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Casuals: There's no need to worry.

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Comments

  • iccericcer Member
    edited July 2023
    Depraved wrote: »
    iccer wrote: »
    Liniker wrote: »

    with that being said, my post remains true for all of those big guilds, we are not interested in screwing with casuals and pushing them out

    This seems to be a recurring theme here.

    Yes, you might not be interested in that, but you will ultimately end up unwillingly/unknowingly doing it.

    It's the same argument with Freeholds. Yes you will be able to get one. But realistically, keep dreaming pal, as you won't get it.

    You refuse to acknowledge what will happen in reality when the game goes live. You keep talking about "theoretical" stuff, and in theory you are correct about most of the stuff.

    so whats the solution in a game where you have to compete for others for resources, to let other people take things from you? then that makes them the ones taking the stuff...

    who should take things then? how can we decide who should take things, who should win and who should lose? and you cant say everybody should win or take things, since this is a different type of game.

    what


    The solution is to not be so delusional about how things will play out in game, for a start.


    I'm not arguing about whether the game should or shouldn't allow them to inevitably screw over a certain amount of players.

  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    edited July 2023
    ah ok. but thats what i mean. if they win someone will lose....
  • AbaratAbarat Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    the max number of people in a guild will be 300. Guild alliances will be a thing, but that gets more complicated from a people, personality perspective.

    Even to get to 300, you will likely need to pass up on other perks.
  • BlackBronyBlackBrony Member, Alpha Two
    Abarat wrote: »
    the max number of people in a guild will be 300. Guild alliances will be a thing, but that gets more complicated from a people, personality perspective.

    Even to get to 300, you will likely need to pass up on other perks.

    It is always best to belong to the largest group. Str in numbers.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    edited July 2023
    Liniker wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »

    I'm sure you'll now want to say something about "well then, I don't believe you", which is fine, I don't want you to believe me. You can keep on thinking that Steven wants large guilds.

    I don't think you are the kind of person that lies I do believe you - I just think you interpret things your way in some occasions and form opinions that you consider to be facts, I was asking for a quote because of context

    as for your input on large guilds, well, let me tell you there are people close to Steven ever since 2017 including PI's that have guilds larger than mine, they have been participating in all testing phases, doing Q&As we even have a discord with over 100 different Guild Leaders for AoC, from EU to NA to OCE, and there are many, many guilds with 1000 to 2000 members,

    I can assure you, Ashes of Creation is a game for large guilds, even tho they might have systems to try and break the "zerg" mentally with no teleports, there is not a universe where large guilds won't exist in a game that I honestly consider the fantasy version of EVE Online

    with that being said, my post remains true for all of those big guilds, we are not interested in screwing with casuals and pushing them out

    we will be protecting our region and trying to keep people happy thats literally just being smart... this whole "zerg killing the server" thing does not apply in a game where guilds Need support from others and need to maintain a good reputation

    There are aspects of this post that are completely off, and also aspects of it that are on point.

    Guilds do indeed need others. They need people to be agents in the functioning economy, if nothing else.

    If you need to give an NPC 50k gold for something, the best way for you to acquire that 50k gold is to produce something other players want and sell it to them. Generating new gold is an option, but is almost always going to take longer.

    This very fact is the reason I have been arguing that freeholds need to be made more available to players.

    Freeholds are the means by which a plurality of players will interact with the games economy. It is the part of the economy people were looking forward to.

    There are other things that are needed in order for this whole sustainable economy to exist, but in a game like Ashes, land being available to most if they want it is actually kind of key.

    It's like, you understand that you need other people, yet you seem to not understand what those people want from a game.
  • -T0Mb--T0Mb- Member, Alpha Two
    NiKr wrote: »
    And anyone who just wants to chill with me in a divine node in the snowy mountains (of potentially Sujoma) - come join my super casual node guild.

    This message was brought to you by a person that somehow got the biggest guild on an L2 server by just saying "if you don't put pressure me on what this guild supposed to be - I won't pressure you on what you should do in the game".

