I sincerely hope that "vendors selling gear gated behind reputation for non-exchangeable currency" will have some thought, finesse, and nuance. WoW and other MMOs turned this concept into the most boring but compulsory grind and called it "content" and even "innovation".
General Visuals
Don't like the new lighting model, still like the road, grass be ok.
Node Visuals
In the leadup to entering Winstead I really felt 'please don't let me like the old one better, please don't let me like the old one better...'
I like the old one better.
Of course, there's no way to know how interesting it would look in total because obviously, the dynamic is the point. But I don't like the base. There was talk about 'selling the Ashes of Creation look'. For me, you absolutely did not. You had that before. You don't have it now. I'm kind of sad that you chose the theme you did, for the Node, but so it is.
It's not like I was expecting this to look super special or really unique, I'm not complaining about that. I just don't like the style compared to the old. I'll just trust that going up to this level won't cause another 2 years of QA.
Hopefully the glorious Empyreans will cobble the roads of even their villages so everything isn't a muddy mess. How the Kaelar live like this is beyond me, truly.
Mayoral Control Stuff
Looks fine, but I'd assume the UI is going to change either way.
Construction Visuals
This doesn't affect my immersion, so I hope the effort put in here is really doing something for someone else. The methodology really gives a 'cheap' feeling, though. Basically it gives the impression that you're trying to 'sell' a MineCraft build algorithm as something more than that. And I say this as a person who absolutely loves the idea of just 'using something like that and moving on'. Moreso saying that I hope this was as low effort as it looked.
Conclusion:
As always, big thanks to all of the developers that joined for the stream, they did a great job, and were both entertaining and informative about everything. Information felt a little less clear this time around but I understand that it's a huge system.
I therefore hope that this feedback was somehow useful, whether as a catalyst for change, or incentive to double down knowing that I/we are not the intended audience and therefore negative reactions from me are a positive sign for y'all.
I guess I agree with most thing you said in the first half of the post.
I just disagree on the 2nd. I really, really like the lighting and the visuals.
Overall, I honestly don't know what to say. I'd have to re-watch everything, and then think about it for a bit.
I like how everything looks, I like the system on a surface level, because there's a lot of depth to it.
I again get the feeling that most of this is just locked for the vast majority of the playerbase, and is only there for the select few. It seems only a small minority of people will actually have access and interact with certain systems, and that they will simply have more things to do in game. I'm not saying that will be the case, but that's what we're being shown at the moment.
It's easy to expect large guild leaders, streamers/youtubers to easily control most, if not all nodes on the server, because apparently just having enough people on your side will be enough in most cases to get elected. Previously, I'd say players had a chance for at least 1 or 2 of the node types, but now it seems that that's gone as well, and instead we get the: bigger number equals better, a popularity contest of sorts.
Now I'm not saying that them having access to it is an inherently a bad thing, but there's a ton of stuff like that in the game already, that will only be accessible to them, or that's what we're being shown.
I didn't really see much about what a regular player's experience might look like, other than being there to serve the big guys and be another NPC for them. Again, that might not be the intent (I wouldn't be surprised if it is), but that's what we're being shown constantly in these streams.
Overall, it was definitely one of the best streams so far. I don't have the time to rewatch and think about everything, so I guess my feedback wont be really detailed or focused on the stream itself, but rather an overall picture. Everything we're being shown is from a perspective of a player who is a mayor, who is a freehold owner, etc. - but the vast majority of players won't be that.
I think it is important to show these systems from that perspective as well, but it's just as important to show it from a perspective of a regular player and how they might interact with the system, and what they can expect to get out from it.
In Darkfall there was a concept called asset wars, (all city assets were destructible). And what you would do is level cities and never claim them, thus making it so the guild who owned the city had to empty out their personal assets (time) until they had nothing left in their banks and they had to go out and farm to repair the city.
This became an incredibly taboo practice would get you kicked out of your guild.
After watching the stream, it's very clear to me that asset wars (see above) and asset exhaustion (the constant grind of repairing a city) can become a real thing in Ashes too.
I hope the cost of wars are incredibly costly and steep, an up front cost to a conflict cycle. So we don't have asset burnout on the end of a conflict cycle causing players to quit.
Some ways to mitigate this:
-Siege tech being timely and expensive
-Make Assets only damaged by siege tech
-Siege tech cannot go in bags - only the parts in appropriate boxes that must be escorted via caravans everywhere
-Siegetech Stations having decay with an expensive upkeep
The biggest problem with Darkfall is that the siege tech was easy to carry around as a munition.
i feel there more incentive to go through and actually destroy the node instead of just leveling it, cities in darkfall didnt mean much after you had one outside of an extra mine. in ashes though destroying a node allows other nodes to progress and move the world forward, they also said it quite costly too from what they said to declare a node war so i feel you would wanna follow through with it but we shal see where things go
It's looking good so far. I really liked the construction visuals, that was a nice touch.
Am a little concerned with the new Military Node Election. Feels like it'll just be another Scientific "popularity vote", with some candidates having maybe 3 backers, and another having 300. The previous mechanic seemed like a more fair method, and feels more worth testing before removal/replacement.
Edit: Oh, I also liked seeing the armour/cosmetic sets at the end. More of that each time, please!
Right, gonna write stuff as it came up in the livestream:
1)PPT presentation: very nice, i like the fact that it was done live and chat could ask a few questions, the best way to present new systems. I would even say a (short) ppt presentation could work when presenting classes, talking a little bit about the class role and augments (when augments become part of the presentation)
2) 1st Slide - Citizenship: a few questions here:
- How often are the citizenship fees? And is it an automated process that strips players of their citizenship if they miss even 1 fee? (i am thinking holidays etc when people can't join for a significant period)
- Regarding freeholds and Refugee: as far as I know, a player can defend their freehold even if the node is destroyed and keep it. I assume when the timer to destroy the freehold is up, the freehold goes under the ZOI of another node in the area and the player get citizenship in that node (as they own housing, the freehold, in that nodes ZOI) . Can the player that owns the freehold pick which node the freehold goes under or is it random? (My 2 cents: let the player pick which node gets the Freehold. It need to be one that is close, but considering how much of an investment freeholds are, the player should have some say in this case)
3) 2nd Slide - Mayorship:
-regarding Military nodes: There was mention that during the FFA fight for mayorship, other players come assist the mayoral candidate in the fight. While i like this better than the whole Champion thing, having the players fight themselves, i don't think that others should be able to help them, or at most a maximum of the smallest group size. I get why you guys went with this, classes aren't balanced in 1v1 fights, but at the same time, having other join to assist, it kinda becomes the same thing as a Scientific node (popular vote), as the most popular candidate will have the most players that help them. Guilds will already have an advantage in Scientific and Economic nodes (more ppl means more votes/money), but Military should be more skill based. I say cap the maximum number of assists to 8 (or even lower tbh).
-Economic: does the bid for the mayorship go into the treasury after the election?
-Divine: does the favour after an election get reset for all players or just the major?
-Regarding repeat wins in the election: this one is kinda interesting. Scientific nodes can totally have the same mayor over and over again if they are voted, all they need to do is not suck. Military nodes can also have the same mayor over and over, assuming they win. Economic and Divine, based on how I understand it, not so much. Because the mayor will have to spend time to get either gold or favor in the month when they are mayor to get elected again, meaning that either they spend time doing that and not really work on the node or they work on the node and have no chance to get elected again. Divine and Economic seem to have the highest time investment to actually become mayors. This will, long term, mean that those nodes won't be as well managed as Military or Scientific. Testing needs to happen, but I would say that those 2 types need some way for Mayors to gain favor/gold while they are mayors so they can compete for repeat elections. Not enough to for sure win again, but enough so they can compete with the players that have a full month to gather favor/gold. Otherwise, Economic and Divine nodes will be 2nd class nodes for players and all will go to either a Scientific or a Military one.
-How is the node type selected? Is it defined at the start and all servers will have the same node types in the same space (for example Winsted (i think it was named, the one in the video), that is scientific node in the Riverlands. Will all servers have the option to get a Scientific node in the Riverlands called Winstead in that exact place?).
-Can node type change on node lvl up? So if a lvl 3 Economic node spends most of its time doing combat with other cities (or whatever else), when they get to a lvl 4 node, they become a Military one? (i know this is probably really hard to do, but damn if it isn't cool)
4) 3rd Slide - Mandates:
-Really cool idea, however the number and power of mandates should be determined by the Node type. A Scientific node mayor should have really limited mandates, while a Divine or Military one should have more mandates and stronger mandates. Also, an Economic node mayor should be able to buy mandates from the people (legit make it a shop, where players can go and get gold for mandates, goes hand in hand with the intent of an Economic node, letting the mayor buy votes)
5) 4th slide - Mayoral Commissions:
-There needs to be more info regarding the nodes currency, as far as i understood, these are bound currency that can only be used in a node. But are they also node specific or node type specific or can they be used in any node?
6) 5th Slide - Policies:
-not much to say here, we need some examples as to what they can do
7) 6th & 7th Slide - Service Buildings:
-here, i really like this idea. However, based on what was said later, that a node needs 3 blacksmiths each for slashing weapons, piercing weapons and bludgeoning weapons... this seems cool on paper, however, considering how many professions there are, it will be a massive pain.
A lvl 3 node had 4 slots to build buildings ( as we saw in the video). Assuming they double each level, that is 8 slots for lvl 4 and 16 slots for level 5. There are right now 8 crafting professions and 9 processing professions. Which means that a metropolis cannot have 1 of each for both crafting and processing even if they want to. (i know, top tier processing is done in freeholds, but some level is also done in nodes).
But lets only talk about crafting. So 8 crafting professions. Assuming all have the same path as weapon smiting, 3 each, that is 24. Also, you need to build passive buildings that buff the buildings. So to have a node dedicated to weapon smiting, you need 3 blacksmiths + probably another building for each to buff it, so that is 6.
That is flat out, not enough slots. Not all professions are the same. Weapon and armour smiting are more valuable than scribing for example, so there will be whole areas of the map that just do not have a top tier scribing area. There will be servers without scribing anywhere, as weapon, armour and jewels will trump them.
Testing needs to be done, but there needs to be more plots to build stuff. I just looked in the video, and based on the UI Steven has open (1:47:15 in the livestream, i can count 7 possible buildings to be build, and the scroll is halfway up, so a potential of 14 buildings at lvl 3 node. There needs to be more spots or a big chunk of professions wont have a slot anywhere.
