Dolyem wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » Raven016 wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » And that’s where the current proposed system lacks context. PKing isn’t bad, griefing is. Not all pking is griefing. Let's say the game can detect that a high level is killing low level mobs while there are other low level players nearby. Those low level players could tag the NPC and do a little bit of damage and each time this high level kills them, he could get a bar filled which could eventually make him corrupt. Would this be ok? By all means, let the higher level suffer the proposed penalties. It’s when someone kills someone their own level or near it is when I don’t really see it as griefing. what if a low level kills a high level? should the low level get a penalty then? When is a low level ever going to have an opportunity to kill a high level? In a high level zone? The mobs will kill them. In a town? The guards will kill them. Hows a low level going to kill a high level with 40%-50% of gear being player power? and the fish takes the bait ;3 according to you, in the ideal system:the player doing an honor kill shouldn't be penalized. the player griefing or being evil should be penalized. the higher level player will be penalized for killing lowbies. scenario 1: me and my 2-3 other buddies want to kill you, no reason, just for fun. or maybe we want the farming spot, but we dont want to go red or be penalized. maybe we just want to grief you a bit. we bring a low level alt, not super low, but definitely lower than you and attack you with it. you cant attack it or you will turn purple then we will kill you. the lower level character can kill you without any consequence now, since there wont be any penalty. you could make it so that the lower levels do 0 damage to higher levels with better gear, but now people who are 1 or 2 tier of gears below wont have a chance at pvp and the game will become gear based, not skill based. i think i saw you talking about that in another thread and complaining it shouldnt be gear based. so what do we do now? the meta will be having low level alts to grief people, unless they would get corruption for killing greens hmm... scenario 2: my friend joined the game, or he is leveling an alt. people his own level start griefing him because they are assholes. he cant win 3 vs 1 and asks me to help since im high level. should i get penalized for chasing away lower levels or killing them? we have a contradiction here. they are evil and im not, so i shouldnt be penalized, however, they are lower levels and i should be penalized. what do we do? someone even suggested i should get corruption if i kill the mobs near them lmao... any system that allows you to kill someone without corruption will be abused. corruption isnt a desirable state, but you can still go for it if there arent people nearby who will kill you before you drop karma, and people are incentivized to fight back anyways, since they will lose less if they die. The low level attacking would be a combatant and not give corruption...
Depraved wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » Raven016 wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » And that’s where the current proposed system lacks context. PKing isn’t bad, griefing is. Not all pking is griefing. Let's say the game can detect that a high level is killing low level mobs while there are other low level players nearby. Those low level players could tag the NPC and do a little bit of damage and each time this high level kills them, he could get a bar filled which could eventually make him corrupt. Would this be ok? By all means, let the higher level suffer the proposed penalties. It’s when someone kills someone their own level or near it is when I don’t really see it as griefing. what if a low level kills a high level? should the low level get a penalty then? When is a low level ever going to have an opportunity to kill a high level? In a high level zone? The mobs will kill them. In a town? The guards will kill them. Hows a low level going to kill a high level with 40%-50% of gear being player power? and the fish takes the bait ;3 according to you, in the ideal system:the player doing an honor kill shouldn't be penalized. the player griefing or being evil should be penalized. the higher level player will be penalized for killing lowbies. scenario 1: me and my 2-3 other buddies want to kill you, no reason, just for fun. or maybe we want the farming spot, but we dont want to go red or be penalized. maybe we just want to grief you a bit. we bring a low level alt, not super low, but definitely lower than you and attack you with it. you cant attack it or you will turn purple then we will kill you. the lower level character can kill you without any consequence now, since there wont be any penalty. you could make it so that the lower levels do 0 damage to higher levels with better gear, but now people who are 1 or 2 tier of gears below wont have a chance at pvp and the game will become gear based, not skill based. i think i saw you talking about that in another thread and complaining it shouldnt be gear based. so what do we do now? the meta will be having low level alts to grief people, unless they would get corruption for killing greens hmm... scenario 2: my friend joined the game, or he is leveling an alt. people his own level start griefing him because they are assholes. he cant win 3 vs 1 and asks me to help since im high level. should i get penalized for chasing away lower levels or killing them? we have a contradiction here. they are evil and im not, so i shouldnt be penalized, however, they are lower levels and i should be penalized. what do we do? someone even suggested i should get corruption if i kill the mobs near them lmao... any system that allows you to kill someone without corruption will be abused. corruption isnt a desirable state, but you can still go for it if there arent people nearby who will kill you before you drop karma, and people are incentivized to fight back anyways, since they will lose less if they die.
