Glorious Alpha Two Testers!

Alpha Two Realms are now unlocked for Phase II testing!

For our initial launch, testing will begin on Friday, December 20, 2024, at 10 AM Pacific and continue uninterrupted until Monday, January 6, 2025, at 10 AM Pacific. After January 6th, we’ll transition to a schedule of five-day-per-week access for the remainder of Phase II.

You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.

Casuals: There's no need to worry.

2

Comments

  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Liniker wrote: »
    Dygz wrote: »
    LMFAO
    Only people playing at launch are allowed to comment
    LMAO
    Again, you are incorrect.

  • OkeydokeOkeydoke Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited July 2023
    LOL it's fkn dygz

    See you on the 9th homie
  • LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Dygz wrote: »
    LMAO
    Again, you are incorrect.

    I'm just messing with you, haven't seen you around for a while I actually missed you man
    img]
    Recrutamento aberto - Nosso Site: Clique aqui
  • RedxviviRedxvivi Member, Alpha Two
    Liniker wrote: »
    Leaving the whole freehold situation aside, and speaking as a guild leader of a large competitive guild of over 1600 members;

    We often see conversations here that come from both casual and hardcore players but most often than not, they reflect worst-case scenarios of both sides, both of toxic guilds, griefers, as well as lazy or entitled solo players and are simply not reflective of an MMO's community overall.

    Yes, there are toxic players, griefers, and guilds that enjoy dominating and pushing away casual players because they feel superior - and there are also casual players who want to get everything without having to actually play the game, and want large groups of players to be punished by a game's design, but this is not reflective at all of the 2 groups of players.

    My guild for instance, and many, many other large guilds getting ready for AoC, want to compete for the highest objectives, my particular goal is to compete for a castle - and in a game like AoC, it would be very stupid to not look after the casual playerbase in our castle's region - by game design, we will be protecting casual players in our Region - and attacking players from Other regions - the same will happen with guilds in these other regions.

    I feel confident enough to say that most likely, the most successful Large Guilds in AoC will be the ones that actually understand that without support from the casual players in your region, you will not stay at the top for too long.

    This, of course, applies to freeholds as well, if a big guild is trying to dominate their region's economy getting all the freeholds they possibly can even tho it is not a necessity why should players in those regions support them? and why would the other big guilds not fight back? this makes no sense - and this is why conversations about these particular systems also don't make any sense

    and even for the largest guilds, it is absolutely ludicrous to think there will be +1000 or +2000 player guilds that are Only made of hardcore players that play 12h a day, tbh I don't think there will even be 2000 hardcore players in any server, usually the biggest guilds have a core for a few hundred HC players and the rest are *dedicated players that play for 3 to 4 hours a day, making them what most consider as a "casual". This is the case even in the most hardcore games like EVE, ARK or Mortal Online.

    AoC will be a game where politics is involved, and the best, biggest guilds that will "be in charge" won't be the guilds that push away casual players, those won't remain in charge for too long - and probably guilds that do that will probably be the smaller to medium "pk" or "red" guilds that will be constantly being put in their place by the top dogs.

    Remember, to hold the castle, there are weekly events that require support from other players in your region, there will be mayors that do not necessarily belong to your guild, and there will be world events and content that require good relations with other players, there's also guild drama which is responsible for 90% of guilds failing, and most often than not affects these guilds that are hated by their server even more.

    So I'd like to leave this message to reassure the casual players reading through these discussions, don't worry, you will be protected and you will be a valuable member of your node and community, and the best guilds on your server will make sure of it.

    I feel like you just pointed out why some players don't like this style of play. 1600 players? all zerging to one goal. You think you're not going to just crush reg. players as you push by to get what you want. Then what you're going to sit there and just act like you're there to help them?? that's just nonsense. Your guild and others like it will do what you want and once you're happy will you think about other players. Not one guild in any game ever created has ever cared about players out of their guild till after they were done getting what they wanted. New World is a prime example of how this play style can fail.

    Me personally I am a solo player done the guild thing don't mind it. But from all the talk of Steven saying you will still be able to do what guilds do as a solo player for the most part is what really brings me to this game. I am not dumb enough to think I'll own a castle or anything of that level. But as a solo I think I should be able to compete with anyone for a freehold. If i gather the needed items and complete the required quest line, I should be able to compete. I don't think anyone is asking for too much to be abler to pursue their professions max capabilities. And I realize that we are talking about a game that hasn't found its footing yet. But it is better to put as many possible negative scenarios away.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited July 2023
    Yep. I figured.
    Yeah, Fantmx has me playing a couple other games.
    And, since Februrary, I have dance classes 6 nights per week - in addition to my IT job 6 days per week.
    So... the forums ended up taking a back seat for a while, but...

