I think it'll hurt the game overall to make an aspect of the game inaccessible to a major portion of players. Especially the players that would see that as their favorite part of the game.
WoW doesn't have housing, GW2, plenty of games, housing is not something that can make or break a game.
Never in history of humanity a good MMO failed because of not having housing / having bad housing or anything housing related.
And if we start talking about OPEN WORLD Land / Housing 99% of games don't even have it.
and BTW, Ashes WILL have instanced and node housing for everyone - it's just the freeholds.
I'm sorry guys y'all are absolutely out of touch with reality if you think enough people care about this for limited freeholds even be an issue for the game.
It's just getting to a point it's annoying to read the same things being repeated again, if freeholds is the hill you want to die one that's fine, just go play Palia, I can guarantee 100% Ashes will be fine, because there are enough people that want Meaningful, limited systems in an MMO.
GW2 has housing, it's mostly irrelevant.
Housing not being present is not something that can make or break a game, sure I agree. But when housing IS present, and has a large and impactful role to play in the game, then it absolutely can make or break the game. A game that you like to bring up is Archeage. And it had a big role to play in that game too. And while being a good system, it had its flaws, and it definitely contributed to the game's death.
In-node housing won't be for everyone.
Again, freeholds have a large role to play in Ashes, they're impactful, important, and honestly, needed for a ton of stuff. If you need me to, I can repeat it one more time.
Likely the best way to limit giant guilds is to make the talent/perk points for smaller guilds really strong. If the big guilds are spending points to boost their members from 50 to 300 the perks for the smaller guilds should be comparable.
Comparable to the point that a full guild vs guild will favor the larger guild, but a small skirmish will favor the smaller guild.
What if large guilds, named Mafia, Mafia1, Mafia2, Mafia3, Mafia4 all have small individual numbers, with great passive skills, yet by Mafia10 they have the numbers too?
I'm pretty sure the guild alliance feature is capped at 5. So if Mafia1 through Mafia5 each have 50 players they are capped at 250. If they each have 300 they are capped at 1500. Pretty huge difference.
Now it is possible that two alliances will have an understanding or a shared discord community or whatever, but their ability to share resources and help each other will be lessened. This would also be a breeding ground for infighting and backstabbing, which is exactly what the rest of the server should want to happen.
Stuff like Mafia7 keeps getting told to hand over materials to Mafia3 to build freehold stuff that Mafia7 can't even use. Mafia6 is ordered to run protection detail around RandomDungeon for Mafia1 again and they're sick of it because Mafia1 never runs protection detail for them, etc.
Forcing them to choose between spreading out with good perks and inviting infighting vs staying clumped up and foregoing perks to make logistics and control easier is a great way to deal with massive guilds. Give them a reason to be pissy with each other and just sit back and enjoy the show.
wait... something is wrong.... you are saying games like GW2 or BDO have housing but the majority of players don't care about it?
so you are telling me that even if AoC had no housing system at all, game would still do just fine?
I thought AoC was dead on arrival because not everyone can get access to just 1 out of the 3 housing types they have....
Nobody is saying access to the housing or not is a problem. It's locking parts of the game behind it that you can't do unless you have one.
FFXIV has housing, you don't have to have one to make gear though... That's what people are pointing at.
Sorry to interupt, but I think that is the point. The point is you have to take the freehold from them if they lock you out. Some might be people and allow the max citizens to join and use the freehold as well. But conflict is the game. It is intended that not everyone can get one unless you take one from another. Core design, core mechanic. That is not going to change.
wait... something is wrong.... you are saying games like GW2 or BDO have housing but the majority of players don't care about it?
so you are telling me that even if AoC had no housing system at all, game would still do just fine?
I thought AoC was dead on arrival because not everyone can get access to just 1 out of the 3 housing types they have....
Nobody is saying access to the housing or not is a problem. It's locking parts of the game behind it that you can't do unless you have one.
FFXIV has housing, you don't have to have one to make gear though... That's what people are pointing at.
Should legendary materials spawn inside the safest areas of nodes? Should the high end recipes for crafting armor and weapons be freely trained at any node trainer? Why does it suddenly matter that processing has restrictions when the other two have clear restrictions as well?
wait... something is wrong.... you are saying games like GW2 or BDO have housing but the majority of players don't care about it?
so you are telling me that even if AoC had no housing system at all, game would still do just fine?
I thought AoC was dead on arrival because not everyone can get access to just 1 out of the 3 housing types they have....
