Then, as the player becomes corrupt, should get less agro from corrupt NPCs.
And I'd love that. The ultimate risk/reward move. Become corrupt and farm mobs, but risk it all by attracting attacks from players.
And I've already suggested mobs becoming "green" in the past. I'd love to see npc factions fighting each other and if players help one side - some of their mobs become full-fledged npcs who have left their corrupt ways.
PvX as fuck, and I'd imagine Dygz would see that as rpg as fuck as well.
I don't hate it, but it would add incentive to become corrupt.
Corrupted players aren't thematically criminal, they're corrupted. Criminals are people who break laws, corruption isn’t a law. One is akin to sin, the other is breaking some cultures rules meant to unify tribes into nations.
Or it could be seen as the law of nature on Verra. People who spill innocent blood get harsher punishments. And one of those punishments is a "monster's nature status", which lets other people kill the PKer w/o flagging up.
Call the process of flagging up "temptation of corruption" and you have yourself a justification why the death penalties are decreased in it. The "nature" is trying to trick you into becoming a part of it, so it gives you some benefits, but as soon as you go a bit too far - you're doomed.
So like I said, the story/lore could be twisted 20 ways to sunday. And any and all justifications can be thought up to make the system seem fine.
Like I've said on this thread, some people have a good reason to be corrupted; griefers can be any color and killing them is always the appropriate response.
Why punish the honor PKer for killing griefers?
The system definitely just needs to be expanded upon, because it's not going to entirely work as intended.
I think players are more flexible to adapt to a corruption system than the system to be adjusted for specific cases.
One can grief by playing music in voice chat or causing some game sounds repeatedly or using rp emotes.
Players can move away.
What other kind of griefing you can see where they are green? Harvesting resources in places you do not want them to harvest? I think that is intended by Steven. Therefore he doesn't offer the tools to stop them unless you start a war.
Even @Dygz has given examples of how to grief with PvE, trailing a group of mobs onto another player so they die to NPCs.
The system needs to deter higher levels from bullying lower levels only. If a player chooses to die when they’re perfectly capable of defending themselves that’s they’re own damn fault.
How can a high level bully a low level?
Killing the mobs he kills?
I think negative behavior happens more often when a game is very popular and a huge number of players join. Most likely in free to play games.
Where players have to pay monthly subscription the community will be smaller.
And there will be GMs you can contact for specific cases.
You can bully low levels by killing their quest objectives, swiping their gatherables because you have a mount, trail mobs onto them, show up with an even lower level character to get them to flag, etc.
And GMs will play a major factor, but they aren't to be relied upon if you can still create a solid system.
And that’s where the current proposed system lacks context. PKing isn’t bad, griefing is. Not all pking is griefing.
Let's say the game can detect that a high level is killing low level mobs while there are other low level players nearby.
Those low level players could tag the NPC and do a little bit of damage and each time this high level kills them, he could get a bar filled which could eventually make him corrupt.
Would this be ok?
By all means, let the higher level suffer the proposed penalties.
It’s when someone kills someone their own level or near it is when I don’t really see it as griefing.
what if a low level kills a high level? should the low level get a penalty then?
When is a low level ever going to have an opportunity to kill a high level? In a high level zone? The mobs will kill them.
In a town? The guards will kill them.
Hows a low level going to kill a high level with 40%-50% of gear being player power?
and the fish takes the bait ;3
according to you, in the ideal system:
the player doing an honor kill shouldn't be penalized.
the player griefing or being evil should be penalized.
the higher level player will be penalized for killing lowbies.
scenario 1:
me and my 2-3 other buddies want to kill you, no reason, just for fun. or maybe we want the farming spot, but we dont want to go red or be penalized. maybe we just want to grief you a bit.
we bring a low level alt, not super low, but definitely lower than you and attack you with it. you cant attack it or you will turn purple then we will kill you. the lower level character can kill you without any consequence now, since there wont be any penalty.
you could make it so that the lower levels do 0 damage to higher levels with better gear, but now people who are 1 or 2 tier of gears below wont have a chance at pvp and the game will become gear based, not skill based.
i think i saw you talking about that in another thread and complaining it shouldnt be gear based.
so what do we do now? the meta will be having low level alts to grief people, unless they would get corruption for killing greens hmm...
scenario 2:
my friend joined the game, or he is leveling an alt. people his own level start griefing him because they are assholes. he cant win 3 vs 1 and asks me to help since im high level. should i get penalized for chasing away lower levels or killing them? we have a contradiction here. they are evil and im not, so i shouldnt be penalized, however, they are lower levels and i should be penalized. what do we do? someone even suggested i should get corruption if i kill the mobs near them lmao...
I never once stated my ideal system.
Your Scenario 1:
Leads into the other problem the current system has, which is karma bombing. Something that hasn't been addressed yet, hence the system needs further expanded and elaborated on. But - high levels killing low levels is already going to incur increased corruption.
And I welcome the fight, because I like to 1 v X all the time and should the combat system have a high enough skill ceiling, I kill all three of you - because my focus is on mastery especially on the combat system.
Your Scenario 2:
Evil? They are dishonorable, but they'll be flagged purple already, so you won't be penalized, but they will hit level 50 eventually and then you and your buddy are free to destroy them for being shitheads. But your entire premise is another reason why the system needs to be further elaborated upon.
Honor PK doesn't mean you're good or evil, it means honorable PKing/PvP.
Corrupted players aren't thematically criminal, they're corrupted. Criminals are people who break laws, corruption isn’t a law. One is akin to sin, the other is breaking some cultures rules meant to unify tribes into nations.
Or it could be seen as the law of nature on Verra. People who spill innocent blood get harsher punishments. And one of those punishments is a "monster's nature status", which lets other people kill the PKer w/o flagging up.
Call the process of flagging up "temptation of corruption" and you have yourself a justification why the death penalties are decreased in it. The "nature" is trying to trick you into becoming a part of it, so it gives you some benefits, but as soon as you go a bit too far - you're doomed.
So like I said, the story/lore could be twisted 20 ways to sunday. And any and all justifications can be thought up to make the system seem fine.
Like I've said on this thread, some people have a good reason to be corrupted; griefers can be any color and killing them is always the appropriate response.
Why punish the honor PKer for killing griefers?
The system definitely just needs to be expanded upon, because it's not going to entirely work as intended.
I think players are more flexible to adapt to a corruption system than the system to be adjusted for specific cases.
One can grief by playing music in voice chat or causing some game sounds repeatedly or using rp emotes.
Players can move away.