    I still got everybody's back.
    I'm hoping Fantm will get to ask some of your questions.
    I think he has at least one of yours on his list.
    (I've got Neurath and Nerror on my list - along with a few others.)

  • LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited July 2023
    Vyril wrote: »
    Tell us when you chose a server. I don't want to play on it. That will likely be a boring server to play on.
    Redxvivi wrote: »
    Your guild and others like it will do what you want and once you're happy will you think about other players. Not one guild in any game ever created has ever cared about players out of their guild till after they were done getting what they wanted. New World is a prime example of how this play style can fail.

    well... I'm sorry to tell you guys but, the person making AoC, Steven, used to lead guilds larger than that in all of his gaming career, that's his background as a gamer....

    I'm not sure if hating the bare existence of large guilds and supporting a game made by a guild leader of massive guilds is a good idea - but as I explained in my OP, not all large guilds are brainless zergs that seek the destruction of their server and casual players lol
    img]
    Recrutamento aberto - Nosso Site: Clique aqui
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    edited July 2023
    Liniker wrote: »
    Vyril wrote: »
    Tell us when you chose a server. I don't want to play on it. That will likely be a boring server to play on.
    Redxvivi wrote: »
    Your guild and others like it will do what you want and once you're happy will you think about other players. Not one guild in any game ever created has ever cared about players out of their guild till after they were done getting what they wanted. New World is a prime example of how this play style can fail.

    well... I'm sorry to tell you guys but, the person making AoC, Steven, used to lead guilds larger than that in all of his gaming career, that's his background as a gamer....

    I'm not sure if hating the bare existence of large guilds and supporting a game made by a guild leader of massive guilds is a good idea - but as I explained in my OP, not all large guilds are brainless zergs that seek the destruction of their server and casual players lol

    While this is true, he has also labeled guilds such as his (and his specifically) as toxic to the over all MMORPG they exist in, and is something he wants to discourage in Ashes.

    I think you'll agree that he is doing a poor job of this so far, but eventually something will be added or changed to make it harder for mega-guilds to exist in Ashes.
  • LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited July 2023
    Noaani wrote: »
    While this is true, he has also labeled guilds such as his (and his specifically) as toxic to the over all MMORPG they exist in, and is something he wants to discourage in Ashes.

    Do you have a quote for that?

    I find it hard to believe that a guild leader that decided to make his own game and even brought in some of his guild mates as devs and went on making his game based around guild politics, wars, sieges - considers his guild "toxic"

    one thing is creating systems to discourage server domination, we all want that, nobody likes stagnation and lack of competition, but its a completely different thing pulling the "toxic" argument as if Steven or AoC is fundamentally against large guilds
    img]
    Recrutamento aberto - Nosso Site: Clique aqui
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    edited July 2023
    Liniker wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    While this is true, he has also labeled guilds such as his (and his specifically) as toxic to the over all MMORPG they exist in, and is something he wants to discourage in Ashes.

    Do you have a quote for that?
    Absolutely not at all.

    Stevens comments on his guild are not on the wiki, they were either from an early livestream, interview or Pax panel. Dont remember which. All I know is it was before mid-2019 because that is when I stopped having time to watch everything about this game.

    I'm sure you'll now want to say something about "well then, I don't believe you", which is fine, I don't want you to believe me. You can keep on thinking that Steven wants large guilds.

    The thing is, you're smart(ish), and while you are sitting there thinking to yourself "obviously Steven wants large guilds in the game, that is how he plays MMO's!" one day (potentially while reading this post) you'll think to yourself "if Steven wants large guilds in Ashes, why is the current guild cap set to 300? Why is he giving people benefits for being in small guilds? These don't sound like the things someone that wants a large guild would do in their own game!". I mean, you will rightly reason that these things do not need to exist, yet they exist in Stevens game.

    And then when you have that thought, you won't know. You'll not know if your 1600 person guild will be viable in Ashes, or if it is the kind of thing Steven will want to develop out of feasability at some distant point in the future.

    You'll have days where you think "obviously Steven wants large guilds!", but then you'll have other days where you think "then why even have a cap?".

    But hey, maybe this won't bug you at all. Its great if that is the case. Then again, maybe it will. Maybe during some livestream in the future you'll find yourself having to ask (or get others to ask for you) about Intrepids intentions for large guilds, whether they will be viable or not.