    I hope we will see the node map in the next livestream. I'm also interested living in Sujoma and I would like to know how many nodes Intrepid is going to place into Sujoma. B)
  • TheDarkSorcererTheDarkSorcerer Member, Alpha Two
    edited July 2023
    I'm not entitled or lazy, I'm just a solo player enjoying playing alone but amongst others. :trollface:
    m6jque7ofxxf.gif
  • LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Noaani wrote: »

    Freeholds are the means by which a plurality of players will interact with the games economy. It is the part of the economy people were looking forward to.

    There are other things that are needed in order for this whole sustainable economy to exist, but in a game like Ashes, land being available to most if they want it is actually kind of key.

    It's like, you understand that you need other people, yet you seem to not understand what those people want from a game.

    This is wrong Noaani, and you don't understand enough about the game to even speculate. Do you honestly think Intrepid's development team, multiple people with many years of experience making a game centered around the economy would not take a "key" element into account but you, a player, figured this out on your own without even testing the game or actually knowing how the system works? they gave us a very, very limited overview on the system that's it.

    They are literally making T4 and T5 available to over 30% of a server's playerbase, you still have gathering and processing, does 30% sound game-breaking to you? and even if it does, do you have any data to support that? What data you have to make statements about the economy of a game you know pretty much nothing about besides small bits of information that the developers provide you with?

    Now, as for me not understanding what people want from a game - I do understand. I understand that if intrepid wanted to make more money, have a more successful game - they should give freeholds to all 50k players - they should make PVE servers or OPT IN PvP - they should have fast travels - they should have instanced raids dungeons to be like 60% - they should be a free-to-play game with battle pass/VIP and sell an acceptable amount of convenience items

    But do I want that? of fucking course not. I don't want another MMORPG doing what everyone does do get the masses. I want something different, I want Steven's vision of an MMO with risk vs reward and meaningful content. Limited freeholds fits that vision perfectly. Is that gonna be accepted by the majority? NO, does it needs to be? EVE Online has been around for over 20 years.

    You don't need to have Millions of players to be successful and I do not believe freeholds is a "make or break" system I do not believe people won't play because they need to put in the work or join a guild for a freehold and I think people that say that are doing it out of frustration to try and get intrepid to do changes, but they will be there at launch, we all know it.
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  • RazThemunRazThemun Member, Alpha Two
    Just looking at my guild I can see how their system will benefit both the casual community and the hardcore community. The same way the pve and pvp community can both mutually benefit. Group 1 loves to craft and they want to spend all their time maxing out their crafting professions.... This creates a consistent need/supply of resources! Group 1 may not have the time or desire to not only go out and and gather the resources, but also fight off the enemy also wanting those same resources! End result is someone who is a hardcore crafter, will need to create relationships with (Group 2) those who gather a resource (could be a group of casuals online at the same time, or an odd time that benefits the gathering process) As well as creating relations with (group 3) those who pvp to help fend off attackers so allies can continue gathering their resources.
    The end goal can be the same for all 3 groups but they each are handling a piece of the pie to get the end result.
  • BlackBronyBlackBrony Member, Alpha Two
    RazThemun wrote: »
    Just looking at my guild I can see how their system will benefit both the casual community and the hardcore community. The same way the pve and pvp community can both mutually benefit. Group 1 loves to craft and they want to spend all their time maxing out their crafting professions.... This creates a consistent need/supply of resources! Group 1 may not have the time or desire to not only go out and and gather the resources, but also fight off the enemy also wanting those same resources! End result is someone who is a hardcore crafter, will need to create relationships with (Group 2) those who gather a resource (could be a group of casuals online at the same time, or an odd time that benefits the gathering process) As well as creating relations with (group 3) those who pvp to help fend off attackers so allies can continue gathering their resources.
    The end goal can be the same for all 3 groups but they each are handling a piece of the pie to get the end result.

    You don't need casuals, they bring nothing. Hcs will cover all their roles. Plus, I seriously doubt that guilds, who will control markets, will pay good prices for base materials who ANYONE can gather.
    Yes, anyone can be a master gatherer, no restriction. Meanwhile to be processors you need a freehold. So guess who's mats are gonna be valuable and expensive?
  • Sybil_LanelSybil_Lanel Member, Alpha Two
    Liniker wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »

    I'm sure you'll now want to say something about "well then, I don't believe you", which is fine, I don't want you to believe me. You can keep on thinking that Steven wants large guilds.