I get the idea that no one node can do anything, but right now it seems that each node can only 1 thing. and for big cities, that dosent really make sense.
8) 8th Slide - Buy Orders:
-real good system, be sure you allow players to put buy orders as well in a trade house or something, I know this was a topic in guilds discussion i think awhile back, but the idea that i go out and collect resources for a player to do something with (rather that collect it and throw it into the void that is a NPCs pack) is real nice, especially when it comes to sieges, as those that build defenses can put up buy orders and players can see during the fight where their resources went to
9) Video - 1:17:44
-I don't really like the fact that a mayor can set up a buy order from anywhere, it should only be possible in the town hall
10) Video - 1:19:23
-The idea that you can make the same industrial resource with different ingredients based on the location of the node is really cool, however, I would propose having 2 ingredients parameters, as to make it worth it for players in different biomes to travel to your node. For example, Steven picks ingredients that are around the node, but I assume the same rocks wont be in a desert, making it not worth it for players in a desert node to travel to your node, as they need to come here and start mining for the specific ingredients you picked. So, when putting up the buy order for Bins of Stone, have 2 tabs for ingredients, and the mayor can make one tab with local ingredients and one tab with not-local ingredients, making it worth for players to make the trip, bringing their resources with them. As it is now, there is no reason to start a caravan from the desert that brings the blue stone, as players there don't have blue stone.
11) Video - 1:20:01
-Node currency needs to be explained:)) how does a node make node currency, is there a limit, if node currency can be used in any node, can 1 node cause inflation server-wise bc they spam buy orders, etc etc )
12)Video - 1:21:02
- "The more you pay, the more it will cost the node treasury" - and here i am, confused yet again, regarding node currency.... so it is related to the gold a node has, but it isn't gold? Please explain it:)))
13) Video - 1:21:33
-Duration - What is the detriment for putting max duration on any buy order? Considering there is a limit on how much you wanna buy (the quantity tab), the order is gonna finish, when that quantity is achieved. I don't see what it adds by having a duration, if the node needs something, they are gonna keep needing it until the buy order is complete.
14) Video - 1:21:40
-"Regardless if the players finish it, you've payed for it". No. Sorry, but that is a bad choice. The city dosent just delete the money they haven't used if a buy order isn't complete on time. On the contrary, the money from the treasury should only be removed when a player gets the materials to the node. You've made it like a normal trade house system, which dosen't make sense, as this is the city that is buying stuff, not a player that uses a trade house. The node owns the trade house. Please change this, makes no sense to waste money if a buy order isn't completed.
15) Video - 1:22:30
-Insider Trading: should definitely be a thing, however, it should be somewhat obvious that it has happened. For example, have the node made an announcement "NEW BUY ORDER" and then 2 min later "BUY ORDER COMPLETED". This way, the players of the node know that their lovely mayor is doing some shifty stuff. The announcement shouldn't be overtly obvious, maybe just a message in chat or maybe even just a ledger that people can check. So it isnt completely hidden with no way to cause drama (drama is the best part about MMOs)
16) Video - 1:24:13
Damn the world looks nice
17) Video - 1:25:13
-What is the benefit for a node to pick materials that aren't local to its area? Bins of Stone for example, why would I as a mayor pick materials that arent close to the node and thus making it less likely that the buy order completes and making it a longer timeframe from the buy order to be completed?
18)Video - 1:25:23
-"They might not even have access to certain buy order for commodities that are local to them" .....why? What sense does that make? If the meaning here is that certain biomes have unique materials that can only be found in a specific biome, that makes sense, but it isnt what was said. It sounds like at some point nodes will no longer be able to use the resources local to them, which makes 0 sense. They say that "higher tier commodities would be further away" but that still makes no sense. It should be "unique commodities are further away" not higher tier commodities
19) Video - 1:25:42
-"Will players around the world have an opportunity to inspect the types of buy order that are currently listed at a particular node? Yea they will be able to" ......NOOOOOOOO! Whyyyy.... this is...noo...so the whole idea that a player on the East continent dosen't know what is going on the West continent unless they go there is dead. Don't make it like this, at least limit it around where the player is, a few nodes around them.
20) Video - 1:26:26
Guards patrolling the area. Real nice, however how will they interact with players hunting mobs or caravans that are attacked, will they come to defend caravans? (also, there should be groups of 3 guards, solo guards look weird)
21) Video - 1:28:46
Caravansary is outside the walls? Not sure that is safe tbh
22) Video - 1:29:41
Is that a freehold? Isn't it really close to the city? I mean, As it levels up, i kinda expended the node to get big enough engulf that plot of land inside the walls?
23) Video - 1:31:27
Potion of invisibility - I assume Steven could see James bc of GM hacks, but will a potion like this allow you to sneak into a city? Maybe one you are at war with and cause mayhem? And what could a city do to prevent that? Otherwise, node wars will descend into invisible raids over and over again.
24) Video - 1:31:41
The node looks amazing, feels lived in, natural, 10/10 would live there
25) Video - 1:32:53
The wanted poster is cool, maybe have these posters put up for corrupted players?
26) Video - 1:35:31
Regarding node level up, they mention that small construction will take place, but is node level up still a "snap your fingers and its done" thing? Or will it take time. And if does take time, is a node more vulnerable during this phase? Walls being build etc
27) Video - 1:37:48
It's a small thing, but will NPCs address the mayor as "Mayor"?
28) Video - 1:39:16
I love that Steven fails at NPC interactions, not just combat. Keep it up Steven, one of these days you'll get it
29) Video - 1:42:53
Buying from an NPC. So taxes are 75%... so 75% of what an NPC "makes" goes to the treasury? Its a NPC, why isn't it 100% and the taxes increase the price? Or how does it work?
30) Video - 1:47:00
Buildings can be upgraded. While a building is upgraded, assuming it takes time, is that building usable while the upgrading is taking place?
31) Video - 1:49:47
If players dont contribute to a building, it wont be build. I think this needs testing, i can totally see nodes that don't progress because of lazy players
32) Video - 1:52:00
real nice construction animation
33) Video - 1:56:40
He was lucky guards, weren't around, as he violated the law of the land
34) Video - 1:58:58
We need a crafting livestream
35) Video - 2:03:58
The node really looks fantastic, great job!
What excites you about playing and interacting with the Node system?
Choosing a node to be a citizen of which best suits me. Taking into account the city culture, where majority of my guild is located, buildings, policies present in the node, the biome etc. Also working together with other people to create a node we would like to live in.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Village Node Update?
I expected the systems and tech art to be further along, but that was under the assumption that some of what was shown before UE5 would be used in the showcase.
I'm excited about the number of systems there will be that allow people to interact with the node economy.
What are your thoughts about the visual fidelity of what was shown with the Village Node Update?
The visuals are obviously amazing, there is not much to criticize maybe except the clouds in the sky looked a little out of place.
In Darkfall there was a concept called asset wars, (all city assets were destructible). And what you would do is level cities and never claim them, thus making it so the guild who owned the city had to empty out their personal assets (time) until they had nothing left in their banks and they had to go out and farm to repair the city.
This became an incredibly taboo practice would get you kicked out of your guild.
After watching the stream, it's very clear to me that asset wars (see above) and asset exhaustion (the constant grind of repairing a city) can become a real thing in Ashes too.
I hope the cost of wars are incredibly costly and steep, an up front cost to a conflict cycle. So we don't have asset burnout on the end of a conflict cycle causing players to quit.
Some ways to mitigate this:
-Siege tech being timely and expensive
-Make Assets only damaged by siege tech
-Siege tech cannot go in bags - only the parts in appropriate boxes that must be escorted via caravans everywhere
-Siegetech Stations having decay with an expensive upkeep
The biggest problem with Darkfall is that the siege tech was easy to carry around as a munition.
i feel there more incentive to go through and actually destroy the node instead of just leveling it, cities in darkfall didnt mean much after you had one outside of an extra mine. in ashes though destroying a node allows other nodes to progress and move the world forward, they also said it quite costly too from what they said to declare a node war so i feel you would wanna follow through with it but we shal see where things go
Aye, but really I’m looking at attrition vs player burn out, which there’s a potential for that.
DFUW made cities much more worth it if they were mega cities.
How do you feel about the Village Node Update so far?
Village node update was good, liked that we saw how mayor setting goals drives the world economy.
What excites you about playing and interacting with the Node system?
- The idea of "get x item quest" instead being tied to the progress of a node.
- Players being able to grow and contribute to any node they want by fulfilling mayoral orders. Even if a guild is trying to own node, a random player should still be able to work hard at being the biggest contributor and get the most node bucks.
- The variations that will make each server unique.
- Even though people say guilds will own all the nodes/mayors, the best node for your character might not be one that your guild has control of.
- With so many options for the mayor to choose from it will be awesome to see the different conflicts about where to go for your citizenship, or where to travel for items, etc.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Village Node Update?
Concerns:
- I'd prefer if they released an Alpha 2 system with crap assets but all the core game mechanics so that we can iron out the wrinkles in the game mechanics, which is what you actually need real players to do. Most of this stuff we can't really comment on until we play and then give feedback.
- Would like to see some systems for discovering what other nodes have/want so that you can travel with purpose.The time it takes to travel to different nodes and find the one that has your "blunt items weapon creator" might end up being very difficult to build a character around. Maybe there is none on the server and you spend all your time looking for something that doesn't exist. Guilds and players will make dupes and plant them in every node and websites will post scraped data from every node unless the devs do something to provide this information in a better way.
- Don't want this system to completely replace good world quest storylines and NPC quests that make the world of Verra seem more than just a landscape and some cities run by mayoral fetch quests. It's fine if NPC "fetch" quests are replaced by the mayor ones, that is a great improvement to traditional questing. We should still have a storyline for the world, nodes and bosses though, so that we can understand the history, have goals for the present, and become invested in the future.
- Not sure how much of this is going to be level based. Will a smithy still be good at level 10, 20, 30, 40, 50? Where is the cutoff? Will it take 2 days to build a smithy but then it only builds level 10-20 gear which in 2 days you level out of anyways so that you only use the item made for marginal increase for 1 day? This system needs to be fine tuned by the devs to make sense and be worth the effort.
- Once we get to 50, how much of the game will be still gearing up at nodes? If people rush to 50 can they effectively bypass these systems? Is there any point for a level 50 to be a citizen of a level 3 or 4 node? Eventually the game will have alot of 50s kicking around. Monster exp/difficulty needs to be fine tuned with item availability and node progress.