What other kind of griefing you can see where they are green? Harvesting resources in places you do not want them to harvest? I think that is intended by Steven. Therefore he doesn't offer the tools to stop them unless you start a war.
Even @Dygz has given examples of how to grief with PvE, trailing a group of mobs onto another player so they die to NPCs.
If that is griefing then people get upset too easily.
Wow the whole corruption idea is getting pretty out there. In my opinion it is so complex that maybe they should just go for the default flag/unflag system. All this banter back and forth on who gets corruption, who gets suckered into corruption, the various penalties for corruption. Seems to me it would be just cleaner and easier to flag/unflag.
Opt-in PvP just becomes a PvE realm. Look at new world
Corrupted players aren't thematically criminal, they're corrupted. Criminals are people who break laws, corruption isn’t a law. One is akin to sin, the other is breaking some cultures rules meant to unify tribes into nations.
Or it could be seen as the law of nature on Verra. People who spill innocent blood get harsher punishments. And one of those punishments is a "monster's nature status", which lets other people kill the PKer w/o flagging up.
Call the process of flagging up "temptation of corruption" and you have yourself a justification why the death penalties are decreased in it. The "nature" is trying to trick you into becoming a part of it, so it gives you some benefits, but as soon as you go a bit too far - you're doomed.
So like I said, the story/lore could be twisted 20 ways to sunday. And any and all justifications can be thought up to make the system seem fine.
Like I've said on this thread, some people have a good reason to be corrupted; griefers can be any color and killing them is always the appropriate response.
Why punish the honor PKer for killing griefers?
The system definitely just needs to be expanded upon, because it's not going to entirely work as intended.
I think players are more flexible to adapt to a corruption system than the system to be adjusted for specific cases.
One can grief by playing music in voice chat or causing some game sounds repeatedly or using rp emotes.
Players can move away.
What other kind of griefing you can see where they are green? Harvesting resources in places you do not want them to harvest? I think that is intended by Steven. Therefore he doesn't offer the tools to stop them unless you start a war.
Even @Dygz has given examples of how to grief with PvE, trailing a group of mobs onto another player so they die to NPCs.
If that is griefing then people get upset too easily.
Yeah losing a good portion of the shit you just farmed is very upset easily.
And that’s where the current proposed system lacks context. PKing isn’t bad, griefing is. Not all pking is griefing.
Let's say the game can detect that a high level is killing low level mobs while there are other low level players nearby.
Those low level players could tag the NPC and do a little bit of damage and each time this high level kills them, he could get a bar filled which could eventually make him corrupt.
Would this be ok?
By all means, let the higher level suffer the proposed penalties.
It’s when someone kills someone their own level or near it is when I don’t really see it as griefing.
what if a low level kills a high level? should the low level get a penalty then?
When is a low level ever going to have an opportunity to kill a high level? In a high level zone? The mobs will kill them.
In a town? The guards will kill them.
Hows a low level going to kill a high level with 40%-50% of gear being player power?
and the fish takes the bait ;3
according to you, in the ideal system:
the player doing an honor kill shouldn't be penalized.
the player griefing or being evil should be penalized.
the higher level player will be penalized for killing lowbies.
scenario 1:
me and my 2-3 other buddies want to kill you, no reason, just for fun. or maybe we want the farming spot, but we dont want to go red or be penalized. maybe we just want to grief you a bit.
we bring a low level alt, not super low, but definitely lower than you and attack you with it. you cant attack it or you will turn purple then we will kill you. the lower level character can kill you without any consequence now, since there wont be any penalty.
you could make it so that the lower levels do 0 damage to higher levels with better gear, but now people who are 1 or 2 tier of gears below wont have a chance at pvp and the game will become gear based, not skill based.
i think i saw you talking about that in another thread and complaining it shouldnt be gear based.
so what do we do now? the meta will be having low level alts to grief people, unless they would get corruption for killing greens hmm...
scenario 2:
my friend joined the game, or he is leveling an alt. people his own level start griefing him because they are assholes. he cant win 3 vs 1 and asks me to help since im high level. should i get penalized for chasing away lower levels or killing them? we have a contradiction here. they are evil and im not, so i shouldnt be penalized, however, they are lower levels and i should be penalized. what do we do? someone even suggested i should get corruption if i kill the mobs near them lmao...
any system that allows you to kill someone without corruption will be abused. corruption isnt a desirable state, but you can still go for it if there arent people nearby who will kill you before you drop karma, and people are incentivized to fight back anyways, since they will lose less if they die.
The low level attacking would be a combatant and not give corruption...
Corrupted players aren't thematically criminal, they're corrupted. Criminals are people who break laws, corruption isn’t a law. One is akin to sin, the other is breaking some cultures rules meant to unify tribes into nations.
Or it could be seen as the law of nature on Verra. People who spill innocent blood get harsher punishments. And one of those punishments is a "monster's nature status", which lets other people kill the PKer w/o flagging up.
Call the process of flagging up "temptation of corruption" and you have yourself a justification why the death penalties are decreased in it. The "nature" is trying to trick you into becoming a part of it, so it gives you some benefits, but as soon as you go a bit too far - you're doomed.
So like I said, the story/lore could be twisted 20 ways to sunday. And any and all justifications can be thought up to make the system seem fine.
Like I've said on this thread, some people have a good reason to be corrupted; griefers can be any color and killing them is always the appropriate response.
Why punish the honor PKer for killing griefers?
The system definitely just needs to be expanded upon, because it's not going to entirely work as intended.
I think players are more flexible to adapt to a corruption system than the system to be adjusted for specific cases.
One can grief by playing music in voice chat or causing some game sounds repeatedly or using rp emotes.
Players can move away.
What other kind of griefing you can see where they are green? Harvesting resources in places you do not want them to harvest? I think that is intended by Steven. Therefore he doesn't offer the tools to stop them unless you start a war.
Even @Dygz has given examples of how to grief with PvE, trailing a group of mobs onto another player so they die to NPCs.
If that is griefing then people get upset too easily.
I could say the same about people being upset over getting ganked. But if these things are done again and again to keep the player from doing anything, they become griefing.
And that’s where the current proposed system lacks context. PKing isn’t bad, griefing is. Not all pking is griefing.
Let's say the game can detect that a high level is killing low level mobs while there are other low level players nearby.
Those low level players could tag the NPC and do a little bit of damage and each time this high level kills them, he could get a bar filled which could eventually make him corrupt.
Would this be ok?
By all means, let the higher level suffer the proposed penalties.
It’s when someone kills someone their own level or near it is when I don’t really see it as griefing.
what if a low level kills a high level? should the low level get a penalty then?
