation we are talking about is a taunt not a hard CC where you can't move and the discussion is more towards action of course.
I'm not going to jump around everywhere so lets settle this first.
The ultimate skill (you can use once every so often) does not allow you to move. There for it is not a taunt where you need to worry about being forced to have your camera moving towards the taunt target over a duration while still needing to manage the "WASD" keys.
You are the one that brought this up in the discussion so we can finish it instead of doing it half assed.
There's no way to finish it.
You literally can't comprehend it enough and you haven't played the game, you just jumped to a conclusion.
You're just not listening to what I'm saying and even when I try to drop the thing you want to continue?
Can you think of a reason why they would bother adding the Forced Facing if the move already stuns?
I have played the game and unlocked a few characters though not extensively lmao.
Who is saying what is more important CC wise right now, why are you making assumptions.
I'm going to say this in the most basic way so you can understand.
"If the effect is not a taunt that controls your camera as well as lingering camera controls it is not relevant to the discussion.....The discussion is not about what is more important CC wise."
This is why I linked the video.
Please answer the question cause i want to hear it from your own words. Does this ultimate skill effect have lingering camera controls while not hard stun or rooting you in place.
You didn't even ask this question.
But fine.
Countess' Ult will Force Target you even if you cleanse or resist the Stun or Root.
The Forced Facing is a separate and intentional effect.
EDIT: I should clarify properly, this ability is 'Suppress' not Stun or Root, which acts differently under certain specific conditions, if this is somehow important to conclude this...
Actually NiKr you probably have enough information now for if you even care.
Actually NiKr you probably have enough information now for if you even care.
I honestly could not give fewer fucks about info or details. I literally just wanna see how a single damn game applied the taunt effect in an action combat game. I want to see it from the victim's pov. I just want to see the practical application. All this arguing about stupid stuff does nothing.
Why are you talking about a stun skill, this is not a taunt..
That video is cool and all, but I'm trying to see the effect from the pov of the victim
Actually yeah that might be easier @Mag7spy, can you find a SMITE video from the perspective of someone being taunted/Forced Targeted for NiKr?
I don't wanna get caught up in the specifics of Countess' forced target so let's just use the one you know. Nothing worse than arguing with someone about experiences they don't even have.
Naa im here for this, the conversation we are talking about is a taunt not a hard CC where you can't move and the discussion is more towards action of course.
I'm not going to jump around everywhere so lets settle this first.
The ultimate skill (you can use once every so often) does not allow you to move. There for it is not a taunt where you need to worry about being forced to have your camera moving towards the taunt target over a duration while still needing to manage the "WASD" keys.
You are the one that brought this up in the discussion so we can finish it instead of doing it half assed.
There's no way to finish it.
You literally can't comprehend it enough and you haven't played the game, you just jumped to a conclusion.
You're just not listening to what I'm saying and even when I try to drop the thing you want to continue?
Can you think of a reason why they would bother adding the Forced Facing if the move already stuns?
I have played the game and unlocked a few characters though not extensively lmao.
Who is saying what is more important CC wise right now, why are you making assumptions.
I'm going to say this in the most basic way so you can understand.
"If the effect is not a taunt that controls your camera as well as lingering camera controls it is not relevant to the discussion.....The discussion is not about what is more important CC wise."
This is why I linked the video.
Please answer the question cause i want to hear it from your own words. Does this ultimate skill effect have lingering camera controls while not hard stun or rooting you in place.
You didn't even ask this question.
But fine.
Countess' Ult will Force Target you even if you cleanse or resist the Stun or Root.
The Forced Facing is a separate and intentional effect.
EDIT: I should clarify properly, this ability is 'Suppress' not Stun or Root, which acts differently under certain specific conditions, if this is somehow important to conclude this...
Actually NiKr you probably have enough information now for if you even care.
Does this skill have lingering camera controls while victim can move their character.
Why are you talking about a stun skill, this is not a taunt..
That video is cool and all, but I'm trying to see the effect from the pov of the victim
Actually yeah that might be easier @Mag7spy, can you find a SMITE video from the perspective of someone being taunted/Forced Targeted for NiKr?
I don't wanna get caught up in the specifics of Countess' forced target so let's just use the one you know. Nothing worse than arguing with someone about experiences they don't even have.
Naa im here for this, the conversation we are talking about is a taunt not a hard CC where you can't move and the discussion is more towards action of course.
I'm not going to jump around everywhere so lets settle this first.
The ultimate skill (you can use once every so often) does not allow you to move. There for it is not a taunt where you need to worry about being forced to have your camera moving towards the taunt target over a duration while still needing to manage the "WASD" keys.
You are the one that brought this up in the discussion so we can finish it instead of doing it half assed.
There's no way to finish it.
You literally can't comprehend it enough and you haven't played the game, you just jumped to a conclusion.
You're just not listening to what I'm saying and even when I try to drop the thing you want to continue?
Can you think of a reason why they would bother adding the Forced Facing if the move already stuns?
I have played the game and unlocked a few characters though not extensively lmao.
Who is saying what is more important CC wise right now, why are you making assumptions.
I'm going to say this in the most basic way so you can understand.
"If the effect is not a taunt that controls your camera as well as lingering camera controls it is not relevant to the discussion.....The discussion is not about what is more important CC wise."
This is why I linked the video.
Please answer the question cause i want to hear it from your own words. Does this ultimate skill effect have lingering camera controls while not hard stun or rooting you in place.
You didn't even ask this question.