What are your thoughts about the visual fidelity of what was shown with the Village Node Update?
It was fine except for the lighting. The darks were way to dark and the lights were too light. Honestly though, the concern over graphics and assets are going to delay the game way too much, and people will still complain that it doesn't look the way "they want". Forget about that garbage and just make a good game. I spent many years playing MUDs and it was all about the game play and player interaction. That is what keeps people playing. Minecraft is one of the most popular games of all time, keep that in mind.
"I know what the audience are thinking... I could inform via some type of insider trading so that people have time to bring those resources in advance and purchase out all the buy orders"
Answer: "The mayor does have some power to give people warning but also pull the rug from underneath those people too"
The only people with the rug pulled from underneath them will be those not in the mayor's guild.
I'm sorry, what kind of an answer to a very valid problem is this? Your answer is "Well, yeah." There is absolutely no system in place to stop the mayor from telling his guild what will be required and for the members of that guild to receive all the "node currency". This is yet another stream to highlight how naive and neglectful you are with regard to the exploitability of these systems. The tax system will instantly go the harshest it can be, that's just how it goes in MMOs. You cannot rely on the morality of the player, especially an MMO player, with a system at their disposal they can abuse, to not do it for their gain - to the absolute maximum possible. I get the realism you're going for but I repeat, this is not real life: I can just log off and go have some fun somewhere where I'm not being milked by 19-hour-a-day players.
If you chose to cater towards established guilds who already have their LAN space pre-planned and work informed of a possible 1month vacation they'll need in the future, then please just say so so the more casual players than them (I.e. 90%) can move onto following something else.
The World looks as great as ever bar not having any defining theme: it just looks good but so do most of the other games these days and to this day, some that don't, are more fun than the top-of-the-top graphical masterpieces we get. The shields look 2D, and the armor is bland and boring - unless this is low-level armor which still, in 2023, is just so so basic.
People saying stuff like "but look at the wind and the grass" for the millionth time - who cares, honestly?
Gameplay is king.
Gear progression is king.
Power progression is king.
If you nail the feeling of those, the feeling of accomplishment that rewards the player with a noticeable power boost, you'll have a winning MMO. The only things of that nature so far are gated behind huge guilds that will monopolize control over systems like freeholds, nodes, and node currency.
So far, the combat looks like a particle effect mess, generally not very exciting if I'm honest. The spell effects look out of place, the particle effects around things like the blue rock being mined are way over the top and completely unnecessary, and the blue glitter going up in the air: seriously?
The sense of scale seems very good, and on-point in fact, so being in town feels like being in town which is fantastic. That's the positives.
If you're a guild I'm sure you found this update amazing. If you're not in one, this post is a reality check for you as it was for me.
If you're a guild I'm sure you found this update amazing. If you're not in one, this post is a reality check for you as it was for me.
So, in essence, you are upset that you won't be getting far when you play alone in an MMO?
I'm sorry you didn't understand what I was trying to convey. Let me explain. I'm "upset" that I won't get anywhere with some of the "major" systems in this game unless I'm in a top-end guild that requires me to send them my CV and uit my job. I'm "upset" that the systems are naive and based on the goodwill of players (good luck with that) wanting to include players from outside. Hope this helps.
How do you feel about the Village Node Update so far?
Overall I feel confident about the Village Node Update. I enjoyed seeing a node on a topographically interesting surface. I was a bit disappointed in the showcase overall because I was expecting a bit more, but these expectations were my own so no fault to the team. I was hoping to see the effects of race on nodes, and was expecting to see a node changing up from a village node to a town or even (unlikely) a city. As well as a bit more of a breakdown on the specializations each node type offers.
What excites you about playing and interacting with the Node system?
I am most excited about the interaction of buy orders and rare gatherable. As some one who wants to be a (grand)master gatherable, seeing a posting across the land where a city needs a specific rare gatherable, the excitement/danger of bringing it all the way over there (and not dying) to provide a service (gatherable) that no one else was able to fulfil seems like a wonderful reason to play into specific specializations to make yourself even more renown.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Village Node Update?
I think the biggest concern that came to mind during the update was node currency. I know there was not a lot said about it so my concerns may be for not. But it sounds like you can gain node currency at one node, and then if your node is destroyed you get the refugee status. Once you become a citizen of this other node you have access to your node currency, if you are coming from a Level 6 Metropolis and your new node is only a level 3 will you have so much node currency you can buy everything out, or will your reputation at this new node be so low that all your node currency is useless because the only available items to you are not of importance to you.
What are your thoughts about the visual fidelity of what was shown with the Village Node Update?
As a pre-alpha update it looks great, I know the team will fix the obvious things like leaves glitching in and out of view because the wind is blowing them in and out of the detailed field of view range; the grass clipping through the capes. Overall I am happy with the visual direction the team is going with, I'm excited to see how the nodes change depending on the race of influence, and the biome of the node.
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AliceMember, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited September 2023
Not nodes-related. Just ranting for the last time until A2. Feel free to delete this if inappropriate. So a combat designer is focusing his attention on something that isn't the combat. I don't know if this is a good idea, just saying. Isn't a jack of all trades, normally is a master of none?
Steven said "the combat is not going to be as fast-paced as action MMOs". Brother, it doesn't need to be BDO-like, just don't make it very slow, floaty and static. Is this really the fantasy world you dream to live in? Does any of you even watch anime?
I get that it is still alpha, but it worries me when the devs pat each other on the back and talk so proudly about it. it makes me question "is this the final direction you decided on, and will waste more resources on it?".
Even if the pacing was faster and fluid, the class designs & the skills are too tame and generic, nothing crazy or original. An example for "crazy" is like a non-combat (or not) skill for a mage to freeze a river and cross over it with allies; or slow down a ship by blocking its path, slow% based on ship size; or creates icy staircase or a path mid-air during cold weather by freezing air molecules. Sounds fun?
Since skill points are limited, ideas like this could be implemented within existing skills. Like by holding Cone of Cold near a body of water, it registers it and freezes it, does no damage and has its own cooldown.
Perhaps Ranger can manipulate the wind, and by holding a wind skill, it allows him to fly until he runs out of stamina. Cooldown starts counting when it's over. What's the weakness? None. Just CC him and it's wasted.
Because you think of Ashes of Creation as a game, you limit your imagination by thinking about balance and risk-reward mechanics (as seen with Cleric) and forget that it's a fantasy world where anything can happen!
IMO, if the combat is bad, the game is bad. No matter how perfect the nodes system and everything else is.
Thank you for reading. Peace.
Hi, I have a lot of thoughts about the other parts of the update, but I wanted to comment on this in particular:
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Village Node Update? - What are the team's thoughts on a mayor potentially creating a discord and inviting all of the citizens of their node via message of the day to it. Using sites like strawpoll to poll policies? There's a lot of outside applications that could be used to interact with systems, and imo, that's okay, but I wonder what the team has in mind regarding these.
Will the game have any sort of discord integration in it?
there needs to be a delay between changing buy order prices otherwisde you will get mayors change the payout to max then hand in then change it back to cheap again or a cooldown betwen changing it
I sincerely hope that "vendors selling gear gated behind reputation for non-exchangeable currency" will have some thought, finesse, and nuance. WoW and other MMOs turned this concept into the most boring but compulsory grind and called it "content" and even "innovation".
A citizen benefit I'd like to see is some level of protection by or ability to pay to recruit NPC soldiers to accompany not only caravans, but also world events, patrol specified routes, or guard places such as mines/farms/freeholds. This may help balance the playing field between those who have a large social following/roving zergs and small-group/solo grinder players. Especially if Nodes themselves could use the guards in defensive sieges (not just the mayor, but also citizens hiring their own with node currency).
Another option is for the guard(s) to follow you as a player for X minutes after hire in town, or when blowing a trumpet item with long cooldown. Their level/gear determined by Node infrastructure and building upgrades.
Follower guards could be tuned to do less PvE damage and not generate aggro if we don't want them unbalancing PvE. Corruption should also limit recruitment in some way, unless you are a member of an evil node (unsure if such a type is planned).
As part of how the Mayor could interact with Citizens on getting feedback in regards to policies or other Mayoral functions, polls were mentioned and were said to not being considered at this time.
I disagree with this sentiment, as the purpose of the poll is specifically to get that feedback from Citizens. The two ways presented in the stream for Mayors to interact with Citizens for feedback was through a Citizen only chat, and through a Message of the Day (MotD) for the Node. The problem with this is that a MotD is not meant to receive feedback, it is to put a notice out and not receive information from players. A chat for Citizens only is great, however it would only capture input from players that are online at the same time as the Mayor. For example, if a Mayor is primarily online for the same 4 hour window when they play during a day, they will not interact with players that primarily play in the other 20 hour window.
A poll would be a much better way for Mayors to gain feedback from all Citizens, regardless of when they are online. It will also show other Citizens what their fellows think about certain policies or mandates, so if the majority of other Citizens at a Node are set on a different play style than what you want, you can make a more informed decision on where to give your Citizenship to.
I sincerely hope that "vendors selling gear gated behind reputation for non-exchangeable currency" will have some thought, finesse, and nuance. WoW and other MMOs turned this concept into the most boring but compulsory grind and called it "content" and even "innovation".
What do you mean by "non-exchangeable" currency?
One that you cannot use to trade with another player. Currency that only the reputation vendor accepts, and has no other use.
I didn't liked the guard Steven met on the road. Unrealistically thin. I would expect a more muscular character. https://youtu.be/bJwLHPGPH5s?t=850
Later in the village I've not seen fat or ugly npcs. There should be such NPCs too.
Friendly players when they meet, in form of salute they jump in front of each-other. Very disappointed to see this tradition not being followed. https://youtu.be/bJwLHPGPH5s?t=923
That NPC carrying a crate... he can see through the crate? Also the crate seems really light because the guy doesn't seem to put any real effort. Better provide wheelbarrows and carts to them. https://youtu.be/bJwLHPGPH5s?t=1116
The same NPC turning 180° later. These NPCs should look like doing a meaningful job. https://youtu.be/bJwLHPGPH5s?t=1348
I know is the very early stage and these will be improved later.
That NPC should turn his head toward the player's character instead of staring forward. Also should move a bit, move his arms into different positions, scratch his head etc. The guard was doing that while walking... https://youtu.be/bJwLHPGPH5s?t=1905
Street light should be turned on only during night. An NPC should do that.