    I don't think you are the kind of person that lies I do believe you - I just think you interpret things your way in some occasions and form opinions that you consider to be facts, I was asking for a quote because of context

    as for your input on large guilds, well, let me tell you there are people close to Steven ever since 2017 including PI's that have guilds larger than mine, they have been participating in all testing phases, doing Q&As we even have a discord with over 100 different Guild Leaders for AoC, from EU to NA to OCE, and there are many, many guilds with 1000 to 2000 members,

    I can assure you, Ashes of Creation is a game for large guilds, even tho they might have systems to try and break the "zerg" mentally with no teleports, there is not a universe where large guilds won't exist in a game that I honestly consider the fantasy version of EVE Online

    with that being said, my post remains true for all of those big guilds, we are not interested in screwing with casuals and pushing them out

    we will be protecting our region and trying to keep people happy thats literally just being smart... this whole "zerg killing the server" thing does not apply in a game where guilds Need support from others and need to maintain a good reputation

    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Guilds
    This is the official wiki page for Ashes of Creation. Hopefully some of the information here helps. It does seem the game is designed with 300 capped guilds in mind.
  • Sybil_LanelSybil_Lanel Member, Alpha Two
    BlackBrony wrote: »
    RazThemun wrote: »
    Just looking at my guild I can see how their system will benefit both the casual community and the hardcore community. The same way the pve and pvp community can both mutually benefit. Group 1 loves to craft and they want to spend all their time maxing out their crafting professions.... This creates a consistent need/supply of resources! Group 1 may not have the time or desire to not only go out and and gather the resources, but also fight off the enemy also wanting those same resources! End result is someone who is a hardcore crafter, will need to create relationships with (Group 2) those who gather a resource (could be a group of casuals online at the same time, or an odd time that benefits the gathering process) As well as creating relations with (group 3) those who pvp to help fend off attackers so allies can continue gathering their resources.
    The end goal can be the same for all 3 groups but they each are handling a piece of the pie to get the end result.

    You don't need casuals, they bring nothing. Hcs will cover all their roles. Plus, I seriously doubt that guilds, who will control markets, will pay good prices for base materials who ANYONE can gather.
    Yes, anyone can be a master gatherer, no restriction. Meanwhile to be processors you need a freehold. So guess who's mats are gonna be valuable and expensive?

    Wrong you do need casuals. They fill up the world and keep Intrepids bank account full. Weather you agree or not casuals will keep the game alive.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    edited July 2023
    Liniker wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »

    Freeholds are the means by which a plurality of players will interact with the games economy. It is the part of the economy people were looking forward to.

    There are other things that are needed in order for this whole sustainable economy to exist, but in a game like Ashes, land being available to most if they want it is actually kind of key.

    It's like, you understand that you need other people, yet you seem to not understand what those people want from a game.

    This is wrong Noaani, and you don't understand enough about the game to even speculate. Do you honestly think Intrepid's development team, multiple people with many years of experience making a game centered around the economy would not take a "key" element into account but you, a player, figured this out on your own without even testing the game or actually knowing how the system works? they gave us a very, very limited overview on the system that's it.

    No, I do not think that.

    What I think is that the system isnt finished.

    Fairly sure I've said this many times in discussion with you.

    The honestly unbelievable thing is you thinking that those same developers with years of experience would consider what we know of now as being finished.
  • LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Noaani wrote: »

    The honestly unbelievable thing is you thinking that those same developers with years of experience would consider what we know of now as being finished.

    who tf said that?

    I said we don't know enough about the system to be making the ludicrous statements you made and to ask for changes on something you have no idea how is it gonna actually play out lol

    I never said the devs consider what we know as finished, that makes absolutely no sense
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  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Liniker wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »

    The honestly unbelievable thing is you thinking that those same developers with years of experience would consider what we know of now as being finished.

    who tf said that?