But fine.
Countess' Ult will Force Target you even if you cleanse or resist the Stun or Root.
The Forced Facing is a separate and intentional effect.
EDIT: I should clarify properly, this ability is 'Suppress' not Stun or Root, which acts differently under certain specific conditions, if this is somehow important to conclude this...
Actually NiKr you probably have enough information now for if you even care.
Does this skill have lingering camera controls while victim can move their character.
Actually NiKr you probably have enough information now for if you even care.
I honestly could not give fewer fucks about info or details. I literally just wanna see how a single damn game applied the taunt effect in an action combat game. I want to see it from the victim's pov. I just want to see the practical application. All this arguing about stupid stuff does nothing.
Yeah, I'm sorry about that. I still haven't figured out how to engage with Mag and I'm sure it will be better served if I just don't do that at all. I hope Mag finds the information you want whenever he's done with whatever 'reaction' or 'proof' he comes up with that my experiences are incorrect.
Yeah, I'm sorry about that. I still haven't figured out how to engage with Mag and I'm sure it will be better served if I just don't do that at all. I hope Mag finds the information you want whenever he's done with whatever 'reaction' or 'proof' he comes up with that my experiences are incorrect.
I found a stream of a game against serqet. Gonna go through it and hope to the whole pantheon of those smite gods that Serqet does her taunt against the streamer, cause god knows Mag ain't providing that.
Why are you talking about a stun skill, this is not a taunt..
That video is cool and all, but I'm trying to see the effect from the pov of the victim
Actually yeah that might be easier @Mag7spy, can you find a SMITE video from the perspective of someone being taunted/Forced Targeted for NiKr?
I don't wanna get caught up in the specifics of Countess' forced target so let's just use the one you know. Nothing worse than arguing with someone about experiences they don't even have.
Naa im here for this, the conversation we are talking about is a taunt not a hard CC where you can't move and the discussion is more towards action of course.
I'm not going to jump around everywhere so lets settle this first.
The ultimate skill (you can use once every so often) does not allow you to move. There for it is not a taunt where you need to worry about being forced to have your camera moving towards the taunt target over a duration while still needing to manage the "WASD" keys.
You are the one that brought this up in the discussion so we can finish it instead of doing it half assed.
There's no way to finish it.
You literally can't comprehend it enough and you haven't played the game, you just jumped to a conclusion.
You're just not listening to what I'm saying and even when I try to drop the thing you want to continue?
Can you think of a reason why they would bother adding the Forced Facing if the move already stuns?
I have played the game and unlocked a few characters though not extensively lmao.
Who is saying what is more important CC wise right now, why are you making assumptions.
I'm going to say this in the most basic way so you can understand.
"If the effect is not a taunt that controls your camera as well as lingering camera controls it is not relevant to the discussion.....The discussion is not about what is more important CC wise."
This is why I linked the video.
Please answer the question cause i want to hear it from your own words. Does this ultimate skill effect have lingering camera controls while not hard stun or rooting you in place.
You didn't even ask this question.
But fine.
Countess' Ult will Force Target you even if you cleanse or resist the Stun or Root.
The Forced Facing is a separate and intentional effect.
EDIT: I should clarify properly, this ability is 'Suppress' not Stun or Root, which acts differently under certain specific conditions, if this is somehow important to conclude this...
Actually NiKr you probably have enough information now for if you even care.
Why are you talking about a stun skill, this is not a taunt..
That video is cool and all, but I'm trying to see the effect from the pov of the victim
Actually yeah that might be easier @Mag7spy, can you find a SMITE video from the perspective of someone being taunted/Forced Targeted for NiKr?
I don't wanna get caught up in the specifics of Countess' forced target so let's just use the one you know. Nothing worse than arguing with someone about experiences they don't even have.
Naa im here for this, the conversation we are talking about is a taunt not a hard CC where you can't move and the discussion is more towards action of course.
I'm not going to jump around everywhere so lets settle this first.
The ultimate skill (you can use once every so often) does not allow you to move. There for it is not a taunt where you need to worry about being forced to have your camera moving towards the taunt target over a duration while still needing to manage the "WASD" keys.
You are the one that brought this up in the discussion so we can finish it instead of doing it half assed.
There's no way to finish it.
You literally can't comprehend it enough and you haven't played the game, you just jumped to a conclusion.
You're just not listening to what I'm saying and even when I try to drop the thing you want to continue?
Can you think of a reason why they would bother adding the Forced Facing if the move already stuns?
I have played the game and unlocked a few characters though not extensively lmao.
Who is saying what is more important CC wise right now, why are you making assumptions.
I'm going to say this in the most basic way so you can understand.
"If the effect is not a taunt that controls your camera as well as lingering camera controls it is not relevant to the discussion.....The discussion is not about what is more important CC wise."
This is why I linked the video.
Please answer the question cause i want to hear it from your own words. Does this ultimate skill effect have lingering camera controls while not hard stun or rooting you in place.
You didn't even ask this question.
But fine.
Countess' Ult will Force Target you even if you cleanse or resist the Stun or Root.
The Forced Facing is a separate and intentional effect.
EDIT: I should clarify properly, this ability is 'Suppress' not Stun or Root, which acts differently under certain specific conditions, if this is somehow important to conclude this...
Actually NiKr you probably have enough information now for if you even care.
Does this skill have lingering camera controls while victim can move their character.
Yes.
Then looks like we both need to find video links for this
@NiKr I'm looking to try to find one, but like i said in these games it is skill based and we are talking about a taunt that is not skill based on tab target leaning in application.