I have not noticed any birds flying in the air. Birds should also land in trees. And now that I think about such npc to tree interaction, maybe you could add squirrels, monkeys and other creatures which can move on both land and climb trees too.
General direction regarding the environment seems ok.
Once I arrive into alpha 2 and look closer I might change my mind and request changes. Be prepared.
Regarding Mandates, Commissions and Policies I have no opinion right now.
I cannot yet feel enthusiasm to go and fulfill mayor triggered quests unless is part of my guild leadership. What if most players decide to go into the deep sea? Can a mayor on a coastal node create commissions and send players into the deep sea? Or going there and doing stuff, do I generate mandates?
I am sometime thinking that I would like to go into a node which has no mayors, or in places outside the zone influence of a node, if such places exist. And stay there. Call it a neutral place for players who do not want constantly feel the pressure to get involved into politics neither as mayors nor as their supporters. A place for players without citizenship but which can still offer game-play. The more I think about the node and caravan system, the more I feel like Steven's prisoner, forced to play as he wants.
The node currency is interesting. So now we have gold, node currency and hunting certificates?
Gonna go light on the systems feedback today. Everything seems to be progressing nicely. And it's honestly too complex and dependent on community behavior to critique anything properly before Alpha 2. The direction seems good though. Seems like a lot of community involvement that is rewarding to the node and player at the same time.
I especially like the ideas for military node elections. I just wonder if it's possible to make some of those PvP events happen in the actual node, rather than in an instanced copy. Would be cool to see different factions running about, making their "political" moves in real-time, even if I'm not currently participating.
I am a little concerned about the insider trading thing with Buy Orders, where the mayor tells his guild/buddies before a lucrative, short-term Buy Order is created. But it's definitely something that's needs to be tested before I write it off. At worst, I assume it's just one more thing on the list of political nuances, rather than an exploitable broken mechanic. We'll see.
Visually I think the nodes look vastly improved. Love the little banners moving in the winds and the NPCs going about their day. Although I do hope those muddy roads can be upgraded, maybe with a node policy focused on infrastructure. My only nitpick is that it's hard to see things under an awning because the shadows are so dark. But maybe that's just my screen, and it can be easily solved with a gamma slider.
Overall, pretty happy with the update. Before watching, I was spoiled a little by a reddit thread that was rather critical of the lack of progress (not enough shown in-engine), so I was expecting disappointment. But after watching the VOD I think there just wasn't enough time to show everything. I do wish we had seen a couple more core features in action, like the mayoral commissions or the policy "cards" that were mentioned. As well as a few more node layouts/designs. Obviously there's not time for that in the "Steven slowly walks through it in-person" video. But some screenshots or a flyover in-engine would have been appreciated. (Or would still be appreciated if they end up on social media *wink*)
OK, so... this is not really my kind of tea in MMOs, but like most, I will participate in these as necessary for my character/guild goals and progress.
First of all, you should consider players like that and not force these very heavy systems on them too much and too often. (You can ofc use passive methods such as putting a massive reward system behind these and because the rewards will be so good people would be forced to participate in the end. I'm mentioning this particular example to really put a hard resonance on the word "force" for you, because this is, in reality, the only thing you need to understand to avoid the same disaster where many of your predecessors failed as well.) So let's sum up this history a bit, not really to compare, but to hopefully avoid the same results, so please take this only as a view of someone who essentially doesn't like these "mass goal" systems. I do realize I might like them when done 'correctly', but listen first.
The first that came into my mind when I saw your video (love hour-long gameplay btw) was the World of Warcraft "garrison", "invasions", "war efforts" and "island expeditions" systems, basically all combined together, plus a heavy load of layers of everything on top of all that.
Unfortunately, I can tell you right now, that none of these systems were truly appreciated within the player base. Not many, in fact, liked these systems in general, just participating as a necessity to evolve the story, or just for the weekly reward for HC and semi-hc players.
I'm not saying you are heading the same way, but you kind of are... from what I saw, I can tell this is like Dungeon's and Dragon's ruleset, which is the same as this very complex and very hard to understand at first glance. This really is not a good thing for a video game, especially for a game where this is just one part of the "big picture" and you should, in my opinion, definitely "soften" these systems by a ton. Nobody likes to learn that much new stuff when really doesn't want to.
secondly, you put a 'government' system on top of all these which essentially is not a bad thing, but why the f*k are you choosing to use a 'representative democracy' system? Isn't it enough clear already, that this ain't working in reality anymore as well? Why not a direct democracy? Why not let everyone (who wants) decide which way the node will be evolving? This is a huge mistake in my opinion and there will be regrets.
thirdly, the currency system on top of another currency system on top of another... meh, this ain't good guys, I mean I'm sure there won't be any microtransactions to connect the 'dots' between all these currency systems that will make this game pay to win in the end, but if this ain't your intentions, FFS please simplify this. The less is more, nobody will be mad to pay for stuff in just simple golds trust me, we don't really need or want "special node purple gold" or anything like that.
fourthly, taxes? Seriously you enjoy paying your taxes that much so you put them inside your fantasy world as well? I mean no offense, but from all you can inspire yourself from our reality, this is it? really? Is that what we really need in the game... or in general after all?
I do appreciate all the work behind this, as a programmer myself I really do, but this ain't the right way in my opinion, I know this might sound harsh, but it's from my gamer heart, I give you feedback every time you ask for it, but this time I'd seriously consider scratching this elected government idea completely, same as the taxes idea. Nobody really likes it, nobody needs it. I'd give 'power to the people', make just a few currencies, divided for only necessary reasons, but most should be available for just the simplest one.
If this is not an option anymore, and you have totally decided to go with all this, at least consider implementing some "revolt" systems as well...
this is sadly the first of my feedback that is mostly negative, but don't take it wrong. I mean no harm, I wish you success, I just don't think this will work as you intend to. You can try to prove me wrong, but we all live on this very Earth together, and we all know that governments mean no good to the people. They never do and they never will and they are not even needed.
Hopefully, you got the message. Best of luck to you guys.
OK, so... this is not really my kind of tea in MMOs, but like most, I will participate in these as necessary for my character/guild goals and progress.
First of all, you should consider players like that and not force these very heavy systems on them too much and too often. (You can ofc use passive methods such as putting a massive reward system behind these and because the rewards will be so good people would be forced to participate in the end. I'm mentioning this particular example to really put a hard resonance on the word "force" for you, because this is, in reality, the only thing you need to understand to avoid the same disaster where many of your predecessors failed as well.) So let's sum up this history a bit, not really to compare, but to hopefully avoid the same results, so please take this only as a view of someone who essentially doesn't like these "mass goal" systems. I do realize I might like them when done 'correctly', but listen first.
The first that came into my mind when I saw your video (love hour-long gameplay btw) was the World of Warcraft "garrison", "invasions", "war efforts" and "island expeditions" systems, basically all combined together, plus a heavy load of layers of everything on top of all that.
Unfortunately, I can tell you right now, that none of these systems were truly appreciated within the player base. Not many, in fact, liked these systems in general, just participating as a necessity to evolve the story, or just for the weekly reward for HC and semi-hc players.
I'm not saying you are heading the same way, but you kind of are... from what I saw, I can tell this is like Dungeon's and Dragon's ruleset, which is the same as this very complex and very hard to understand at first glance. This really is not a good thing for a video game, especially for a game where this is just one part of the "big picture" and you should, in my opinion, definitely "soften" these systems by a ton. Nobody likes to learn that much new stuff when really doesn't want to.
secondly, you put a 'government' system on top of all these which essentially is not a bad thing, but why the f*k are you choosing to use a 'representative democracy' system? Isn't it enough clear already, that this ain't working in reality anymore as well? Why not a direct democracy? Why not let everyone (who wants) decide which way the node will be evolving? This is a huge mistake in my opinion and there will be regrets.
thirdly, the currency system on top of another currency system on top of another... meh, this ain't good guys, I mean I'm sure there won't be any microtransactions to connect the 'dots' between all these currency systems that will make this game pay to win in the end, but if this ain't your intentions, FFS please simplify this. The less is more, nobody will be mad to pay for stuff in just simple golds trust me, we don't really need or want "special node purple gold" or anything like that.
fourthly, taxes? Seriously you enjoy paying your taxes that much so you put them inside your fantasy world as well? I mean no offense, but from all you can inspire yourself from our reality, this is it? really? Is that what we really need in the game... or in general after all?
I do appreciate all the work behind this, as a programmer myself I really do, but this ain't the right way in my opinion, I know this might sound harsh, but it's from my gamer heart, I give you feedback every time you ask for it, but this time I'd seriously consider scratching this elected government idea completely, same as the taxes idea. Nobody really likes it, nobody needs it. I'd give 'power to the people', make just a few currencies, divided for only necessary reasons, but most should be available for just the simplest one.
If this is not an option anymore, and you have totally decided to go with all this, at least consider implementing some "revolt" systems as well...
this is sadly the first of my feedback that is mostly negative, but don't take it wrong. I mean no harm, I wish you success, I just don't think this will work as you intend to. You can try to prove me wrong, but we all live on this very Earth together, and we all know that governments mean no good to the people. They never do and they never will and they are not even needed.
Hopefully, you got the message. Best of luck to you guys.
You didn't understand the video at all, nor what aoc wants to be. That's not feedback, that's just wrong. I guess wow suits you better
You didn't understand the video at all, nor what aoc wants to be. That's not feedback, that's just wrong. I guess wow suits you better
Is this a criticism of my criticism of the game? Dude, are you serious now? This ain't a debate. This is in fact just a feedback that I'm willingly giving them for free without expecting anything back.
I'm not trying to imply what this project is trying to be, I'm not even trying to compare it to another. This is just what I feel from what I see, you can disagree, but how dare you judge me like this? Shame on you.
Good gameplay video.
It's going a long way when the Devs describe the mechanics whilst showing how it looks ingame.
The:
UI
Material icons, looks and size in the crafting interface, distinct and tasty
Raw materials in the world
The "buy" sound feedback and responsiveness timeframe when you right click the items in the vendor
The purple colour hue of the bloodsword in the crafting interface
The environment the buildings the npcs
Everything is great
This is the Dev Update everyone was waiting for. We have arrived.
How do you feel about the Village Node Update so far?
- Can you place buildings freely (on given spots) to construct a specific crafting district, or is there a predetermined order and you have to plan carefully?