When is a low level ever going to have an opportunity to kill a high level? In a high level zone? The mobs will kill them.
In a town? The guards will kill them.
Hows a low level going to kill a high level with 40%-50% of gear being player power?
and the fish takes the bait ;3
according to you, in the ideal system:
the player doing an honor kill shouldn't be penalized.
the player griefing or being evil should be penalized.
the higher level player will be penalized for killing lowbies.
scenario 1:
me and my 2-3 other buddies want to kill you, no reason, just for fun. or maybe we want the farming spot, but we dont want to go red or be penalized. maybe we just want to grief you a bit.
we bring a low level alt, not super low, but definitely lower than you and attack you with it. you cant attack it or you will turn purple then we will kill you. the lower level character can kill you without any consequence now, since there wont be any penalty.
you could make it so that the lower levels do 0 damage to higher levels with better gear, but now people who are 1 or 2 tier of gears below wont have a chance at pvp and the game will become gear based, not skill based.
i think i saw you talking about that in another thread and complaining it shouldnt be gear based.
so what do we do now? the meta will be having low level alts to grief people, unless they would get corruption for killing greens hmm...
scenario 2:
my friend joined the game, or he is leveling an alt. people his own level start griefing him because they are assholes. he cant win 3 vs 1 and asks me to help since im high level. should i get penalized for chasing away lower levels or killing them? we have a contradiction here. they are evil and im not, so i shouldnt be penalized, however, they are lower levels and i should be penalized. what do we do? someone even suggested i should get corruption if i kill the mobs near them lmao...
any system that allows you to kill someone without corruption will be abused. corruption isnt a desirable state, but you can still go for it if there arent people nearby who will kill you before you drop karma, and people are incentivized to fight back anyways, since they will lose less if they die.
The low level attacking would be a combatant and not give corruption...
No but he did open the door to karma bombing which from what I understand of L2 was another problem, which also is a form of griefing.
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RavicusMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Wow the whole corruption idea is getting pretty out there. In my opinion it is so complex that maybe they should just go for the default flag/unflag system. All this banter back and forth on who gets corruption, who gets suckered into corruption, the various penalties for corruption. Seems to me it would be just cleaner and easier to flag/unflag.
Opt-in PvP just becomes a PvE realm. Look at new world
I understand that, but the way it is now is not very hospitable to pvp players. Sure the hi seas will be fun but unless its sieges or caravans, open world pvp will be dead. I just think the corruption is getting way into the weeds here. In the end you will have a carebear gathering base that will not flag. Bounty hunters will be bored shitless. I am willing to see how it plays out because we have not seen or heard the complete system on how it works, but right now I am not to optimistic about it. Now if greens had to gather resources in areas that made them go purple, such as high level contested areas it might help. To much complexity in systems creates more problems than necessary. What is the old adage? KISS...(keep it simple stupid). Not saying anyone is stupid, its just the saying lol.
And that’s where the current proposed system lacks context. PKing isn’t bad, griefing is. Not all pking is griefing.
Let's say the game can detect that a high level is killing low level mobs while there are other low level players nearby.
Those low level players could tag the NPC and do a little bit of damage and each time this high level kills them, he could get a bar filled which could eventually make him corrupt.
Would this be ok?
By all means, let the higher level suffer the proposed penalties.
It’s when someone kills someone their own level or near it is when I don’t really see it as griefing.
what if a low level kills a high level? should the low level get a penalty then?
When is a low level ever going to have an opportunity to kill a high level? In a high level zone? The mobs will kill them.
In a town? The guards will kill them.
Hows a low level going to kill a high level with 40%-50% of gear being player power?
and the fish takes the bait ;3
according to you, in the ideal system:
the player doing an honor kill shouldn't be penalized.
the player griefing or being evil should be penalized.
the higher level player will be penalized for killing lowbies.
scenario 1:
me and my 2-3 other buddies want to kill you, no reason, just for fun. or maybe we want the farming spot, but we dont want to go red or be penalized. maybe we just want to grief you a bit.
we bring a low level alt, not super low, but definitely lower than you and attack you with it. you cant attack it or you will turn purple then we will kill you. the lower level character can kill you without any consequence now, since there wont be any penalty.
you could make it so that the lower levels do 0 damage to higher levels with better gear, but now people who are 1 or 2 tier of gears below wont have a chance at pvp and the game will become gear based, not skill based.
i think i saw you talking about that in another thread and complaining it shouldnt be gear based.
so what do we do now? the meta will be having low level alts to grief people, unless they would get corruption for killing greens hmm...
scenario 2:
my friend joined the game, or he is leveling an alt. people his own level start griefing him because they are assholes. he cant win 3 vs 1 and asks me to help since im high level. should i get penalized for chasing away lower levels or killing them? we have a contradiction here. they are evil and im not, so i shouldnt be penalized, however, they are lower levels and i should be penalized. what do we do? someone even suggested i should get corruption if i kill the mobs near them lmao...
any system that allows you to kill someone without corruption will be abused. corruption isnt a desirable state, but you can still go for it if there arent people nearby who will kill you before you drop karma, and people are incentivized to fight back anyways, since they will lose less if they die.
The low level attacking would be a combatant and not give corruption...
No but he did open the door to karma bombing which from what I understand of L2 was another problem, which also is a form of griefing.
Yea that's been discussed quite a bit. I've mentioned this about people having low class level characters with high artisan levels for gathering. I said to make artisan levels also count as a variable towards corruption, so if a low level is maxed out of lumberjacking, they give the same amount of corruption as killing a max class level would. Some people got upset.
And that’s where the current proposed system lacks context. PKing isn’t bad, griefing is. Not all pking is griefing.
Let's say the game can detect that a high level is killing low level mobs while there are other low level players nearby.
Those low level players could tag the NPC and do a little bit of damage and each time this high level kills them, he could get a bar filled which could eventually make him corrupt.
Would this be ok?
By all means, let the higher level suffer the proposed penalties.
It’s when someone kills someone their own level or near it is when I don’t really see it as griefing.
what if a low level kills a high level? should the low level get a penalty then?
When is a low level ever going to have an opportunity to kill a high level? In a high level zone? The mobs will kill them.
In a town? The guards will kill them.
