Anyone else feel like the doom and gloom is overblown? Like yes these things are limited and only those people that really invest time and effort into the game will be able to get these things but has anyone really stopped and asked "If processing these mats are this difficult, maybe the drop rates/spawn rates for these materials is going to be extremely low? So acquiring them will be just as if not more difficult then actually processing them/crafting with them?
Personally, I agree with HumblePuffin in that crafters will be able to craft there level in gear but with the mats available and some mats will be more rare due to the fact no one can process them. (level 50 steel sword was the example given instead of a 50 mithril sword but that's because the crafter has no mithril to craft with.)
Whether it's doom and gloom depends on your playstyle, but...
Probably also needs to be tested so we can see how it actually feels.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Let's say in the processing profession you might want to gain Mastery. That Mastery process leaves the nodes at around at around like level 30 in the in the leveling experience for a processing profession. And so um one of the debates on the design team was whether or not we should reduce the level requirement down to level 30 so that there's a seamless transition from node-based processing progression and the Freehold uh capability of progression. The reason why I think that there's never going to be a way to avoid rushing levels is because anytime you have a vertical power progression in a game there is always going to be a reason to rush leveling. And that's just kind of the standard MMO experience that many of us have have had right. Not all of us do it because not all of us really care about the vertical question there or have the time and ability to do it. Right but generally so long as there's a vertical power structure in place you're going to have an incentive to rush that leveling process. And the idea isn't that you will need to rush leveling to 50 in ashes of Creation in order to achieve a freehold because you have to also remember that the world structure is what predicates the availability of freeholds
What is not clear to me entirely is are we talking about processing level or adventurer level?
Rushing to Level 50 sounds like Adventurer Level to me.
But we should try to clarify for the dev stream.
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FantmxMember, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
So by the logic presented if we can get to t3 without mastery then adding mastery and grand master would be t4 and t5. At least that is how it would read.
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HumblePuffinMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
So by the logic presented if we can get to t3 without mastery then adding mastery and grand master would be t4 and t5. At least that is how it would read.
Agreed. They certainly wouldn’t be hurt by clarifying some past statements.
Let's say in the processing profession you might want to gain Mastery. That Mastery process leaves the nodes at around at around like level 30 in the in the leveling experience for a processing profession. And so um one of the debates on the design team was whether or not we should reduce the level requirement down to level 30 so that there's a seamless transition from node-based processing progression and the Freehold uh capability of progression. The reason why I think that there's never going to be a way to avoid rushing levels is because anytime you have a vertical power progression in a game there is always going to be a reason to rush leveling. And that's just kind of the standard MMO experience that many of us have have had right. Not all of us do it because not all of us really care about the vertical question there or have the time and ability to do it. Right but generally so long as there's a vertical power structure in place you're going to have an incentive to rush that leveling process. And the idea isn't that you will need to rush leveling to 50 in ashes of Creation in order to achieve a freehold because you have to also remember that the world structure is what predicates the availability of freeholds
What is not clear to me entirely is are we talking about processing level or adventurer level?
I don't see how this would matter - and it would be really bad if it were adventurer level.
If it is adventuring level he was talking about, does that mean someone that has a processing alt can level all the way to the cap in node, but someone that doesn't start processing until level 35 can't do any in node?
Since the issue here is bad game design, I don't see how this makes it any better.
So by the logic presented if we can get to t3 without mastery then adding mastery and grand master would be t4 and t5. At least that is how it would read.
This is how I read it as well.
Just because we only know the term for four tiers, doesn't mean there are only four tiers.
Seems to me like they need an "expert" tier in there between journeyman and master, going between these two without an expert tier doesn't quite seem right.
So by the logic presented if we can get to t3 without mastery then adding mastery and grand master would be t4 and t5. At least that is how it would read.
i read that a couple of times and what if what steven means is this?
you have novice then you can get to t1, t2, t3, t4 and master, then you do something and progress to journeyman, then you get to t1, t2, t3, t4 and master. then you do something and progress to master, then t1, t2, t3, t4 and master and then you do something and reach grandmaster and then t1, t2, t3, t4 and master. but maybe not, who knows.
ok. monkey in the room. new world straight up stole stevens ideas. they implemented them fast and dirty. That is when he pulled back. so, dont cry open development. He is saving us, not hiding.
disclaimer: this is my opinion and only my opinion.
ok. monkey in the room. new world straight up stole stevens ideas. they implemented them fast and dirty. That is when he pulled back. so, dont cry open development. He is saving us, not hiding.
disclaimer: this is my opinion and only my opinion.
Unlikely. Ashes has too few known unique ideas.
At best, Steven led the charge for MMORPG devs to go 'oh wait everyone actually wanted all that stuff back? Sweet let's GO' and I'm super thankful for that.
I just want Ashes to specifically do it first. Just gimme that glorious Lineage 2 - FFXI love child.
ok. monkey in the room. new world straight up stole stevens ideas. they implemented them fast and dirty. That is when he pulled back. so, dont cry open development. He is saving us, not hiding.
disclaimer: this is my opinion and only my opinion.
eh what ideas did they steal? 90% of aoc is l2, so new world stole l2?