Solvryn wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » Raven016 wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » And that’s where the current proposed system lacks context. PKing isn’t bad, griefing is. Not all pking is griefing. Let's say the game can detect that a high level is killing low level mobs while there are other low level players nearby. Those low level players could tag the NPC and do a little bit of damage and each time this high level kills them, he could get a bar filled which could eventually make him corrupt. Would this be ok? By all means, let the higher level suffer the proposed penalties. It’s when someone kills someone their own level or near it is when I don’t really see it as griefing. what if a low level kills a high level? should the low level get a penalty then? When is a low level ever going to have an opportunity to kill a high level? In a high level zone? The mobs will kill them. In a town? The guards will kill them. Hows a low level going to kill a high level with 40%-50% of gear being player power?
Depraved wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » Raven016 wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » And that’s where the current proposed system lacks context. PKing isn’t bad, griefing is. Not all pking is griefing. Let's say the game can detect that a high level is killing low level mobs while there are other low level players nearby. Those low level players could tag the NPC and do a little bit of damage and each time this high level kills them, he could get a bar filled which could eventually make him corrupt. Would this be ok? By all means, let the higher level suffer the proposed penalties. It’s when someone kills someone their own level or near it is when I don’t really see it as griefing. what if a low level kills a high level? should the low level get a penalty then?
Solvryn wrote: » Raven016 wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » And that’s where the current proposed system lacks context. PKing isn’t bad, griefing is. Not all pking is griefing. Let's say the game can detect that a high level is killing low level mobs while there are other low level players nearby. Those low level players could tag the NPC and do a little bit of damage and each time this high level kills them, he could get a bar filled which could eventually make him corrupt. Would this be ok? By all means, let the higher level suffer the proposed penalties. It’s when someone kills someone their own level or near it is when I don’t really see it as griefing.
Raven016 wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » And that’s where the current proposed system lacks context. PKing isn’t bad, griefing is. Not all pking is griefing. Let's say the game can detect that a high level is killing low level mobs while there are other low level players nearby. Those low level players could tag the NPC and do a little bit of damage and each time this high level kills them, he could get a bar filled which could eventually make him corrupt. Would this be ok?
Solvryn wrote: » And that’s where the current proposed system lacks context. PKing isn’t bad, griefing is. Not all pking is griefing.
Dolyem wrote: » Ravicus wrote: » Wow the whole corruption idea is getting pretty out there. In my opinion it is so complex that maybe they should just go for the default flag/unflag system. All this banter back and forth on who gets corruption, who gets suckered into corruption, the various penalties for corruption. Seems to me it would be just cleaner and easier to flag/unflag. Opt-in PvP just becomes a PvE realm. Look at new world
Ravicus wrote: » Wow the whole corruption idea is getting pretty out there. In my opinion it is so complex that maybe they should just go for the default flag/unflag system. All this banter back and forth on who gets corruption, who gets suckered into corruption, the various penalties for corruption. Seems to me it would be just cleaner and easier to flag/unflag.
