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primitive/ basic (NON MODERN) guns should be one of the first expansion additions

RookkRookk Member, Alpha Two
For starters just so there is NO confusion, what i mean by 'first expansion additions' is that after launch, there will obviously be expansions that add new stuff and i bet we will see crossbows return as well in a similar style AFTER launch to avoid scope creep.

Now as for the idea, personally ik people have this really weird hate for ANY firearms in fantasy even tho irl, blackpowder has existed for A LONG time and while guns didnt get made until a while after blackpowder, partially thats cuase there wasnt a need for them and what they were capable of at THE VERY beginning wasnt worth the cost to many people. Now as for the specifics around how and why i feel it makes A LOT more sense to see basic firearms in fantasy is cause in a world where you can create enchantments to create fire by using some invisible energy much akin to air like 'mana' or some other magic source AND even perhaps do things like have another enchantment create solid air or ice and than imbue an enchantment that makes it a lot stronger and prevents melting to than make it possible to fire by triggering the fire rune and firing off the ice bullet really just makes it so honestly, there is no reason why a world where such a thing is possible, that WOULDNT happen ESPECIALLY when there is tons of monsters out there that wanna kill you and your whole family but you dont have the time, money, or maybe even ability flat out to learn to wield a sword that with the power of a true swordmaster behind it and some poweful enchantments on it could probably outclass ANY gun or bow made of the hair and bones of a dragon that a truly strong archer could wield in such a manner where they could blow away another dragons head with a single enchanted arrow. honestly i could imagine guns being the 'STRONG as a base but unless you devote a lot of time, money, and have the knowhow yourself, they will never be worth anything in the face of the truly strong' type weapon with crossbows being the inbetween with bolts still needing to be made but because of that, they can be made out of VERY strong matierials AND have more than what are basically enchantment shavings to boost their strength as opposed to those ice bullets i mentioned.

Basically you could have a flintlock style pistol that takes some time to charge between shots but is as a base pretty good and easy to use with perhaps people who could go down a skill line that would be added along side these firearms which would be 'artificing' and take up your artisan role could use more specific guns aside from the ones ANYONE can use like those basic flintlocks which say a swashbuckling pirate fighter who spends their time on the sea could use a sword in one hand for when close range combat breaks out and have the pistol for more medium range engagements without havning to devote anything to make it good. Honestly it could be fun being an artificer which could be a branching path from enchantment so you need to be an enchanter to than specialize further and become and artificer or maybe even be BOTH a enchanter and blacksmith which upon reaching high enough levels in them (proly not max) you get access to spend the rest of your levels as a artificer so you would be a ok enchanter and blacksmith but your real specialty would be guns, bombs, automatons perhaps powered by magic like golems but made from special alloys and enchantments that allow them to be fully automanous companions.
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Comments

  • TyranthraxusTyranthraxus Member, Alpha Two
    Their stated goal is to avoid gun-powder/black-powder weapons, entirely.

    There was a comment in a livestream that alluded that we *might* see cannons on naval armaments - but it would otherwise be heavy/great crossbows and ballistae. Potion launchers have also been speculated upon, but not confirmed.



  • i dunno why? they don't want shapeshifting abilities too.

    btw the first primitive weapon missing is fist weapon or bare fist weapon skill tree (i miss a brawler class and barbarian).
    sorry for my bad english, my native langage is french.
    AoC class wish: https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/comment/422108#Comment_422108
  • NerrorNerror Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited September 2023
    While settings with both guns and magic are valid and completely fine, my personal preference for high fantasy games like Ashes is to not mix them. I actually even hope the ship weapons aren't too cannon-like.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Expect portable potion-launchers before guns.
  • CROW3CROW3 Member, Alpha Two
    No guns.
    AoC+Dwarf+750v3.png
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    I'd be hyped for a portal potion launcher weapon (dual pistols). I'd main ranger 100%
  • VeeshanVeeshan Member, Alpha Two
    Freemeta wrote: »
    i dunno why? they don't want shapeshifting abilities too.