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FantmxMember, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
ok. monkey in the room. new world straight up stole stevens ideas. they implemented them fast and dirty. That is when he pulled back. so, dont cry open development. He is saving us, not hiding.
disclaimer: this is my opinion and only my opinion.
What ideas did they steal?
And how does that have to do with the fact that in order to give accurate feedback, as they have requested, we need an accurate understanding of what they are doing?
ok. monkey in the room. new world straight up stole stevens ideas. they implemented them fast and dirty. That is when he pulled back. so, dont cry open development. He is saving us, not hiding.
disclaimer: this is my opinion and only my opinion.
What ideas did they steal?
And how does that have to do with the fact that in order to give accurate feedback, as they have requested, we need an accurate understanding of what they are doing?
You are waaaaay off the datum point to give any feedback.
If people were asking feedback on how to sent scientists to space, you would say "ok.. we need to make sure that the rocket is suitable to carry babies", at which point is a waste of time to further engage you.
The understanding that IS has given is accurate.
In AoC you are not protected from other players that try to outplay you.
There are no safety nets to make sure that "you too can accomplish it without fail".
Nobody is buying your narrative of Steven not being clear about where AoC is going.
ok. monkey in the room. new world straight up stole stevens ideas. they implemented them fast and dirty. That is when he pulled back. so, dont cry open development. He is saving us, not hiding.
disclaimer: this is my opinion and only my opinion.
What ideas did they steal?
And how does that have to do with the fact that in order to give accurate feedback, as they have requested, we need an accurate understanding of what they are doing?
We are just too impatient. They are asking for feedback on VERY specific things... You all are trying to glean the meaning of life of end game, nine years from now, from these glimpses.
ok. monkey in the room. new world straight up stole stevens ideas. they implemented them fast and dirty. That is when he pulled back. so, dont cry open development. He is saving us, not hiding.
disclaimer: this is my opinion and only my opinion.
What ideas did they steal?
And how does that have to do with the fact that in order to give accurate feedback, as they have requested, we need an accurate understanding of what they are doing?
You are waaaaay off the datum point to give any feedback.
If people were asking feedback on how to sent scientists to space, you would say "ok.. we need to make sure that the rocket is suitable to carry babies", at which point is a waste of time to further engage you.
The understanding that IS has given is accurate.
In AoC you are not protected from other players that try to outplay you.
There are no safety nets to make sure that "you too can accomplish it without fail".
Nobody is buying your narrative of Steven not being clear about where AoC is going.
My man. You do realize I'm not Dygz right? Your hate and anger for him seems to be blinding you to anyone you associate with him. Half of what you said above doesn't apply to me and the other half makes no sense.
I've never asked for handouts, never asked to have everything for nothing and always said I'd put in the work. I have also never said anything negative about Steven's ability. I have no idea what his ability is. I imagine after 6 plus years he has learned quite a lot of valuable knowledge that he uses everyday to move Ashes forward.
I hope you are able to lose some of that anger and we can have meaningful conversations. Until then I wish you peace, happiness and good health.
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FantmxMember, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Just because it keeps be said (I’m guilty of this too) there are only 4 tiers of artisan progression. Novice, Journeyman, Master, and Grandmaster.
Felt important to mention that because it’s kind of getting tied to the 10s level brackets when it doesn’t neatly fit within those levels.
There's a tiny chance that even this got copied from L2 (in a way). The first "tier" of gear in L2 was called "no grade". It was beneath grading stages.
What if Ashes has smth similar. Anyone can artisan their way around the "no grade" level of things (so, up to lvl10). But then we get the 4 tiers of stuff that require proper specializations in professions.
ok. monkey in the room. new world straight up stole stevens ideas. they implemented them fast and dirty. That is when he pulled back. so, dont cry open development. He is saving us, not hiding.
disclaimer: this is my opinion and only my opinion.
What ideas did they steal?
And how does that have to do with the fact that in order to give accurate feedback, as they have requested, we need an accurate understanding of what they are doing?
You are waaaaay off the datum point to give any feedback.
If people were asking feedback on how to sent scientists to space, you would say "ok.. we need to make sure that the rocket is suitable to carry babies", at which point is a waste of time to further engage you.
The understanding that IS has given is accurate.
In AoC you are not protected from other players that try to outplay you.
There are no safety nets to make sure that "you too can accomplish it without fail".
Nobody is buying your narrative of Steven not being clear about where AoC is going.
My man. You do realize I'm not Dygz right? Your hate and anger for him seems to be blinding you to anyone you associate with him. Half of what you said above doesn't apply to me and the other half makes no sense.
I've never asked for handouts, never asked to have everything for nothing and always said I'd put in the work. I have also never said anything negative about Steven's ability. I have no idea what his ability is. I imagine after 6 plus years he has learned quite a lot of valuable knowledge that he uses everyday to move Ashes forward.
I hope you are able to lose some of that anger and we can have meaningful conversations. Until then I wish you peace, happiness and good health.