    The thing is, until they flesh out guilds more (literally one of the last things in development), the only answer you will get is a non-answer along the lines of "we want smaller guilds to not feel handicapped against larger guilds" or "we feel that 300 players is enough in a guild, but if you want multiple guilds, we aren't stopping that".

    So, assuming your plan for Ashes is a 1600 person guild, you won't actually know if Ashes is going to support the way you want to play the game until late beta.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Liniker wrote: »
    Do you have a quote for that?

    I find it hard to believe that a guild leader that decided to make his own game and even brought in some of his guild mates as devs and went on making his game based around guild politics, wars, sieges - considers his guild "toxic"

    one thing is creating systems to discourage server domination, we all want that, nobody likes stagnation and lack of competition, but its a completely different thing pulling the "toxic" argument as if Steven or AoC is fundamentally against large guilds
    I don't have a quote for it either, but Steven has mentioned a few times that he was a toxic player back when he was playing Lineage II and he hopes most Ashes players will not be as toxic as he was.
    IIRC, a couple of those times were on cam with Margaret between the start of 2019 and the end of 2021.
    If I stumble upon one of those quotes, I'll try to remember to share it here for you.

  • KilionKilion Member, Alpha Two
    Big guild player: Reaching out to the rest of the community to tell them he happily cooperates with people and doesn't to force a whole server into submission.

    Rest of the Community: How dare you?! XD

    The answer is probably >>> HERE <<<
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Kilion wrote: »
    Big guild player: Reaching out to the rest of the community to tell them he happily cooperates with people and doesn't to force a whole server into submission.

    Rest of the Community: How dare you?! XD

    If you played Archeage in the first few weeks, you'd probably tell any big guild leader looking for new players before a game launches to just fuck off.

    90% of large guild looking to recruit openly are wanting to exploit those new recruits. This was really bad in Archeage - any player complaining about the thunderstruck tree change in that game was almost definately exploiting others.
  • Noaani wrote: »
    any player complaining about the thunderstruck tree change in that game was almost definately exploiting others.

    How so? I'm actually quite curious about this statement.
    6wtxguK.jpg
    Aren't we all sinners?
  • Liniker wrote: »
    I'll have to be brutally honest. For me, hearing anything from anyone representing 1600 players in a game designed with guilds with a max-cap of 300 people is never going to feel reassuring :) Quite the opposite.
    At that point, you could tell me the sky is gonna be blue and that's probably still going to make me worry for the future.
  • PherPhurPherPhur Member
    edited July 2023
    Okeydoke wrote: »
    LOL it's fkn dygz

    See you on the 9th homie

    Dygz??? @Dygz I thought you weren't playing anymore?

    That lawless open ocean call to you in your dreams?
    5lntw0unofqp.gif
  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    Dhaiwon wrote: »
    Liniker wrote: »
    I'll have to be brutally honest. For me, hearing anything from anyone representing 1600 players in a game designed with guilds with a max-cap of 300 people is never going to feel reassuring :) Quite the opposite.
    At that point, you could tell me the sky is gonna be blue and that's probably still going to make me worry for the future.

    tf?
  • Depraved wrote: »
    Is that really so strange?
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    edited July 2023
    Noaani wrote: »
    any player complaining about the thunderstruck tree change in that game was almost definately exploiting others.

    How so? I'm actually quite curious about this statement.

    The thunderstruck market in early Ashes was cornered by people that would trick those whom didn't know better in to planting massive "illegal" forests, and these people would then fly over just after thunderstruck trees were due to spawn - which was still about 12 hours before the trees were mature for harvest.

    These people would then pluck the thunderstruck trees, and were able to corner the market with that, buying the few that were produced naturally on farms, and inflating the price (thunderstruck trees were about 30 times the price as they were at the same period in Korea for this reason).

    The addition of archeum trees on the store that had a 10% chance to spawn as thunderstruck was an attempt (a successful one) to stop this exploitation.

    I'm sure there were a few people that were upset that the very few thunderstruck trees they got naturally on their farm were now worth less than previously, but the people that exploited others were the ones that were really upset.

    Both continents had multiple of these tree farms on literally every server, just by the way. It was rampant exploitation of players on a level that I have not seen or heard of exiting in any other game. It negatively affected literally thousands of players.

    Truthfully, with how quickly XL and Trion fixed the issue, they should be applauded. The fact that they put it on the cash shop was somewhat unfortunate, but something drastic did need to be done.