Solvryn wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » Raven016 wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » And that’s where the current proposed system lacks context. PKing isn’t bad, griefing is. Not all pking is griefing. Let's say the game can detect that a high level is killing low level mobs while there are other low level players nearby. Those low level players could tag the NPC and do a little bit of damage and each time this high level kills them, he could get a bar filled which could eventually make him corrupt. Would this be ok? By all means, let the higher level suffer the proposed penalties. It’s when someone kills someone their own level or near it is when I don’t really see it as griefing. what if a low level kills a high level? should the low level get a penalty then? When is a low level ever going to have an opportunity to kill a high level? In a high level zone? The mobs will kill them. In a town? The guards will kill them. Hows a low level going to kill a high level with 40%-50% of gear being player power? and the fish takes the bait ;3 according to you, in the ideal system:the player doing an honor kill shouldn't be penalized. the player griefing or being evil should be penalized. the higher level player will be penalized for killing lowbies. scenario 1: me and my 2-3 other buddies want to kill you, no reason, just for fun. or maybe we want the farming spot, but we dont want to go red or be penalized. maybe we just want to grief you a bit. we bring a low level alt, not super low, but definitely lower than you and attack you with it. you cant attack it or you will turn purple then we will kill you. the lower level character can kill you without any consequence now, since there wont be any penalty. you could make it so that the lower levels do 0 damage to higher levels with better gear, but now people who are 1 or 2 tier of gears below wont have a chance at pvp and the game will become gear based, not skill based. i think i saw you talking about that in another thread and complaining it shouldnt be gear based. so what do we do now? the meta will be having low level alts to grief people, unless they would get corruption for killing greens hmm... scenario 2: my friend joined the game, or he is leveling an alt. people his own level start griefing him because they are assholes. he cant win 3 vs 1 and asks me to help since im high level. should i get penalized for chasing away lower levels or killing them? we have a contradiction here. they are evil and im not, so i shouldnt be penalized, however, they are lower levels and i should be penalized. what do we do? someone even suggested i should get corruption if i kill the mobs near them lmao... any system that allows you to kill someone without corruption will be abused. corruption isnt a desirable state, but you can still go for it if there arent people nearby who will kill you before you drop karma, and people are incentivized to fight back anyways, since they will lose less if they die. The low level attacking would be a combatant and not give corruption... No but he did open the door to karma bombing which from what I understand of L2 was another problem, which also is a form of griefing.
Solvryn wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » Raven016 wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » And that’s where the current proposed system lacks context. PKing isn’t bad, griefing is. Not all pking is griefing. Let's say the game can detect that a high level is killing low level mobs while there are other low level players nearby. Those low level players could tag the NPC and do a little bit of damage and each time this high level kills them, he could get a bar filled which could eventually make him corrupt. Would this be ok? By all means, let the higher level suffer the proposed penalties. It’s when someone kills someone their own level or near it is when I don’t really see it as griefing. what if a low level kills a high level? should the low level get a penalty then? When is a low level ever going to have an opportunity to kill a high level? In a high level zone? The mobs will kill them. In a town? The guards will kill them. Hows a low level going to kill a high level with 40%-50% of gear being player power? and the fish takes the bait ;3 according to you, in the ideal system:the player doing an honor kill shouldn't be penalized. the player griefing or being evil should be penalized. the higher level player will be penalized for killing lowbies. scenario 1: me and my 2-3 other buddies want to kill you, no reason, just for fun. or maybe we want the farming spot, but we dont want to go red or be penalized. maybe we just want to grief you a bit. we bring a low level alt, not super low, but definitely lower than you and attack you with it. you cant attack it or you will turn purple then we will kill you. the lower level character can kill you without any consequence now, since there wont be any penalty. you could make it so that the lower levels do 0 damage to higher levels with better gear, but now people who are 1 or 2 tier of gears below wont have a chance at pvp and the game will become gear based, not skill based. i think i saw you talking about that in another thread and complaining it shouldnt be gear based. so what do we do now? the meta will be having low level alts to grief people, unless they would get corruption for killing greens hmm... scenario 2: my friend joined the game, or he is leveling an alt. people his own level start griefing him because they are assholes. he cant win 3 vs 1 and asks me to help since im high level. should i get penalized for chasing away lower levels or killing them? we have a contradiction here. they are evil and im not, so i shouldnt be penalized, however, they are lower levels and i should be penalized. what do we do? someone even suggested i should get corruption if i kill the mobs near them lmao... I never once stated my ideal system. Your Scenario 1: Leads into the other problem the current system has, which is karma bombing. Something that hasn't been addressed yet, hence the system needs further expanded and elaborated on. But - high levels killing low levels is already going to incur increased corruption. And I welcome the fight, because I like to 1 v X all the time and should the combat system have a high enough skill ceiling, I kill all three of you - because my focus is on mastery especially on the combat system. Your Scenario 2: Evil? They are dishonorable, but they'll be flagged purple already, so you won't be penalized, but they will hit level 50 eventually and then you and your buddy are free to destroy them for being shitheads. But your entire premise is another reason why the system needs to be further elaborated upon. Honor PK doesn't mean you're good or evil, it means honorable PKing/PvP.