Why are you talking about a stun skill, this is not a taunt..
That video is cool and all, but I'm trying to see the effect from the pov of the victim
Actually yeah that might be easier @Mag7spy, can you find a SMITE video from the perspective of someone being taunted/Forced Targeted for NiKr?
I don't wanna get caught up in the specifics of Countess' forced target so let's just use the one you know. Nothing worse than arguing with someone about experiences they don't even have.
Naa im here for this, the conversation we are talking about is a taunt not a hard CC where you can't move and the discussion is more towards action of course.
I'm not going to jump around everywhere so lets settle this first.
The ultimate skill (you can use once every so often) does not allow you to move. There for it is not a taunt where you need to worry about being forced to have your camera moving towards the taunt target over a duration while still needing to manage the "WASD" keys.
You are the one that brought this up in the discussion so we can finish it instead of doing it half assed.
There's no way to finish it.
You literally can't comprehend it enough and you haven't played the game, you just jumped to a conclusion.
You're just not listening to what I'm saying and even when I try to drop the thing you want to continue?
Can you think of a reason why they would bother adding the Forced Facing if the move already stuns?
I have played the game and unlocked a few characters though not extensively lmao.
Who is saying what is more important CC wise right now, why are you making assumptions.
I'm going to say this in the most basic way so you can understand.
"If the effect is not a taunt that controls your camera as well as lingering camera controls it is not relevant to the discussion.....The discussion is not about what is more important CC wise."
This is why I linked the video.
Please answer the question cause i want to hear it from your own words. Does this ultimate skill effect have lingering camera controls while not hard stun or rooting you in place.
You didn't even ask this question.
But fine.
Countess' Ult will Force Target you even if you cleanse or resist the Stun or Root.
The Forced Facing is a separate and intentional effect.
EDIT: I should clarify properly, this ability is 'Suppress' not Stun or Root, which acts differently under certain specific conditions, if this is somehow important to conclude this...
Actually NiKr you probably have enough information now for if you even care.
Why are you talking about a stun skill, this is not a taunt..
That video is cool and all, but I'm trying to see the effect from the pov of the victim
Actually yeah that might be easier @Mag7spy, can you find a SMITE video from the perspective of someone being taunted/Forced Targeted for NiKr?
I don't wanna get caught up in the specifics of Countess' forced target so let's just use the one you know. Nothing worse than arguing with someone about experiences they don't even have.
Naa im here for this, the conversation we are talking about is a taunt not a hard CC where you can't move and the discussion is more towards action of course.
I'm not going to jump around everywhere so lets settle this first.
The ultimate skill (you can use once every so often) does not allow you to move. There for it is not a taunt where you need to worry about being forced to have your camera moving towards the taunt target over a duration while still needing to manage the "WASD" keys.
You are the one that brought this up in the discussion so we can finish it instead of doing it half assed.
There's no way to finish it.
You literally can't comprehend it enough and you haven't played the game, you just jumped to a conclusion.
You're just not listening to what I'm saying and even when I try to drop the thing you want to continue?
Can you think of a reason why they would bother adding the Forced Facing if the move already stuns?
I have played the game and unlocked a few characters though not extensively lmao.
Who is saying what is more important CC wise right now, why are you making assumptions.
I'm going to say this in the most basic way so you can understand.
"If the effect is not a taunt that controls your camera as well as lingering camera controls it is not relevant to the discussion.....The discussion is not about what is more important CC wise."
This is why I linked the video.
Please answer the question cause i want to hear it from your own words. Does this ultimate skill effect have lingering camera controls while not hard stun or rooting you in place.
You didn't even ask this question.
But fine.
Countess' Ult will Force Target you even if you cleanse or resist the Stun or Root.
The Forced Facing is a separate and intentional effect.
EDIT: I should clarify properly, this ability is 'Suppress' not Stun or Root, which acts differently under certain specific conditions, if this is somehow important to conclude this...
Actually NiKr you probably have enough information now for if you even care.
Does this skill have lingering camera controls while victim can move their character.
Yes.
Then looks like we both need to find video links for this
@NiKr I'm looking to try to find one, but like i said in these games it is skill based and we are talking about a taunt that is not skill based on tab target leaning in application.
Nah I'm good. I'm pretty sure NiKr believes me, the only other people in the thread have been HIT by this Ult at some point and know how it works.
I guess you just never reacted to it in time to experience what I refer to since you didn't play Paragon (I assume Paragon) that much. Have a good one.
I'm looking to try to find one, but like i said in these games it is skill based and we are talking about a taunt that is not skill based on tab target leaning in application.
I don't care how skill or unskill based it is. If the taunt literally moves the players reticle towards the taunter - that's what I want to see. That is what, it seems, you're talking about. Does Smite do that? I saw one Serqet's kiss so far and it didn't seem to move the camera. Gonna keep watching to be sure.
1:34 you can see how they lose control of the camera, though this one is stronger since they can't cast skills and such or more with "WASD" it is a forced attack.
If they were moving away from them or not knowing hey were there they would be flipped around and forced to move to the target. In larger fights with a lot going on you would be pulled constantly with that kind of effect going on in a mmorpg sense. Even more so with the range that would be on the taunt.
Ok, I saw how Serqet's taunt works. It's a direct pull of the camera and hold of it for like 1s. It disorientates you a bit because the screen moves really damn quickly, but that is the point of a taunt imo.
