Master and Grand Master

I have seem a lot of "doom and gloom" posts about Master and Grand Master level processing 'gated' behind freeholds.

Does anyone know what that exactly means? I have not been able to find a definitive answer to the levels of the artisan system and what they mean. I see a lot of people assuming they know, but is there any references? I could not find any definitions of Master or Grand Master on the wiki.

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HumblePuffin

Was reading back through on this and this caught my eye:

Based on testing, it may be decided to limit profession mastery certificates to a capped value.[13][14]
Becoming a master Crafter or a master Processor or a master Gatherer should be a significant time investment and resource investment; and because of that it should also be something that when you achieve that status it's like people on the server know who you are.[15] – Steven Sharif

Taking this into consideration that level 30 range of crafting might be far more important to the day to day gearing than I really thought.

Kinda changes the perspective on the freehold debate from “where am I gonna put all my grandmaster artisan buildings?” to “am I even going to be a grandmaster?”

Ludullu

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Artisan_progression

Definitions seem kinda self-explanatory? It's the ultimate and penultimate lvls of processing that would be required in according lvls of crafting.

Abarat

NiKr wrote: »

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Artisan_progression

right. that is the wiki. got it.

What does tier 3 mean... what are you able to craft?

master, same question
grand master, same question

Am I missing where they are giving specifics to the levels of the gear you will be able to produce or materials you will be able to process?

Ludullu

Abarat wrote: »

Am I missing where they are giving specifics to the levels of the gear you will be able to produce or materials you will be able to process?

There's no point in currently knowing names of those items or mats. It's just the highest lvls of artisanry. That's all one needs to know to either have an issue with this system or be ok with it.

Abarat

i get that... i guess my point is there are posts saying that no one will be able to craft gear past lvl 30 without freehold access.

Is that right? how do we know?

Fantmx

Where are those posts? As far as I know tier 3 does not equal level 30. At least I have never heard that said.

HumblePuffin

Abarat wrote: »

i get that... i guess my point is there are posts saying that no one will be able to craft gear past lvl 30 without freehold access.

Is that right? how do we know?

We know that Steven said that processing leaves nodes around level 30. We don’t know if that actually limits crafting though.

There is potential that crafters can use those near level 30 processed goods to make weapons suitable for higher levels. Of course I’m sure it wouldn’t be as BiS as something from 30+ processing, but crafting is tied to the node not freeholds, and I’m sure IS wouldn’t leave a 20 level gap of gear.

To elaborate: processors can process steel around level 30. They can’t process mythril. Crafters can make a level 50 steel sword, but can’t make mythril swords until they find a grandmaster processor.

Ludullu

Abarat wrote: »

i get that... i guess my point is there are posts saying that no one will be able to craft gear past lvl 30 without freehold access.

Is that right? how do we know?

People just divided levels into tiers and thought that the last 2 tiers would comprise 30-40 and 40-50 ranges. It's a logical assumption, but I don't think Steven has explicitly linked the two before.

But even if you can craft stuff at adventure lvl 50, that stuff won't be at a high quality. And I'd assume (and others seem to as well) that you'd need high quality stuff if you want to clear high-top lvl content.

Abarat

its the end of the world.

- you can still survive

Yeah, but not at peak efficiency. We are all doomed.

is that about right?

If it is REALLY that hard to get, wont it be somewhat rare? and HIGHLY sought after?

Azherae

Abarat wrote: »

its the end of the world.

- you can still survive

Yeah, but not at peak efficiency. We are all doomed.

is that about right?

If it is REALLY that hard to get, wont it be somewhat rare? and HIGHLY sought after?

In a PvE game yes, that would be right.

Abarat

i dont even know what that means. lol

Ludullu

Abarat wrote: »

If it is REALLY that hard to get, wont it be somewhat rare? and HIGHLY sought after?

I expect top tier gear to be reaaaal rare. But I don't think we've gotten any info on that.

Abarat

your thoughts on the doom and gloom about "gating"?

That is what i wanted on the Dygz will not play the game podcast

or the Dygz will 'pretend' to play the game podcast... you choose.

Ludullu

Abarat wrote: »

your thoughts on the doom and gloom about "gating"?

They had been discussing freeholds for a month, which is why theme changed before I got on.

My thoughts are "I don't care, cause I thought this will be the case from the very start". I would prefer if top lvl processing was available outside of FHs, but I'd need to see it in action and to know the overall design to understand whether that would even make sense for the game.

Dygz

HumblePuffin wrote: »

Taking this into consideration that level 30 range of crafting might be far more important to the day to day gearing than I really thought.

Kinda changes the perspective on the freehold debate from “where am I gonna put all my grandmaster artisan buildings?” to “am I even going to be a grandmaster?”

I don’t know when those dev quotes are from.
(I’m about to leave for dance class and don’t have time to research that.)

I think the whole point is that the conversation around gating Master and Grandmaster made it clear that Artisans should be thinking, “Am I even going to be a Grandmaster Artisan?”
And Artisans expect to have max level Artisan to be no more gated than max level Adventurer.
Needing to be Level 50 Adventurer to place a Freehold doesn’t sweeten the pot.

HumblePuffin

Dygz wrote: »

HumblePuffin wrote: »

Taking this into consideration that level 30 range of crafting might be far more important to the day to day gearing than I really thought.