Hows a low level going to kill a high level with 40%-50% of gear being player power?
and the fish takes the bait ;3
according to you, in the ideal system:
the player doing an honor kill shouldn't be penalized.
the player griefing or being evil should be penalized.
the higher level player will be penalized for killing lowbies.
scenario 1:
me and my 2-3 other buddies want to kill you, no reason, just for fun. or maybe we want the farming spot, but we dont want to go red or be penalized. maybe we just want to grief you a bit.
we bring a low level alt, not super low, but definitely lower than you and attack you with it. you cant attack it or you will turn purple then we will kill you. the lower level character can kill you without any consequence now, since there wont be any penalty.
you could make it so that the lower levels do 0 damage to higher levels with better gear, but now people who are 1 or 2 tier of gears below wont have a chance at pvp and the game will become gear based, not skill based.
i think i saw you talking about that in another thread and complaining it shouldnt be gear based.
so what do we do now? the meta will be having low level alts to grief people, unless they would get corruption for killing greens hmm...
scenario 2:
my friend joined the game, or he is leveling an alt. people his own level start griefing him because they are assholes. he cant win 3 vs 1 and asks me to help since im high level. should i get penalized for chasing away lower levels or killing them? we have a contradiction here. they are evil and im not, so i shouldnt be penalized, however, they are lower levels and i should be penalized. what do we do? someone even suggested i should get corruption if i kill the mobs near them lmao...
I never once stated my ideal system.
Your Scenario 1:
Leads into the other problem the current system has, which is karma bombing. Something that hasn't been addressed yet, hence the system needs further expanded and elaborated on. But - high levels killing low levels is already going to incur increased corruption.
And I welcome the fight, because I like to 1 v X all the time and should the combat system have a high enough skill ceiling, I kill all three of you - because my focus is on mastery especially on the combat system.
Your Scenario 2:
Evil? They are dishonorable, but they'll be flagged purple already, so you won't be penalized, but they will hit level 50 eventually and then you and your buddy are free to destroy them for being shitheads. But your entire premise is another reason why the system needs to be further elaborated upon.
Honor PK doesn't mean you're good or evil, it means honorable PKing/PvP.
1- karma bombing is only possible if you dont attack me... if you attack me with the low level, you are already purple (unless you wnt to make it that a high level becomes corrupt or gets punished attacking a low level too). and yes, you can attack them all and you will most likely lose if they are around the same skill level and gear.
2- not always. they can grief my friend without becoming purple. As you said, not just pvpers grief, which i agree. or they might not be purple anymore by the time i get there.
Wow the whole corruption idea is getting pretty out there. In my opinion it is so complex that maybe they should just go for the default flag/unflag system. All this banter back and forth on who gets corruption, who gets suckered into corruption, the various penalties for corruption. Seems to me it would be just cleaner and easier to flag/unflag.
Opt-in PvP just becomes a PvE realm. Look at new world
I understand that, but the way it is now is not very hospitable to pvp players. Sure the hi seas will be fun but unless its sieges or caravans, open world pvp will be dead. I just think the corruption is getting way into the weeds here. In the end you will have a carebear gathering base that will not flag. Bounty hunters will be bored shitless. I am willing to see how it plays out because we have not seen or heard the complete system on how it works, but right now I am not to optimistic about it. Now if greens had to gather resources in areas that made them go purple, such as high level contested areas it might help. To much complexity in systems creates more problems than necessary. What is the old adage? KISS...(keep it simple stupid). Not saying anyone is stupid, its just the saying lol.
Nah I get what you mean. But honestly, I do believe there can be a solid balance so that corruption prevents griefing while allowing a bit of leniency so that OW PvP doesn't die. And so that the bounty system isn't useless.
There are two ways to make players be nice:
- rules enforced by the game
- law enforced by the players
I would prefer if the players in a node could influence some corruption attributes in the area influenced by that node.
Eventually that would also show which behavior leads to better defended nodes.
There are two ways to make players be nice:
- rules enforced by the game
- law enforced by the players
I would prefer if the players in a node could influence some corruption attributes in the area influenced by that node.
Eventually that would also show which behavior leads to better defended nodes.
I believe military nodes have this. Or at least, corruption isn't as big of a factor there.
Perhaps a 4th flag is not needed. What if corrupted players are allowed a "non-lethal" option they can turn on so that when they have to fight back against a green player, damage that would kill the player will instead knock them down for a minute or two.
This would remove the corruption penalties associated with defending yourself and give corrupted players the opportunity to flee.
I think this works perfectly with the current system as at this point, the red player is now the one not wanting to fight, and although they are not completely safe, it gives them "some" opportunity to maintain themselves. I think it works well too, kind of like a villain trying to turn another leaf who knocks out their pursuers on the road to redemption. If you die you did deserve it, but with this you are at least no longer killing green players.
Edit: You could even argue that this should be default, making the red player run up and finish off players increases the difficulty of killing other players.
And that’s where the current proposed system lacks context. PKing isn’t bad, griefing is. Not all pking is griefing.
Let's say the game can detect that a high level is killing low level mobs while there are other low level players nearby.
Those low level players could tag the NPC and do a little bit of damage and each time this high level kills them, he could get a bar filled which could eventually make him corrupt.
Would this be ok?
By all means, let the higher level suffer the proposed penalties.
It’s when someone kills someone their own level or near it is when I don’t really see it as griefing.
what if a low level kills a high level? should the low level get a penalty then?
When is a low level ever going to have an opportunity to kill a high level? In a high level zone? The mobs will kill them.
In a town? The guards will kill them.
Hows a low level going to kill a high level with 40%-50% of gear being player power?
and the fish takes the bait ;3
according to you, in the ideal system:
the player doing an honor kill shouldn't be penalized.
the player griefing or being evil should be penalized.
the higher level player will be penalized for killing lowbies.
scenario 1:
me and my 2-3 other buddies want to kill you, no reason, just for fun. or maybe we want the farming spot, but we dont want to go red or be penalized. maybe we just want to grief you a bit.
we bring a low level alt, not super low, but definitely lower than you and attack you with it. you cant attack it or you will turn purple then we will kill you. the lower level character can kill you without any consequence now, since there wont be any penalty.
you could make it so that the lower levels do 0 damage to higher levels with better gear, but now people who are 1 or 2 tier of gears below wont have a chance at pvp and the game will become gear based, not skill based.
i think i saw you talking about that in another thread and complaining it shouldnt be gear based.
so what do we do now? the meta will be having low level alts to grief people, unless they would get corruption for killing greens hmm...
scenario 2:
my friend joined the game, or he is leveling an alt. people his own level start griefing him because they are assholes. he cant win 3 vs 1 and asks me to help since im high level. should i get penalized for chasing away lower levels or killing them? we have a contradiction here. they are evil and im not, so i shouldnt be penalized, however, they are lower levels and i should be penalized. what do we do? someone even suggested i should get corruption if i kill the mobs near them lmao...