You modified this quote in a way to look like I said something that I did not say. I don't care if it was a mistake or intentional, but please fix it. I have never played GW2.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
The point is you have to take the freehold from them if they lock you out. Some might be people and allow the max citizens to join and use the freehold as well. But conflict is the game. It is intended that not everyone can get one unless you take one from another. Core design, core mechanic. That is not going to change.
Yeah, but somehow I'm Ok with this for Racial progression and Sieges...
But, it doesn't feel right for Freeholds and Crafting.
I think because Crafting progression is a core progression path along with Adventurer progression.
I think people would not have a problem if you had to have a Freehold to reach max Social Org progression or max Religion progression.
The point is you have to take the freehold from them if they lock you out. Some might be people and allow the max citizens to join and use the freehold as well. But conflict is the game. It is intended that not everyone can get one unless you take one from another. Core design, core mechanic. That is not going to change.
Yeah, but somehow I'm Ok with this for Racial progression and Sieges...
But, it doesn't feel right for Freeholds and Crafting.
I think because Crafting progression is a core progression path along with Adventurer progression.
I think people would not have a problem if you had to have a Freehold to reach max Social Org progression or max Religion progression.
100% this. If people could reliably max their artisan/crafting without a freehold then most of this static would vanish.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Also... doesn't this mean that Crafters now have to hit max Adventurer Level in order to max their Crafter Level?
Lots of Crafters would almost prefer to have minimal Adventurer Level. I'm mean, sometimes you get Adventurer xp just from exploring. But there are Crafters who wish to just focus as much as possible on Crafting rather than being forced to max Adventurer before they can max Crafting.
Also... doesn't this mean that Crafters now have to hit max Adventurer Level in order to max their Crafter Level?
Lots of Crafters would almost prefer to have minimal Adventurer Level. I'm mean, sometimes you get Adventurer xp just from exploring. But there are Crafters who wish to just focus as much as possible on Crafting rather than being forced to max Adventurer before they can max Crafting.
you can just craft. your adventurer level will increase from getting xp while crafting. afaik you dont need to level up ur adventurer level for artisan profs.
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RavicusMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Man, more and more hypotheticals and strawment. Never ceases to amaze me.
Also... doesn't this mean that Crafters now have to hit max Adventurer Level in order to max their Crafter Level?
Lots of Crafters would almost prefer to have minimal Adventurer Level. I'm mean, sometimes you get Adventurer xp just from exploring. But there are Crafters who wish to just focus as much as possible on Crafting rather than being forced to max Adventurer before they can max Crafting.
You and azrae were always told to forget about Lv1 mastercrafters. It's gamebreaking.
Why are you pretending that this now is somehow and unexpected development?
See how off you are in anything related to this game?
You are on your parallel version of things.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Also... doesn't this mean that Crafters now have to hit max Adventurer Level in order to max their Crafter Level?
Lots of Crafters would almost prefer to have minimal Adventurer Level. I'm mean, sometimes you get Adventurer xp just from exploring. But there are Crafters who wish to just focus as much as possible on Crafting rather than being forced to max Adventurer before they can max Crafting.
you can just craft. your adventurer level will increase from getting xp while crafting. afaik you dont need to level up ur adventurer level for artisan profs.
You can't get a Freehold until Level 50. And you can only get to Journeyman without a Freehold.
Also... doesn't this mean that Crafters now have to hit max Adventurer Level in order to max their Crafter Level?
Lots of Crafters would almost prefer to have minimal Adventurer Level. I'm mean, sometimes you get Adventurer xp just from exploring. But there are Crafters who wish to just focus as much as possible on Crafting rather than being forced to max Adventurer before they can max Crafting.
you can just craft. your adventurer level will increase from getting xp while crafting. afaik you dont need to level up ur adventurer level for artisan profs.
You can't get a Freehold until Level 50. And you can only get to Journeyman without a Freehold.
you dont need a fh to craft? just to process. but you can still process up to t3 without a fh...
also, your alts probably wont need to level up to 50 to use your fh and you can just process to t5 without leveling your adventurer level by killing mobs or questing.
wait... something is wrong.... you are saying games like GW2 or BDO have housing but the majority of players don't care about it?
so you are telling me that even if AoC had no housing system at all, game would still do just fine?
I thought AoC was dead on arrival because not everyone can get access to just 1 out of the 3 housing types they have....
Nobody is saying access to the housing or not is a problem. It's locking parts of the game behind it that you can't do unless you have one.
FFXIV has housing, you don't have to have one to make gear though... That's what people are pointing at.