What excites you about playing and interacting with the Node system?
Participating players get a reward when they build a house( node currency)
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Village Node Update?
why did he mention to build 3 smithy to capitalise of it -does a player prevent others from using this building and can it be deliberately blocked?
- can you place multiple buildings at a time if you have enough resources? Because otherwise when those citizens don't want a particular building it forces them to because of those 2 Million years
- what can they buy from this node currency and is it tied to a specific node or a global currency? maybe you can pay your tax with it from your freehold
- how often can you change your freehold tax? is there a timer to prevent someone to lure with low tax and set them to max limit a day later?
- Can a mayor demolish houses that have been built and have materials returned to the guild treasury?
- Does a mayor have full access to the city treasury and are there internal histories of the guild treasury that all members can see?
- can a mayor offer goods via an node NPC for trade?
What are your thoughts about the visual fidelity of what was shown with the Village Node Update?
Can you change a building's design later, or is it dependent on the mayor's race? did you assign a specific theme to a specific node?
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Village Node Update?
i know that it was probably due to steven having a dev debug enviroment but i hope that mayors are blocked from contributing the voluntary non buy order citizen portion of a buildings material cost as that would defeat the purpose of being able to stop a mayor building what he wants.
if it does allow a mayor to contribute and not due to a dev client than mayors can do what they want as long as they got the resources. just collect it themselves / get fed resources and then insta build it.
Suggestion: it wasnt in the video so assuming its not a feature but i feel like once the mayor selects a building and hits build it should initiate a citizen vote for 24 hours and after 24 hours the highest % wins if it hasnt hit majority or end vote short if a majority vote of 51% is reached and if it passes then the building can have the resources donated to it and be completed. this would make less corrupt mayors and then also they would be paying attention to their citizens more.
What are your thoughts about the visual fidelity of what was shown with the Village Node Update?
Can you change a building's design later, or is it dependent on the mayor's race? did you assign a specific theme to a specific node?
if it hasnt changed and its the same then the Race that contributed the highest percentage to the node's advancement will alter the racial appearance of its buildings, NPCs, and props. <- according to the wiki
I’m incredibly sick this week, so the length and complexity of the stream was a welcome distraction.
Overall, the format of the stream was excellent. The node system requires the extra time to steep - so props on your approach to lay groundwork with the PowerPoint first then move into showing the concepts in a tangible form. One last general thought, I don’t think it’s necessary to overly polish the presentations for us. I like the back and forth clarifying assumptions and understanding of the node vernacular (policies v. mandates v. commissions) as it shows this is still a very much organic system within Intrepid.
* How do you feel about the Village Node Update so far?
It’s complex, which is good. It needs to be. I can sense the blend between Settlers of Catan, Civilization, and good city builders here. Clearly there’s enough branching complexity to scale for metro to metro interaction.
My only suggestion would be to scale the UX to manage the node with the node’s growth. The UI and options need to grow and guide not overwhelm. I’d also plan to have contextual tips, monitoring, and alerts configurable by the mayor to help with resource management and quick decision making. I noted in one of the forums that being a mayor, particularly for larger nodes, is going to be an unpaid director level role. Might not be a bad idea to provide mayors with some sort of optional external alert system during their time in office, along with some type of proxy/delegate authority.
* What excites you about playing and interacting with the Node system?
I have two minds on this. First, as an explorer I didn’t plan on joining a node for some time. This still might be the case, but the two changes that may shift my thinking is the addition of inns to meet the housing requirement and multi-node citizenship.
Once I choose a node, I’m glad that there’s a meaningful system to convert gathered resources into a node currency that has relative value within settled nodes beyond just x amount of gold.
The construction of the smithy was cool. I was hoping to see a tangible example of a node moving from one level to another. Seems like something that could be time-lapsed to show 1) the growth of the village itself, and 2) the impact of the node’s growth on the ZOI. I’m just guessing it will be in a later show case or we’ll see it first hand in A2
* Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Village Node Update?
I mentioned scaling the UX above, I think that’s going to be important to successfully manage a node.
You (Intrepid) are already thinking through how a good and bad faith actor can operate a node - and I’m glad to hear that. Being the linchpin system of Ashes, I would find a few ways to break each new feature added. This is something I’m looking forward to pressure testing in A2.
* What are your thoughts about the visual fidelity of what was shown with the Village Node Update?
There are a lot of notes from other folks about lighting… Honestly, I know nothing has been optimized or polished yet, so I sort of ignored that level of detail.
I do want to give a high five to the architectural design team. The peaked roofs of the Kaelar buildings create a great effect of an urban space when those buildings are next to each other. The main roads and centers feel like a protected settled space instead of just a jumbled bunch of buildings. There’s a sense that the node is ‘working’ with the NPC and object density. This had some beginning vibes of RDR2, and I hope that’s a direction the design team continues to move toward.
All in all, solid presentation. It left me pleased with what was shown, and wanting to see more. Well done.
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akabearMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
There are an underwhelming number of comments here for such an important element.
It was a great presentation, with great content showing tremendous promise, and there can only be improvement towards something great! Well done.
Comments
I guess I agree with most thing you said in the first half of the post.
I just disagree on the 2nd. I really, really like the lighting and the visuals.
Overall, I honestly don't know what to say. I'd have to re-watch everything, and then think about it for a bit.
I like how everything looks, I like the system on a surface level, because there's a lot of depth to it.
I again get the feeling that most of this is just locked for the vast majority of the playerbase, and is only there for the select few. It seems only a small minority of people will actually have access and interact with certain systems, and that they will simply have more things to do in game. I'm not saying that will be the case, but that's what we're being shown at the moment.
It's easy to expect large guild leaders, streamers/youtubers to easily control most, if not all nodes on the server, because apparently just having enough people on your side will be enough in most cases to get elected. Previously, I'd say players had a chance for at least 1 or 2 of the node types, but now it seems that that's gone as well, and instead we get the: bigger number equals better, a popularity contest of sorts.
Now I'm not saying that them having access to it is an inherently a bad thing, but there's a ton of stuff like that in the game already, that will only be accessible to them, or that's what we're being shown.
I didn't really see much about what a regular player's experience might look like, other than being there to serve the big guys and be another NPC for them. Again, that might not be the intent (I wouldn't be surprised if it is), but that's what we're being shown constantly in these streams.
Overall, it was definitely one of the best streams so far. I don't have the time to rewatch and think about everything, so I guess my feedback wont be really detailed or focused on the stream itself, but rather an overall picture. Everything we're being shown is from a perspective of a player who is a mayor, who is a freehold owner, etc. - but the vast majority of players won't be that.
I think it is important to show these systems from that perspective as well, but it's just as important to show it from a perspective of a regular player and how they might interact with the system, and what they can expect to get out from it.
i feel there more incentive to go through and actually destroy the node instead of just leveling it, cities in darkfall didnt mean much after you had one outside of an extra mine. in ashes though destroying a node allows other nodes to progress and move the world forward, they also said it quite costly too from what they said to declare a node war so i feel you would wanna follow through with it but we shal see where things go
Am a little concerned with the new Military Node Election. Feels like it'll just be another Scientific "popularity vote", with some candidates having maybe 3 backers, and another having 300. The previous mechanic seemed like a more fair method, and feels more worth testing before removal/replacement.
Edit: Oh, I also liked seeing the armour/cosmetic sets at the end. More of that each time, please!
1)PPT presentation: very nice, i like the fact that it was done live and chat could ask a few questions, the best way to present new systems. I would even say a (short) ppt presentation could work when presenting classes, talking a little bit about the class role and augments (when augments become part of the presentation)
2) 1st Slide - Citizenship: a few questions here:
- How often are the citizenship fees? And is it an automated process that strips players of their citizenship if they miss even 1 fee? (i am thinking holidays etc when people can't join for a significant period)
- Regarding freeholds and Refugee: as far as I know, a player can defend their freehold even if the node is destroyed and keep it. I assume when the timer to destroy the freehold is up, the freehold goes under the ZOI of another node in the area and the player get citizenship in that node (as they own housing, the freehold, in that nodes ZOI) . Can the player that owns the freehold pick which node the freehold goes under or is it random? (My 2 cents: let the player pick which node gets the Freehold. It need to be one that is close, but considering how much of an investment freeholds are, the player should have some say in this case)
3) 2nd Slide - Mayorship:
-regarding Military nodes: There was mention that during the FFA fight for mayorship, other players come assist the mayoral candidate in the fight. While i like this better than the whole Champion thing, having the players fight themselves, i don't think that others should be able to help them, or at most a maximum of the smallest group size. I get why you guys went with this, classes aren't balanced in 1v1 fights, but at the same time, having other join to assist, it kinda becomes the same thing as a Scientific node (popular vote), as the most popular candidate will have the most players that help them. Guilds will already have an advantage in Scientific and Economic nodes (more ppl means more votes/money), but Military should be more skill based. I say cap the maximum number of assists to 8 (or even lower tbh).
-Economic: does the bid for the mayorship go into the treasury after the election?
-Divine: does the favour after an election get reset for all players or just the major?
-Regarding repeat wins in the election: this one is kinda interesting. Scientific nodes can totally have the same mayor over and over again if they are voted, all they need to do is not suck. Military nodes can also have the same mayor over and over, assuming they win. Economic and Divine, based on how I understand it, not so much. Because the mayor will have to spend time to get either gold or favor in the month when they are mayor to get elected again, meaning that either they spend time doing that and not really work on the node or they work on the node and have no chance to get elected again. Divine and Economic seem to have the highest time investment to actually become mayors. This will, long term, mean that those nodes won't be as well managed as Military or Scientific. Testing needs to happen, but I would say that those 2 types need some way for Mayors to gain favor/gold while they are mayors so they can compete for repeat elections. Not enough to for sure win again, but enough so they can compete with the players that have a full month to gather favor/gold. Otherwise, Economic and Divine nodes will be 2nd class nodes for players and all will go to either a Scientific or a Military one.
-How is the node type selected? Is it defined at the start and all servers will have the same node types in the same space (for example Winsted (i think it was named, the one in the video), that is scientific node in the Riverlands. Will all servers have the option to get a Scientific node in the Riverlands called Winstead in that exact place?).