So now, Mag, your ideal goal would be to find any and all feedback from smite players that complain about this mechanic. If you don't want to do that and will just say (as you have been) that "imagine 20 people doing that to you" - that is not an argument. And it's not because Intrepid have probably a dozen ways of designing the mechanic of such a taunt in a way where "20 people" can't just keep pulling your camera all over the place.
Also, the move of the screen itself doesn't have to be that jarring. It could be a slight slowish slide instead of an instant snap. Though even that is arguable, because either of those serve their own purposes in a fight.
1:34 you can see how they lose control of the camera, though this one is stronger since they can't cast skills and such or more with "WASD" it is a forced attack.
If they were moving away from them or not knowing hey were there they would be flipped around and forced to move to the target. In larger fights with a lot going on you would be pulled constantly with that kind of effect going on in a mmorpg sense. Even more so with the range that would be on the taunt.
That one is way smoother, so even less of a problem imo.
So yeah, if you manage to find feedback where people dislike this - I'll get your point much better. Right now I see literally no problem with a taunt that pulls your camera.
ALSO! Just to make sure that I'm clear here. What I'm suggesting (and I think what Noaani was suggesting) is just the movement of the camera. Your char doesn't move on its own, it's not being pulled physically or anything of the sort. Your camera just starts to move towards the tank that taunted you and it's your task to account for that in your movement/actions. Those smite players seemed to have been doing fine.
And as I've already said before, in all 12 years of me playing as (and against) a tank - I've not once seen more than 3 aggroing classes on one person. And I've participated in fights ranging in size from 9v9 to several hundred vs several hundred.
Oh, and as a side point, thank you for finding that video. I appreciate it.
I do also honestly appreciate it, thank you for finding it.
My response also stays the same, Intrepid. That's perfectly fine with me, I don't consider it clunky or problematic. Even if multiple Tanks were taunting me, that moreso feels to me like they're wasting their ability, especially if it has a cooldown that's balanced around it.
I would request that this generally doesn't affect a person's camera facing more than once every 5 seconds even if there are many tanks timing it. Subject to testing, I'd be okay with this experience, but you should factor for 'higher than that' maybe since I have quite good reactions/spatial awareness.
I'll try to get some data from a 'slower' team member.
Ok, I saw how Serqet's taunt works. It's a direct pull of the camera and hold of it for like 1s. It disorientates you a bit because the screen moves really damn quickly, but that is the point of a taunt imo.
So now, Mag, your ideal goal would be to find any and all feedback from smite players that complain about this mechanic. If you don't want to do that and will just say (as you have been) that "imagine 20 people doing that to you" - that is not an argument. And it's not because Intrepid have probably a dozen ways of designing the mechanic of such a taunt in a way where "20 people" can't just keep pulling your camera all over the place.
Also, the move of the screen itself doesn't have to be that jarring. It could be a slight slowish slide instead of an instant snap. Though even that is arguable, because either of those serve their own purposes in a fight.
1:34 you can see how they lose control of the camera, though this one is stronger since they can't cast skills and such or more with "WASD" it is a forced attack.
If they were moving away from them or not knowing hey were there they would be flipped around and forced to move to the target. In larger fights with a lot going on you would be pulled constantly with that kind of effect going on in a mmorpg sense. Even more so with the range that would be on the taunt.
That one is way smoother, so even less of a problem imo.
So yeah, if you manage to find feedback where people dislike this - I'll get your point much better. Right now I see literally no problem with a taunt that pulls your camera.
ALSO! Just to make sure that I'm clear here. What I'm suggesting (and I think what Noaani was suggesting) is just the movement of the camera. Your char doesn't move on its own, it's not being pulled physically or anything of the sort. Your camera just starts to move towards the tank that taunted you and it's your task to account for that in your movement/actions. Those smite players seemed to have been doing fine.
And as I've already said before, in all 12 years of me playing as (and against) a tank - I've not once seen more than 3 aggroing classes on one person. And I've participated in fights ranging in size from 9v9 to several hundred vs several hundred.
Before i go into depth on answering this are you suggesting that a mmorpg and the things that come with it, should have the same balancing as a moba design wise? (I'm not saying you have no cc protection).
This is an important question before I get into more details with one game being hybrid and one being full action. Why this question is important is how balancing is approached is greatly different between what a moba and a mmorpg will be doing as well as the scale of conflict.
Not a loaded question either you can say yes or no, but it will change how I approach answering.
I would request that this generally doesn't affect a person's camera facing more than once every 5 seconds even if there are many tanks timing it. Subject to testing, I'd be okay with this experience, but you should factor for 'higher than that' maybe since I have quite good reactions/spatial awareness.
I'd personally go for smth like a 10s debuff that pans the camera slowly towards the tank every 5 secs (so 3 times overall) and if the taunt is recast by someone else, the direction of the pan just shifts toward that new caster but w/o the on-cast effect.
This way each tank would have to pay a ton of attention to their target, if they wanted to chain-taunt it. And that seems like a perfect way to absolutely waste a ton of super valuable tank time. And if they don't try to perfectly space out their taunts, then they're either overlapping and wasting their CDs or their taunts are spread out more than 5s apart, at which point the effect is at a steady rate that a player can adjust to.
Ideally, this effect would also depend on a stat that has a counter-stat that reduces the speed of the pan (maybe even to 0). Could be a resistance buff as well, though I'd prefer just a stat relation, cause imo that would make the builds deeper and more interesting.