Depraved wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » Raven016 wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » And that’s where the current proposed system lacks context. PKing isn’t bad, griefing is. Not all pking is griefing. Let's say the game can detect that a high level is killing low level mobs while there are other low level players nearby. Those low level players could tag the NPC and do a little bit of damage and each time this high level kills them, he could get a bar filled which could eventually make him corrupt. Would this be ok? By all means, let the higher level suffer the proposed penalties. It’s when someone kills someone their own level or near it is when I don’t really see it as griefing. what if a low level kills a high level? should the low level get a penalty then? When is a low level ever going to have an opportunity to kill a high level? In a high level zone? The mobs will kill them. In a town? The guards will kill them. Hows a low level going to kill a high level with 40%-50% of gear being player power? and the fish takes the bait ;3 according to you, in the ideal system:the player doing an honor kill shouldn't be penalized. the player griefing or being evil should be penalized. the higher level player will be penalized for killing lowbies. scenario 1: me and my 2-3 other buddies want to kill you, no reason, just for fun. or maybe we want the farming spot, but we dont want to go red or be penalized. maybe we just want to grief you a bit. we bring a low level alt, not super low, but definitely lower than you and attack you with it. you cant attack it or you will turn purple then we will kill you. the lower level character can kill you without any consequence now, since there wont be any penalty. you could make it so that the lower levels do 0 damage to higher levels with better gear, but now people who are 1 or 2 tier of gears below wont have a chance at pvp and the game will become gear based, not skill based. i think i saw you talking about that in another thread and complaining it shouldnt be gear based. so what do we do now? the meta will be having low level alts to grief people, unless they would get corruption for killing greens hmm... scenario 2: my friend joined the game, or he is leveling an alt. people his own level start griefing him because they are assholes. he cant win 3 vs 1 and asks me to help since im high level. should i get penalized for chasing away lower levels or killing them? we have a contradiction here. they are evil and im not, so i shouldnt be penalized, however, they are lower levels and i should be penalized. what do we do? someone even suggested i should get corruption if i kill the mobs near them lmao...
Ravicus wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » Ravicus wrote: » Wow the whole corruption idea is getting pretty out there. In my opinion it is so complex that maybe they should just go for the default flag/unflag system. All this banter back and forth on who gets corruption, who gets suckered into corruption, the various penalties for corruption. Seems to me it would be just cleaner and easier to flag/unflag. Opt-in PvP just becomes a PvE realm. Look at new world I understand that, but the way it is now is not very hospitable to pvp players. Sure the hi seas will be fun but unless its sieges or caravans, open world pvp will be dead. I just think the corruption is getting way into the weeds here. In the end you will have a carebear gathering base that will not flag. Bounty hunters will be bored shitless. I am willing to see how it plays out because we have not seen or heard the complete system on how it works, but right now I am not to optimistic about it. Now if greens had to gather resources in areas that made them go purple, such as high level contested areas it might help. To much complexity in systems creates more problems than necessary. What is the old adage? KISS...(keep it simple stupid). Not saying anyone is stupid, its just the saying lol.
Raven016 wrote: » There are two ways to make players be nice: - rules enforced by the game - law enforced by the players I would prefer if the players in a node could influence some corruption attributes in the area influenced by that node. Eventually that would also show which behavior leads to better defended nodes.