-Can node type change on node lvl up? So if a lvl 3 Economic node spends most of its time doing combat with other cities (or whatever else), when they get to a lvl 4 node, they become a Military one? (i know this is probably really hard to do, but damn if it isn't cool)
4) 3rd Slide - Mandates:
-Really cool idea, however the number and power of mandates should be determined by the Node type. A Scientific node mayor should have really limited mandates, while a Divine or Military one should have more mandates and stronger mandates. Also, an Economic node mayor should be able to buy mandates from the people (legit make it a shop, where players can go and get gold for mandates, goes hand in hand with the intent of an Economic node, letting the mayor buy votes)
5) 4th slide - Mayoral Commissions:
-There needs to be more info regarding the nodes currency, as far as i understood, these are bound currency that can only be used in a node. But are they also node specific or node type specific or can they be used in any node?
6) 5th Slide - Policies:
-not much to say here, we need some examples as to what they can do
7) 6th & 7th Slide - Service Buildings:
-here, i really like this idea. However, based on what was said later, that a node needs 3 blacksmiths each for slashing weapons, piercing weapons and bludgeoning weapons... this seems cool on paper, however, considering how many professions there are, it will be a massive pain.
A lvl 3 node had 4 slots to build buildings ( as we saw in the video). Assuming they double each level, that is 8 slots for lvl 4 and 16 slots for level 5. There are right now 8 crafting professions and 9 processing professions. Which means that a metropolis cannot have 1 of each for both crafting and processing even if they want to. (i know, top tier processing is done in freeholds, but some level is also done in nodes).
But lets only talk about crafting. So 8 crafting professions. Assuming all have the same path as weapon smiting, 3 each, that is 24. Also, you need to build passive buildings that buff the buildings. So to have a node dedicated to weapon smiting, you need 3 blacksmiths + probably another building for each to buff it, so that is 6.
That is flat out, not enough slots. Not all professions are the same. Weapon and armour smiting are more valuable than scribing for example, so there will be whole areas of the map that just do not have a top tier scribing area. There will be servers without scribing anywhere, as weapon, armour and jewels will trump them.
Testing needs to be done, but there needs to be more plots to build stuff. I just looked in the video, and based on the UI Steven has open (1:47:15 in the livestream, i can count 7 possible buildings to be build, and the scroll is halfway up, so a potential of 14 buildings at lvl 3 node. There needs to be more spots or a big chunk of professions wont have a slot anywhere.
I get the idea that no one node can do anything, but right now it seems that each node can only 1 thing. and for big cities, that dosent really make sense.
8) 8th Slide - Buy Orders:
-real good system, be sure you allow players to put buy orders as well in a trade house or something, I know this was a topic in guilds discussion i think awhile back, but the idea that i go out and collect resources for a player to do something with (rather that collect it and throw it into the void that is a NPCs pack) is real nice, especially when it comes to sieges, as those that build defenses can put up buy orders and players can see during the fight where their resources went to
9) Video - 1:17:44
-I don't really like the fact that a mayor can set up a buy order from anywhere, it should only be possible in the town hall
10) Video - 1:19:23
-The idea that you can make the same industrial resource with different ingredients based on the location of the node is really cool, however, I would propose having 2 ingredients parameters, as to make it worth it for players in different biomes to travel to your node. For example, Steven picks ingredients that are around the node, but I assume the same rocks wont be in a desert, making it not worth it for players in a desert node to travel to your node, as they need to come here and start mining for the specific ingredients you picked. So, when putting up the buy order for Bins of Stone, have 2 tabs for ingredients, and the mayor can make one tab with local ingredients and one tab with not-local ingredients, making it worth for players to make the trip, bringing their resources with them. As it is now, there is no reason to start a caravan from the desert that brings the blue stone, as players there don't have blue stone.
11) Video - 1:20:01
-Node currency needs to be explained:)) how does a node make node currency, is there a limit, if node currency can be used in any node, can 1 node cause inflation server-wise bc they spam buy orders, etc etc
12)Video - 1:21:02
- "The more you pay, the more it will cost the node treasury" - and here i am, confused yet again, regarding node currency.... so it is related to the gold a node has, but it isn't gold? Please explain it:)))
13) Video - 1:21:33
-Duration - What is the detriment for putting max duration on any buy order? Considering there is a limit on how much you wanna buy (the quantity tab), the order is gonna finish, when that quantity is achieved. I don't see what it adds by having a duration, if the node needs something, they are gonna keep needing it until the buy order is complete.
14) Video - 1:21:40
-"Regardless if the players finish it, you've payed for it". No. Sorry, but that is a bad choice. The city dosent just delete the money they haven't used if a buy order isn't complete on time. On the contrary, the money from the treasury should only be removed when a player gets the materials to the node. You've made it like a normal trade house system, which dosen't make sense, as this is the city that is buying stuff, not a player that uses a trade house. The node owns the trade house. Please change this, makes no sense to waste money if a buy order isn't completed.
15) Video - 1:22:30
-Insider Trading: should definitely be a thing, however, it should be somewhat obvious that it has happened. For example, have the node made an announcement "NEW BUY ORDER" and then 2 min later "BUY ORDER COMPLETED". This way, the players of the node know that their lovely mayor is doing some shifty stuff. The announcement shouldn't be overtly obvious, maybe just a message in chat or maybe even just a ledger that people can check. So it isnt completely hidden with no way to cause drama (drama is the best part about MMOs)
16) Video - 1:24:13
Damn the world looks nice
17) Video - 1:25:13
-What is the benefit for a node to pick materials that aren't local to its area? Bins of Stone for example, why would I as a mayor pick materials that arent close to the node and thus making it less likely that the buy order completes and making it a longer timeframe from the buy order to be completed?
18)Video - 1:25:23
-"They might not even have access to certain buy order for commodities that are local to them" .....why? What sense does that make? If the meaning here is that certain biomes have unique materials that can only be found in a specific biome, that makes sense, but it isnt what was said. It sounds like at some point nodes will no longer be able to use the resources local to them, which makes 0 sense. They say that "higher tier commodities would be further away" but that still makes no sense. It should be "unique commodities are further away" not higher tier commodities
19) Video - 1:25:42
-"Will players around the world have an opportunity to inspect the types of buy order that are currently listed at a particular node? Yea they will be able to" ......NOOOOOOOO! Whyyyy.... this is...noo...so the whole idea that a player on the East continent dosen't know what is going on the West continent unless they go there is dead. Don't make it like this, at least limit it around where the player is, a few nodes around them.
20) Video - 1:26:26
Guards patrolling the area. Real nice, however how will they interact with players hunting mobs or caravans that are attacked, will they come to defend caravans? (also, there should be groups of 3 guards, solo guards look weird)
21) Video - 1:28:46
Caravansary is outside the walls? Not sure that is safe tbh
22) Video - 1:29:41
Is that a freehold? Isn't it really close to the city? I mean, As it levels up, i kinda expended the node to get big enough engulf that plot of land inside the walls?
23) Video - 1:31:27
Potion of invisibility - I assume Steven could see James bc of GM hacks, but will a potion like this allow you to sneak into a city? Maybe one you are at war with and cause mayhem? And what could a city do to prevent that? Otherwise, node wars will descend into invisible raids over and over again.
24) Video - 1:31:41
The node looks amazing, feels lived in, natural, 10/10 would live there
25) Video - 1:32:53
The wanted poster is cool, maybe have these posters put up for corrupted players?
26) Video - 1:35:31
Regarding node level up, they mention that small construction will take place, but is node level up still a "snap your fingers and its done" thing? Or will it take time. And if does take time, is a node more vulnerable during this phase? Walls being build etc
27) Video - 1:37:48
It's a small thing, but will NPCs address the mayor as "Mayor"?
28) Video - 1:39:16
I love that Steven fails at NPC interactions, not just combat. Keep it up Steven, one of these days you'll get it
29) Video - 1:42:53
Buying from an NPC. So taxes are 75%... so 75% of what an NPC "makes" goes to the treasury? Its a NPC, why isn't it 100% and the taxes increase the price? Or how does it work?
30) Video - 1:47:00
Buildings can be upgraded. While a building is upgraded, assuming it takes time, is that building usable while the upgrading is taking place?
31) Video - 1:49:47
If players dont contribute to a building, it wont be build. I think this needs testing, i can totally see nodes that don't progress because of lazy players
32) Video - 1:52:00
real nice construction animation
33) Video - 1:56:40
He was lucky guards, weren't around, as he violated the law of the land
34) Video - 1:58:58
We need a crafting livestream
35) Video - 2:03:58
The node really looks fantastic, great job!
And that's it from me.
Choosing a node to be a citizen of which best suits me. Taking into account the city culture, where majority of my guild is located, buildings, policies present in the node, the biome etc. Also working together with other people to create a node we would like to live in.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Village Node Update?
I expected the systems and tech art to be further along, but that was under the assumption that some of what was shown before UE5 would be used in the showcase.
I'm excited about the number of systems there will be that allow people to interact with the node economy.
What are your thoughts about the visual fidelity of what was shown with the Village Node Update?
The visuals are obviously amazing, there is not much to criticize maybe except the clouds in the sky looked a little out of place.
Aye, but really I’m looking at attrition vs player burn out, which there’s a potential for that.
DFUW made cities much more worth it if they were mega cities.
Village node update was good, liked that we saw how mayor setting goals drives the world economy.
What excites you about playing and interacting with the Node system?
- The idea of "get x item quest" instead being tied to the progress of a node.
- Players being able to grow and contribute to any node they want by fulfilling mayoral orders. Even if a guild is trying to own node, a random player should still be able to work hard at being the biggest contributor and get the most node bucks.
- The variations that will make each server unique.
- Even though people say guilds will own all the nodes/mayors, the best node for your character might not be one that your guild has control of.
- With so many options for the mayor to choose from it will be awesome to see the different conflicts about where to go for your citizenship, or where to travel for items, etc.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Village Node Update?
Concerns:
- I'd prefer if they released an Alpha 2 system with crap assets but all the core game mechanics so that we can iron out the wrinkles in the game mechanics, which is what you actually need real players to do. Most of this stuff we can't really comment on until we play and then give feedback.
- Would like to see some systems for discovering what other nodes have/want so that you can travel with purpose.The time it takes to travel to different nodes and find the one that has your "blunt items weapon creator" might end up being very difficult to build a character around. Maybe there is none on the server and you spend all your time looking for something that doesn't exist. Guilds and players will make dupes and plant them in every node and websites will post scraped data from every node unless the devs do something to provide this information in a better way.