I never once stated my ideal system.
Your Scenario 1:
Leads into the other problem the current system has, which is karma bombing. Something that hasn't been addressed yet, hence the system needs further expanded and elaborated on. But - high levels killing low levels is already going to incur increased corruption.
And I welcome the fight, because I like to 1 v X all the time and should the combat system have a high enough skill ceiling, I kill all three of you - because my focus is on mastery especially on the combat system.
Your Scenario 2:
Evil? They are dishonorable, but they'll be flagged purple already, so you won't be penalized, but they will hit level 50 eventually and then you and your buddy are free to destroy them for being shitheads. But your entire premise is another reason why the system needs to be further elaborated upon.
Honor PK doesn't mean you're good or evil, it means honorable PKing/PvP.
1- karma bombing is only possible if you dont attack me... if you attack me with the low level, you are already purple (unless you wnt to make it that a high level becomes corrupt or gets punished attacking a low level too). and yes, you can attack them all and you will most likely lose if they are around the same skill level and gear.
2- not always. they can grief my friend without becoming purple. As you said, not just pvpers grief, which i agree. or they might not be purple anymore by the time i get there.
1) We can't assume a low level will do enough significant damage to a high level - yet as we don't know and the chances of that high level being in a low level zone is slim, so I won't attack the low level especially if I can out heal it even if they're attempting to grief me.
Which is why karma bombing might be a problem. Which is also cause to further discuss the system, because you've highlighted why it needs to be talked about.
2) So then again, thats cause to discuss the system. Because I support the system not allowing low levels to be griefed by higher levels; if your concern is that you go to help your friend and you cannot do anything about it, then the conversation is definitely warranted.
There are two ways to make players be nice:
- rules enforced by the game
- law enforced by the players
I would prefer if the players in a node could influence some corruption attributes in the area influenced by that node.
Eventually that would also show which behavior leads to better defended nodes.
You can never force a positive behavior out of a negative situation. Nor can you make the player be nice.
What you can do is cause them to go else where by making sure the area is hostile towards their behavior.
They'll just take their bullshit elsewhere, which is the result you can strive for.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I think I can just sit back and eat my popcorn for a while on this one.
Perhaps a 4th flag is not needed. What if corrupted players are allowed a "non-lethal" option they can turn on so that when they have to fight back against a green player, damage that would kill the player will instead knock them down for a minute or two.
This would remove the corruption penalties associated with defending yourself and give corrupted players the opportunity to flee.
I think this works perfectly with the current system as at this point, the red player is now the one not wanting to fight, and although they are not completely safe, it gives them "some" opportunity to maintain themselves. I think it works well too, kind of like a villain trying to turn another leaf who knocks out their pursuers on the road to redemption. If you die you did deserve it, but with this you are at least no longer killing green players.
Edit: You could even argue that this should be default, making the red player run up and finish off players increases the difficulty of killing other players.
I don't hate it, but you may as well just turn on CCs instead. That'd be enough to attempt escapes
Perhaps a 4th flag is not needed. What if corrupted players are allowed a "non-lethal" option they can turn on so that when they have to fight back against a green player, damage that would kill the player will instead knock them down for a minute or two.
This would remove the corruption penalties associated with defending yourself and give corrupted players the opportunity to flee.
I think this works perfectly with the current system as at this point, the red player is now the one not wanting to fight, and although they are not completely safe, it gives them "some" opportunity to maintain themselves. I think it works well too, kind of like a villain trying to turn another leaf who knocks out their pursuers on the road to redemption. If you die you did deserve it, but with this you are at least no longer killing green players.
Edit: You could even argue that this should be default, making the red player run up and finish off players increases the difficulty of killing other players.
sounds reasonable but it isnt. now you can keep greens perma down xDD. knock them down everytime they get up and you get 0 penalties for it.
And that’s where the current proposed system lacks context. PKing isn’t bad, griefing is. Not all pking is griefing.
Let's say the game can detect that a high level is killing low level mobs while there are other low level players nearby.
Those low level players could tag the NPC and do a little bit of damage and each time this high level kills them, he could get a bar filled which could eventually make him corrupt.
Would this be ok?
By all means, let the higher level suffer the proposed penalties.
It’s when someone kills someone their own level or near it is when I don’t really see it as griefing.
what if a low level kills a high level? should the low level get a penalty then?
When is a low level ever going to have an opportunity to kill a high level? In a high level zone? The mobs will kill them.
In a town? The guards will kill them.
Hows a low level going to kill a high level with 40%-50% of gear being player power?
and the fish takes the bait ;3
according to you, in the ideal system:
the player doing an honor kill shouldn't be penalized.
the player griefing or being evil should be penalized.
the higher level player will be penalized for killing lowbies.
scenario 1:
me and my 2-3 other buddies want to kill you, no reason, just for fun. or maybe we want the farming spot, but we dont want to go red or be penalized. maybe we just want to grief you a bit.
we bring a low level alt, not super low, but definitely lower than you and attack you with it. you cant attack it or you will turn purple then we will kill you. the lower level character can kill you without any consequence now, since there wont be any penalty.
you could make it so that the lower levels do 0 damage to higher levels with better gear, but now people who are 1 or 2 tier of gears below wont have a chance at pvp and the game will become gear based, not skill based.
i think i saw you talking about that in another thread and complaining it shouldnt be gear based.
so what do we do now? the meta will be having low level alts to grief people, unless they would get corruption for killing greens hmm...
scenario 2:
my friend joined the game, or he is leveling an alt. people his own level start griefing him because they are assholes. he cant win 3 vs 1 and asks me to help since im high level. should i get penalized for chasing away lower levels or killing them? we have a contradiction here. they are evil and im not, so i shouldnt be penalized, however, they are lower levels and i should be penalized. what do we do? someone even suggested i should get corruption if i kill the mobs near them lmao...
I never once stated my ideal system.
Your Scenario 1:
Leads into the other problem the current system has, which is karma bombing. Something that hasn't been addressed yet, hence the system needs further expanded and elaborated on. But - high levels killing low levels is already going to incur increased corruption.
And I welcome the fight, because I like to 1 v X all the time and should the combat system have a high enough skill ceiling, I kill all three of you - because my focus is on mastery especially on the combat system.
Your Scenario 2:
Evil? They are dishonorable, but they'll be flagged purple already, so you won't be penalized, but they will hit level 50 eventually and then you and your buddy are free to destroy them for being shitheads. But your entire premise is another reason why the system needs to be further elaborated upon.
Honor PK doesn't mean you're good or evil, it means honorable PKing/PvP.