Depraved wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » Raven016 wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » And that’s where the current proposed system lacks context. PKing isn’t bad, griefing is. Not all pking is griefing. Let's say the game can detect that a high level is killing low level mobs while there are other low level players nearby. Those low level players could tag the NPC and do a little bit of damage and each time this high level kills them, he could get a bar filled which could eventually make him corrupt. Would this be ok? By all means, let the higher level suffer the proposed penalties. It’s when someone kills someone their own level or near it is when I don’t really see it as griefing. what if a low level kills a high level? should the low level get a penalty then? When is a low level ever going to have an opportunity to kill a high level? In a high level zone? The mobs will kill them. In a town? The guards will kill them. Hows a low level going to kill a high level with 40%-50% of gear being player power? and the fish takes the bait ;3 according to you, in the ideal system:the player doing an honor kill shouldn't be penalized. the player griefing or being evil should be penalized. the higher level player will be penalized for killing lowbies. scenario 1: me and my 2-3 other buddies want to kill you, no reason, just for fun. or maybe we want the farming spot, but we dont want to go red or be penalized. maybe we just want to grief you a bit. we bring a low level alt, not super low, but definitely lower than you and attack you with it. you cant attack it or you will turn purple then we will kill you. the lower level character can kill you without any consequence now, since there wont be any penalty. you could make it so that the lower levels do 0 damage to higher levels with better gear, but now people who are 1 or 2 tier of gears below wont have a chance at pvp and the game will become gear based, not skill based. i think i saw you talking about that in another thread and complaining it shouldnt be gear based. so what do we do now? the meta will be having low level alts to grief people, unless they would get corruption for killing greens hmm... scenario 2: my friend joined the game, or he is leveling an alt. people his own level start griefing him because they are assholes. he cant win 3 vs 1 and asks me to help since im high level. should i get penalized for chasing away lower levels or killing them? we have a contradiction here. they are evil and im not, so i shouldnt be penalized, however, they are lower levels and i should be penalized. what do we do? someone even suggested i should get corruption if i kill the mobs near them lmao... I never once stated my ideal system. Your Scenario 1: Leads into the other problem the current system has, which is karma bombing. Something that hasn't been addressed yet, hence the system needs further expanded and elaborated on. But - high levels killing low levels is already going to incur increased corruption. And I welcome the fight, because I like to 1 v X all the time and should the combat system have a high enough skill ceiling, I kill all three of you - because my focus is on mastery especially on the combat system. Your Scenario 2: Evil? They are dishonorable, but they'll be flagged purple already, so you won't be penalized, but they will hit level 50 eventually and then you and your buddy are free to destroy them for being shitheads. But your entire premise is another reason why the system needs to be further elaborated upon. Honor PK doesn't mean you're good or evil, it means honorable PKing/PvP. 1- karma bombing is only possible if you dont attack me... if you attack me with the low level, you are already purple (unless you wnt to make it that a high level becomes corrupt or gets punished attacking a low level too). and yes, you can attack them all and you will most likely lose if they are around the same skill level and gear. 2- not always. they can grief my friend without becoming purple. As you said, not just pvpers grief, which i agree. or they might not be purple anymore by the time i get there.
Sathrago wrote: » Perhaps a 4th flag is not needed. What if corrupted players are allowed a "non-lethal" option they can turn on so that when they have to fight back against a green player, damage that would kill the player will instead knock them down for a minute or two. This would remove the corruption penalties associated with defending yourself and give corrupted players the opportunity to flee. I think this works perfectly with the current system as at this point, the red player is now the one not wanting to fight, and although they are not completely safe, it gives them "some" opportunity to maintain themselves. I think it works well too, kind of like a villain trying to turn another leaf who knocks out their pursuers on the road to redemption. If you die you did deserve it, but with this you are at least no longer killing green players. Edit: You could even argue that this should be default, making the red player run up and finish off players increases the difficulty of killing other players.
Dygz wrote: » I think I can just sit back and eat my popcorn for a while on this one.
