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Comments
Since this thread has different focus i can explain other elements.
First there is no reason why people that have better skills, comms, organization, gear, levels, players wouldn't win a fight against people that are more casual. This is just the nature of when you have pvp in games mixed with how mmorpgs are with progression. Do to AoC having a estimated 45 day levleing, gear, and enhancing gear (most likely rng enchanting which heavily pushes things towards people throwing time). There is going to be a larger gap between different elements of players. You might not like to hear this but its just the truth, you shouldn't view you should beat these people imo (doesn't mean you can't have fun challenging them). Imo though its good to have different levels of players so if you do beat one or if one with with you it can adda certain kind of feeling.
Though personally I don't think this is too much of a big worry, do to how AoC is doing things having kingdoms. Since there isn't in fighting between nodes as you can NOT attack a node that is vassal to your parent its going to be like various kingdoms around the map. So though you will be fighting try hards, you will also have try hards to call upon and fight with you as well at times, or other various nodes to get help from if you have good connections with your vassals. When people are more coaxed to work together that happening will be a lot more easy since nodes aren't all free for all and can just attack all nodes around them. Making it so even if a try hard guild is near your node, you don't need a worry about them attacking you meaning less conflict that might push you away.
Another element that can be added to try to prevent people from war logging every war or trying with superior skills being able to easily attack every node not part of their kingdom. Is has nodes have different tiers you can have fights more focused on even tiers or punching up towards a higher tier node. Allowing fights to be a bit more even and competitive so different strengths of nodes and player types have chances to do wars and such. There would easily be able to have various ways to limit who many wars a person does, how many people they can take as mercs and other limits.
It really shouldn't be fully viewed as this guild is decing a node, but a node decing another node imo since that makes the most sense (even though the guild would have got the resources to dec it and such for a siege).
To cap this off I really think people need to stop thinking they need to have weird elements to beat "elitist" players as its really not that simple. IF you are advocating to make them game more "casual" than you need to look at certain systems of progression and convince the devs to reduce the difficulty of them so there is less gear gap and less time to progress. (ie shorter leveling, easier gear acquisition, more simple systems, etc,. Not that im for any of that stuff cause im more on the hardcore side). Even if everything was made to be easier i still don't see hardcore guilds losing btw, as skill and communication is very powerful and casuals aren't going to have that compared to hardcore players. Hence why i say have different tiers of fights to reduce the element of more skilled players being at every fight.
It also made People into "Kings" who are just the sweattiest Sweatlords that usually Nobody wants to know. I agree with that Comment of Dripyula. I do not want "Overlord the MMO". Enough of that stuff.
While others fear exactly that,
(others who usually also don't to know any of us, lol)
this is why i hope for the HUUUGE MASSES of Casuals shaping and deciding the Fate of the Server and not just one or a few Elitist-Mindset Guilds with No-Lifer Workaholic Affectations and who live more in the Game than in Reallife.
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Kinda starting to look for a Guild right now. (German)
what makes one group better than the other, morally?
and don't you think if someone plays 24/7 they should be rewarded accordingly?
id say because of ashes direction in crafting and gearing up, it would be more beneficial for the game in general to have hardcore players over casuals. imagine every single freehold player is a casual and never refines anything or tends to his stuff..no one would ever geat gear lol
well, you know in other games you can just queue your refines, upgrades, etc. in aoc you have tend to your workstations (the furnace gets too hot, you need to cool it down before you can keep using it, etc). you cant just log in, queue everything then log off and come back next week.
imagine if all freehold owners only logged in 1-2 hours a week to play, as opposed to someone who logs in every day and tends to their freehold. that player would only be outputting, lets say 100 iron ingots a week, and a sword needs 10000 (and the whole server needs swords + armor). a dedicated player could be outputting 1000 iron ingots per day helping everybody gear up. no gear = cant do content.
also, how would people even find a party to do stuff. so usually during weekday mornings, its hard to find a party to do anything because most people are at work. easier to do solo quests though since less competition. you yourself mentioned that if you cant complete a quest because there are too many people doing the quest, you can complete it during low pop hours.
imagine if everyone was a casual, there would be low pop hours 24/7. people wont be able to party up to get stuff done and shape the world (since you need a party for that). only the very few who are hardcore would progress since you need a party to progress in aoc. everybody else would progress way too slowly, thus making them unable to compete with the very few hardcore players, who will end up shaping the world (because you cant stop them), making aszkalon desire unatainable.
eventually, those who are a bit less casual would end up becoming the "elite" anyways. they would be outputting a little bit more and become a bit better known and will get all the money.
Of Course those who play longer, should have more ingame than those who play in shorter Intervals.
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Kinda starting to look for a Guild right now. (German)
PvEers tend to leave once all the quests are finished. Especially once all the Gear has been collected from Dungeons and Raids.
Especially, RPG players.