Before i go into depth on answering this are you suggesting that a mmorpg and the things that come with it, should have the same balancing as a moba design wise? (I'm not saying you have no cc protection).
This is an important question before I get into more details with one game being hybrid and one being full action. Why this question is important is how balancing is approached is greatly different between what a moba and a mmorpg will be doing as well as the scale of conflict.
Not a loaded question either you can say yes or no, but it will change how I approach answering.
Nope. It's for the exact reason of Intrepid having more design freedom in how they approach this mechanic, that I believe it would not be jarring or annoying. And it would let them balance it in a better way than a direct copy from smite/predecessor would lead to.
I would request that this generally doesn't affect a person's camera facing more than once every 5 seconds even if there are many tanks timing it. Subject to testing, I'd be okay with this experience, but you should factor for 'higher than that' maybe since I have quite good reactions/spatial awareness.
I'd personally go for smth like a 10s debuff that pans the camera slowly towards the tank every 5 secs (so 3 times overall) and if the taunt is recast by someone else, the direction of the pan just shifts toward that new caster but w/o the on-cast effect.
This way each tank would have to pay a ton of attention to their target, if they wanted to chain-taunt it. And that seems like a perfect way to absolutely waste a ton of super valuable tank time. And if they don't try to perfectly space out their taunts, then they're either overlapping and wasting their CDs or their taunts are spread out more than 5s apart, at which point the effect is at a steady rate that a player can adjust to.
Ideally, this effect would also depend on a stat that has a counter-stat that reduces the speed of the pan (maybe even to 0). Could be a resistance buff as well, though I'd prefer just a stat relation, cause imo that would make the builds deeper and more interesting.
Honestly i think im reading wrong or something, did you say your camera pans every certain amount of seconds over the duration of a debuff?
Honestly i think im reading wrong or something, did you say your camera pans every certain amount of seconds over the duration of a debuff?
The pan would be no longer than 2s, it would be slow and, yes, it would repeat 3 times over the duration of the buff. This is how I see a pvp taunt working where you'd have to, at the very least, pay attention to the tank and his positioning instead of your preferred target. And it would be on the tank to spin you around from other targets.
And if you notice that you're the main target of taunts - you'd be able to build against them. This wasn't a thing in L2 afaik.
Before i go into depth on answering this are you suggesting that a mmorpg and the things that come with it, should have the same balancing as a moba design wise? (I'm not saying you have no cc protection).
This is an important question before I get into more details with one game being hybrid and one being full action. Why this question is important is how balancing is approached is greatly different between what a moba and a mmorpg will be doing as well as the scale of conflict.
Not a loaded question either you can say yes or no, but it will change how I approach answering.
Nope. It's for the exact reason of Intrepid having more design freedom in how they approach this mechanic, that I believe it would not be jarring or annoying. And it would let them balance it in a better way than a direct copy from smite/predecessor would lead to.
ok If the answer is no, what does other people playing smite with their opinions have to do with Camera affecting skills. As in the game their complains would be around smaller fights, non tab target skills (aka a taunt that is not a skill shots), and very minimal chance to encounter that kind of affect besides a characters I can count on one hand?
By default opinion and voices on it are not going to be as loud as there are 8 archetypes in AoC so we can say one in 1-8 to run into a tank. Where in smite it be like a 2-100 to run into it roughly.
(this is not to say there aren't voices by the way but based on how smite is being designed differently voices and complains might be else where again from a design stand point and the options of characters to pick..)
Honestly i think im reading wrong or something, did you say your camera pans every certain amount of seconds over the duration of a debuff?
The pan would be no longer than 2s, it would be slow and, yes, it would repeat 3 times over the duration of the buff. This is how I see a pvp taunt working where you'd have to, at the very least, pay attention to the tank and his positioning instead of your preferred target. And it would be on the tank to spin you around from other targets.
And if you notice that you're the main target of taunts - you'd be able to build against them. This wasn't a thing in L2 afaik.
This sounds like a very tab idea mind set, my voice point is strong on it being once every 5-10 seconds even if that taunt lasted one second. This sounds like one of the most unenjoyable effects I've heard of though , please don't take offense to that but that is just how i see it.
ok If the answer is no, what does other people playing smite with their opinions have to do with Camera affecting skills. As in the game their complains would be around smaller fights, non tab target skills (aka a taunt that is not a skill shots), and very minimal chance to encounter that kind of affect besides a characters I can count on one hand?
By default opinion and voices on it are not going to be as loud as there are 8 archetypes in AoC so we can say one in 1-8 to run into a tank. Where in smite it be like a 2-100 to run into it roughly.
(this is not to say there aren't voices by the way but based on how smite is being designed differently voices and complains might be else where again from a design stand point and the options of characters to pick..)
It would be a point to extrapolate on. If there's people complaining about it in smite, there'll definitely be people complaining about it in Ashes. If there's only a tiny minority of complainers in Smite, Ashes would probably have a somewhat decent number (purely because I don't think this has been done in an mmo before).
Also, once again, classes don't matter and don't count, because they do not represent separate skillsets. It would just be "there's a tank", and that's it. And unless Intrepid truly succeed with their "1 of each" design, I'm not even sure how many parties will have tanks in their setups.
But even if Intrepid do succeed, that's still only 1 tank per party. So even in a huge 500v500, that's only 60 tanks for FIVE HUNDRED TARGETS OF ENEMIES. The mass literally doesn't add up to "omg there's 20 damn tanks on me who can all perfectly stagger their taunts in such a way that I'm constantly taunted".