Solvryn wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » Raven016 wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » And that’s where the current proposed system lacks context. PKing isn’t bad, griefing is. Not all pking is griefing. Let's say the game can detect that a high level is killing low level mobs while there are other low level players nearby. Those low level players could tag the NPC and do a little bit of damage and each time this high level kills them, he could get a bar filled which could eventually make him corrupt. Would this be ok? By all means, let the higher level suffer the proposed penalties. It’s when someone kills someone their own level or near it is when I don’t really see it as griefing. what if a low level kills a high level? should the low level get a penalty then? When is a low level ever going to have an opportunity to kill a high level? In a high level zone? The mobs will kill them. In a town? The guards will kill them. Hows a low level going to kill a high level with 40%-50% of gear being player power? and the fish takes the bait ;3 according to you, in the ideal system:the player doing an honor kill shouldn't be penalized. the player griefing or being evil should be penalized. the higher level player will be penalized for killing lowbies. scenario 1: me and my 2-3 other buddies want to kill you, no reason, just for fun. or maybe we want the farming spot, but we dont want to go red or be penalized. maybe we just want to grief you a bit. we bring a low level alt, not super low, but definitely lower than you and attack you with it. you cant attack it or you will turn purple then we will kill you. the lower level character can kill you without any consequence now, since there wont be any penalty. you could make it so that the lower levels do 0 damage to higher levels with better gear, but now people who are 1 or 2 tier of gears below wont have a chance at pvp and the game will become gear based, not skill based. i think i saw you talking about that in another thread and complaining it shouldnt be gear based. so what do we do now? the meta will be having low level alts to grief people, unless they would get corruption for killing greens hmm... scenario 2: my friend joined the game, or he is leveling an alt. people his own level start griefing him because they are assholes. he cant win 3 vs 1 and asks me to help since im high level. should i get penalized for chasing away lower levels or killing them? we have a contradiction here. they are evil and im not, so i shouldnt be penalized, however, they are lower levels and i should be penalized. what do we do? someone even suggested i should get corruption if i kill the mobs near them lmao... I never once stated my ideal system. Your Scenario 1: Leads into the other problem the current system has, which is karma bombing. Something that hasn't been addressed yet, hence the system needs further expanded and elaborated on. But - high levels killing low levels is already going to incur increased corruption. And I welcome the fight, because I like to 1 v X all the time and should the combat system have a high enough skill ceiling, I kill all three of you - because my focus is on mastery especially on the combat system. Your Scenario 2: Evil? They are dishonorable, but they'll be flagged purple already, so you won't be penalized, but they will hit level 50 eventually and then you and your buddy are free to destroy them for being shitheads. But your entire premise is another reason why the system needs to be further elaborated upon. Honor PK doesn't mean you're good or evil, it means honorable PKing/PvP. 1- karma bombing is only possible if you dont attack me... if you attack me with the low level, you are already purple (unless you wnt to make it that a high level becomes corrupt or gets punished attacking a low level too). and yes, you can attack them all and you will most likely lose if they are around the same skill level and gear. 2- not always. they can grief my friend without becoming purple. As you said, not just pvpers grief, which i agree. or they might not be purple anymore by the time i get there. 1) We can't assume a low level will do enough significant damage to a high level - yet as we don't know and the chances of that high level being in a low level zone is slim, so I won't attack the low level especially if I can out heal it even if they're attempting to grief me. Which is why karma bombing might be a problem. Which is also cause to further discuss the system, because you've highlighted why it needs to be talked about. 2) So then again, thats cause to discuss the system. Because I support the system not allowing low levels to be griefed by higher levels; if your concern is that you go to help your friend and you cannot do anything about it, then the conversation is definitely warranted.