1- karma bombing is only possible if you dont attack me... if you attack me with the low level, you are already purple (unless you wnt to make it that a high level becomes corrupt or gets punished attacking a low level too). and yes, you can attack them all and you will most likely lose if they are around the same skill level and gear.
2- not always. they can grief my friend without becoming purple. As you said, not just pvpers grief, which i agree. or they might not be purple anymore by the time i get there.
1) We can't assume a low level will do enough significant damage to a high level - yet as we don't know and the chances of that high level being in a low level zone is slim, so I won't attack the low level especially if I can out heal it even if they're attempting to grief me.
Which is why karma bombing might be a problem. Which is also cause to further discuss the system, because you've highlighted why it needs to be talked about.
2) So then again, thats cause to discuss the system. Because I support the system not allowing low levels to be griefed by higher levels; if your concern is that you go to help your friend and you cannot do anything about it, then the conversation is definitely warranted.
i mean if you are level 1 vs a lvl 50, ofc not. but level 35 vs 50, its possible depending how the game is made.
karma bombing wont be much of a a thing in aoc since it requires instant teleport for that to work.
low levels arent exempt of the rules. if they fk around, they will find out. if they try to grief and a higher level kills them, theyve earned it. they can always write that persons name down, level up and get back at him later. the system already protects them anyways by giving the pker massive corruption (in theory, and that seems fine).
And that’s where the current proposed system lacks context. PKing isn’t bad, griefing is. Not all pking is griefing.
Let's say the game can detect that a high level is killing low level mobs while there are other low level players nearby.
Those low level players could tag the NPC and do a little bit of damage and each time this high level kills them, he could get a bar filled which could eventually make him corrupt.
Would this be ok?
By all means, let the higher level suffer the proposed penalties.
It’s when someone kills someone their own level or near it is when I don’t really see it as griefing.
what if a low level kills a high level? should the low level get a penalty then?
When is a low level ever going to have an opportunity to kill a high level? In a high level zone? The mobs will kill them.
In a town? The guards will kill them.
Hows a low level going to kill a high level with 40%-50% of gear being player power?
and the fish takes the bait ;3
according to you, in the ideal system:
the player doing an honor kill shouldn't be penalized.
the player griefing or being evil should be penalized.
the higher level player will be penalized for killing lowbies.
scenario 1:
me and my 2-3 other buddies want to kill you, no reason, just for fun. or maybe we want the farming spot, but we dont want to go red or be penalized. maybe we just want to grief you a bit.
we bring a low level alt, not super low, but definitely lower than you and attack you with it. you cant attack it or you will turn purple then we will kill you. the lower level character can kill you without any consequence now, since there wont be any penalty.
you could make it so that the lower levels do 0 damage to higher levels with better gear, but now people who are 1 or 2 tier of gears below wont have a chance at pvp and the game will become gear based, not skill based.
i think i saw you talking about that in another thread and complaining it shouldnt be gear based.
so what do we do now? the meta will be having low level alts to grief people, unless they would get corruption for killing greens hmm...
scenario 2:
my friend joined the game, or he is leveling an alt. people his own level start griefing him because they are assholes. he cant win 3 vs 1 and asks me to help since im high level. should i get penalized for chasing away lower levels or killing them? we have a contradiction here. they are evil and im not, so i shouldnt be penalized, however, they are lower levels and i should be penalized. what do we do? someone even suggested i should get corruption if i kill the mobs near them lmao...
I never once stated my ideal system.
Your Scenario 1:
Leads into the other problem the current system has, which is karma bombing. Something that hasn't been addressed yet, hence the system needs further expanded and elaborated on. But - high levels killing low levels is already going to incur increased corruption.
And I welcome the fight, because I like to 1 v X all the time and should the combat system have a high enough skill ceiling, I kill all three of you - because my focus is on mastery especially on the combat system.
Your Scenario 2:
Evil? They are dishonorable, but they'll be flagged purple already, so you won't be penalized, but they will hit level 50 eventually and then you and your buddy are free to destroy them for being shitheads. But your entire premise is another reason why the system needs to be further elaborated upon.
Honor PK doesn't mean you're good or evil, it means honorable PKing/PvP.
1- karma bombing is only possible if you dont attack me... if you attack me with the low level, you are already purple (unless you wnt to make it that a high level becomes corrupt or gets punished attacking a low level too). and yes, you can attack them all and you will most likely lose if they are around the same skill level and gear.
2- not always. they can grief my friend without becoming purple. As you said, not just pvpers grief, which i agree. or they might not be purple anymore by the time i get there.
1) We can't assume a low level will do enough significant damage to a high level - yet as we don't know and the chances of that high level being in a low level zone is slim, so I won't attack the low level especially if I can out heal it even if they're attempting to grief me.
Which is why karma bombing might be a problem. Which is also cause to further discuss the system, because you've highlighted why it needs to be talked about.
2) So then again, thats cause to discuss the system. Because I support the system not allowing low levels to be griefed by higher levels; if your concern is that you go to help your friend and you cannot do anything about it, then the conversation is definitely warranted.
i mean if you are level 1 vs a lvl 50, ofc not. but level 35 vs 50, its possible depending how the game is made.
karma bombing wont be much of a a thing in aoc since it requires instant teleport for that to work.
low levels arent exempt of the rules. if they fk around, they will find out. if they try to grief and a higher level kills them, theyve earned it. they can always write that persons name down, level up and get back at him later. the system already protects them anyways by giving the pker massive corruption (in theory, and that seems fine).
Another simple reason is that basically, lower levels sorta need to be able to be a match for higher levels in a specific range statistically for the purposes of the following situation:
A mid level group enters an area where they get good exp and also get decent or great loot drops. They set up their flow and everyone's doing good, the enemies are dying as fast as they respawn, all is great.
A single or duo of higher level players who want the same drops but don't care about the exp come in and start to disrupt or 'PvE grief' that lower level group. If the gap is in any way large enough that the Higher level player can cut down either the Healer or the Tank of the low level group easily, the entire dynamic of the game changes instantly.
It might be a change that some people like or believe is a positive, but the current system handles this better than any different one in the same general design space, for both sides.
A 4th flag would make a group of players able to ignore corruption for the most part
A group of 8 players good at PvP decide to kill gatherers. They kill a gatherer and one goes red. Now they can do that 7 more times (different killer every time) and everyone is corrupt with one kill. During that time, any small force who attacks that group is going to get slaughtered. They'd be thrilled to be attacked, as the attacker is likely to drop something while orange and the group's corruption level will not go up. The only real danger is if a large PvP force decides to attack them. And at that point they're only 1 death in, so corruption levels are still "low"
The spiral of pain that is being corrupted and getting attacked by greens is the only real deterrent for a good group
And that’s where the current proposed system lacks context. PKing isn’t bad, griefing is. Not all pking is griefing.