Kinda changes the perspective on the freehold debate from “where am I gonna put all my grandmaster artisan buildings?” to “am I even going to be a grandmaster?”

I don’t know when those dev quotes are from.
(I’m about to leave for dance class and don’t have time to research that.)

I think the whole point is that the conversation around gating Master and Grandmaster made it clear that Artisans should be thinking, “Am I even going to be a Grandmaster Artisan?”
And Artisans expect to have max level Artisan to be no more gated than max level Adventurer.
Needing to be Level 50 Adventurer to place a Freehold doesn’t sweeten the pot.

There’s a few other discord/forum posts about it, but for whenever you get back;

https://youtu.be/B_2SFbN8PP8?t=18m47s

Depraved

Fantmx wrote: »

Where are those posts? As far as I know tier 3 does not equal level 30. At least I have never heard that said.

that was just noaani typing nonsense again.

its completely possible that t4 and t5 wont even give you an option to craft mats for higher tier gear and thats just to craft mats that will make the gear more durable, for example, so you sve money on repairs. or maybe things for siege weapons, etc. no one knows what can you make with t3 processing.

there was a screenshot from the last dev stream and iirc the icon for the last tier was a golem or something

Noaani

So, as far as I am aware, I was the first person to equate the whole level 30 processing thing to basically anything else.

The place where that came from was the Kaos and Lace livestream that Steven jumped in on (about 12:20 if anyone wants to listen - and yes, I know how rare it is that I cite a source).

When talking about processing, he said that the mastery process for that leaves the node system at around level 30 in the leveling experience.

Steven carried on to say that one of the debates they had internally was to lower the threshold for getting a freehold down to level 30, so that there was a seamless leveling progression for processing.

He is quite literally saying that the leveling process for processors stop at around level 30 in nodes, and then carries on in freeholds.

That was stated as clear as day. There isn't any interpretation needed.

How this relates to master and grandmaster is an assumption (since we know you need a freehold to access these tiers). The comment about processing only going up to level 30 in nodes though, that is quite blunt.

Kaseual

Kaseual wrote: »

https://youtube.com/watch?v=GwpWmmIq2cg&t=1915s&ab_channel=KaosandLace

I think he is referring to what Steven says at around 12 minute mark in this video.

Here is a link for the video that Noaani is talking about if anyone is interested in making their own conclusions on what Steven is talking about.

Kaseual wrote: »

It's possible that I'm misunderstanding what Steven means by "Processing mastery process leaves the nodes at around level 30 in the leveling experience for a processing profession." From this it's not completely clear, to me at least, whether he is talking about character or artisan levels.

But like you said, Steven also mentioned that they've had internal discussions whether they should lower the level requirement for freeholds to level 30, so that processing progression would transfer seamlessly from nodes to freeholds. So it would seem that he is talking about character levels.

So, what does "Processing mastery process leaves the nodes at around level 30" actually mean? To me it sounds like, that with in node processing stations (tier 3, journeyman) you would be able to make processed goods that are used to craft up to level 30ish gear. If you could use tier 3 processed goods to make entry level gear for max level characters, like I've assumed before, wouldn't that make Steven's statement as untrue? In this case, wouldn't it mean that processing leaves nodes at level 50?

If you could use in node processing stations to make processed goods to craft max level entry level gear and everything above that would need freeholds, then IMO the processing progression transition from nodes to freeholds would be seamless.

I've assumed that T3 would be up to entry level gear for max level characters, T4 would be everything from T3 to "requirement level" for top tier content and the drops that you get from that content would be used in T5 processing/crafting. This is based on nothing, but my own ideas.

Dygz

Becoming a master Crafter or a master Processor or a master Gatherer should be a significant time investment and resource investment; and because of that it should also be something that when you achieve that status it's like people on the server know who you are. – Steven Sharif Jul 2020

HumblePuffin wrote: »

Taking this into consideration that level 30 range of crafting might be far more important to the day to day gearing than I really thought.

Kinda changes the perspective on the freehold debate from “where am I gonna put all my grandmaster artisan buildings?” to “am I even going to be a grandmaster?”

I think everyone always expected significant time investment and significant resource investment.
And, then, people on the server know who you are based on quality and specializations - not because of Freehold scarcity.

Based on testing, it may be decided to limit profession mastery certificates to a capped value. – Steven Sharif Aug 2019

Dygz wrote: »

Based on what Steven just said, my understanding is that we somehow have to achieve Mastery of the parent path before we can master any of the professions in that path. After we achieve the Master Gatherer title, we will be able to start working through whatever we have to do become a master in each of the professions in the Gatherer path.

So... now we need a clearer idea of what we have to accomplish to become a Master of an Artisan parent path.

Dygz wrote: »

Mastery is a title, so could be that we have to complete Journeyman prerequisites before we unlock the Mastery levels.

[10:16 AM]Steven 😇: Remember this will also undergo major testing and there is potential for us to limit profession mastery certs to a capped value
[10:17 AM]Steven 😇: We will see how the testing goes
Jul 2019

Seemed like that would be decided during Alpha 2 testing. So did not seem like much point in being concerned about certs being capped somehow before Alpha 2 testing.

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