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Master and Grand Master
Abarat
Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
I have seem a lot of "doom and gloom" posts about Master and Grand Master level processing 'gated' behind freeholds.
Does anyone know what that exactly means? I have not been able to find a definitive answer to the levels of the artisan system and what they mean. I see a lot of people assuming they know, but is there any references? I could not find any definitions of Master or Grand Master on the wiki.
Does anyone know what that exactly means? I have not been able to find a definitive answer to the levels of the artisan system and what they mean. I see a lot of people assuming they know, but is there any references? I could not find any definitions of Master or Grand Master on the wiki.
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Taking this into consideration that level 30 range of crafting might be far more important to the day to day gearing than I really thought.
Kinda changes the perspective on the freehold debate from “where am I gonna put all my grandmaster artisan buildings?” to “am I even going to be a grandmaster?”
Definitions seem kinda self-explanatory? It's the ultimate and penultimate lvls of processing that would be required in according lvls of crafting.
right. that is the wiki. got it.
What does tier 3 mean... what are you able to craft?
master, same question
grand master, same question
Am I missing where they are giving specifics to the levels of the gear you will be able to produce or materials you will be able to process?
Is that right? how do we know?
We know that Steven said that processing leaves nodes around level 30. We don’t know if that actually limits crafting though.
There is potential that crafters can use those near level 30 processed goods to make weapons suitable for higher levels. Of course I’m sure it wouldn’t be as BiS as something from 30+ processing, but crafting is tied to the node not freeholds, and I’m sure IS wouldn’t leave a 20 level gap of gear.
To elaborate: processors can process steel around level 30. They can’t process mythril. Crafters can make a level 50 steel sword, but can’t make mythril swords until they find a grandmaster processor.
But even if you can craft stuff at adventure lvl 50, that stuff won't be at a high quality. And I'd assume (and others seem to as well) that you'd need high quality stuff if you want to clear high-top lvl content.
- you can still survive
Yeah, but not at peak efficiency. We are all doomed.
is that about right?
If it is REALLY that hard to get, wont it be somewhat rare? and HIGHLY sought after?
In a PvE game yes, that would be right.
That is what i wanted on the Dygz will not play the game podcast
or the Dygz will 'pretend' to play the game podcast... you choose.
My thoughts are "I don't care, cause I thought this will be the case from the very start". I would prefer if top lvl processing was available outside of FHs, but I'd need to see it in action and to know the overall design to understand whether that would even make sense for the game.
(I’m about to leave for dance class and don’t have time to research that.)
I think the whole point is that the conversation around gating Master and Grandmaster made it clear that Artisans should be thinking, “Am I even going to be a Grandmaster Artisan?”
And Artisans expect to have max level Artisan to be no more gated than max level Adventurer.
Needing to be Level 50 Adventurer to place a Freehold doesn’t sweeten the pot.
There’s a few other discord/forum posts about it, but for whenever you get back;
that was just noaani typing nonsense again.
its completely possible that t4 and t5 wont even give you an option to craft mats for higher tier gear and thats just to craft mats that will make the gear more durable, for example, so you sve money on repairs. or maybe things for siege weapons, etc. no one knows what can you make with t3 processing.
there was a screenshot from the last dev stream and iirc the icon for the last tier was a golem or something
The place where that came from was the Kaos and Lace livestream that Steven jumped in on (about 12:20 if anyone wants to listen - and yes, I know how rare it is that I cite a source).
When talking about processing, he said that the mastery process for that leaves the node system at around level 30 in the leveling experience.
Steven carried on to say that one of the debates they had internally was to lower the threshold for getting a freehold down to level 30, so that there was a seamless leveling progression for processing.
He is quite literally saying that the leveling process for processors stop at around level 30 in nodes, and then carries on in freeholds.
That was stated as clear as day. There isn't any interpretation needed.
How this relates to master and grandmaster is an assumption (since we know you need a freehold to access these tiers). The comment about processing only going up to level 30 in nodes though, that is quite blunt.
Here is a link for the video that Noaani is talking about if anyone is interested in making their own conclusions on what Steven is talking about.
I've assumed that T3 would be up to entry level gear for max level characters, T4 would be everything from T3 to "requirement level" for top tier content and the drops that you get from that content would be used in T5 processing/crafting. This is based on nothing, but my own ideas.
And, then, people on the server know who you are based on quality and specializations - not because of Freehold scarcity.