    btw the first primitive weapon missing is fist weapon or bare fist weapon skill tree (i miss a brawler class and barbarian).

    steven favourite setting is high fantasy and want to keep more non fantasy thing like guns out of it. you might see some other weird type of weapon that might function like guns by use f magic or somthing but u probaly wont see gun powerder type stuff outside of cannons on ships
  • RookkRookk Member, Alpha Two
    Freemeta wrote: »
    i dunno why? they don't want shapeshifting abilities too.

    btw the first primitive weapon missing is fist weapon or bare fist weapon skill tree (i miss a brawler class and barbarian).

    hell tbf on the shapeshifting one, i also asked about that but it sounded like when an acutal dev responded that the issue there was a technical one.
  • RookkRookk Member, Alpha Two
    Their stated goal is to avoid gun-powder/black-powder weapons, entirely.

    There was a comment in a livestream that alluded that we *might* see cannons on naval armaments - but it would otherwise be heavy/great crossbows and ballistae. Potion launchers have also been speculated upon, but not confirmed.




    ik but i dont get why. this is just another attempt to get the devs to understand why limiting roleplaying like this only hurts immersion and just doesnt make sense. again tho i hope i made it clear at bare minimum, i didnt say they should add this BEFORE launch but only after with crossbows i bet are a damn near shoe in to get added in some expansion AFTER launch as well.
  • RookkRookk Member, Alpha Two
    Nerror wrote: »
    While settings with both guns and magic are valid and completely fine, my personal preference for high fantasy games like Ashes is to not mix them. I actually even hope the ship weapons aren't too cannon-like.

    i have been told before that many people see it as a sorta tolkien style high fantasy is best, type thing and ultimately, i guess it would be best to call this post me simply stating my opinion so the devs can see it and think about it AND it gives others who share my opinion a platform to also voice their thoughts so we can all see where everyone stands and the devs can get feedback that helps in making the ultimate decision.
  • RookkRookk Member, Alpha Two
    Dygz wrote: »
    Expect portable potion-launchers before guns.

    fair and that actually is also one of the toons imma make with i know imma have a pure icey boi and probably a death knight type tank as well with an artificer who uses potions and poisons to do their dirty work is another one.
  • RookkRookk Member, Alpha Two
    CROW3 wrote: »
    No guns.

    but percy from vox machina tho.....
  • RookkRookk Member, Alpha Two
    Veeshan wrote: »
    Freemeta wrote: »
    i dunno why? they don't want shapeshifting abilities too.

    btw the first primitive weapon missing is fist weapon or bare fist weapon skill tree (i miss a brawler class and barbarian).

    steven favourite setting is high fantasy and want to keep more non fantasy thing like guns out of it. you might see some other weird type of weapon that might function like guns by use f magic or somthing but u probaly wont see gun powerder type stuff outside of cannons on ships

    did you read my original post? the whole idea i offered up was a weapon that uses ambient magic and runes to create bullets of ice that get enchanted to be durable and not melt with secondary enchantments that enchant the ice bullet just after it forms by touching them before than when ya pull the trigger, a fire rune behind the bullet ignites and fires the ice bullet. hell in a world with magic and enchantments, honestly i agree... BLACK POWDER guns wouldnt be viable or used because the cost of resources to use them would be too high but if the enchantments exist easy enough which a world teaming with magic like verra were to be real, a magic firearm like this could be possible after some wizard or proly just some farmer looking to defend their home makes a normal basic flintlock pistol before a wizard would see it and make the magic improvements making it a weapon used worldwide not necessarily by the truly powerful as of course, its not like being super strong physical makes the bullet go faster and the enchantments could be said to not be too strong for a reason, that being you dont wanna blow the gun up cause its already proly near the enchantment cap meaning it cant have the barrel reinforced to take more firepower strain anyways meaning magical strength is out the window too. basically unless you had the specific enchanting talent to make masterpieces hence my suggestion of an artificer subclass that comes from having say half your artisan levels in blacksmith and the other half in enchanter limiting those roles as well as making it so you can really only work on automatons, guns, and basically steampunk stuff rather than traditional stuff so as to allow for even more fun progression and ways of ensuring the weapon type really wouldnt be op nor likely even seen often aside from maybe with fighters and rouges who want something that they can use quickly to get off a mid range shot from a weapon they dont need to invest in to hit a at least decceeeeeennnt base level.
  • Loading wrote: »
    Freemeta wrote: »
    i dunno why? they don't want shapeshifting abilities too.