Let's say the game can detect that a high level is killing low level mobs while there are other low level players nearby.
Those low level players could tag the NPC and do a little bit of damage and each time this high level kills them, he could get a bar filled which could eventually make him corrupt.
Would this be ok?
By all means, let the higher level suffer the proposed penalties.
It’s when someone kills someone their own level or near it is when I don’t really see it as griefing.
what if a low level kills a high level? should the low level get a penalty then?
When is a low level ever going to have an opportunity to kill a high level? In a high level zone? The mobs will kill them.
In a town? The guards will kill them.
Hows a low level going to kill a high level with 40%-50% of gear being player power?
and the fish takes the bait ;3
according to you, in the ideal system:
the player doing an honor kill shouldn't be penalized.
the player griefing or being evil should be penalized.
the higher level player will be penalized for killing lowbies.
scenario 1:
me and my 2-3 other buddies want to kill you, no reason, just for fun. or maybe we want the farming spot, but we dont want to go red or be penalized. maybe we just want to grief you a bit.
we bring a low level alt, not super low, but definitely lower than you and attack you with it. you cant attack it or you will turn purple then we will kill you. the lower level character can kill you without any consequence now, since there wont be any penalty.
you could make it so that the lower levels do 0 damage to higher levels with better gear, but now people who are 1 or 2 tier of gears below wont have a chance at pvp and the game will become gear based, not skill based.
i think i saw you talking about that in another thread and complaining it shouldnt be gear based.
so what do we do now? the meta will be having low level alts to grief people, unless they would get corruption for killing greens hmm...
scenario 2:
my friend joined the game, or he is leveling an alt. people his own level start griefing him because they are assholes. he cant win 3 vs 1 and asks me to help since im high level. should i get penalized for chasing away lower levels or killing them? we have a contradiction here. they are evil and im not, so i shouldnt be penalized, however, they are lower levels and i should be penalized. what do we do? someone even suggested i should get corruption if i kill the mobs near them lmao...
I never once stated my ideal system.
Your Scenario 1:
Leads into the other problem the current system has, which is karma bombing. Something that hasn't been addressed yet, hence the system needs further expanded and elaborated on. But - high levels killing low levels is already going to incur increased corruption.
And I welcome the fight, because I like to 1 v X all the time and should the combat system have a high enough skill ceiling, I kill all three of you - because my focus is on mastery especially on the combat system.
Your Scenario 2:
Evil? They are dishonorable, but they'll be flagged purple already, so you won't be penalized, but they will hit level 50 eventually and then you and your buddy are free to destroy them for being shitheads. But your entire premise is another reason why the system needs to be further elaborated upon.
Honor PK doesn't mean you're good or evil, it means honorable PKing/PvP.
1- karma bombing is only possible if you dont attack me... if you attack me with the low level, you are already purple (unless you wnt to make it that a high level becomes corrupt or gets punished attacking a low level too). and yes, you can attack them all and you will most likely lose if they are around the same skill level and gear.
2- not always. they can grief my friend without becoming purple. As you said, not just pvpers grief, which i agree. or they might not be purple anymore by the time i get there.
1) We can't assume a low level will do enough significant damage to a high level - yet as we don't know and the chances of that high level being in a low level zone is slim, so I won't attack the low level especially if I can out heal it even if they're attempting to grief me.
Which is why karma bombing might be a problem. Which is also cause to further discuss the system, because you've highlighted why it needs to be talked about.
2) So then again, thats cause to discuss the system. Because I support the system not allowing low levels to be griefed by higher levels; if your concern is that you go to help your friend and you cannot do anything about it, then the conversation is definitely warranted.
i mean if you are level 1 vs a lvl 50, ofc not. but level 35 vs 50, its possible depending how the game is made.
karma bombing wont be much of a a thing in aoc since it requires instant teleport for that to work.
low levels arent exempt of the rules. if they fk around, they will find out. if they try to grief and a higher level kills them, theyve earned it. they can always write that persons name down, level up and get back at him later. the system already protects them anyways by giving the pker massive corruption (in theory, and that seems fine).
Another simple reason is that basically, lower levels sorta need to be able to be a match for higher levels in a specific range statistically for the purposes of the following situation:
A mid level group enters an area where they get good exp and also get decent or great loot drops. They set up their flow and everyone's doing good, the enemies are dying as fast as they respawn, all is great.
A single or duo of higher level players who want the same drops but don't care about the exp come in and start to disrupt or 'PvE grief' that lower level group. If the gap is in any way large enough that the Higher level player can cut down either the Healer or the Tank of the low level group easily, the entire dynamic of the game changes instantly.
It might be a change that some people like or believe is a positive, but the current system handles this better than any different one in the same general design space, for both sides.
im sleepy, havent taken my nap, but i think we finally agree on something 8D
1. I don't get honor PvP. Tbh I have only WoW experience in MMO genre. But who judges when its honor PK and when its grief PK? This looks like the messiest solution out there to me.
2. In a rule based system, there are always ways to exploit it unless its so strict that is sucks all the fun out it.
allowing a bit of leniency so that OW PvP doesn't die.
For example, this leniency is where Griefers make their entry.
3. Why does the corruption system have to be so complex? What is SO BAD about a corrupted player getting additional corruption while defending himself? They didn't give the other player a choice when they gained corruption. Either die or don't go corrupt. I just don't get the sympathy for the corrupted player cuz it definitely wasn't by mistake and if there is some such possibility please explain to me how?
All the ways to get around this system is just game mechanics... Use them or dont. What is this search of some absolute justice in a subjective environment? Play single player.
The level of carebear and QQ... my god.
"Suffer in silence"
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Comments
Do you want it expanded to allow honor PK or do you want it to make the honor PK unnecessary?
I don't hate it, but it would add incentive to become corrupt.
Even @Dygz has given examples of how to grief with PvE, trailing a group of mobs onto another player so they die to NPCs.
You can bully low levels by killing their quest objectives, swiping their gatherables because you have a mount, trail mobs onto them, show up with an even lower level character to get them to flag, etc.
And GMs will play a major factor, but they aren't to be relied upon if you can still create a solid system.
I never once stated my ideal system.
Your Scenario 1:
Leads into the other problem the current system has, which is karma bombing. Something that hasn't been addressed yet, hence the system needs further expanded and elaborated on. But - high levels killing low levels is already going to incur increased corruption.