Sorry to interupt, but I think that is the point. The point is you have to take the freehold from them if they lock you out. Some might be people and allow the max citizens to join and use the freehold as well. But conflict is the game. It is intended that not everyone can get one unless you take one from another. Core design, core mechanic. That is not going to change.
That's the same energy as saying you have to duel someone in town before you can use the forge. Sure that's the same mentality as "risk v reward" and "you have to earn it" but is that really helping the game. I don't think it will help the overall health of the game. I get that there needs to be scarcity, but you don't need conflict for EVERYTHING.
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RavicusMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
wait... something is wrong.... you are saying games like GW2 or BDO have housing but the majority of players don't care about it?
so you are telling me that even if AoC had no housing system at all, game would still do just fine?
I thought AoC was dead on arrival because not everyone can get access to just 1 out of the 3 housing types they have....
Nobody is saying access to the housing or not is a problem. It's locking parts of the game behind it that you can't do unless you have one.
FFXIV has housing, you don't have to have one to make gear though... That's what people are pointing at.
Sorry to interupt, but I think that is the point. The point is you have to take the freehold from them if they lock you out. Some might be people and allow the max citizens to join and use the freehold as well. But conflict is the game. It is intended that not everyone can get one unless you take one from another. Core design, core mechanic. That is not going to change.
That's the same energy as saying you have to duel someone in town before you can use the forge. Sure that's the same mentality as "risk v reward" and "you have to earn it" but is that really helping the game. I don't think it will help the overall health of the game. I get that there needs to be scarcity, but you don't need conflict for EVERYTHING.
Well then you probably will keep banging your head on the wall because that is the way the game is built. Have fun being frustrated I guess.
wait... something is wrong.... you are saying games like GW2 or BDO have housing but the majority of players don't care about it?
so you are telling me that even if AoC had no housing system at all, game would still do just fine?
I thought AoC was dead on arrival because not everyone can get access to just 1 out of the 3 housing types they have....
Nobody is saying access to the housing or not is a problem. It's locking parts of the game behind it that you can't do unless you have one.
FFXIV has housing, you don't have to have one to make gear though... That's what people are pointing at.
Sorry to interupt, but I think that is the point. The point is you have to take the freehold from them if they lock you out. Some might be people and allow the max citizens to join and use the freehold as well. But conflict is the game. It is intended that not everyone can get one unless you take one from another. Core design, core mechanic. That is not going to change.
That's the same energy as saying you have to duel someone in town before you can use the forge. Sure that's the same mentality as "risk v reward" and "you have to earn it" but is that really helping the game. I don't think it will help the overall health of the game. I get that there needs to be scarcity, but you don't need conflict for EVERYTHING.
You do for the important things. That's the way of life.
Conflict shows the value of something.
Also... doesn't this mean that Crafters now have to hit max Adventurer Level in order to max their Crafter Level?
Lots of Crafters would almost prefer to have minimal Adventurer Level. I'm mean, sometimes you get Adventurer xp just from exploring. But there are Crafters who wish to just focus as much as possible on Crafting rather than being forced to max Adventurer before they can max Crafting.
wait... something is wrong.... you are saying games like GW2 or BDO have housing but the majority of players don't care about it?
so you are telling me that even if AoC had no housing system at all, game would still do just fine?
I thought AoC was dead on arrival because not everyone can get access to just 1 out of the 3 housing types they have....
Nobody is saying access to the housing or not is a problem. It's locking parts of the game behind it that you can't do unless you have one.
FFXIV has housing, you don't have to have one to make gear though... That's what people are pointing at.
Should legendary materials spawn inside the safest areas of nodes? Should the high end recipes for crafting armor and weapons be freely trained at any node trainer? Why does it suddenly matter that processing has restrictions when the other two have clear restrictions as well?
This is more of a personal opinion, but that's one of the things I liked about it. And because it's the middle step, or the more 'passive' style of crafting it was perfect for the people that aren't out there raiding dungeons for those high end mats.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating for everyone having equal access to everything... But I feel like there should be something relevant for everyone. I thought freeholds would be perfect for that "end game" loop for those alt MMO players. The players that don't play MMOs for PvP or PvE, but all the other things. I didn't think the freeholds would be just ANOTHER thing that's exclusive to the no lifers.
wait... something is wrong.... you are saying games like GW2 or BDO have housing but the majority of players don't care about it?
so you are telling me that even if AoC had no housing system at all, game would still do just fine?
I thought AoC was dead on arrival because not everyone can get access to just 1 out of the 3 housing types they have....