    btw the first primitive weapon missing is fist weapon or bare fist weapon skill tree (i miss a brawler class and barbarian).

    hell tbf on the shapeshifting one, i also asked about that but it sounded like when an acutal dev responded that the issue there was a technical one.

    hum it does not look good for the game. it's a common abilitie in many games and they developped Monster Coin so it's weird.
    sorry for my bad english, my native langage is french.
    AoC class wish: https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/comment/422108#Comment_422108
  • CawwCaww Member, Alpha Two
    no guns/black powder or steam punk please....
  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    They scrapped potion launcher and crossbow.

    Steven doesn’t want black powder.
  • SpifSpif Member, Alpha Two
    The problem with black powder (or a magically based equivalent) existing for guns is that it then exists for explosives barrels and everything else.

    Dual wielding hand crossbows with some John Wu animations may have a chance. We'll see
  • DemostratheDemostrathe Member, Alpha Two
    Freemeta wrote: »
    i dunno why? they don't want shapeshifting abilities too.

    btw the first primitive weapon missing is fist weapon or bare fist weapon skill tree (i miss a brawler class and barbarian).

    facts its such a missed opprotunity to not have a Martial Artist class
    Referral Code : 8GTVW547SYDTHE6Nashesofcreation.com/r/8GTVW547SYDTHE6N
  • daveywaveydaveywavey Member, Alpha Two
    No thanks. No firearms, please.
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/


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  • HeetCrusherHeetCrusher Member, Alpha Two
    Ah hell no. This ain't New World. You want to play that go play it. This is MMOARPGX guns are not in DnD typical fantasy games.
  • RookkRookk Member, Alpha Two
    Freemeta wrote: »
    Loading wrote: »
    Freemeta wrote: »
    i dunno why? they don't want shapeshifting abilities too.

    btw the first primitive weapon missing is fist weapon or bare fist weapon skill tree (i miss a brawler class and barbarian).

    hell tbf on the shapeshifting one, i also asked about that but it sounded like when an acutal dev responded that the issue there was a technical one.

    hum it does not look good for the game. it's a common abilitie in many games and they developped Monster Coin so it's weird.

    well the issue from the sound of it moreso sounded like if i had to guess, it wasnt orignally in their plans and RIGHT NOW it would be too hard to add without changing things and also my suggestion was kinda more like demiurge from the show overlord if you know him where you shapeshift parts of your body like giving yourself massive sharp claws that take the place of your weapon or wings that allow for in this case, quick dashes or perhaps that hover ability i remember i think talk about possibly being a thing where wings could give ya the same effect or a tail that allows you to weave in some powerful tail swipe attacks and etc. basically a lot of things flat out cant and wont be done rn because they dont wanna risk scope creep during the pre release phase. thats why most of my suggestions i make, i preface by saying they should only be added in expansions after release if they aint being worked on rn.
  • RookkRookk Member, Alpha Two
    Caww wrote: »
    no guns/black powder or steam punk please....

    dude read the god damn post please... its annoying to repeat that i myself pointed out the even more fun and interseting idea of magic guns that create ice bullets and use fire runes to fire. hell did you miss the whole thing about the idea of a artificer class or at least artisan skill line you could get through specific allocations of levels?
  • RookkRookk Member, Alpha Two
    Solvryn wrote: »
    They scrapped potion launcher and crossbow.