Even 3 tanks on one target would mean that 3 whole-fucking-parties'-worth of tanks are controlling A SINGLE TARGET. All while literally anyone else on the field can attack those tanks' parties with them being defenseless.
I haven't played BDO nearly enough to know if they have any kind of party play or coordination, but I definitely feel like you think that you'd be the center of attention on a field of hundreds, instead of each of those people having their own target. In a party-based game, the party IS the target, so any incoming damage or CC or whatever else is spread across all 8 members, even if it's directed towards only a single character.
This sounds like a very tab idea mind set, my voice point is strong on it being once every 5-10 seconds even if that taunt lasted one second. This sounds like one of the most unenjoyable effects I've heard of though , please don't take offense to that but that is just how i see it.
And imo that is the whole point of a taunt. It should be distracting, annoying and unpleasant. And your goal would then be to remove it instead of putting up with it.
Also, L2's aggro had a cd of 3 seconds on its effect. That's a tab effect. I adjusted that to a more actiony gameplay. Also also, if you see that you're being targeted by a tank - literally all you'd need to do is go into tab mode. Now your camera is not panning. You're still taunted, but at least you're not being disoriented. The beauty of hybrid combat system
ok If the answer is no, what does other people playing smite with their opinions have to do with Camera affecting skills. As in the game their complains would be around smaller fights, non tab target skills (aka a taunt that is not a skill shots), and very minimal chance to encounter that kind of affect besides a characters I can count on one hand?
By default opinion and voices on it are not going to be as loud as there are 8 archetypes in AoC so we can say one in 1-8 to run into a tank. Where in smite it be like a 2-100 to run into it roughly.
(this is not to say there aren't voices by the way but based on how smite is being designed differently voices and complains might be else where again from a design stand point and the options of characters to pick..)
It would be a point to extrapolate on. If there's people complaining about it in smite, there'll definitely be people complaining about it in Ashes. If there's only a tiny minority of complainers in Smite, Ashes would probably have a somewhat decent number (purely because I don't think this has been done in an mmo before).
Also, once again, classes don't matter and don't count, because they do not represent separate skillsets. It would just be "there's a tank", and that's it. And unless Intrepid truly succeed with their "1 of each" design, I'm not even sure how many parties will have tanks in their setups.
But even if Intrepid do succeed, that's still only 1 tank per party. So even in a huge 500v500, that's only 60 tanks for FIVE HUNDRED TARGETS OF ENEMIES. The mass literally doesn't add up to "omg there's 20 damn tanks on me who can all perfectly stagger their taunts in such a way that I'm constantly taunted".
Even 3 tanks on one target would mean that 3 whole-fucking-parties'-worth of tanks are controlling A SINGLE TARGET. All while literally anyone else on the field can attack those tanks' parties with them being defenseless.
I haven't played BDO nearly enough to know if they have any kind of party play or coordination, but I definitely feel like you think that you'd be the center of attention on a field of hundreds, instead of each of those people having their own target. In a party-based game, the party IS the target, so any incoming damage or CC or whatever else is spread across all 8 members, even if it's directed towards only a single character.
You do not exist in a vacuum.
The point is finding information on smite where it is designed different is going to be different than a mmorpg. My point is you already have a small subset to come up with, you aren't going to just find everyone complaining everwhere. Smite is a smaller moba > Other issues palyers complain about > Tons of hero selection > different game balance > amount of people playing as the character out of the 100+ others > people that annoyed > People that complain.
So are getting into such a small set it is going to be harder to find people complaining, as well as the game is designed different. If the skill worked how you had as for an idea that character would be considered one of the best character in the game tank wise. Everyone would be playing it since it be broken. Also people have a means to dodge the skills and such so they can chalk it up to their own skill and improve on it rather than just blame it on the skill itself.
Why i don't see there is a point just looking for people complaining since that can exist for anything and smite isn't big enough to rage over just a taunt on a single character. (the function of it still different than what im talking about. The taunt is a hard cc, what I'm also talking about is a taunt that is a cc that lets you use WASD since it is only controlling your camera and not really forcing you to attack)
I don't think this is valid (I'm unsure if they said you need one of each archtype, pretty sure they mean a mix in some variety with the different ways you can flex your class, but don't really want to get to into that that is another convo)
Why I don't think this is valid is because wars are not going to be just a one of each arch type and done. Based on the balance of the game, what is strong and what works and what you need. Armies are going to be created based off that. That was the case for NW when I was making our roster, things were not even, we had more bruisers and tanks for wars, healers, and some dmg mages. The weight of classes we had in are rooster was important and not balanced at all.
You think certain people don't get focused in wars even with everything going on? That is a fact that it can happen lol but also besides the point. The argument here I'm seeing if because there isn't a tank per person it isn't as bad. I view things equally it isn't about if it affects 10%-70% but how does that affect the gameplay experience per person. And it affects it badly, even more so if there was a debuff that did it multiple times over a duration.
Based on what you are saying with a single target we are assuming the taunts only affect one target? If we are talking about pve id expect plenty of aggro like skills, single taunts, and aoe taunts. I don't think we should be setting the bar the tank has one taunt and that is enough to handle very hard pve content.
Comments
As usual this isn't exactly correct, so for anyone suffering through reading this thread, please understand that Mag doesn't actually play this game.
It acts like a Stun under certain specific flow conditions but is not actually a Stun if you have any preparation for it. Not going into a long explanation of that, better to wait for Mag to show us examples he has actual experience with.