- Don't want this system to completely replace good world quest storylines and NPC quests that make the world of Verra seem more than just a landscape and some cities run by mayoral fetch quests. It's fine if NPC "fetch" quests are replaced by the mayor ones, that is a great improvement to traditional questing. We should still have a storyline for the world, nodes and bosses though, so that we can understand the history, have goals for the present, and become invested in the future.
- Not sure how much of this is going to be level based. Will a smithy still be good at level 10, 20, 30, 40, 50? Where is the cutoff? Will it take 2 days to build a smithy but then it only builds level 10-20 gear which in 2 days you level out of anyways so that you only use the item made for marginal increase for 1 day? This system needs to be fine tuned by the devs to make sense and be worth the effort.
- Once we get to 50, how much of the game will be still gearing up at nodes? If people rush to 50 can they effectively bypass these systems? Is there any point for a level 50 to be a citizen of a level 3 or 4 node? Eventually the game will have alot of 50s kicking around. Monster exp/difficulty needs to be fine tuned with item availability and node progress.
What are your thoughts about the visual fidelity of what was shown with the Village Node Update?
It was fine except for the lighting. The darks were way to dark and the lights were too light. Honestly though, the concern over graphics and assets are going to delay the game way too much, and people will still complain that it doesn't look the way "they want". Forget about that garbage and just make a good game. I spent many years playing MUDs and it was all about the game play and player interaction. That is what keeps people playing. Minecraft is one of the most popular games of all time, keep that in mind.
Answer: "The mayor does have some power to give people warning but also pull the rug from underneath those people too"
The only people with the rug pulled from underneath them will be those not in the mayor's guild.
I'm sorry, what kind of an answer to a very valid problem is this? Your answer is "Well, yeah." There is absolutely no system in place to stop the mayor from telling his guild what will be required and for the members of that guild to receive all the "node currency". This is yet another stream to highlight how naive and neglectful you are with regard to the exploitability of these systems. The tax system will instantly go the harshest it can be, that's just how it goes in MMOs. You cannot rely on the morality of the player, especially an MMO player, with a system at their disposal they can abuse, to not do it for their gain - to the absolute maximum possible. I get the realism you're going for but I repeat, this is not real life: I can just log off and go have some fun somewhere where I'm not being milked by 19-hour-a-day players.
If you chose to cater towards established guilds who already have their LAN space pre-planned and work informed of a possible 1month vacation they'll need in the future, then please just say so so the more casual players than them (I.e. 90%) can move onto following something else.
The World looks as great as ever bar not having any defining theme: it just looks good but so do most of the other games these days and to this day, some that don't, are more fun than the top-of-the-top graphical masterpieces we get. The shields look 2D, and the armor is bland and boring - unless this is low-level armor which still, in 2023, is just so so basic.
People saying stuff like "but look at the wind and the grass" for the millionth time - who cares, honestly?
Gameplay is king.
Gear progression is king.
Power progression is king.
If you nail the feeling of those, the feeling of accomplishment that rewards the player with a noticeable power boost, you'll have a winning MMO. The only things of that nature so far are gated behind huge guilds that will monopolize control over systems like freeholds, nodes, and node currency.
So far, the combat looks like a particle effect mess, generally not very exciting if I'm honest. The spell effects look out of place, the particle effects around things like the blue rock being mined are way over the top and completely unnecessary, and the blue glitter going up in the air: seriously?
The sense of scale seems very good, and on-point in fact, so being in town feels like being in town which is fantastic. That's the positives.
If you're a guild I'm sure you found this update amazing. If you're not in one, this post is a reality check for you as it was for me.
I'm sorry you didn't understand what I was trying to convey. Let me explain. I'm "upset" that I won't get anywhere with some of the "major" systems in this game unless I'm in a top-end guild that requires me to send them my CV and uit my job. I'm "upset" that the systems are naive and based on the goodwill of players (good luck with that) wanting to include players from outside. Hope this helps.
Overall I feel confident about the Village Node Update. I enjoyed seeing a node on a topographically interesting surface. I was a bit disappointed in the showcase overall because I was expecting a bit more, but these expectations were my own so no fault to the team. I was hoping to see the effects of race on nodes, and was expecting to see a node changing up from a village node to a town or even (unlikely) a city. As well as a bit more of a breakdown on the specializations each node type offers.
What excites you about playing and interacting with the Node system?
I am most excited about the interaction of buy orders and rare gatherable. As some one who wants to be a (grand)master gatherable, seeing a posting across the land where a city needs a specific rare gatherable, the excitement/danger of bringing it all the way over there (and not dying) to provide a service (gatherable) that no one else was able to fulfil seems like a wonderful reason to play into specific specializations to make yourself even more renown.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Village Node Update?
I think the biggest concern that came to mind during the update was node currency. I know there was not a lot said about it so my concerns may be for not. But it sounds like you can gain node currency at one node, and then if your node is destroyed you get the refugee status. Once you become a citizen of this other node you have access to your node currency, if you are coming from a Level 6 Metropolis and your new node is only a level 3 will you have so much node currency you can buy everything out, or will your reputation at this new node be so low that all your node currency is useless because the only available items to you are not of importance to you.
What are your thoughts about the visual fidelity of what was shown with the Village Node Update?
As a pre-alpha update it looks great, I know the team will fix the obvious things like leaves glitching in and out of view because the wind is blowing them in and out of the detailed field of view range; the grass clipping through the capes. Overall I am happy with the visual direction the team is going with, I'm excited to see how the nodes change depending on the race of influence, and the biome of the node.
So a combat designer is focusing his attention on something that isn't the combat. I don't know if this is a good idea, just saying. Isn't a jack of all trades, normally is a master of none?
Steven said "the combat is not going to be as fast-paced as action MMOs". Brother, it doesn't need to be BDO-like, just don't make it very slow, floaty and static. Is this really the fantasy world you dream to live in?
Does any of you even watch anime?
I get that it is still alpha, but it worries me when the devs pat each other on the back and talk so proudly about it. it makes me question "is this the final direction you decided on, and will waste more resources on it?".
Even if the pacing was faster and fluid, the class designs & the skills are too tame and generic, nothing crazy or original. An example for "crazy" is like a non-combat (or not) skill for a mage to freeze a river and cross over it with allies; or slow down a ship by blocking its path, slow% based on ship size; or creates icy staircase or a path mid-air during cold weather by freezing air molecules. Sounds fun?
Perhaps Ranger can manipulate the wind, and by holding a wind skill, it allows him to fly until he runs out of stamina. Cooldown starts counting when it's over. What's the weakness? None. Just CC him and it's wasted.
Because you think of Ashes of Creation as a game, you limit your imagination by thinking about balance and risk-reward mechanics (as seen with Cleric) and forget that it's a fantasy world where anything can happen!
IMO, if the combat is bad, the game is bad. No matter how perfect the nodes system and everything else is.
Thank you for reading. Peace.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Village Node Update? - What are the team's thoughts on a mayor potentially creating a discord and inviting all of the citizens of their node via message of the day to it. Using sites like strawpoll to poll policies? There's a lot of outside applications that could be used to interact with systems, and imo, that's okay, but I wonder what the team has in mind regarding these.
Will the game have any sort of discord integration in it?
What do you mean by "non-exchangeable" currency?
Another option is for the guard(s) to follow you as a player for X minutes after hire in town, or when blowing a trumpet item with long cooldown. Their level/gear determined by Node infrastructure and building upgrades.
Follower guards could be tuned to do less PvE damage and not generate aggro if we don't want them unbalancing PvE. Corruption should also limit recruitment in some way, unless you are a member of an evil node (unsure if such a type is planned).
I disagree with this sentiment, as the purpose of the poll is specifically to get that feedback from Citizens. The two ways presented in the stream for Mayors to interact with Citizens for feedback was through a Citizen only chat, and through a Message of the Day (MotD) for the Node. The problem with this is that a MotD is not meant to receive feedback, it is to put a notice out and not receive information from players. A chat for Citizens only is great, however it would only capture input from players that are online at the same time as the Mayor. For example, if a Mayor is primarily online for the same 4 hour window when they play during a day, they will not interact with players that primarily play in the other 20 hour window.
A poll would be a much better way for Mayors to gain feedback from all Citizens, regardless of when they are online. It will also show other Citizens what their fellows think about certain policies or mandates, so if the majority of other Citizens at a Node are set on a different play style than what you want, you can make a more informed decision on where to give your Citizenship to.
One that you cannot use to trade with another player. Currency that only the reputation vendor accepts, and has no other use.
https://youtu.be/bJwLHPGPH5s?t=850
Later in the village I've not seen fat or ugly npcs. There should be such NPCs too.
Friendly players when they meet, in form of salute they jump in front of each-other. Very disappointed to see this tradition not being followed.
https://youtu.be/bJwLHPGPH5s?t=923
That NPC carrying a crate... he can see through the crate? Also the crate seems really light because the guy doesn't seem to put any real effort. Better provide wheelbarrows and carts to them.
https://youtu.be/bJwLHPGPH5s?t=1116
The same NPC turning 180° later. These NPCs should look like doing a meaningful job.
https://youtu.be/bJwLHPGPH5s?t=1348
I know is the very early stage and these will be improved later.
That street looked nice
https://youtu.be/bJwLHPGPH5s?t=1184
Road dust being blown by wind. Nice.
https://youtu.be/bJwLHPGPH5s?t=1417
But later I seen that blows through walls and might be too often.
That NPC should turn his head toward the player's character instead of staring forward. Also should move a bit, move his arms into different positions, scratch his head etc. The guard was doing that while walking...
https://youtu.be/bJwLHPGPH5s?t=1905
Street light should be turned on only during night. An NPC should do that.
I have not noticed any birds flying in the air. Birds should also land in trees. And now that I think about such npc to tree interaction, maybe you could add squirrels, monkeys and other creatures which can move on both land and climb trees too.
General direction regarding the environment seems ok.
Once I arrive into alpha 2 and look closer I might change my mind and request changes. Be prepared.
Regarding Mandates, Commissions and Policies I have no opinion right now.
I cannot yet feel enthusiasm to go and fulfill mayor triggered quests unless is part of my guild leadership. What if most players decide to go into the deep sea? Can a mayor on a coastal node create commissions and send players into the deep sea? Or going there and doing stuff, do I generate mandates?