    I said we don't know enough about the system to be making the ludicrous statements you made and to ask for changes on something you have no idea how is it gonna actually play out lol

    I never said the devs consider what we know as finished, that makes absolutely no sense

    So, if you assume the system isnt finished, and if I have said the system isnt finished, why would you assume I think the system is finished?

    If you dont assume I think it is finished, then your previous post makes no sense.
  • BlackBronyBlackBrony Member, Alpha Two
    BlackBrony wrote: »
    RazThemun wrote: »
    Just looking at my guild I can see how their system will benefit both the casual community and the hardcore community. The same way the pve and pvp community can both mutually benefit. Group 1 loves to craft and they want to spend all their time maxing out their crafting professions.... This creates a consistent need/supply of resources! Group 1 may not have the time or desire to not only go out and and gather the resources, but also fight off the enemy also wanting those same resources! End result is someone who is a hardcore crafter, will need to create relationships with (Group 2) those who gather a resource (could be a group of casuals online at the same time, or an odd time that benefits the gathering process) As well as creating relations with (group 3) those who pvp to help fend off attackers so allies can continue gathering their resources.
    The end goal can be the same for all 3 groups but they each are handling a piece of the pie to get the end result.

    You don't need casuals, they bring nothing. Hcs will cover all their roles. Plus, I seriously doubt that guilds, who will control markets, will pay good prices for base materials who ANYONE can gather.
    Yes, anyone can be a master gatherer, no restriction. Meanwhile to be processors you need a freehold. So guess who's mats are gonna be valuable and expensive?

    Wrong you do need casuals. They fill up the world and keep Intrepids bank account full. Weather you agree or not casuals will keep the game alive.

    Casuals will get obliterated by PvP guilds when farming, or when some guild feels like.
    Casuals won't have access to any freeholds or static housing, and their impact on any node siege is minimal. What sense of accomplishment will you get when defending a node with your guilds of 50, whithout gear? The people who defended the node were those belonging to large guilds.
    Casuals are just NPCs, that's the reality.
  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    BlackBrony wrote: »
    BlackBrony wrote: »
    RazThemun wrote: »
    Just looking at my guild I can see how their system will benefit both the casual community and the hardcore community. The same way the pve and pvp community can both mutually benefit. Group 1 loves to craft and they want to spend all their time maxing out their crafting professions.... This creates a consistent need/supply of resources! Group 1 may not have the time or desire to not only go out and and gather the resources, but also fight off the enemy also wanting those same resources! End result is someone who is a hardcore crafter, will need to create relationships with (Group 2) those who gather a resource (could be a group of casuals online at the same time, or an odd time that benefits the gathering process) As well as creating relations with (group 3) those who pvp to help fend off attackers so allies can continue gathering their resources.
    The end goal can be the same for all 3 groups but they each are handling a piece of the pie to get the end result.

    You don't need casuals, they bring nothing. Hcs will cover all their roles. Plus, I seriously doubt that guilds, who will control markets, will pay good prices for base materials who ANYONE can gather.
    Yes, anyone can be a master gatherer, no restriction. Meanwhile to be processors you need a freehold. So guess who's mats are gonna be valuable and expensive?

    Wrong you do need casuals. They fill up the world and keep Intrepids bank account full. Weather you agree or not casuals will keep the game alive.

    Casuals will get obliterated by PvP guilds when farming, or when some guild feels like.
    Casuals won't have access to any freeholds or static housing, and their impact on any node siege is minimal. What sense of accomplishment will you get when defending a node with your guilds of 50, whithout gear? The people who defended the node were those belonging to large guilds.
    Casuals are just NPCs, that's the reality.

    Games where this is true don't last long. I come from the most hardcore PvP scenes, they don't have a massive population.

    Zerglord guilds with the slighty above average players think they're a 1%er, the feeders won't get their crumbs allotment if they disrupt their own node. None of the leadership running those funnel operations are going the slighty above average guy disrupt the operation.

    And elite players don't associate with casuals in any form because they're never near each other and they're using their resources in completely different ways.





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