    Steven doesn’t want black powder.

    ffs im not repeating it AGAIN... beyond that they dropped potion launchers and crossbows so as to avoid scope creep and i damn near guarantee with how EVERYONE loved the idea of crossbows (especially dwarfy bois) they will return in some expansion after the games full launcher and possibly even the potion launchers too since we dont know if i remember right if those ones got cut cause we didnt get a answer as to if they would even be back after the pre alpha anyways.
  • RookkRookk Member, Alpha Two
    daveywavey wrote: »
    No thanks. No firearms, please.
    Solvryn wrote: »
    They scrapped potion launcher and crossbow.

    Steven doesn’t want black powder.
    Caww wrote: »
    no guns/black powder or steam punk please....

    beyond that from you 3.... i want an actual response please. if your gonna say "no..." and leave it at that, ill take it you have no real grounds for why it shouldnt be added aside from personally disliking the idea even tho what would they hurt in terms of the even being in the game? crossbows will likely be back after launch and steven himself was cool with them with they were from what i could tell only cut to save development time cause the concept they had was close enough to bows rn that leaving crossbows in was too much scope creep for not enough CORE gameplay features on launch. basically give an actual retort rather than the most childish 'nu uh!' i have ever heard...
  • RookkRookk Member, Alpha Two
    Spif wrote: »
    The problem with black powder (or a magically based equivalent) existing for guns is that it then exists for explosives barrels and everything else.

    Dual wielding hand crossbows with some John Wu animations may have a chance. We'll see

    dude games like eso have explosive barrels and no guns... they 2 dont mean the other will exist in the game and even than whats the issue with having an explosive barrel or 2? hell fucking BG3 had them and they were filled with oil so by your logic, oil shouldnt exist in fantasy games cause than explosive barrels exist... like wtf is your point?
  • RookkRookk Member, Alpha Two
    Ah hell no. This ain't New World. You want to play that go play it. This is MMOARPGX guns are not in DnD typical fantasy games.

    fucking percy from the legend of vox machina... like i bet you legit think im talking about guys running around with fucking m16s or some shit when percy is the sort of thing im talking about ON THE EXTREME END with im saying flintlock pistols cause black powder goes back CENTERIES irl and while in our world it took several centuries past black powders development to make guns, it was cause of black powders difficulty to make as well as guns difficulty to make paired with a lack of motivation to need weapons like guns for common soldiers until the spaniards came around with matchlocks that were actually suprisingly viable weapons that they sold world wide leading to suddenly EVERYONE needing guns to compete. in a world with magic and monsters and magic like i pointed out in my concept that could DRASTICALLY make it easier to create and use firearms, there is no way in hell they wouldnt exist meaning lacking them makes shit less immersive and takes away fun rp posibilities cause you dont like the idea that you'll see a dude running around using a flintlock pistol even tho you will proly never be focused on the dude enough to see anything more than his projectiles which would likely look just as obvious as the archers fucking tracer arrows cause intrepid does go way to overboard on VFX for EVERYTHING... even arrows that shouldnt have obvious trail lines as tho they were on fire or had lightbulbs attached to them or some shit
  • RookkRookk Member, Alpha Two
    Freemeta wrote: »
    i dunno why? they don't want shapeshifting abilities too.

    btw the first primitive weapon missing is fist weapon or bare fist weapon skill tree (i miss a brawler class and barbarian).

    facts its such a missed opprotunity to not have a Martial Artist class

    thats another thing in the same boat as firearms... steven doesnt like the concept of monks even tho A LOT of other people do and so an unarmed weapon tree isnt in the cards... like i love what i have seen from the game but the high fantasy LOTR style isnt what most people are used to or like at this point and considering the fact that both monks and fire arms existed in WoW in its hayday, it just shows that hes limiting peoples rp because HE wouldnt ever use them and while i always support at least rn that extra things like guns or unarmed skill lines shouldnt be worked on RIGHT NOW cause they dont have anything for them right now already made, i do still stand by they should be added in expansions after the fact to give us more ways to play and truly experice verra as our own characters. beyond that people who complain about guys like me wanting a simple flintlock pistol but not about the dudes running around naked or in full bright pink armor or with Soulsborne style 'fashion' just shows people dont ACTUALLY care about the atmosphere of the the fantasy world being ruined by unrealistic things but just jump on the band wagon that 'ThAtS nOt FaNtSy EnOuGh!!!' also ignoring the fact that in rpgs, the more options the better. you literally cant go wrong by just adding choices to how people can play so long as you keep it balanced.
  • daveywaveydaveywavey Member, Alpha Two
    Loading wrote: »
    daveywavey wrote: »
    No thanks. No firearms, please.
    Solvryn wrote: »
    They scrapped potion launcher and crossbow.