Depraved wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » Raven016 wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » And that’s where the current proposed system lacks context. PKing isn’t bad, griefing is. Not all pking is griefing. Let's say the game can detect that a high level is killing low level mobs while there are other low level players nearby. Those low level players could tag the NPC and do a little bit of damage and each time this high level kills them, he could get a bar filled which could eventually make him corrupt. Would this be ok? By all means, let the higher level suffer the proposed penalties. It’s when someone kills someone their own level or near it is when I don’t really see it as griefing. what if a low level kills a high level? should the low level get a penalty then? When is a low level ever going to have an opportunity to kill a high level? In a high level zone? The mobs will kill them. In a town? The guards will kill them. Hows a low level going to kill a high level with 40%-50% of gear being player power? and the fish takes the bait ;3 according to you, in the ideal system:the player doing an honor kill shouldn't be penalized. the player griefing or being evil should be penalized. the higher level player will be penalized for killing lowbies. scenario 1: me and my 2-3 other buddies want to kill you, no reason, just for fun. or maybe we want the farming spot, but we dont want to go red or be penalized. maybe we just want to grief you a bit. we bring a low level alt, not super low, but definitely lower than you and attack you with it. you cant attack it or you will turn purple then we will kill you. the lower level character can kill you without any consequence now, since there wont be any penalty. you could make it so that the lower levels do 0 damage to higher levels with better gear, but now people who are 1 or 2 tier of gears below wont have a chance at pvp and the game will become gear based, not skill based. i think i saw you talking about that in another thread and complaining it shouldnt be gear based. so what do we do now? the meta will be having low level alts to grief people, unless they would get corruption for killing greens hmm... scenario 2: my friend joined the game, or he is leveling an alt. people his own level start griefing him because they are assholes. he cant win 3 vs 1 and asks me to help since im high level. should i get penalized for chasing away lower levels or killing them? we have a contradiction here. they are evil and im not, so i shouldnt be penalized, however, they are lower levels and i should be penalized. what do we do? someone even suggested i should get corruption if i kill the mobs near them lmao... I never once stated my ideal system. Your Scenario 1: Leads into the other problem the current system has, which is karma bombing. Something that hasn't been addressed yet, hence the system needs further expanded and elaborated on. But - high levels killing low levels is already going to incur increased corruption. And I welcome the fight, because I like to 1 v X all the time and should the combat system have a high enough skill ceiling, I kill all three of you - because my focus is on mastery especially on the combat system. Your Scenario 2: Evil? They are dishonorable, but they'll be flagged purple already, so you won't be penalized, but they will hit level 50 eventually and then you and your buddy are free to destroy them for being shitheads. But your entire premise is another reason why the system needs to be further elaborated upon. Honor PK doesn't mean you're good or evil, it means honorable PKing/PvP. 1- karma bombing is only possible if you dont attack me... if you attack me with the low level, you are already purple (unless you wnt to make it that a high level becomes corrupt or gets punished attacking a low level too). and yes, you can attack them all and you will most likely lose if they are around the same skill level and gear. 2- not always. they can grief my friend without becoming purple. As you said, not just pvpers grief, which i agree. or they might not be purple anymore by the time i get there. 1) We can't assume a low level will do enough significant damage to a high level - yet as we don't know and the chances of that high level being in a low level zone is slim, so I won't attack the low level especially if I can out heal it even if they're attempting to grief me. Which is why karma bombing might be a problem. Which is also cause to further discuss the system, because you've highlighted why it needs to be talked about. 2) So then again, thats cause to discuss the system. Because I support the system not allowing low levels to be griefed by higher levels; if your concern is that you go to help your friend and you cannot do anything about it, then the conversation is definitely warranted. i mean if you are level 1 vs a lvl 50, ofc not. but level 35 vs 50, its possible depending how the game is made. karma bombing wont be much of a a thing in aoc since it requires instant teleport for that to work. low levels arent exempt of the rules. if they fk around, they will find out. if they try to grief and a higher level kills them, theyve earned it. they can always write that persons name down, level up and get back at him later. the system already protects them anyways by giving the pker massive corruption (in theory, and that seems fine).