    Edit to add; initially Trion were fine with this kind of thing, and later on they were fine with it on a smaller scale as well. It was the scale of this exploitation (note; exploitation of players, not of game systems) that they took issue with here.
  • Noaani wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    any player complaining about the thunderstruck tree change in that game was almost definately exploiting others.

    How so? I'm actually quite curious about this statement.

    The thunderstruck market in early Ashes was cornered by people that would trick those whom didn't know better in to planting massive "illegal" forests, and these people would then fly over just after thunderstruck trees were due to spawn - which was still about 12 hours before the trees were mature for harvest.

    These people would then pluck the thunderstruck trees, and were able to corner the market with that, buying the few that were produced naturally on farms, and inflating the price (thunderstruck trees were about 30 times the price as they were at the same period in Korea for this reason).

    The addition of archeum trees on the store that had a 10% chance to spawn as thunderstruck was an attempt (a successful one) to stop this exploitation.

    I'm sure there were a few people that were upset that the very few thunderstruck trees they got naturally on their farm were now worth less than previously, but the people that exploited others were the ones that were really upset.

    Both continents had multiple of these tree farms on literally every server, just by the way. It was rampant exploitation of players on a level that I have not seen or heard of exiting in any other game. It negatively affected literally thousands of players.

    Truthfully, with how quickly XL and Trion fixed the issue, they should be applauded. The fact that they put it on the cash shop was somewhat unfortunate, but something drastic did need to be done.

    Edit to add; initially Trion were fine with this kind of thing, and later on they were fine with it on a smaller scale as well. It was the scale of this exploitation (note; exploitation of players, not of game systems) that they took issue with here.

    Oh i heard histories about it, but only on less competitive/populated AA servers it was far less prevalent in the giga-competitive ones as far as i remember due to the constant mapping/parsing of illegal farms by multiple players checking illegal sprouts timers across the maps, some would spent their whole day going around checking for those and pvpping for them everywhere possible making their money out of it.

    As for the majority of people's hatred for the thunderstruck change it was definitely tied to it's Pay2Win insertion in the cash shop, the players were already mad AF with the P2W shop, for many this was the last straw. This is actually the first time i ever read someone putting the blame of people's hatred for the thunderstruck change in this "exploitation" instead of it being P2W.
    6wtxguK.jpg
    Aren't we all sinners?
  • VeeshanVeeshan Member, Alpha Two
    Casual players can just watch the world burn from the side line when guild politics starts a giant world war :P it happened in other game with similiar system such as darkfall :P
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    edited July 2023
    This is actually the first time i ever read someone putting the blame of people's hatred for the thunderstruck change in this "exploitation" instead of it being P2W.
    The bulk of the money Trion made from the change was due to cutting off the loss of subs, not from the trees themselves.

    The way they set it up, buying those trees were never the most efficient way to get a thundertruck tree off the shop. You were better off buying other items (the exact item varied over time), selling them and buying a tree.

    The idea is that they were there to act as a limiter, not to act as a primary means of acquisition.

    And yeah, not many people really understood this at the time - and to be fair, I didn't exactly speak up.

    The thing with that is though, people on the internet just want to shout their anger in to some dark box, have someone yell back that they are angry at the same thing, and then both of them can feel happy in the idea that they are not the only ones angry at the thing. People want their anger justified, they don't want things properly explained to them.
  • LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited July 2023
    Noaani wrote: »

    I'm sure you'll now want to say something about "well then, I don't believe you", which is fine, I don't want you to believe me. You can keep on thinking that Steven wants large guilds.

    I don't think you are the kind of person that lies I do believe you - I just think you interpret things your way in some occasions and form opinions that you consider to be facts, I was asking for a quote because of context

    as for your input on large guilds, well, let me tell you there are people close to Steven ever since 2017 including PI's that have guilds larger than mine, they have been participating in all testing phases, doing Q&As we even have a discord with over 100 different Guild Leaders for AoC, from EU to NA to OCE, and there are many, many guilds with 1000 to 2000 members,

    I can assure you, Ashes of Creation is a game for large guilds, even tho they might have systems to try and break the "zerg" mentally with no teleports, there is not a universe where large guilds won't exist in a game that I honestly consider the fantasy version of EVE Online

    with that being said, my post remains true for all of those big guilds, we are not interested in screwing with casuals and pushing them out

    we will be protecting our region and trying to keep people happy thats literally just being smart... this whole "zerg killing the server" thing does not apply in a game where guilds Need support from others and need to maintain a good reputation
    img]
    Recrutamento aberto - Nosso Site: Clique aqui
  • LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Kilion wrote: »
    Big guild player: Reaching out to the rest of the community to tell them he happily cooperates with people and doesn't to force a whole server into submission.