    Steven doesn’t want black powder.
    Caww wrote: »
    no guns/black powder or steam punk please....

    beyond that from you 3.... i want an actual response please. if your gonna say "no..." and leave it at that, ill take it you have no real grounds for why it shouldnt be added aside from personally disliking the idea even tho what would they hurt in terms of the even being in the game? crossbows will likely be back after launch and steven himself was cool with them with they were from what i could tell only cut to save development time cause the concept they had was close enough to bows rn that leaving crossbows in was too much scope creep for not enough CORE gameplay features on launch. basically give an actual retort rather than the most childish 'nu uh!' i have ever heard...

    All you have is an "I want them", so all I'm giving you is an "I don't want them".

    And try re-reading your own posts before accusing people of being childish, cos you're in your glass house and you're throwing stones...
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/


    giphy-downsized-large.gif?cid=b603632fp2svffcmdi83yynpfpexo413mpb1qzxnh3cei0nx&ep=v1_gifs_gifId&rid=giphy-downsized-large.gif&ct=s
  • RookkRookk Member, Alpha Two
    daveywavey wrote: »
    Loading wrote: »
    daveywavey wrote: »
    No thanks. No firearms, please.
    Solvryn wrote: »
    They scrapped potion launcher and crossbow.

    Steven doesn’t want black powder.
    Caww wrote: »
    no guns/black powder or steam punk please....

    beyond that from you 3.... i want an actual response please. if your gonna say "no..." and leave it at that, ill take it you have no real grounds for why it shouldnt be added aside from personally disliking the idea even tho what would they hurt in terms of the even being in the game? crossbows will likely be back after launch and steven himself was cool with them with they were from what i could tell only cut to save development time cause the concept they had was close enough to bows rn that leaving crossbows in was too much scope creep for not enough CORE gameplay features on launch. basically give an actual retort rather than the most childish 'nu uh!' i have ever heard...

    All you have is an "I want them", so all I'm giving you is an "I don't want them".

    And try re-reading your own posts before accusing people of being childish, cos you're in your glass house and you're throwing stones...

    dude i have 'i want them' but also 'they dont hurt you in any way if they are added' 'they have good lore reason to exist' 'they could exist in a fun and interesting way that explains their limitations and adds a whole different type of class style' 'and your reason IS just that you dont want them'
  • RookkRookk Member, Alpha Two
    daveywavey wrote: »
    Loading wrote: »
    daveywavey wrote: »
    No thanks. No firearms, please.
    Solvryn wrote: »
    They scrapped potion launcher and crossbow.

    Steven doesn’t want black powder.
    Caww wrote: »
    no guns/black powder or steam punk please....

    beyond that from you 3.... i want an actual response please. if your gonna say "no..." and leave it at that, ill take it you have no real grounds for why it shouldnt be added aside from personally disliking the idea even tho what would they hurt in terms of the even being in the game? crossbows will likely be back after launch and steven himself was cool with them with they were from what i could tell only cut to save development time cause the concept they had was close enough to bows rn that leaving crossbows in was too much scope creep for not enough CORE gameplay features on launch. basically give an actual retort rather than the most childish 'nu uh!' i have ever heard...

    All you have is an "I want them", so all I'm giving you is an "I don't want them".

    And try re-reading your own posts before accusing people of being childish, cos you're in your glass house and you're throwing stones...

    read the fucking posts before hand and demonstrate you actually understand them before speaking my guy....
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