Seemed like that would be decided during Alpha 2 testing. So did not seem like much point in being concerned about certs being capped somehow before Alpha 2 testing.
This isn't a given, I'm fully aware, but to me this is the base level expectation - it is what I will assume unless we are told otherwise. The reason I consider this to be the baseline is because anything else gets really messy when new levels are added to a game - something Intrepid have said they want to do.
If level 30 processors are making processed materials for level 50 gear, and then levels 31 - 50 are for rarer materials, what happens when Intrepid add level 51 - 60? What level of processor processes materials for that level range? There really isn't a tidy way to do it - unless you have the level of harvester, processor and crafter all be the same level as the level of gear they are working on.
Personally, I agree with HumblePuffin in that crafters will be able to craft there level in gear but with the mats available and some mats will be more rare due to the fact no one can process them. (level 50 steel sword was the example given instead of a 50 mithril sword but that's because the crafter has no mithril to craft with.)
You just gave me a really wild idea - what if crafters could make any level of gear regardless of level but the quality would be capped: T1 crafter can make only common items; T2 common and rare etc.
The downside to this is that if a player knows they aren't going to get access to materials past rare, there is no real point in them bothering to level up.
It also means there is no point in leveling up if there is a new level range added to the game.
I don't consider this to be doom and gloom - just a case of bad game design likely due to an oversight on Intrepids part, and that it will be fixed before long.
I mean, the fixes for all the issues we are looking at are all easy in concept (the fix to the freehold issue has some work in implementing, but the concept is simple). The fix to the issue around processing is actually dead simple - allow players to process a base quality of gear at any level in node, and then require freeholds to produce better quality.
I mean, perhaps Steven mis-spoke in the livestream we are talking about in this thread, perhaps that is the plan all along.
It seems to me that the people that didn't catch the level 30 comment in that livestream are probably having a hard time believing that the above fix isn't actually the plan from the beginning though - because it is what the plan should have been all along.
Maybe in this case item customization (though not just cosmetic one) could play a bigger motivational role?
What is not clear to me entirely is are we talking about processing level or adventurer level?
I think it is safe to assume that he is talking about adventurer level 30 because he is talking in context of the adventurer level requirement to own a freehold.
He also mentions “freehold capabilities of progression”. This leads me down a couple potential assumptions based off of some other things mentioned that I want to rewatch before commenting on, but I do believe it generally leads down paths where processors not having access to these high tier processing stations on freeholds is not going to destroy the games economy, or limit crafters ability to make gear for the last 20 levels of the game.
I see the master path flow for the artisan professions like this: gatherers will be unlocking that master path first and finding these rarer mats first. Gathering can probably be a rather linear progression. Some quests and stuff to unlock sure but it will be more smooth and tie into your adventurer level letting you into higher level areas and dungeons.
Processing bottle necks things a bit here. You may be able to keep processing any materials gatherers get to you, but without freehold buildings you do it inefficiently. Or as I said something like you can process steel but not mythril. You’re gated to an extent by having a freehold to get that extra efficiency, or a freehold building to get enough heat to forge your mythril bars, but even if you don’t have that your processed steel is still useful and can be used by crafters. Rare mats are rare so people mainly use the steel ones, mythril is sought after but not common.
Then finally the crafters continue to learn their craft. They learn how to craft things from steel that are stronger and can take on those higher level mobs. They make most of their money from supplying steel gear to the players but every so often processed mythril makes it to them and they are able to make this epic gear from it.
But all of these things require mats to be processed into a state that can be crafted into repair kits or be used to reforge the gear. Once again the steel can win out for day to day activities as it is much easier to repair and find materials for.
With this crafting is locked behind nodes level, but crafting isn’t pointless if you don’t have access to the highest tier nodes crafting station. Processing is locked behind nodes with highest tier locked behind freeholds but it’s not pointless to be a processor if you’re still able to process needed, useful goods. Finally gathering is locked behind node level unlocking rarer gathering opportunities, and with the highest tiers somewhat around adventurer level so you can safely access those gatherables, but it won’t be pointless to gather if you aren’t at that higher adventurer level yet because you can still gather mats that are needed and useful.
it could be like that, don't get me wrong, that is still a possibility, but there are more possibilities as well.
we just have to wait until we see the differences between t3 and t4-t5
Felt important to mention that because it’s kind of getting tied to the 10s level brackets when it doesn’t neatly fit within those levels.