Naa im here for this, the conversation we are talking about is a taunt not a hard CC where you can't move and the discussion is more towards action of course.
I'm not going to jump around everywhere so lets settle this first.
The ultimate skill (you can use once every so often) does not allow you to move. There for it is not a taunt where you need to worry about being forced to have your camera moving towards the taunt target over a duration while still needing to manage the "WASD" keys.
You are the one that brought this up in the discussion so we can finish it instead of doing it half assed.
Which is unfortunately precisely why someone who lacks experience would conclude that the Suppression is more important than the Forced Target here.
There are lots of stun skills in this game. Why 'bother' adding a Forced Facing to one that is supposedly 'mainly a stun' unnecessarily?
Anyways, if it ever becomes actually relevant I'll go into it.
There's no way to finish it.
You literally can't comprehend it enough and you haven't played the game, you just jumped to a conclusion.
You're just not listening to what I'm saying and even when I try to drop the thing you want to continue?
Can you think of a reason why they would bother adding the Forced Facing if the move already stuns?
I have played the game and unlocked a few characters though not extensively lmao.
Who is saying what is more important CC wise right now, why are you making assumptions.
I'm going to say this in the most basic way so you can understand.
"If the effect is not a taunt that controls your camera as well as lingering camera controls it is not relevant to the discussion.....The discussion is not about what is more important CC wise."
This is why I linked the video.
Please answer the question cause i want to hear it from your own words. Does this ultimate skill effect have lingering camera controls while not hard stun or rooting you in place.
You didn't even ask this question.
But fine.
Countess' Ult will Force Target you even if you cleanse or resist the Stun or Root.
The Forced Facing is a separate and intentional effect.
EDIT: I should clarify properly, this ability is 'Suppress' not Stun or Root, which acts differently under certain specific conditions, if this is somehow important to conclude this...
Actually NiKr you probably have enough information now for if you even care.
Mag says 'I've played the game even unlocked a few characters'.
I'm talking about Predecessor not Paragon.
You don't unlock characters in Predecessor.
It's probably 'just' a case of Mag misremembering something. Yeah. That's the most likely.
Does this skill have lingering camera controls while victim can move their character.
Yes.
Yeah, I'm sorry about that. I still haven't figured out how to engage with Mag and I'm sure it will be better served if I just don't do that at all. I hope Mag finds the information you want whenever he's done with whatever 'reaction' or 'proof' he comes up with that my experiences are incorrect.
Does this skill have lingering camera controls.
Then looks like we both need to find video links for this
@NiKr I'm looking to try to find one, but like i said in these games it is skill based and we are talking about a taunt that is not skill based on tab target leaning in application.
Nah I'm good. I'm pretty sure NiKr believes me, the only other people in the thread have been HIT by this Ult at some point and know how it works.
I guess you just never reacted to it in time to experience what I refer to since you didn't play Paragon (I assume Paragon) that much. Have a good one.
1:34 you can see how they lose control of the camera, though this one is stronger since they can't cast skills and such or more with "WASD" it is a forced attack.
If they were moving away from them or not knowing hey were there they would be flipped around and forced to move to the target. In larger fights with a lot going on you would be pulled constantly with that kind of effect going on in a mmorpg sense. Even more so with the range that would be on the taunt.
So now, Mag, your ideal goal would be to find any and all feedback from smite players that complain about this mechanic. If you don't want to do that and will just say (as you have been) that "imagine 20 people doing that to you" - that is not an argument. And it's not because Intrepid have probably a dozen ways of designing the mechanic of such a taunt in a way where "20 people" can't just keep pulling your camera all over the place.
Also, the move of the screen itself doesn't have to be that jarring. It could be a slight slowish slide instead of an instant snap. Though even that is arguable, because either of those serve their own purposes in a fight.
That one is way smoother, so even less of a problem imo.
So yeah, if you manage to find feedback where people dislike this - I'll get your point much better. Right now I see literally no problem with a taunt that pulls your camera.
ALSO! Just to make sure that I'm clear here. What I'm suggesting (and I think what Noaani was suggesting) is just the movement of the camera. Your char doesn't move on its own, it's not being pulled physically or anything of the sort. Your camera just starts to move towards the tank that taunted you and it's your task to account for that in your movement/actions. Those smite players seemed to have been doing fine.
And as I've already said before, in all 12 years of me playing as (and against) a tank - I've not once seen more than 3 aggroing classes on one person. And I've participated in fights ranging in size from 9v9 to several hundred vs several hundred.
I do also honestly appreciate it, thank you for finding it.
My response also stays the same, Intrepid. That's perfectly fine with me, I don't consider it clunky or problematic. Even if multiple Tanks were taunting me, that moreso feels to me like they're wasting their ability, especially if it has a cooldown that's balanced around it.
I would request that this generally doesn't affect a person's camera facing more than once every 5 seconds even if there are many tanks timing it. Subject to testing, I'd be okay with this experience, but you should factor for 'higher than that' maybe since I have quite good reactions/spatial awareness.
I'll try to get some data from a 'slower' team member.
Before i go into depth on answering this are you suggesting that a mmorpg and the things that come with it, should have the same balancing as a moba design wise? (I'm not saying you have no cc protection).
This is an important question before I get into more details with one game being hybrid and one being full action. Why this question is important is how balancing is approached is greatly different between what a moba and a mmorpg will be doing as well as the scale of conflict.
Not a loaded question either you can say yes or no, but it will change how I approach answering.