Azherae wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » Raven016 wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » And that’s where the current proposed system lacks context. PKing isn’t bad, griefing is. Not all pking is griefing. Let's say the game can detect that a high level is killing low level mobs while there are other low level players nearby. Those low level players could tag the NPC and do a little bit of damage and each time this high level kills them, he could get a bar filled which could eventually make him corrupt. Would this be ok? By all means, let the higher level suffer the proposed penalties. It’s when someone kills someone their own level or near it is when I don’t really see it as griefing. what if a low level kills a high level? should the low level get a penalty then? When is a low level ever going to have an opportunity to kill a high level? In a high level zone? The mobs will kill them. In a town? The guards will kill them. Hows a low level going to kill a high level with 40%-50% of gear being player power? and the fish takes the bait ;3 according to you, in the ideal system:the player doing an honor kill shouldn't be penalized. the player griefing or being evil should be penalized. the higher level player will be penalized for killing lowbies. scenario 1: me and my 2-3 other buddies want to kill you, no reason, just for fun. or maybe we want the farming spot, but we dont want to go red or be penalized. maybe we just want to grief you a bit. we bring a low level alt, not super low, but definitely lower than you and attack you with it. you cant attack it or you will turn purple then we will kill you. the lower level character can kill you without any consequence now, since there wont be any penalty. you could make it so that the lower levels do 0 damage to higher levels with better gear, but now people who are 1 or 2 tier of gears below wont have a chance at pvp and the game will become gear based, not skill based. i think i saw you talking about that in another thread and complaining it shouldnt be gear based. so what do we do now? the meta will be having low level alts to grief people, unless they would get corruption for killing greens hmm... scenario 2: my friend joined the game, or he is leveling an alt. people his own level start griefing him because they are assholes. he cant win 3 vs 1 and asks me to help since im high level. should i get penalized for chasing away lower levels or killing them? we have a contradiction here. they are evil and im not, so i shouldnt be penalized, however, they are lower levels and i should be penalized. what do we do? someone even suggested i should get corruption if i kill the mobs near them lmao... I never once stated my ideal system. Your Scenario 1: Leads into the other problem the current system has, which is karma bombing. Something that hasn't been addressed yet, hence the system needs further expanded and elaborated on. But - high levels killing low levels is already going to incur increased corruption. And I welcome the fight, because I like to 1 v X all the time and should the combat system have a high enough skill ceiling, I kill all three of you - because my focus is on mastery especially on the combat system. Your Scenario 2: Evil? They are dishonorable, but they'll be flagged purple already, so you won't be penalized, but they will hit level 50 eventually and then you and your buddy are free to destroy them for being shitheads. But your entire premise is another reason why the system needs to be further elaborated upon. Honor PK doesn't mean you're good or evil, it means honorable PKing/PvP. 1- karma bombing is only possible if you dont attack me... if you attack me with the low level, you are already purple (unless you wnt to make it that a high level becomes corrupt or gets punished attacking a low level too). and yes, you can attack them all and you will most likely lose if they are around the same skill level and gear. 2- not always. they can grief my friend without becoming purple. As you said, not just pvpers grief, which i agree. or they might not be purple anymore by the time i get there. 1) We can't assume a low level will do enough significant damage to a high level - yet as we don't know and the chances of that high level being in a low level zone is slim, so I won't attack the low level especially if I can out heal it even if they're attempting to grief me. Which is why karma bombing might be a problem. Which is also cause to further discuss the system, because you've highlighted why it needs to be talked about. 2) So then again, thats cause to discuss the system. Because I support the system not allowing low levels to be griefed by higher levels; if your concern is that you go to help your friend and you cannot do anything about it, then the conversation is definitely warranted. i mean if you are level 1 vs a lvl 50, ofc not. but level 35 vs 50, its possible depending how the game is made. karma bombing wont be much of a a thing in aoc since it requires instant teleport for that to work. low levels arent exempt of the rules. if they fk around, they will find out. if they try to grief and a higher level kills them, theyve earned it. they can always write that persons name down, level up and get back at him later. the system already protects them anyways by giving the pker massive corruption (in theory, and that seems fine). Another simple reason is that basically, lower levels sorta need to be able to be a match for higher levels in a specific range statistically for the purposes of the following situation: A mid level group enters an area where they get good exp and also get decent or great loot drops. They set up their flow and everyone's doing good, the enemies are dying as fast as they respawn, all is great. A single or duo of higher level players who want the same drops but don't care about the exp come in and start to disrupt or 'PvE grief' that lower level group. If the gap is in any way large enough that the Higher level player can cut down either the Healer or the Tank of the low level group easily, the entire dynamic of the game changes instantly. It might be a change that some people like or believe is a positive, but the current system handles this better than any different one in the same general design space, for both sides.
Dolyem wrote: » allowing a bit of leniency so that OW PvP doesn't die.
Depraved wrote: » please dont shove popcorn down our throat. i dont wanna be around people shoving popcorn down other peoples throat