    Rest of the Community: How dare you?! XD

    lol ikr

    makes no fucking sense :D
    img]
    Recrutamento aberto - Nosso Site: Clique aqui
  • RedxviviRedxvivi Member, Alpha Two
    Liniker wrote: »
    Vyril wrote: »
    Tell us when you chose a server. I don't want to play on it. That will likely be a boring server to play on.
    Redxvivi wrote: »
    Your guild and others like it will do what you want and once you're happy will you think about other players. Not one guild in any game ever created has ever cared about players out of their guild till after they were done getting what they wanted. New World is a prime example of how this play style can fail.

    well... I'm sorry to tell you guys but, the person making AoC, Steven, used to lead guilds larger than that in all of his gaming career, that's his background as a gamer....

    I'm not sure if hating the bare existence of large guilds and supporting a game made by a guild leader of massive guilds is a good idea - but as I explained in my OP, not all large guilds are brainless zergs that seek the destruction of their server and casual players lol

    Didn't he himself say he was a bit of a toxic player? Which would translate to his guilds being toxic to some extent. Most guilds emulate their leaders. I just want to avoid these large scale guilds getting out of control cause you can't honestly say you'll keep all your members in check. Thats the major issue I see from large guilds. They are so involved in their check list that they just let their guildies do as they please, cause the extra work ain't worth the trouble.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Dygz??? @Dygz I thought you weren't playing anymore?

    That lawless open ocean call to you in your dreams?
    Sounds like you thought wrong or can't read.
    I said the Open Seas is a deal-breaker for me to play the game, but I will still be testing the game.
    I don't play MMORPGs that only have a single server type with permanent auto-flag PvP zones.
    Though I like PvP sometimes, I typically move from PvP-optional servers to PvE-Only servers.
    Ashes has other features and mechanics I want to test.
  • DolyemDolyem Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Dygz wrote: »
    Yep. I figured.
    Yeah, Fantmx has me playing a couple other games.
    And, since Februrary, I have dance classes 6 nights per week - in addition to my IT job 6 days per week.
    So... the forums ended up taking a back seat for a while, but...

    I still got everybody's back.
    I'm hoping Fantm will get to ask some of your questions.
    I think he has at least one of yours on his list.
    (I've got Neurath and Nerror on my list - along with a few others.)

    Dude I feel this. 60 hour work weeks while also planning out like 2 or 3 more business has got me booked. Haven't been on here for months. I'll definitely tune in.
    GJjUGHx.gif
  • VoeltzVoeltz Member
    edited July 2023
    Liniker wrote: »
    speaking as a guild leader of a large competitive guild of over 1600 members;
    Yikes. Didn't realize you were THAT big of a zerg herder. Now it all makes sense. Funny, I had to deal with a Brazilian zerg guild of 1000 players back in Archeage which was outright toxic. Completely ruined half the game. Hopefully Ashes doesn't degenerate that far.

  • iccericcer Member
    edited July 2023
    Liniker wrote: »

    with that being said, my post remains true for all of those big guilds, we are not interested in screwing with casuals and pushing them out

    This seems to be a recurring theme here.

    Yes, you might not be interested in that, but you will ultimately end up unwillingly/unknowingly doing it.

    It's the same argument with Freeholds. Yes you will be able to get one. But realistically, keep dreaming pal, as you won't get it.

    You refuse to acknowledge what will happen in reality when the game goes live. You keep talking about "theoretical" stuff, and in theory you are correct about most of the stuff.
  • FantmxFantmx Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Come with me my pretties. I will take care of you, said the wolf to the flock. 😈
    q1nu38cjgq3j.png
  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    iccer wrote: »
    Liniker wrote: »

    with that being said, my post remains true for all of those big guilds, we are not interested in screwing with casuals and pushing them out

    This seems to be a recurring theme here.

    Yes, you might not be interested in that, but you will ultimately end up unwillingly/unknowingly doing it.

    It's the same argument with Freeholds. Yes you will be able to get one. But realistically, keep dreaming pal, as you won't get it.

    You refuse to acknowledge what will happen in reality when the game goes live. You keep talking about "theoretical" stuff, and in theory you are correct about most of the stuff.

    so whats the solution in a game where you have to compete for others for resources, to let other people take things from you? then that makes them the ones taking the stuff...

    who should take things then? how can we decide who should take things, who should win and who should lose? and you cant say everybody should win or take things, since this is a different type of game.
Sign In or Register to comment.