And I welcome the fight, because I like to 1 v X all the time and should the combat system have a high enough skill ceiling, I kill all three of you - because my focus is on mastery especially on the combat system.
Your Scenario 2:
Evil? They are dishonorable, but they'll be flagged purple already, so you won't be penalized, but they will hit level 50 eventually and then you and your buddy are free to destroy them for being shitheads. But your entire premise is another reason why the system needs to be further elaborated upon.
Honor PK doesn't mean you're good or evil, it means honorable PKing/PvP.
If that is griefing then people get upset too easily.
Opt-in PvP just becomes a PvE realm. Look at new world
Yeah losing a good portion of the shit you just farmed is very upset easily.
The low level attacking would be a combatant and not give corruption...
I could say the same about people being upset over getting ganked. But if these things are done again and again to keep the player from doing anything, they become griefing.
No but he did open the door to karma bombing which from what I understand of L2 was another problem, which also is a form of griefing.
I understand that, but the way it is now is not very hospitable to pvp players. Sure the hi seas will be fun but unless its sieges or caravans, open world pvp will be dead. I just think the corruption is getting way into the weeds here. In the end you will have a carebear gathering base that will not flag. Bounty hunters will be bored shitless. I am willing to see how it plays out because we have not seen or heard the complete system on how it works, but right now I am not to optimistic about it. Now if greens had to gather resources in areas that made them go purple, such as high level contested areas it might help. To much complexity in systems creates more problems than necessary. What is the old adage? KISS...(keep it simple stupid). Not saying anyone is stupid, its just the saying lol.
Yea that's been discussed quite a bit. I've mentioned this about people having low class level characters with high artisan levels for gathering. I said to make artisan levels also count as a variable towards corruption, so if a low level is maxed out of lumberjacking, they give the same amount of corruption as killing a max class level would. Some people got upset.
1- karma bombing is only possible if you dont attack me... if you attack me with the low level, you are already purple (unless you wnt to make it that a high level becomes corrupt or gets punished attacking a low level too). and yes, you can attack them all and you will most likely lose if they are around the same skill level and gear.
2- not always. they can grief my friend without becoming purple. As you said, not just pvpers grief, which i agree. or they might not be purple anymore by the time i get there.
Nah I get what you mean. But honestly, I do believe there can be a solid balance so that corruption prevents griefing while allowing a bit of leniency so that OW PvP doesn't die. And so that the bounty system isn't useless.
- rules enforced by the game
- law enforced by the players
I would prefer if the players in a node could influence some corruption attributes in the area influenced by that node.
Eventually that would also show which behavior leads to better defended nodes.
I believe military nodes have this. Or at least, corruption isn't as big of a factor there.
This would remove the corruption penalties associated with defending yourself and give corrupted players the opportunity to flee.
I think this works perfectly with the current system as at this point, the red player is now the one not wanting to fight, and although they are not completely safe, it gives them "some" opportunity to maintain themselves. I think it works well too, kind of like a villain trying to turn another leaf who knocks out their pursuers on the road to redemption. If you die you did deserve it, but with this you are at least no longer killing green players.
Edit: You could even argue that this should be default, making the red player run up and finish off players increases the difficulty of killing other players.
1) We can't assume a low level will do enough significant damage to a high level - yet as we don't know and the chances of that high level being in a low level zone is slim, so I won't attack the low level especially if I can out heal it even if they're attempting to grief me.
Which is why karma bombing might be a problem. Which is also cause to further discuss the system, because you've highlighted why it needs to be talked about.
2) So then again, thats cause to discuss the system. Because I support the system not allowing low levels to be griefed by higher levels; if your concern is that you go to help your friend and you cannot do anything about it, then the conversation is definitely warranted.
You can never force a positive behavior out of a negative situation. Nor can you make the player be nice.
What you can do is cause them to go else where by making sure the area is hostile towards their behavior.
They'll just take their bullshit elsewhere, which is the result you can strive for.
I don't hate it, but you may as well just turn on CCs instead. That'd be enough to attempt escapes
sounds reasonable but it isnt. now you can keep greens perma down xDD. knock them down everytime they get up and you get 0 penalties for it.
please dont shove popcorn down our throat. i dont wanna be around people shoving popcorn down other peoples throat
i mean if you are level 1 vs a lvl 50, ofc not. but level 35 vs 50, its possible depending how the game is made.
karma bombing wont be much of a a thing in aoc since it requires instant teleport for that to work.
low levels arent exempt of the rules. if they fk around, they will find out. if they try to grief and a higher level kills them, theyve earned it. they can always write that persons name down, level up and get back at him later. the system already protects them anyways by giving the pker massive corruption (in theory, and that seems fine).
Another simple reason is that basically, lower levels sorta need to be able to be a match for higher levels in a specific range statistically for the purposes of the following situation:
A mid level group enters an area where they get good exp and also get decent or great loot drops. They set up their flow and everyone's doing good, the enemies are dying as fast as they respawn, all is great.
A single or duo of higher level players who want the same drops but don't care about the exp come in and start to disrupt or 'PvE grief' that lower level group. If the gap is in any way large enough that the Higher level player can cut down either the Healer or the Tank of the low level group easily, the entire dynamic of the game changes instantly.
It might be a change that some people like or believe is a positive, but the current system handles this better than any different one in the same general design space, for both sides.
A group of 8 players good at PvP decide to kill gatherers. They kill a gatherer and one goes red. Now they can do that 7 more times (different killer every time) and everyone is corrupt with one kill. During that time, any small force who attacks that group is going to get slaughtered. They'd be thrilled to be attacked, as the attacker is likely to drop something while orange and the group's corruption level will not go up. The only real danger is if a large PvP force decides to attack them. And at that point they're only 1 death in, so corruption levels are still "low"
The spiral of pain that is being corrupted and getting attacked by greens is the only real deterrent for a good group
im sleepy, havent taken my nap, but i think we finally agree on something 8D
2. In a rule based system, there are always ways to exploit it unless its so strict that is sucks all the fun out it.
For example, this leniency is where Griefers make their entry.
3. Why does the corruption system have to be so complex? What is SO BAD about a corrupted player getting additional corruption while defending himself? They didn't give the other player a choice when they gained corruption. Either die or don't go corrupt. I just don't get the sympathy for the corrupted player cuz it definitely wasn't by mistake and if there is some such possibility please explain to me how?
All the ways to get around this system is just game mechanics... Use them or dont. What is this search of some absolute justice in a subjective environment? Play single player.
The level of carebear and QQ... my god.