I think Dygz has a positive influence onto the game.
Oh, you mean the thing Steven took from Archeage and L2?
You can't really claim New World stole that from Ashes - you could argue that both games stole it from Archege and L2 though.
You could also argue that both games took an amount of insperation from ESO in this regard.
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unknownsystemerrorMember, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
People claim they did, cause Steven said so in a rant. He then realized that was a bad take and apologized for it, and since then you have seen them very careful not to shit in other people's sandboxes.
People claim they did, cause Steven said so in a rant. He then realized that was a bad take and apologized for it, and since then you have seen them very careful not to shit in other people's sandboxes.
I'd not seen that before - I assume (hope) Steven was drunk when he wrote it.
Comments
Probably also needs to be tested so we can see how it actually feels.
But we should try to clarify for the dev stream.
This confusion seems to be driven by Intrepid.
They have said there are four proficiency tiers like you mention, novice, journeyman, master and grandmaster.
But then Steven has previously said: A character will be able to achieve up to tier 3 or tier 4 proficiency in professions that are not mastered.[5]
So by the logic presented if we can get to t3 without mastery then adding mastery and grand master would be t4 and t5. At least that is how it would read.
Agreed. They certainly wouldn’t be hurt by clarifying some past statements.
I don't see how this would matter - and it would be really bad if it were adventurer level.
If it is adventuring level he was talking about, does that mean someone that has a processing alt can level all the way to the cap in node, but someone that doesn't start processing until level 35 can't do any in node?
Since the issue here is bad game design, I don't see how this makes it any better.
I would argue that it is actually worse.
This is how I read it as well.
Just because we only know the term for four tiers, doesn't mean there are only four tiers.
Seems to me like they need an "expert" tier in there between journeyman and master, going between these two without an expert tier doesn't quite seem right.
i read that a couple of times and what if what steven means is this?
you have novice then you can get to t1, t2, t3, t4 and master, then you do something and progress to journeyman, then you get to t1, t2, t3, t4 and master. then you do something and progress to master, then t1, t2, t3, t4 and master and then you do something and reach grandmaster and then t1, t2, t3, t4 and master. but maybe not, who knows.
Wait, there are things you don't know about the design and future of the game? this is definitely news to me
Right, that won't even slow you down. lol.
The confusion is driven by the fact that game is not out yet. This statement implies, to me anyway, that you are "owed" an explanation.
Why do you feel that way?
Feedback requests.
disclaimer: this is my opinion and only my opinion.
Unlikely. Ashes has too few known unique ideas.
At best, Steven led the charge for MMORPG devs to go 'oh wait everyone actually wanted all that stuff back? Sweet let's GO' and I'm super thankful for that.
I just want Ashes to specifically do it first. Just gimme that glorious Lineage 2 - FFXI love child.
eh what ideas did they steal? 90% of aoc is l2, so new world stole l2?
What ideas did they steal?
And how does that have to do with the fact that in order to give accurate feedback, as they have requested, we need an accurate understanding of what they are doing?
You are waaaaay off the datum point to give any feedback.
If people were asking feedback on how to sent scientists to space, you would say "ok.. we need to make sure that the rocket is suitable to carry babies", at which point is a waste of time to further engage you.
The understanding that IS has given is accurate.
In AoC you are not protected from other players that try to outplay you.
There are no safety nets to make sure that "you too can accomplish it without fail".
Nobody is buying your narrative of Steven not being clear about where AoC is going.
We are just too impatient. They are asking for feedback on VERY specific things... You all are trying to glean the meaning of life of end game, nine years from now, from these glimpses.
success is about reading the room and timing, at least that is what my grandfather used to say.
Novice
• Tier 1
Journeyman
• Tier 2
• Tier 3
Master
• Tier 4
Grandmaster
• Tier 5
Was he successful?
My man. You do realize I'm not Dygz right? Your hate and anger for him seems to be blinding you to anyone you associate with him. Half of what you said above doesn't apply to me and the other half makes no sense.
I've never asked for handouts, never asked to have everything for nothing and always said I'd put in the work. I have also never said anything negative about Steven's ability. I have no idea what his ability is. I imagine after 6 plus years he has learned quite a lot of valuable knowledge that he uses everyday to move Ashes forward.
I hope you are able to lose some of that anger and we can have meaningful conversations. Until then I wish you peace, happiness and good health.
I see. Didn't Warhammer Online have sieges with siege weapons back in like 2010?
What if Ashes has smth similar. Anyone can artisan their way around the "no grade" level of things (so, up to lvl10). But then we get the 4 tiers of stuff that require proper specializations in professions.
Hold up. Wait a minute. Not sure how everyone is ok just letting this slip by.
Very cool. What kind of dance? I'm going to guess Contemporary.
I think Dygz has a positive influence onto the game.
Oh, you mean the thing Steven took from Archeage and L2?
You can't really claim New World stole that from Ashes - you could argue that both games stole it from Archege and L2 though.
You could also argue that both games took an amount of insperation from ESO in this regard.
I'd not seen that before - I assume (hope) Steven was drunk when he wrote it.