Nobody is saying access to the housing or not is a problem. It's locking parts of the game behind it that you can't do unless you have one.
FFXIV has housing, you don't have to have one to make gear though... That's what people are pointing at.
Should legendary materials spawn inside the safest areas of nodes? Should the high end recipes for crafting armor and weapons be freely trained at any node trainer? Why does it suddenly matter that processing has restrictions when the other two have clear restrictions as well?
This is more of a personal opinion, but that's one of the things I liked about it. And because it's the middle step, or the more 'passive' style of crafting it was perfect for the people that aren't out there raiding dungeons for those high end mats.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating for everyone having equal access to everything... But I feel like there should be something relevant for everyone. I thought freeholds would be perfect for that "end game" loop for those alt MMO players. The players that don't play MMOs for PvP or PvE, but all the other things. I didn't think the freeholds would be just ANOTHER thing that's exclusive to the no lifers.
there are mmos to do all those things. Have you never played one? They are there, go play them, while you wait for ashes. What are you doing?
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Hahahahahahahaha!!! There are no good mmos to play out there and you believe that ANYBODY will turn down AoC when it releases? Everybody and their gamer grandmother will play. Whoever says I won't play is lying to themselves.
I would put money on people still playing Starfield when Ashes releases - even though it will be a few years old at that point.
By that stage, I would have played it through at least once, but the way Ashes is looking, I doubt I would pick it over a second or third playthrough of Starfield.
If Ashes is at all releasing in the same 12 month period as ES6, that would be a few hundred thousand players that just don't even consider Ashes.
Archeage 2 will probably be out before Ashes, the likely result there is that many players not interested in the above games will start up in Archeage 2, switch to Ashes for somewhere between one and three months, but then return to Archeage 2 after that period. This is especially true if Archeage 2 has Archages land system, and Ashes has the freehold system as we currently understand it - most players will stick with Archeage 2 where they have a sense of ownership and control over that little piece of the otherwise chaotic world (the as yet unmentioned real reason most people that want a freehold actually want one).
As I've said before, I know a LOT of people that were looking at Ashes but are now not even considering it - even some with lifetime subscriptions. I have some number of months paid so far, but if I don't consider the game to be the most enjoyable game for me to play, I simply won't play it. The time I have to spend playing games is far more valuable to me than $15 a month.
You know, I am getting tired people saying "I will play this and that over AoC".
You better have a forum acc on all the games you just mentioned instead of being here every minute.
You know, I am getting tired people saying "I will play this and that over AoC".
You better have a forum acc on all the games you just mentioned instead of being here every minute.
I come here to try and make this game better.
I have nothing but trust that Bethseda will make a good game in both Starfield and ES6. I have no doubt Archeage 2 is being made for the Korean market and so my voice will not be heard. I may well be active with in any community around a potential NA/EU release.
Based on the above, I have no reason to be posting anywhere other than here.
Comments
GW2 has housing, it's mostly irrelevant.
Housing not being present is not something that can make or break a game, sure I agree. But when housing IS present, and has a large and impactful role to play in the game, then it absolutely can make or break the game. A game that you like to bring up is Archeage. And it had a big role to play in that game too. And while being a good system, it had its flaws, and it definitely contributed to the game's death.
In-node housing won't be for everyone.
Again, freeholds have a large role to play in Ashes, they're impactful, important, and honestly, needed for a ton of stuff. If you need me to, I can repeat it one more time.
I'm pretty sure the guild alliance feature is capped at 5. So if Mafia1 through Mafia5 each have 50 players they are capped at 250. If they each have 300 they are capped at 1500. Pretty huge difference.
Now it is possible that two alliances will have an understanding or a shared discord community or whatever, but their ability to share resources and help each other will be lessened. This would also be a breeding ground for infighting and backstabbing, which is exactly what the rest of the server should want to happen.
Stuff like Mafia7 keeps getting told to hand over materials to Mafia3 to build freehold stuff that Mafia7 can't even use. Mafia6 is ordered to run protection detail around RandomDungeon for Mafia1 again and they're sick of it because Mafia1 never runs protection detail for them, etc.
Forcing them to choose between spreading out with good perks and inviting infighting vs staying clumped up and foregoing perks to make logistics and control easier is a great way to deal with massive guilds. Give them a reason to be pissy with each other and just sit back and enjoy the show.
wait... something is wrong.... you are saying games like GW2 or BDO have housing but the majority of players don't care about it?
so you are telling me that even if AoC had no housing system at all, game would still do just fine?
I thought AoC was dead on arrival because not everyone can get access to just 1 out of the 3 housing types they have....