I am sometime thinking that I would like to go into a node which has no mayors, or in places outside the zone influence of a node, if such places exist. And stay there. Call it a neutral place for players who do not want constantly feel the pressure to get involved into politics neither as mayors nor as their supporters. A place for players without citizenship but which can still offer game-play. The more I think about the node and caravan system, the more I feel like Steven's prisoner, forced to play as he wants.
The node currency is interesting. So now we have gold, node currency and hunting certificates?
I especially like the ideas for military node elections. I just wonder if it's possible to make some of those PvP events happen in the actual node, rather than in an instanced copy. Would be cool to see different factions running about, making their "political" moves in real-time, even if I'm not currently participating.
I am a little concerned about the insider trading thing with Buy Orders, where the mayor tells his guild/buddies before a lucrative, short-term Buy Order is created. But it's definitely something that's needs to be tested before I write it off. At worst, I assume it's just one more thing on the list of political nuances, rather than an exploitable broken mechanic. We'll see.
Visually I think the nodes look vastly improved. Love the little banners moving in the winds and the NPCs going about their day. Although I do hope those muddy roads can be upgraded, maybe with a node policy focused on infrastructure. My only nitpick is that it's hard to see things under an awning because the shadows are so dark. But maybe that's just my screen, and it can be easily solved with a gamma slider.
Overall, pretty happy with the update. Before watching, I was spoiled a little by a reddit thread that was rather critical of the lack of progress (not enough shown in-engine), so I was expecting disappointment. But after watching the VOD I think there just wasn't enough time to show everything. I do wish we had seen a couple more core features in action, like the mayoral commissions or the policy "cards" that were mentioned. As well as a few more node layouts/designs. Obviously there's not time for that in the "Steven slowly walks through it in-person" video. But some screenshots or a flyover in-engine would have been appreciated. (Or would still be appreciated if they end up on social media *wink*)
First of all, you should consider players like that and not force these very heavy systems on them too much and too often. (You can ofc use passive methods such as putting a massive reward system behind these and because the rewards will be so good people would be forced to participate in the end. I'm mentioning this particular example to really put a hard resonance on the word "force" for you, because this is, in reality, the only thing you need to understand to avoid the same disaster where many of your predecessors failed as well.) So let's sum up this history a bit, not really to compare, but to hopefully avoid the same results, so please take this only as a view of someone who essentially doesn't like these "mass goal" systems. I do realize I might like them when done 'correctly', but listen first.
The first that came into my mind when I saw your video (love hour-long gameplay btw) was the World of Warcraft "garrison", "invasions", "war efforts" and "island expeditions" systems, basically all combined together, plus a heavy load of layers of everything on top of all that.
Unfortunately, I can tell you right now, that none of these systems were truly appreciated within the player base. Not many, in fact, liked these systems in general, just participating as a necessity to evolve the story, or just for the weekly reward for HC and semi-hc players.
I'm not saying you are heading the same way, but you kind of are... from what I saw, I can tell this is like Dungeon's and Dragon's ruleset, which is the same as this very complex and very hard to understand at first glance. This really is not a good thing for a video game, especially for a game where this is just one part of the "big picture" and you should, in my opinion, definitely "soften" these systems by a ton. Nobody likes to learn that much new stuff when really doesn't want to.
secondly, you put a 'government' system on top of all these which essentially is not a bad thing, but why the f*k are you choosing to use a 'representative democracy' system? Isn't it enough clear already, that this ain't working in reality anymore as well? Why not a direct democracy? Why not let everyone (who wants) decide which way the node will be evolving? This is a huge mistake in my opinion and there will be regrets.
thirdly, the currency system on top of another currency system on top of another... meh, this ain't good guys, I mean I'm sure there won't be any microtransactions to connect the 'dots' between all these currency systems that will make this game pay to win in the end, but if this ain't your intentions, FFS please simplify this. The less is more, nobody will be mad to pay for stuff in just simple golds trust me, we don't really need or want "special node purple gold" or anything like that.
fourthly, taxes? Seriously you enjoy paying your taxes that much so you put them inside your fantasy world as well? I mean no offense, but from all you can inspire yourself from our reality, this is it? really? Is that what we really need in the game... or in general after all?
I do appreciate all the work behind this, as a programmer myself I really do, but this ain't the right way in my opinion, I know this might sound harsh, but it's from my gamer heart, I give you feedback every time you ask for it, but this time I'd seriously consider scratching this elected government idea completely, same as the taxes idea. Nobody really likes it, nobody needs it. I'd give 'power to the people', make just a few currencies, divided for only necessary reasons, but most should be available for just the simplest one.
If this is not an option anymore, and you have totally decided to go with all this, at least consider implementing some "revolt" systems as well...
this is sadly the first of my feedback that is mostly negative, but don't take it wrong. I mean no harm, I wish you success, I just don't think this will work as you intend to. You can try to prove me wrong, but we all live on this very Earth together, and we all know that governments mean no good to the people. They never do and they never will and they are not even needed.
Hopefully, you got the message. Best of luck to you guys.
You didn't understand the video at all, nor what aoc wants to be. That's not feedback, that's just wrong. I guess wow suits you better
Is this a criticism of my criticism of the game? Dude, are you serious now? This ain't a debate. This is in fact just a feedback that I'm willingly giving them for free without expecting anything back.
I'm not trying to imply what this project is trying to be, I'm not even trying to compare it to another. This is just what I feel from what I see, you can disagree, but how dare you judge me like this? Shame on you.
It's going a long way when the Devs describe the mechanics whilst showing how it looks ingame.
The:
UI
Material icons, looks and size in the crafting interface, distinct and tasty
Raw materials in the world
The "buy" sound feedback and responsiveness timeframe when you right click the items in the vendor
The purple colour hue of the bloodsword in the crafting interface
The environment the buildings the npcs
Everything is great
This is the Dev Update everyone was waiting for. We have arrived.
- Can you place buildings freely (on given spots) to construct a specific crafting district, or is there a predetermined order and you have to plan carefully?
What excites you about playing and interacting with the Node system?
Participating players get a reward when they build a house( node currency)
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Village Node Update?
why did he mention to build 3 smithy to capitalise of it -does a player prevent others from using this building and can it be deliberately blocked?
- can you place multiple buildings at a time if you have enough resources? Because otherwise when those citizens don't want a particular building it forces them to because of those 2 Million years
- what can they buy from this node currency and is it tied to a specific node or a global currency? maybe you can pay your tax with it from your freehold
- how often can you change your freehold tax? is there a timer to prevent someone to lure with low tax and set them to max limit a day later?
- Can a mayor demolish houses that have been built and have materials returned to the guild treasury?
- Does a mayor have full access to the city treasury and are there internal histories of the guild treasury that all members can see?
- can a mayor offer goods via an node NPC for trade?
What are your thoughts about the visual fidelity of what was shown with the Village Node Update?
Can you change a building's design later, or is it dependent on the mayor's race? did you assign a specific theme to a specific node?
i know that it was probably due to steven having a dev debug enviroment but i hope that mayors are blocked from contributing the voluntary non buy order citizen portion of a buildings material cost as that would defeat the purpose of being able to stop a mayor building what he wants.
if it does allow a mayor to contribute and not due to a dev client than mayors can do what they want as long as they got the resources. just collect it themselves / get fed resources and then insta build it.
Suggestion: it wasnt in the video so assuming its not a feature but i feel like once the mayor selects a building and hits build it should initiate a citizen vote for 24 hours and after 24 hours the highest % wins if it hasnt hit majority or end vote short if a majority vote of 51% is reached and if it passes then the building can have the resources donated to it and be completed. this would make less corrupt mayors and then also they would be paying attention to their citizens more.
if it hasnt changed and its the same then the Race that contributed the highest percentage to the node's advancement will alter the racial appearance of its buildings, NPCs, and props. <- according to the wiki
Overall, the format of the stream was excellent. The node system requires the extra time to steep - so props on your approach to lay groundwork with the PowerPoint first then move into showing the concepts in a tangible form. One last general thought, I don’t think it’s necessary to overly polish the presentations for us. I like the back and forth clarifying assumptions and understanding of the node vernacular (policies v. mandates v. commissions) as it shows this is still a very much organic system within Intrepid.
* How do you feel about the Village Node Update so far?
It’s complex, which is good. It needs to be. I can sense the blend between Settlers of Catan, Civilization, and good city builders here. Clearly there’s enough branching complexity to scale for metro to metro interaction.
My only suggestion would be to scale the UX to manage the node with the node’s growth. The UI and options need to grow and guide not overwhelm. I’d also plan to have contextual tips, monitoring, and alerts configurable by the mayor to help with resource management and quick decision making. I noted in one of the forums that being a mayor, particularly for larger nodes, is going to be an unpaid director level role. Might not be a bad idea to provide mayors with some sort of optional external alert system during their time in office, along with some type of proxy/delegate authority.
* What excites you about playing and interacting with the Node system?
I have two minds on this. First, as an explorer I didn’t plan on joining a node for some time. This still might be the case, but the two changes that may shift my thinking is the addition of inns to meet the housing requirement and multi-node citizenship.
Once I choose a node, I’m glad that there’s a meaningful system to convert gathered resources into a node currency that has relative value within settled nodes beyond just x amount of gold.
The construction of the smithy was cool. I was hoping to see a tangible example of a node moving from one level to another. Seems like something that could be time-lapsed to show 1) the growth of the village itself, and 2) the impact of the node’s growth on the ZOI. I’m just guessing it will be in a later show case or we’ll see it first hand in A2
* Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Village Node Update?
I mentioned scaling the UX above, I think that’s going to be important to successfully manage a node.
You (Intrepid) are already thinking through how a good and bad faith actor can operate a node - and I’m glad to hear that. Being the linchpin system of Ashes, I would find a few ways to break each new feature added. This is something I’m looking forward to pressure testing in A2.
* What are your thoughts about the visual fidelity of what was shown with the Village Node Update?
There are a lot of notes from other folks about lighting… Honestly, I know nothing has been optimized or polished yet, so I sort of ignored that level of detail.
I do want to give a high five to the architectural design team. The peaked roofs of the Kaelar buildings create a great effect of an urban space when those buildings are next to each other. The main roads and centers feel like a protected settled space instead of just a jumbled bunch of buildings. There’s a sense that the node is ‘working’ with the NPC and object density. This had some beginning vibes of RDR2, and I hope that’s a direction the design team continues to move toward.
All in all, solid presentation. It left me pleased with what was shown, and wanting to see more. Well done.
It was a great presentation, with great content showing tremendous promise, and there can only be improvement towards something great! Well done.