This way each tank would have to pay a ton of attention to their target, if they wanted to chain-taunt it. And that seems like a perfect way to absolutely waste a ton of super valuable tank time. And if they don't try to perfectly space out their taunts, then they're either overlapping and wasting their CDs or their taunts are spread out more than 5s apart, at which point the effect is at a steady rate that a player can adjust to.
Ideally, this effect would also depend on a stat that has a counter-stat that reduces the speed of the pan (maybe even to 0). Could be a resistance buff as well, though I'd prefer just a stat relation, cause imo that would make the builds deeper and more interesting.
Honestly i think im reading wrong or something, did you say your camera pans every certain amount of seconds over the duration of a debuff?
And if you notice that you're the main target of taunts - you'd be able to build against them. This wasn't a thing in L2 afaik.
ok If the answer is no, what does other people playing smite with their opinions have to do with Camera affecting skills. As in the game their complains would be around smaller fights, non tab target skills (aka a taunt that is not a skill shots), and very minimal chance to encounter that kind of affect besides a characters I can count on one hand?
By default opinion and voices on it are not going to be as loud as there are 8 archetypes in AoC so we can say one in 1-8 to run into a tank. Where in smite it be like a 2-100 to run into it roughly.
(this is not to say there aren't voices by the way but based on how smite is being designed differently voices and complains might be else where again from a design stand point and the options of characters to pick..)
This sounds like a very tab idea mind set, my voice point is strong on it being once every 5-10 seconds even if that taunt lasted one second. This sounds like one of the most unenjoyable effects I've heard of though , please don't take offense to that but that is just how i see it.
Also, once again, classes don't matter and don't count, because they do not represent separate skillsets. It would just be "there's a tank", and that's it. And unless Intrepid truly succeed with their "1 of each" design, I'm not even sure how many parties will have tanks in their setups.
But even if Intrepid do succeed, that's still only 1 tank per party. So even in a huge 500v500, that's only 60 tanks for FIVE HUNDRED TARGETS OF ENEMIES. The mass literally doesn't add up to "omg there's 20 damn tanks on me who can all perfectly stagger their taunts in such a way that I'm constantly taunted".
Even 3 tanks on one target would mean that 3 whole-fucking-parties'-worth of tanks are controlling A SINGLE TARGET. All while literally anyone else on the field can attack those tanks' parties with them being defenseless.
I haven't played BDO nearly enough to know if they have any kind of party play or coordination, but I definitely feel like you think that you'd be the center of attention on a field of hundreds, instead of each of those people having their own target. In a party-based game, the party IS the target, so any incoming damage or CC or whatever else is spread across all 8 members, even if it's directed towards only a single character.
You do not exist in a vacuum.
Also, L2's aggro had a cd of 3 seconds on its effect. That's a tab effect. I adjusted that to a more actiony gameplay. Also also, if you see that you're being targeted by a tank - literally all you'd need to do is go into tab mode. Now your camera is not panning. You're still taunted, but at least you're not being disoriented. The beauty of hybrid combat system
The point is finding information on smite where it is designed different is going to be different than a mmorpg. My point is you already have a small subset to come up with, you aren't going to just find everyone complaining everwhere. Smite is a smaller moba > Other issues palyers complain about > Tons of hero selection > different game balance > amount of people playing as the character out of the 100+ others > people that annoyed > People that complain.
So are getting into such a small set it is going to be harder to find people complaining, as well as the game is designed different. If the skill worked how you had as for an idea that character would be considered one of the best character in the game tank wise. Everyone would be playing it since it be broken. Also people have a means to dodge the skills and such so they can chalk it up to their own skill and improve on it rather than just blame it on the skill itself.
Why i don't see there is a point just looking for people complaining since that can exist for anything and smite isn't big enough to rage over just a taunt on a single character. (the function of it still different than what im talking about. The taunt is a hard cc, what I'm also talking about is a taunt that is a cc that lets you use WASD since it is only controlling your camera and not really forcing you to attack)
https://www.reddit.com/r/Smite/comments/ascj5m/athena_taunt_needs_some_looking_at_and_i_dont/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Smite/comments/zfms1h/most_annoying_cc_in_the_game/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Smite/comments/1fui2d/athenas_taunt_the_most_annoying_thing_ever/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Smite/comments/lxftoy/what_do_you_think_about_athenas_upcoming_taunt/
I don't think this is valid (I'm unsure if they said you need one of each archtype, pretty sure they mean a mix in some variety with the different ways you can flex your class, but don't really want to get to into that that is another convo)
Why I don't think this is valid is because wars are not going to be just a one of each arch type and done. Based on the balance of the game, what is strong and what works and what you need. Armies are going to be created based off that. That was the case for NW when I was making our roster, things were not even, we had more bruisers and tanks for wars, healers, and some dmg mages. The weight of classes we had in are rooster was important and not balanced at all.
You think certain people don't get focused in wars even with everything going on? That is a fact that it can happen lol but also besides the point. The argument here I'm seeing if because there isn't a tank per person it isn't as bad. I view things equally it isn't about if it affects 10%-70% but how does that affect the gameplay experience per person. And it affects it badly, even more so if there was a debuff that did it multiple times over a duration.
Based on what you are saying with a single target we are assuming the taunts only affect one target? If we are talking about pve id expect plenty of aggro like skills, single taunts, and aoe taunts. I don't think we should be setting the bar the tank has one taunt and that is enough to handle very hard pve content.