Nobody is saying access to the housing or not is a problem. It's locking parts of the game behind it that you can't do unless you have one.
FFXIV has housing, you don't have to have one to make gear though... That's what people are pointing at.
Sorry to interupt, but I think that is the point. The point is you have to take the freehold from them if they lock you out. Some might be people and allow the max citizens to join and use the freehold as well. But conflict is the game. It is intended that not everyone can get one unless you take one from another. Core design, core mechanic. That is not going to change.
Should legendary materials spawn inside the safest areas of nodes? Should the high end recipes for crafting armor and weapons be freely trained at any node trainer? Why does it suddenly matter that processing has restrictions when the other two have clear restrictions as well?
You modified this quote in a way to look like I said something that I did not say. I don't care if it was a mistake or intentional, but please fix it. I have never played GW2.
But, it doesn't feel right for Freeholds and Crafting.
I think because Crafting progression is a core progression path along with Adventurer progression.
I think people would not have a problem if you had to have a Freehold to reach max Social Org progression or max Religion progression.
100% this. If people could reliably max their artisan/crafting without a freehold then most of this static would vanish.
Lots of Crafters would almost prefer to have minimal Adventurer Level. I'm mean, sometimes you get Adventurer xp just from exploring. But there are Crafters who wish to just focus as much as possible on Crafting rather than being forced to max Adventurer before they can max Crafting.
you can just craft. your adventurer level will increase from getting xp while crafting. afaik you dont need to level up ur adventurer level for artisan profs.
You and azrae were always told to forget about Lv1 mastercrafters. It's gamebreaking.
Why are you pretending that this now is somehow and unexpected development?
See how off you are in anything related to this game?
You are on your parallel version of things.
you dont need a fh to craft? just to process. but you can still process up to t3 without a fh...
also, your alts probably wont need to level up to 50 to use your fh and you can just process to t5 without leveling your adventurer level by killing mobs or questing.
That's the same energy as saying you have to duel someone in town before you can use the forge. Sure that's the same mentality as "risk v reward" and "you have to earn it" but is that really helping the game. I don't think it will help the overall health of the game. I get that there needs to be scarcity, but you don't need conflict for EVERYTHING.
Well then you probably will keep banging your head on the wall because that is the way the game is built. Have fun being frustrated I guess.
You do for the important things. That's the way of life.
Conflict shows the value of something.
You are not a crafter, are you dygz?
This is more of a personal opinion, but that's one of the things I liked about it. And because it's the middle step, or the more 'passive' style of crafting it was perfect for the people that aren't out there raiding dungeons for those high end mats.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating for everyone having equal access to everything... But I feel like there should be something relevant for everyone. I thought freeholds would be perfect for that "end game" loop for those alt MMO players. The players that don't play MMOs for PvP or PvE, but all the other things. I didn't think the freeholds would be just ANOTHER thing that's exclusive to the no lifers.
there are mmos to do all those things. Have you never played one? They are there, go play them, while you wait for ashes. What are you doing?
You’ll learn, discord > forums.
By that stage, I would have played it through at least once, but the way Ashes is looking, I doubt I would pick it over a second or third playthrough of Starfield.
If Ashes is at all releasing in the same 12 month period as ES6, that would be a few hundred thousand players that just don't even consider Ashes.
Archeage 2 will probably be out before Ashes, the likely result there is that many players not interested in the above games will start up in Archeage 2, switch to Ashes for somewhere between one and three months, but then return to Archeage 2 after that period. This is especially true if Archeage 2 has Archages land system, and Ashes has the freehold system as we currently understand it - most players will stick with Archeage 2 where they have a sense of ownership and control over that little piece of the otherwise chaotic world (the as yet unmentioned real reason most people that want a freehold actually want one).
As I've said before, I know a LOT of people that were looking at Ashes but are now not even considering it - even some with lifetime subscriptions. I have some number of months paid so far, but if I don't consider the game to be the most enjoyable game for me to play, I simply won't play it. The time I have to spend playing games is far more valuable to me than $15 a month.
You better have a forum acc on all the games you just mentioned instead of being here every minute.
I come here to try and make this game better.
I have nothing but trust that Bethseda will make a good game in both Starfield and ES6. I have no doubt Archeage 2 is being made for the Korean market and so my voice will not be heard. I may well be active with in any community around a potential NA/EU release.
Based on the above, I have no reason to be posting anywhere other than here.
Lucky you.
I know my audience.
Most ppl skip your posts. I skip tjem nearly always.