These days... it's fun to return for Battlepass Achivements.
And yeah, PvPers tend to not care about the RPG elements in MMORPGs and primarily care about fighting each other.
Yes, and that makes PvE players so hard to satisfy. They need constantly new content.
Nor am I aware of Casual players who queue everything and return the next week.
That is a fallacious use reductio ad absurdum.
Easy enough to find other players in your Node who play at the same time - especially because a lot of the Housing is Open World.
There is nothing preventing Casual-Time players from partying with Hardcore-Time players.
And... Casual-Time players may already be members of a multi-game community.
Casual-Time players can be very well-known.
Casual-Time players probably would not be striving to be "elite" nor obtain "all the money".
Battlepasses are fun.
Yawn. "Anyone who doesn't like the same things I like isn't a real RPG player".
We are all creating and playing characters, a certain amount of RPG is baked into the game itself.
And who are you to decide how we play those characters?
Especially in a game/world all about conflict, trade, resources... competition (much like the real world, btw).
The completely undeserved sense of superiority is painful to witness.
Just because RPG is baked into the game does not mean that PvPers care much about the RPG aspects of the game.
Especially those PvPers who say that PvP makes MMORPGs interesting.
What does the real world have to do with Fantasy RPGs?
We agree! Your completely undeserved sense of superiority is painful to experience.
This is another level of absurd even for you @Dygz.
As many, many others have explained, whether they be PvE or PvP leaning.. the element of danger, competition and unpredictability that PvP brings makes the world feel alive.
This is something that the vast majority appear to agree on.
The vast majority also agrees that straight up griefing is bad, so here we are thinking and working on ways to solve this situation.
Most of us aren't here to simply "tell stories" verbally, you don't need a multi-million dollar MMO to do that.
dygz, who produces more iron ingots, a guy playing 15 hours a day focused on his freehold production, or a guy playing 1 hour every 3 days. how is what I said a fallacy? the numbers were made up though.
I like pvp more than pve, even though I enjoy pve, what makes you think pvpers don't care about the RPG elements? we deeply care about character development and progression, how we build our char, stat points,s kill points, etc. that's a core RPG element. you have to choice to build your character.
if you are talking about roleplaying and acting as if the game was real life, changing your voice, speech, etc.(please specify) no, we don't care too much about that, unless you are an UO pvper I guess.
As I said, PvPers claim that the RPG elements of a PVE MMORPG do not provide sufficient sense of danger, competition and unpredictability to make the games feel alive.
PvP does that.
The vast amount of PvPers agree on that.
We agree.
PvEers don’t require PvP to feel a sense of danger and competition, or even unpredictability, from PvE.
You are the only person I’ve seen mention “telling stories verbally” in this topic.
The fallacy is the argument - “what if everyone did that?”
I did not use the qualifier “all”. I also did not use the qualifier “most”.
I’m talking about PvPers on the Ashes Forums claiming that PvP is what makes MMORPGs interesting. Some even claim that PvE is boring without PvP.
I can't tell if this is just hyperbole or not. If it isn't I'd like to know the game so I can look in to it and get an understanding for how/why this is a thing. If it is just hyperbole, then I feel I should say that if you can't make your point without hyperbole, you can't make it with hyperbole either.
Using it in an argument essentially renders your argument null and void, as even the person making the argument can't make an argument for what they are arguing.
well, if I say dogs wiggle their tail, I didn't ay all or most, but its inferred. if you were talking about aoc pvpers in the forums, maybe specify? cant read ur mind T_T
not every game has instant crafting. lost ark is an example.and if I remember correctly, you could queue up some upgrades and stuff in skyforge (although that didn't really have an impact on other players).
as far as I know, processing wont be instant in aoc. you need to develop your stations, you need to spend time processing and also tending to said stations (overheated furnace, gather your crops, etc). maybe you wont be queuing up things in aoc, but imagine if everyone was a casual and you just let your crops there for a week without picking them up and restarting them, or don't refine things, etc.
Also, a casual player is unlikely to leave crops for a full week - a day or two at most.
I was making a point on why hardcore players are better for the game than casuals...
Also, I could actually pull some quotes from these Forums regarding whom I’m referring to.
You just made stuff up about “Casuals” that doesn’t come close to how Casuals actually play - especially not any Casuals in these Forums that I’m aware of.
As Dygz kind of said, as a general point, this is absolutely true. The arguments you are making to support/justify it are not.
answer these 2 question please, both of you.
what do you prefer, every freehold owner to play 1-2 hours a week, or 10-15 hours a day?
how can people gear up faster and do more content (since you need the gear for it) by having freehold owners who play 1-2 hours a week, or 10-15 hours a day?
You are truly the poster child for Reductio Ad Absurdum.
I prefer for a normal amount of people to spend a normal amount of time on Freeholds.
Maybe they should follow a Pareto Distribution?